I understand there is no way to prove either side but it's good to hear other's thoughts.
If possible let's keep God out of this and solely focus on the fact that we are aware. Do we have free will? I say yes because the alternative is to assume I am not in control, and thus abnegating responsibility. We are in control and must take full responsibility for everything we do, and therefore we choose our actions.
But who(or what) chooses?
Other urls found in this thread:
newscientist.com
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
youtube.com
youtube.com
youtube.com
google.com
twitter.com
I'd like to add one quote from the creator of South Park which I think is rather poignant:
"Basically… out of all the ridiculous religion stories which are greatly, wonderfully ridiculous—the silliest one I've ever heard is, 'Yeah… there's this big giant universe and it's expanding, it's all gonna collapse on itself and we're all just here just 'cause… just 'cause'. That, to me, is the most ridiculous explanation ever."
I don't think we have free will, but people that live like they aren't in control of their actions tend to become weak and uncaring.
If we don't have free will then what determines it all? Complete randomness?
Couldn't we have both chaos and free will existing simultaneously?
>Does Consciousness Exist?
I'm conscious
What allows that to occur?
Here's another point:
Gravitons do not technically exist. They hypothetically exist to explain gravity. But we still have no hard proof that gravity's particle is a real thing.
What if consciousness is a particle like a photon? What if it exists alongside electrical impulses in the brain? What if it's something that, much like gravity, simply has yet to be proven true(or false)?
Yes. And i can prove it
>Do we have free will?
No, Spinoza disproved the notion hundreds of years ago.
>I say yes because the alternative is to assume I am not in control
Poor reasoning
>thus abnegating responsibility
Not necessarily
>We are in control and must take full responsibility for everything we do, and therefore we choose our actions.
Holy shit my man, take some intro to logic and argumentation; your reasoning is a mess.
>there's this big giant universe and it's expanding, it's all gonna collapse on itself
This isn't scientific consensus.
>we're all just here just 'cause… just 'cause
>That, to me, is the most ridiculous explanation ever.
It's a placeholder explanation. It's the best thing we have for the time being. Jumping to unfounded conclusions like Christianity or Taoism is more ridiculous than admitting you don't know and living just cause.
The particular arrangement of neurons between the ears of the person typing this post.
>but people that live like they aren't in control of their actions tend to become weak and uncaring
That's why we can't spread the word of determinism. I think Jurassic Park makes this point.
Smart people ought to keep their discoveries to themselves because dumb people are untrustworthy.
>If we don't have free will then what determines it all?
This is gibberish
>Couldn't we have both chaos and free will existing simultaneously?
The concept of free will doesn't can't function in light of our mechanistic understanding of the universe.
>Free will doesn't exist
Okay, so if my will doesn't dictate my decisions then what DOES determine my decisions?
>This is gibberish
Really gets those almonds activated
>I understand there is no way to prove either side
The Sun should be all the proof you need, coming from an esoteric perspective, but honestly no shit currently this or that can't be proven using the scientific method, in fact not everything is meant to be studied/discovered using the scientific method.
Also one other point:
> That's why we can't spread the word of determinism
This implies that the word of determinism is real. Otherwise what's there to "not spread"?
If determinism is 100% accurate with no room for free will then prove this to be true. If not, then you can only say you BELIEVE it's 100% determined. You cannot say it is truth.
But of course that's the whole point of this thread is to discuss. So if you have points as to why determinism exists please share.
Your will does dictate your decisions. Your will is dictated by external forces, thus it's not free. You are a series of cogs in a causal universe.
>The Sun should be all the proof you need
We are here "just cause". It's not like earth formed and then we showed up. It took 4.5 BILLION years to get from a molten rock in space, to now. Life is a random coincidence that happened purely out of coincidental laws of averages.
>If a pedo is attracted to children, but never goes through with acting on it, he still doesn't have free will.
You're the one who needs some intro to logic and argumentation. You have this air of superiority, and really said nothing of any value in your post.
It's really not even worth replying to, but you think it is in your lopsided view.
>Life is a random coincidence that happened purely out of coincidental laws of averages
This is not provable. It certainly is reasonable to believe of course.
