EU

Do any of you Europeans actually think the Union benefits your country?

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Nope

the EU was created to make war between european nations not only unviable but unthinkable

the EU has succeeded in doing that so despite all its problems it should be protected

I'm from Ireland. EU membership definitely benefited us massively.

na

>no wars
>tax haven for all of Europe
>no benefit
Lol

The roadmap to rule of law and liberal democracy for countries applying for membership has been enormously significant.

Spain, Portugal, Greece, former dictatorships turned democracies.

Reunification of Germany, successful transfer to democracy of post Communist/Soviet states.

Huge achievement of European Integration.

Northern Ireland peace process too.

Plus a bunch of laws that protect individuals/businesses from getting screwed over by their own countries, and individuals from big corporations.

Can travel where I like, live where I like, work where I like, not have to bother changing currency. Pretty sweet.

We pay the most. Big corps might evade their taxes but your normal citizens wont.

One point m8, Portugal and Spain became democracies long before, they entered the Eu.

About the question of the OP, i think cooperation between europeans is always good,the problem was then,when the project became an universalist ideia, without protecting our nations.

Nope. It's a fucking disgrace that fucks us over by taking our fish and giving us fuck all in return.

>the EU was created to make war between european nations not only unviable but unthinkable
You could also say that about the 3rd Reich. Or giving in to ISIS. It's not very difficult to avoid going to war with yourself.

Also
>The EU has kept peace in Europe for over 70 years
>The Balkans is not a part of Europe

>I'm from Ireland. EU membership definitely benefited us massively.

LOL, yes, that's why it's easier to live like a human being now than it was in the 70s. Oh wait, 2 people working cannot provide the same standard of living for a family as 1 could 40 years ago.

Also having to take in any amount of Kebbabic fucking morons just because the EU says so.

Oh well, I guess without the EU we'd be a bankrupt hellhole, just like everyone knows Iceland is. But I guess that's different, because Iceland has rich fishing waters... OH WAIT.

To follow, because the US is so bighuge and most of you don't have passports, you don't appreciate the degree to which Europeans cross borders/deal with businesses from other countries on a regular basis. EU makes that all that easier. Imagine if trying to do business in Nevada from Arizona with differences currencies, regulations, border restriction, product standards etc. Massive asspain.

Idea that the EU is a red tape factory is bizarre - what it does it replace 27+ different mess of regulations with a single common one.

Parts of England with highest levels of EU exports, most dependent on EU funding, and with fewest migrants were strongest brexit voters, the feckin eejits.

trade union was ok
everything else pure jewish filth

Carrot of access to single market provided huge incentive for democratic reform.

>Can travel where I like, live where I like, work where I like
>This is virtually impossible with non-EU states and/or most people want/need to do this constantly for some reason
>not have to bother changing currency
>This is a big hassle and every EU country is part of the Eurozone

If your cunt's poor and not Greece you get gibs

>Nope. It's a fucking disgrace that fucks us over by taking our fish and giving us fuck all in return.
That's the stupidest, most mouth-breathing statement I've read on this website all day. Think long and hard before you post again.

>The Balkans is not a part of the European Union
Correct. That's why the EU could not keep the peace there.

>LOL, yes, that's why it's easier to live like a human being now than it was in the 70s. Oh wait, 2 people working cannot provide the same standard of living for a family as 1 could 40 years ago.
Actually, farming still turns a profit, thanks to the CAP. And in addition to farming, we have computer and pharma industries. Instead of dirt roads, we have shiny motorways. Instead of being an impoverished economic satellite of Britain, we trade globally, with the US our biggest partner.

The EU has opened us up to the world, and freed us from economic dependence on Britain.

>But I guess that's different, because Iceland has rich fishing waters... OH WAIT.
Do you honestly think our fisheries hold any value in comparison to unlimited access to the world's largest and most important free trade bloc? Are you retarded?

>This is a big hassle and every EU country is part of the Eurozone
Confirmed for probably never having left Ireland or running an international business.

