Born Trans/Gay

Me and my girlfriend are having an argument about people being born gay or trans.
How do I convince her that they aren't?

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discord.gg/gsMmp
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2906147/
pdf-archive.com/2016/01/24/waite-joyner/waite-joyner.pdf
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2387250/
journals.lww.com/aidsonline/Fulltext/2004/06180/Primary_HIV_infection_as_source_of_HIV.10.aspx
pdf-archive.com/2016/01/24/comparative-demographic-and-sexual-profile/comparative-demographic-and-sexual-profile.pdf
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There are documented cases of identical twins being born with one turning out straight and one turning out homosexual. If it was purely genetic this would be impossible.

Technically they are, it is determined in the womb.

>my girlfriend

tell me more

Trannies are born that way because it is a mental illness, no different than depression or schizophrenia.
I am completely convinced homosexuality is a fetish especially in the case of bisexuals

>t. bifag pls kill me

Gayness is not due to genetics but the hormones the baby is exposed in the womb.

People are rarely born with depression though.

I was born a tranny

Johns Hopkins did a study on this an found no scientific evidence to back up the claim that one can be born gay

Google it

Fags are all sick

Depression is genetic most of the time, that's why people who have better lives than most (kurt cobain, robin williams etc.) still kill themselves

tons of gays don't want to be gay and seriously would prefer be straight

but no therapy or willpower can change their sexuality

sounds genetic to me desu

came here to say this

its just a mental disorder, it can develop later in life or it can be present right out of the uterus.

that wasn't a peer-reviewed study. that was one old doc with an agenda.

Put your cock next to a male baby. If he nibbles on it, he's gay.

bump

Fame means very little in terms of happiness or quality of life. Genetic factors like methylation issues exist, but saying that depression is genetic most of the time is a too bold claim. Not even all modern tribes living more or less the way humans evolved to live have a word for depression or suicide in their language, because its so far fetched concept for them.

I'd argue excessive glorification iof ndividualism is one of the biggest reason for prevalency of depression in the west.

People might be born w/ gender dysphoria, IDK. Even if they are, we should try to make delusion conform to reality, as opposed to reality conform to delusion.

>Excessive glorification of individualism biggest reason for depression

If they can't handle their own problems and would rather wallow in their shit, they should kill themselves.

Why would someone choose to be gay in a world where for awhile it was not welcome to people who were gay?

You have a point, finnbro, but I think individualism isn't really the root of depression. If anything being forced to be a part of the amalgamous collective sounds way worse then being self-sufficient with your own goals and life dreams. Also guess who has depression as a result of a methylation issue?
This. As someone with depression, before treatment suicide seemed like an escape, then I'd be happier killing myself, but should I? No.
Conforming to tranny delusions barely even helps anyway, like 40% of post-op trannies kill themselves or some shit like that, and I doubt our cancer society is that bad to them.

do we rly need to know?
noturbiz unless u wanabreed with someone

I'm not sure you get what I'm trying to say. It's really difficult for a human to maintain mental wellbeing when he doesn't feel like he belongs to any tribe or group. Individualism is the problem in itself.

It really has to be genetic, else liberals have to explain why gay conversion therapy doesn't work.

Shut up, nordish trash. Being gay is entirely a choice. I know several gay people that believe so. I personally don't care if you are gay, but you have to be able to accept criticism.

Faggot.

Good luck I guess lol.

I remember when I was a little kid it was hell finding out I had feelings for guys. I avoided it for years and fucked girls until I realized this wasn't going away.

Nobody wants to be gay, man. It just happens.

If it's a choice, then go ahead and give it a shot and see how you like it lol.

Turn gay and start sucking dicks

Lets face it, what kind of fucked up dude are you if you choose to get fucked in the ass and like it? I'm going with somekind of gene-something that makes them gay.

Gay conversion therepy causes the individual to associate their desire with a negative outcome.

I think by slowly moving the stimuli toward hetrosexual the results would be more positive.