But Trey Parker's point is when people believe this fervently just like religious fundamentalists then the hardcore skeptics who follow scientism leave no room for growth, much like christians or buddhists or whatever else closes your mind to alternatives.
If you can prove we're all here "just cause" then I'd love to know more.
But Trey's point is exactly calling out your statement... if you say that what you've posted is 100% accurate then you need to prove it. Otherwise you're making a leap from belief into knowledge, yet nothing has been proven other than to yourself.
Also just to tack on, I'm not saying your evolution claim is wrong.
The point of the quote to compare it against religion. So yes this is most likely billions of years of evolution... but for what purpose?
To die and rot in the ground? There's no proof that when you die consciousness goes away, yet many who hold your beliefs will say so with complete confidence.
To state that all of this happened, all this evolution, tons of energy/time spent for this all to occur, literally "just because"... that part is at least worth questioning.
>If a pedo is attracted to children, but never goes through with acting on it, he HAS free will.
Do you see how the implicit conclusion doesn't follow from the premises? This is a shit argument for
>You have this air of superiority,
Not trying to come across that way
>really said nothing of any value in your post.
There wasn't much to reply to
>It's really not even worth replying to
Make the case that free will can exist in an essentially causal/random universe.
>your lopsided view.
I'm open to discussion
>the hardcore skeptics who follow scientism leave no room for growth, much like christians or buddhists or whatever else closes your mind to alternatives.
This isn't true because a faith in science, unlike religion, does leave room for growth. The bible is the same today as it was in 1100. Science textbooks from 10 years ago are long expired.
However, I do agree with the sentiment that zealously clinging to anything is bad. This is why a reasonable skeptic is prudent in their skepticism.
There is plenty of proof that consciousness goes away. We can literally map out our conscious thoughts with a CT scan. Like actually 100% proof, watch the synapses in our brain. That is what conscious thought is. We take what we perceive from the outside world and make conscious connections to our memories. All of that stops when we die. Have you ever seen a CT scan of a dead person? There is nothing, no activity, no perception absolute nothing. I personally don't believe there is any sense in questioning life. We are here through sheer, random coincidence. With how billions upon billions of stars that could each potentially contain 9 planets. A series of random coincidence that lead to life. Our only purpose in life is to pass on our genes so that they too can continue the evolutionary process.
*expired
Should be "obsolete"
>This is why a reasonable skeptic is prudent in their skepticism
And I would say the same for anyone who's more "open" to believing things with less scientific evidence. Push & pull.
Balance is always key.
>Our only purpose in life is to pass on our genes so that they too can continue the evolutionary process.
How do you reach this conclusion?
Because if we don't pass on our genes our species dies. That's the opposite of life friend. The only way to extinguish life, is death; and if you've ever watched someone actually die you will see that their body will subconsciously struggle to continue living. It's been coded into our DNA to live, that's why we have fight or flight. In some situations it's more beneficial to run, strictly for means of survival; strictly to continue life.
>watch the synapses in our brain. That is what conscious thought is
>Like actually 100% proof
That is mental activity.
Consciousness != being conscious/awake
Conscious is a state of the mind's activity which can be studied in a CT scan.
Consciousness is whatever perceives its own existence.
Is it possible to exist without a brain? You say no. But you cannot prove that. Neither can I.
This is why it's not 100% provable.
Yes you can prove that activity occurs in the brain of course. But none of us can prove what makes us conscious. Is it just neurons? Maybe. It's fair to assume that it's just electrical impulses. But it's also fair to assume things are not so black-and-white
Reasonable points all around.
For all we know, Sup Forumsacks, or eventual Sup Forumsacks who are led here, are the only ones who have consciousness and free will. It could be a test. This is the most degenerate society has ever been, and yet amongst the millions and millions and billions of humans and humans' progenitors, you don't remember living as one of them. One might expect to have previously lived as one of them, statistically.
Yet here you are, living in the greatest moral nightmare the Earth has ever seen where Christianity is scorned, White Christians are told they should die off, and Islam is pushed to the forefront, while the elites such as Pope Francis are obviously trying to push for their the anti-Christ to come to Earth; according to Jews even.