What bothers me most about the EU is that you stupid Eurofucks actually let Germany have any sort of bartering power again....what dumb move you progressive morons.

>The Balkans is not a part of Europe

Well, they weren't at the time of the conflicts.

>It's not very difficult to avoid going to war with yourself.

Say that to France and Germany.

>You could also say that about the 3rd Reich. Or giving in to ISIS.

Wow boohoo, those bureaucrats at Brussels are such tyrants you might aswell be living under sharia law!

youtube.com/watch?v=XxutY7ss1v4

we need some kind of unity or we just wont be able to compete against upcoming superpowers like china, india even a rouge US.

>they weren't at the time of the conflicts.

part of the EU I should clarify

>Wow boohoo, those bureaucrats at Brussels are such tyrants you might aswell be living under sharia law!
You mean, "those politicians you democratically elect and send to Brussels", not "those bureaucrats".

On the positive side: we can go to holiday without having the burden of a passport
On the negative side: nobody has money left to go to holiday

well latest voter turnout for EU parliamentary elections is like 40%, so the reality is most europeans don't really feel represented

that's a deeper problem, political disenfranchisement, that we are seeing world wide though

>On the negative side: nobody has money left to go to holiday
In fairness, it isn't the EU's fault that Italy can't run itself effectively. Sorry mate - harsh but true.

>well latest voter turnout for EU parliamentary elections is like 40%, so the reality is most europeans don't really feel represented
>that's a deeper problem, political disenfranchisement, that we are seeing world wide though
Acknowledged and agreed. I'm at a loss with what to do though. This self-imposed disenfranchisement is a cancer that's eating away at liberal democracy.

Why does germany have to go full anschluss mode with everything? They could have easily just kept it a trade agreement yet they try to force stupid bullshit on members.

This.

>Italy can't run itself effectively

While this is true, it's also true that EU has done a lot to worsen our economy

>tax havens
Literally the only problem our world is facing

>While this is true, it's also true that EU has done a lot to worsen our economy
What steps did the EU take to deliberately worsen Italy's economy?

Overall yes, but fuck me if we don't have issues with wage suppression and international crime plus refugees and illegal immigrants

Still, we have like 5 percent unemployment aka full employment and lack workers for our export driven economy

EU is bad for economy

By making them use the EURO, when a nation uses a different currency it will fail.

>EU is bad for economy
How on earth is free trade bad for the economy?

>By making them use the EURO, when a nation uses a different currency it will fail.
But Italy voluntarily signed up to the euro, knowing full well the terms and conditions. If it didn't want to enter, it could have remained out like the UK, Denmark, or Sweden. Nobody forced Italy into the euro.

>How on earth is free trade bad for the economy?
It's not dumbass

>But Italy voluntarily signed up to the euro, knowing full well the terms and conditions. If it didn't want to enter, it could have remained out like the UK, Denmark, or Sweden. Nobody forced Italy into the euro.
Well Italians didn't want it, their government signed them up and the EURO is shit.

Not for ours- the Danish crown is pegged to the Euro while it actually would be stronger if set free.

We benefit economically in the same way as Germany

It's the southern siestaians that have their shit kicked in due to lack of efficiancy in their national economies

the only way to revitalize citizenship is via the descentralization of power and resources so that the decisions made by smaller communities, the ones people are actually inserted in and interact daily and care for, end up holding more weight in our lives than the decisions of some fucko sitting his fat ass on a fancy chair miles away

the only way to revitalize democracy is via internet-based direct democracy: for 20 years now we have been voting for the results of stupid reality tv shows, why shouldn't we be able to fucking go online and vote on a bill instead of having to "trust" some corrupt puppet actively working against our interests in congress? specially if it's municipal business there is no reason why I shouldn't just click a button somewhere that goes "my priority is public transport and second is healthcare and so on" and in the ends it tallies the results up and gives a part of the budget to accurately address the wishes of the population

just figure this shit out already, actually, switzerland already does it like this

Wouldn't you rather have your own currency that you can print and not some German controlled one?