They aren't. At least all the gays and lesbians i know, turned in puberty. They told me that one day they started feeling different, like feeling homo. They couldn't believe it, they denied it, they thought "this can't be happening". And ended accepting what they turned into.

Would the same approach work if you wanted to turn somebody gay?

You dont, you ask her for evidence that they are.

>depressed people don't want to be depressed
>schizos don't want to be schizos
mental illness is a mental illness

and yes, before turning, they dated people and were straight boyfriends/girlfriends. But it's not like "they chose to be gay/lesbians", they just turned out to be homo, and ended accepting what they were.

I accept that some people believe it's a choice or some kind of mental problem, but I just don't see it that way. I have a job, I pay my bills, I have good work and personal relationships, I'm monogamous, etc.

I tried a long time when I was younger not to be gay and it just doesn't work that way, no more than it would work if you tried to choose to be gay.

>Gay conversion therepy causes the individual to associate their desire with a negative outcome.

So what? The question was whether or not it works.

Presumably it works if sexuality is socially constructed, but of course that would be very uncomfortable for liberals.

> If anything being forced to be a part of the amalgamous collective sounds way worse then being self-sufficient with your own goals and life dreams.

Although I agree, that seems like taking the argument to the opposite extreme. Usually one can still function as a semi-autonomous individual while playing a role in the collective. This was probably the case even in hunter-gatherer tribes, since they were left with plenty of leisure time each day.

I believe you confuse gay with faggotry. Being a faggot is a choice, while gayness begins in womb or at last early childhood. If what you were saying was true, it should be common for MGTOW to turn gay instead.

good point

actually there are cases, at least here, where they took therapy to be straight, and they turned straight,

>How do I convince her that they aren't?
What an odd belief, did you choose to be heterosexual ?

Join the OFFICIAL /polgb/ Discord:

discord.gg/gsMmp

Since there are heterosexual men who are so deep in porn addiction that they've begun masturbating to gay or tranny porn while still wanting to fuck women in the real life, I'd say it won't work either way.

Ask her if she believes in a biological gay gene.

If she says yes, then this implies people are born gay.

If she says no, then this implies people learn to be gay.


I bet you if she believes people are born gay, she doesnt believe in a biological gay gene which decides on people being born gay(as counter intuitive as this sounds)
I bet you she answers "no"

people people can be born with mental disorders

...

This.

kaiokek

...

You fail to take into account a scenario where something goes wrong in the womb.

No you are not born gay, you are not even born straight, it is built over time through experiences. Any guy over 18 that doesn't like having sex with females over the age of 18 has a mental disorder by design. You're designed by your creator, thats what Jesus meant :
>don't be a fag guy

>same womb
>same time
>same hormones

...

The bulk of my argument is that sexuality is plastic and we learn what to find attractive though association.
So yes, I imagine you could turn somebody gay if you caused them to strongy associate the same sex with lust.

>What is puberty?
>What is moving the goal posts?

>nordish

Opinion discarded, you dumb burger.

If behavior as complex as sexuality can be explained by a single gene, ask if criminality can be associated with a gene. Suddenly it becomes a complex issue with multiple conditions and subjective opinions.

>le only peer reviewed science is legitimate
If it doesn't fit the current narrative it won't get peer reviewed

Ask her how the gay gene was passed on

>rainbow-flag-std_2.jpg
>std
Fitting.

Also leave her
It doesn't matter if you disagree on almost all the small things

But you should agree on all the big things

SEX
RELIGION
POLITICS

Twins don't necessarily get equal share of hormones and nutrients despite being in the womb at the same time.

I don't understand what you're trying to say

Gay: The main two talking points are that a gay gene (or even an epigenetic etiology) hasn't been discovered and that identical twin-studies tend to show a very low heritability rate for sexual orientation.

Trans: Likely born depressed and with other mental disorders. The DSM-V states that the main cause of it is depression, so the question is why aren't we treating the depression and instead treating the body parts? Also look at that John Hopkins study looking at suicide rates of the trans community compared with the general population and the rates of suicide among trans people before and after transitional surgery (it's the same).