>but muh Spinoza hundreds of years ago
>free will doesn't exist
>he was undeniably right and you must listen to me because I'm righter than you
>but I'm gonna make 3 page long posts with huge spacing, replying to every sentence to make meself look rly smart
Love is the proof of the soul.
I'm not using perfect sentence structure when replying to a tard who thinks he knows the mysteries of the universe because he read Spinoza
>It's been coded into our DNA to live
...therefore we ought to live.
Why does it matter what our DNA says? Ever heard of appeal to nature?
the proof of god lies in the creation through sex. if something is a chimera or test tube baby or clone etc they wind up having behavior problems and all come out gay and evil because they are born as "unclean spirits"
Soul in a substance dualism way or soul in a hylomorphic dualism way?
>this guy thinks he's conscious
How do you prove that you love someone?
>Soul in a substance dualism way or soul in a hylomorphic dualism way?
Both?
Anyone ever wonder what schizophrenia really is besides what Jew shrinks say it is?
newscientist.com
>is it possible to exist without a brain? You say no.
That's not what I said at all. The bed I'm laying on right now doesn't have a brain, but I can prove its existence simply by laying on it. It may not be able too, but that point is moot because I have a brain and can prove its existence whether it can or not.
Nothing lasts forever user. Our bodies are carbon based biological entities. They break down, and that's that. If I really have to explain why humans die, then you don't have a place in this conversation. You're not just moving goal posts, you've taken them and put them on another field. Just because we have evolved to increase our chances of survival doesn't mean we're invincible.
Again CT scans. There have been multiple studies on this man. People have been shown pictures of people they love and you can see the same portions of the brain light up as motivation and happiness. That's biological proof of love. Every feeling is a chemical reaction in our body, that can be proven.
By fucking and cumming in her pussy. wither shes 5 or 15 doesnt matter
>Consciousness is whatever perceives its own existence.
I don't think that's a very suitable definition
>For all we know, Sup Forumsacks, or eventual Sup Forumsacks who are led here, are the only ones who have consciousness and free will
What does consciousness have to do with free that you would place them so closely in a sentence?
Also, I am certain that I am conscious. This is the single indubitable fact that I am of aware of in this moment.
>One might expect to have previously lived as one of them, statistically.
What? Like reincarnation?
>Yet here you are, living in the greatest moral nightmare the Earth has ever seen where Christianity is scorned, White Christians are told they should die off, and Islam is pushed to the forefront, while the elites such as Pope Francis are obviously trying to push for their the anti-Christ to come to Earth; according to Jews even.
That has nothing to do with consciousness or free will
>>but muh Spinoza hundreds of years ago
Spinoza's reasoning is airtight.
>>he was undeniably right
No, but his logic is airtight.
>>but I'm gonna make 3 page long posts with huge spacing,
Makes it easier to read
>replying to every sentence to make meself look rly smart
No, going point by point ensures that I cover the e
>the mysteries of the universe
That isn't a thing and the people who bring it up are likely insecure because they haven't read any philosophy.
>because he read Spinoza
Spinoza's just the best refutation of libertarian free will.
Receive a facial
What about worms and shit, nigga? They be all hermaphrodite, yet they smaht
Jelly p-zombie detected
>Nothing lasts forever user.
Who gives a fuck? Why shouldn't I do coke and get fucked in the ass for 30 years and then die without reproducing? How is reproducing and being a cuck to muh anscetors and muh progeny a better option?
What if there was a species of super-intelligent beings before us but they eventually realized the futility of life and stopped breeding?
Why doesn't my dick have free will to rape?
By "exist" I meant consciousness continuing to exist, not the atoms of matter that make up the brain.
If you remove a human's brain the body still exists. So does the brain. But you're saying the conscious perceiver no longer exists. But that belief cannot be proven true or false, it is merely a belief.