>It's not dumbass
So how is the EU, the world's largest and deepest free trade bloc, bad for the economy? What alternative to the EU would improve Italy's economic state?

>Well Italians didn't want it, their government signed them up
But the Italians DID want the euro.

>and the EURO is shit.
Is that what the cool kids on Breitbart are saying now? Meh, I'm happy being the second most important currency on the planet, with the rock-steady credit line of Germany keeping interest rates down and insulating us smaller states from rapid overheating in currency markets. We're significantly stronger than the Canadian dollar, if I recall. :^)

Other than the obvious immigration madness, the quotas on production and the legalization of substandard products and companies of the union come to my mind.
While companies in Italy have to respect some very high standards and costs and pay very high taxes, with the free economy of EU, European companies can operate freely in our territory without the need to respect our laws.
This has lead many little Italian companies to die and many big ones to relocate elsewhere.
Coupled to our corrupt and pro-EU government, EU has contributed heavily to the worsening of our economy.

>So how is the EU, the world's largest and deepest free trade bloc, bad for the economy? What alternative to the EU would improve Italy's economic state?
Because they have the countries within use the EURO

>But the Italians DID want the euro.
No they didn't

>Is that what the cool kids on Breitbart are saying now? Meh, I'm happy being the second most important currency on the planet, with the rock-steady credit line of Germany keeping interest rates down and insulating us smaller states from rapid overheating in currency markets. We're significantly stronger than the Canadian dollar, if I recall. :^)
There are more Euros owed in debt than there are Canadian dollars :)

>the only way to revitalize democracy is via internet-based direct democracy: for 20 years now we have been voting for the results of stupid reality tv shows, why shouldn't we be able to fucking go online and vote on a bill instead of having to "trust" some corrupt puppet actively working against our interests in congress? specially if it's municipal business there is no reason why I shouldn't just click a button somewhere that goes "my priority is public transport and second is healthcare and so on" and in the ends it tallies the results up and gives a part of the budget to accurately address the wishes of the population
Sounds lovely, but unworkable. However little I like our current system of politics, it's incomparably better than being run by a giant computer.

>actually, switzerland already does it like this
Unfortunately not, my friend.

>Wouldn't you rather have your own currency that you can print and not some German controlled one?
Wouldn't printing a currency just devalue it, punishing savers and leading to unchecked inflation? Y'know, like in Zimbabwe or Venezuela?

>But the Italians DID want the euro.
Nope, nobody asked us if we wanted the Euro or not

>Wouldn't printing a currency just devalue it, punishing savers and leading to unchecked inflation? Y'know, like in Zimbabwe or Venezuela?
Short answer: No

Long Answer: No because money HAS to be printed at a steady rate to prevent deflation. If the amount of a curreny stayed the same while population and production increased there would be the same money spread out over more people, that means wages must be constantly going down.

> Norway
> EU
> Dumb nigger

NATO and mutually assured destruction have kept the peace. EU really hasn't helped.

>unworkable.

only due to lack of political will, if banking has gone online to some degree (with some issues along the way, still working on them) there is no reason democracy can't too

>Unfortunately not, my friend.

well I mean direct democracy-wise not with all the technology apparatus

>t. just watched the new EU propaganda on jewtube
If national sovereignty doesn't interest you then this place isnt for you

This is the most blatant shilling I've ever seen. It's not possible to be retarded enough to think this is anything other than a paid promotion.

>Other than the obvious immigration madness, the quotas on production and the legalization of substandard products and companies of the union come to my mind.
The immigration madness is not the EU's fault. You're in an unfortunate location. I don't know anything about EU quotas on industrial production or legalisation of substandard products, maybe you could enlighten me? It doesn't sound very in keeping with the single market.

>While companies in Italy have to respect some very high standards and costs and pay very high taxes, with the free economy of EU, European companies can operate freely in our territory without the need to respect our laws.
Could you give me an example of this?