>if it isnt present at birth it must be a choice
nice false dichotomy

She retracted the statement when I told her the gene would be washed out by the majority straight population.

Good, hormone therapy can finally be put to good use.

I know of two trans people. Both are delusional and show clear mental illness.

They're attention seeking faggots who're on a never ending pursuit of something unachievable.

We are both Christian, mostly traditional, and she had little exposire to anything other than mainstream progressivism just a few months ago.

She sounds worth it to me, no?

If people were born trans then there would be such a thing as a trans baby. Think about that, a newly born child without any life experience without any clue of the world and without any possible sense of self-identity is trans. Bull shit.

Quick run down on your potential options then.

if youre born gay or trans, then obviously a fetus is a human being, and abortion is murder.

the simplest shit, women dont seem to get

lol define mentally ill, kike.

ive been called a girly boy since kidnergarden. choose one: i get HRT or noone call call a man a woman and vice versa.

You aren't born round and die square.

You do know that humans & animals are born hard wired with certain behaviours right ? like a bird doesn't go to school & learn how to make nest.

How exactly are those related?

ask your girlfriends son

change the subject immediately using those deft male redirection skills God gave you

you will never convince a woman of the opposite position to what most people/the media are saying

It's a dumb arguement to make. Liberals think born this way = same thing as being a nigger = civil rights.

Change the argument completely. Regardless of whether they were born that way or it developed later, homosexual behavior is anti-social and immoral and shouldn't be excepted by society. It's not the same as being a nigger at all because niggers can't choose to stop being niggers, but fags and stop being faggots and be celibate.

For the same reason, someone would kill an innocent person when it's not welcome by the rest of the world.

there are scientific claims (disputed as others in the thread have described) that people are born gay. homosexuality is a sexual preference, and the actions that gays take in pursuit of their preference are subject to the same types of moral judgments that one can offer for any action. but those actions are *theoretically physically possible*. no philosophical rewriting of nature is required to accept the claim that they can complete these actions.

conflating homosexuality with "transsexuality" or "transgenderism" is full-blown fucking idiocy, however, and you are a fool for failing to immediately sever them into entirely separate questions.

there are essentially no scientific claims that people are born "trans". the entire pro-"trans" movement is predicated in open rejection of easily understood facts, and in utterly warped postmodern "deconstruction" applied in a shockingly irresponsible manner to public morals and policy. "trans" acceptance is nothing short of full-blown reality denial.

when the pendulum swings against "trans" insanity, it is going to swing extremely hard and very quickly. the best thing that gays can do to avoid being caught up in it is to amputate the "T" from "LGBT" like it's a gangrenous limb and the only tool around is a chainsaw.

da gubmint took my nursing license away
apparently i am useless to society until trench warfare

that addiction thread earlier was tits. who else want to try one week no weed?

starting tomorrow =x

She wants kids early and would love to be a housewife. She loves to cook for me and listens to anything I have to say.

Sexuality and gender are the only positions she still holds onto semi-strongly. I have hope

>New science doesn't have an agenda
Wrong.

you don't.They are mental disorders
animals have them too.

Puberty is the stage where desire to reproduce sexually begins.
Sexual organs begin to produce hormones that "transform" the physical capabilities and mental desires of the person into a sexually active adult with the capabilities and desires to produce off-spring.

So men want to fuck women and woman wants to get fucked by men and this is because they either have the testicles to produce the testosterone or the ovaries to produce the estrogen that makes this happen.

So unless the fetus is bombarded with enough "hormones" to make them attracted to the same sex but somehow not change their sexual organs means that this is a flimsy argument.

As for moving the goal posts:
>Its genetic
>cant be that because it doesnt happen in reality
>Then its hormonal
>That doesn't work either though
>REEEEEE SHUT UP SHITLORD

Yeah it's because their identity is all fucked up. It's really just a mental disorder

Gas her.

> central banks are good, all the goy know this!