If you correctly study religions and the occult/esoteric (both mean hidden as far as I'm aware) side to them you'll probably learn a lot about metaphysics, the nature of reality, life itself and why this or that thing is the way it is in this or that religion, which in itself I'd say is a lengthy thing to come to fully understand. Anyways if you will I suggest do your research in a strictly unbiased way, don't hold on to a certain viewpoint strongly and reject another without studying the later in detail as I personally found out in my studies that what might not currently make sense will make sense given time and proper knowledge. Anyways you're probably interested in the overall syncretism that underlies practically all religions, if you will study that like I've mentioned just now but don't forget not to hold onto to a certain viewpoint without fully understanding a conflicting one, and yes this is directly about having a materialistic view about the things to which syncretism and esoteric knowledge pertain to. Anyways I hope my words won't send you off on an incorrect track, as words do hold the capacity to deceive and kill. This was just some info, I have only the best intentions.
Lastly our word for soul in English in approximately pronounced the same as the word for sun in Latin. The concept of physical death and the proceeding rebirth/transition and eternal life is a very ancient and old concept, pertaining to the Sun directly as I understand or has symbolic value associated with it, perhaps both, different viewpoints yield different answers. Anyways yeah, just wanted to help out.
Your arguments are based in extreme rigid logic, most of which was written when the world made more sense; one you never lived in. The world is now supremely chaotic. This is where you are limited.
And I have read much philosophy.
You must be 18 yo to be on Sup Forums
>Spinoza's reasoning is airtight
Please expand
I was not aware that someone had proven free will false.
The word "we" implies a consciousness as subject
The word "prove" implies knowledge and thus a consciousness
You are retarded
>I understand there is no way to prove either side
Yeah there is, you can do it right now if you wanted.
>What about worms and shit, nigga? They be all hermaphrodite, yet they smaht
all animals/beasts are monsters and born through sin. humans are monsters too that's why jesus died on the cross.. to redeem every human from that loophole.
You mention many times to research but you don't offer any resources. What do you recommend?
Gnosticism?
Or you know.... life developed where it could develop (from a scientific aspect), because organic compounds are pretty fragile and exist in a small amplitude of temperatures.
But fuck it, why reason with common sense when you can use non-scientific methods, because they have proven themselves worthy.
>you could totally prove all of these millennia-long debates with ease
>but I'm not gonna do that bro I've got shit to do I'm just pretending to be retarded on Sup Forums
Whether they may be or may not be a god, the manifestation of information within all of us infinitely expanding with only time and the 3rd dimension being obstacles is something I find more complex than simply biological or physical. The metaphysical cannot be observed or experimented on, yet it is the most active element of this world, even this universe. Nothing of the world we live in today is prime, everything is an illusion drawn forth from the metaphysical. How can you argue for objective truths in this world? Simply because it is a comforting thought?
Again, I wish to bring attention to this. I am not schizophrenic and I cannot see through the test, however, why is it that those who have auditory and visual "hallucinations" can see through it?
newscientist.com
At a certain point, you grow out of the limited, atheistic, extremely rational mindset that a little bit of philosophy gives you, and then you break out of it and begin to think for yourself.
Then evidence of free will and free thought, however affected by past experiences they might be, present themselves to you.
Then evidence of free will and free thought, however affected by past experiences they might be, presents itself to you.
*edit - typed it quick
Actually that's not even right. Fuck it, you get my point.
i like to think that the awareness that controls our body as a vehicle could be considered the soul. and i would like to believe that when we die our soul awareness rejoins a mother soul collective type thing and then possibly redistributes
but i dont believe that, i believe we have no soul and when we die we are shut down exactly like being unconscious
it's upsetting that i will probably never learn the real answers im seeking
I also apologize for the poor sentence structure in the middle of my first paragraph but honestly as I went along with enlightenment I didn't delve into studying Gnosticism. The thing with that is you studying it of course will give you a new view point from which you'll be able to look at this or that topic pertaining to Christianity/Gnosticism but I suggest you study Christianity to the point where you have general clarity, since in as I understand in Gnosticism (and I didn't thoroughly study it yet) they demonize the father aspect of the Trinity ie the old testament God. The problem in that lies in the fact that it seems that many people back then and today try to rationalize what they do not fully understand, meaning the Gnostics as I heard probably thought the God figure of the old testament was an evil murderous being, yet the concept of holiness and strictly neutral reward and punishment in the bible goes way over their heads. It's kinda ironic how some as I've heard participated in what the bible would call as highly immoral sexually degenerative behavior, mixing period blood with semen and possibly cannibalizing newborns.