>This has lead many little Italian companies to die and many big ones to relocate elsewhere. Coupled to our corrupt and pro-EU government, EU has contributed heavily to the worsening of our economy.
So what you're saying is basically that your economy is unable to cope with competition from more efficient, hard-working competitors, and your reaction is not to work harder but to try and block yourselves off from the market?

>Because they have the countries within use the EURO
Like Ireland, which grew five times faster than the UK last year? Surely the more countries using the euro, the better in that case?

The Italians wanted the euro. Can you produce an opinion poll which proves otherwise?

>There are more Euros owed in debt than there are Canadian dollars :)
Probably untrue. If it is true, it's because Canada's economy is essentially irrelevant compared to the might of the EU economy. :^)

>Nope, nobody asked us if we wanted the Euro or not
You told your government you did, when you elected them on a pro-euro platform.

>Long Answer: No because money HAS to be printed at a steady rate to prevent deflation
And that's exactly what the ECB is doing. So what's the problem with the euro again?

>If national sovereignty doesn't interest you then this place isnt for you
It does. I know that a small country like Ireland has no real sovereignty outside the EU. Within the EU, our sovereignty is both protected and magnified. Our voice becomes as legally powerful as that of a world power like Germany, and we have a seat at the top table of the most important trade bloc in the world.

>This is the most blatant shilling I've ever seen.
Can you identify any factual errors with anything I've said?

>Like Ireland, which grew five times faster than the UK last year? Surely the more countries using the euro, the better in that case?
Growing just means the economy is getting bigger, not the economy per capita. Each Irish person is still the same if not poorer

>The Italians wanted the euro. Can you produce an opinion poll which proves otherwise?
No and frankly it doesn't matter since the point is it made their country poorer, if they wanted it they were most likley fooled by beurocrats

>Probably untrue. If it is true, it's because Canada's economy is essentially irrelevant compared to the might of the EU economy. :^)
Average Canadian is richer than average European, nuff said

>And that's exactly what the ECB is doing. So what's the problem with the euro again?
It's printing money by loaning it out creating more debt. With national currencies you can print money without forcing debt on the people.

I think my country benefits the EU

...

Romania - yes. They took in all the gypsies, and we're thinking about closing the door behind them. Have fun Germany, Sweden, France. The only downside is they're (mostly Germany) raping us of our resources, but we benefit from the free trade too. Lower prices, more & better goods. If Eastern Europe manages to stay as conservative as it is right now, it will soon become the best place to live on Earth. Close to zero crime, good weather, beautiful land & women, homogenous population, not a popular destination amongst immigrants etc.

Fuci off everyrhing is turning into even a bigger shit,also the gipay meme needs to fie, rhey re still here and now on welfare which is enforced by eyu. Have younotived who is eunning rhisplacenow rhe newpsd makesmemissiliescu

"norse union" when you're full of non-euros.
lel

Non-norse will be shipped of to niggerunion, faggot

>Could you give me an example of this?
Truck drivers for example, they can't work for more than 8 hours a day to prevent sleeping incidents, but if the truck is owned by a foreign European company, this law don't apply. Also the minimum wage in Italy is very high because the taxes are also very high, better to close the company and reopen it in another country, you can now open a subsidiary in Italy and pay the minimum wage of the country you have the head office in.

>your economy is unable to cope with competition from more efficient, hard-working competitors
Our economy used to work differently, we had very good infrastructures and services, payed by our high taxes and these very efficient infrastructures increased our work output. Now we have foreign company who use our services but pay taxes in other countries, and yes, in this system where we must pay so much taxes, our companies are not able to compete.

you're so cucked that you will do the opposite son

Looks who is talking, fag. Portugal is not even a country, and belongs to Spain.

>Norway calling countries that have been around for centuries non-countries
>Norway
>calling any country a non-country

And you belong to Canada and Mexico, amerifat nigger.

everyone but me gotta learn

Eu could be great without all the degeneracy.

Degeneracy is good tho.