Tell her that it's a scientific fact that homosexuals do not form pair-bonds that are as strong as heterosexuals.

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2906147/

Found that in their study, "[Homosexual] Couples with monogamous and open agreements did not differ significantly in their relationship satisfaction. This is in line with previous findings (Blasband & Peplau, 1985; Kurdek, 1988; LaSala, 2004)…"

>pdf-archive.com/2016/01/24/waite-joyner/waite-joyner.pdf

Shows that this is a stark contrast to heterosexual couples. Their research found on page 257 that "the more exclusive the sexual relationship, the greater the emotional satisfaction reported".

So clearly something is different. Research allows us to see what.

((CONTINUED BELOW))

central banks are a lot older than the concept of "transgender", but they remain a faint blip at the end of a very long and mostly uninterrupted history of hard money.

did you reply to the wrong post?

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2387250/

Studied the effect of strengthened pair-bonds in a species of apes that mate for life. . It was observed that “males [who] had…been part of a previous...experiment…which resulted behaviorally in increased interaction with their pair-mates and apparent ‘strengthening’ of the pair-bond...the males...displayed less behavioral arousal (arching, tail-lashing) towards strange females than they did pre-lesion”.

However, we can see that homosexuals have a weak pair bond as they have extreme interest in other mates which only increases as their relationship goes on, instead of decreasing like a relationship with the pair-bond was strengthening would.

>See pic related

According to the book The Male Couple (written by two homosexual psychologists who were themselves a male couple - so as unbiased a source as could possibly exist), in their study, "all [homosexual] couples with a relationship lasting more than five years have incorporated some provision for outside sexual activity in their relationships".

>journals.lww.com/aidsonline/Fulltext/2004/06180/Primary_HIV_infection_as_source_of_HIV.10.aspx

Found that even among homosexuals in relationships, their number of outside sexual partners stays very high. In their study "Men with and without a steady partner had [an average of] eight and 22 casual contacts per year, respectively".

>pdf-archive.com/2016/01/24/comparative-demographic-and-sexual-profile/comparative-demographic-and-sexual-profile.pdf

Found that, among older men who had engaged in homosexual activities it was reported that just "2.7% had had sex with 1 partner only" (which was even lower than the number who said they were straight, at 3.9%)

So on an emotional and behavioral level, we can see that same-sex relations are inferior to heterosexual ones. They do not form proper sexual bonds, if they form them at all.

>Little dude is in love with other little dudes
See you just don't know how be male. Not being gay is like the first rule of that. Guess you didn't get the message or something. You're supposed to compete with the other kids to find your place in the hierarchy, not suck their dicks

It takes a man to make a man, this is what happens when you let women raise kids alone. Single moms should be shamed, not glorified.

persian muslims have been accepting of tranz for evar.

fuck science bud. its ephemeral when compared to a handshake

Attraction is more than merely sexual. While you're obviously right that sexual desire begins at puberty, psychological attraction is already present in pre-pubescent childs. Having worked with under 10 year old kids, I strongly believe that the gay children are often easily detectable by adults.

I never argued gayness to be genetic so the goalpost issue is not relevant here.

i don't care about desert vermin, i am concerned with white people here.

No it is due to the hormones they produce. Genetics is a factor in so far as a dysfunctional adrenal/hormonal gland could produce an imbalance of endocrine, and result in homosexuality. Endocrine disorders also cause a bunch of other mental illnesses.

This can "activate" while in the womb yes, but also as far as late adolescence.

Cheers for the reading material

The underlying problem is dysfunction adrenal/hormonal glands, making an endocrine imbalance during the brain growth and causing them to develop the homosexual disorder.

Hormone treatment might not be effective, it would probably be best to invest in early detection and prevention of endocrine disorders imo.

why the gay men take female hormones when they can take male ones?

There are hundreds of species of animals demonstrating homosexual behaviour. There are none who pretend to be the opposite sex for sexual gratification.

Beat her into submission.

Don't use logic with women, it's degenerate