Hence it can be said that views that the Gnostics had were in clear opposition of what your typical purehearted Christian should have. Now anyways I'm not saying the knowledge they possed is inherently bad, yet I think they skewed off into what can be best described as "left handed" practices. And I don't know a lot about them so I might be wrong on this or that, probably not though.
So I suggest researching religion, take a lot of notes, be organized, and eventually you'll come across the Saturn conspiracy, take into deep consideration that the God Saturn was merely symbolized by the planet as I understand, yet I don't mean to demean the significant importance of the planet. Anyways I recommend listening to Santos Bonacci, google sun of saturn as well and don't fall for the materialistic meme.
It's ok user I am here with you. Once they realize how often their sense and rational deceive them they will be greeted by a great, shimmering beacon in the darkness. I assume most of them are still coming out of that edgy teenager phase and still live with the support of others.
Stop masturbation other wise you will be a slave to going after a cheap thrill meaning there will be no free will.
What is the source in you gif mate. i saw this years ago but i can't remember what it was.
Evidence against:
>unobserved
>no biological function
>we understand to a certain extent that the brain isn't connected to anything outside the body
Evidence for:
>hippies and uneducated Americans
>a pre science story book
>OPs dim imagination.
Hmm let me see is their a soul/unbodied conscious.
I am aware of the saturn sun concept and Bonacci's work(although it's been a while). But I will keep this saved for future reference.
And BTW your views on Gnosticism are pretty off so I would recommend you researching John Lamb Lash and possibly Mark Passio if you have time.
Gnosticism is many beliefs but I characterize it as a belief in natural law. The idea that there are inherent qualities of nature, much like gravity, that define cause/effect on the physical plane. They also have their own beliefs in origins, free will, life, humanity, etc.
Gnostics did not sacrifice babies or perform blood/sex rituals en masse--definitely not to my knowledge. Maybe some groups who sprouted up over time, but Gnostic beliefs are not inherently involved in chaos magic. But good info thanks for posting and giving this thread some woo-woo cause it definitely needs a balance beyond rigidity
Saved the gif from here a while back
People ITT may be interested in reading Neville Goddard.
>souls have no biological purpose
>the appendix & tonsils super-duper absolutely do
>no other particles outside the body connect to the brain
>what is spooky action at a distance
It's always a fucking britbong you spouts mental retardation to reaffirm his nihilistic worldview
Keep listening to that closet gay fucker Ricky Gervais
Who knows, but there is something there that cannot be explained by science as we know it now.
Give hydrogen 13.5 billion years and it will become aware of itself. Science tells us a lot about that journey, but it cannot explain consciousness. Indeed evolutionary theory suggests that it shouldn't exist.
*who
Which books? Who is he & what are his arguments?
Not if you are a Sup Forums mod.
damn, thanks for the help, i found the exactly same gif but it doesn't say from where it is.
Before I go I think you guys should read upon the Myth of Er.
Thanks for replying to that fag worth this. It's basically the point I wanted to make to him, but this was easier for me.
If I run electricity through a dead body it doesn't wake up....nah in all seriousness of course there's a soul, the body is just the vehicle not sure how hard this is to understand. Literally only ex-religious people in the west have this problem.
If anyone cares for my post. The hearts of good men and women earn souls. The ones who perish young move. The spirit of your soul depicts whether you can move on to another universe and World. Evil Souls go to Evil Worlds where they're are given another chance to do good
abscence of evidence is not evidence of absence
>Does A Soul/Consciousness Exist?
Soul no, consciousness yes.
>I understand there is no way to prove either side but it's good to hear other's thoughts.
I think therefor I am proves consciousness exists in some capacity.
beyond the physical world exists a phantasmagoria of emotion and consciousness
it's an impossible land to conceive, and is the chaos of life, there is no order, all that exists is what exists, love, hate
you are thrown into this forever, unsure of anything and in no control
It is hell until you learn the truth of life and the soul
and then you are whatever you want, you can find whoever you want, and that is it
i have seen this world in my dreams where i am warned how the dead envy the simple and contented lives we live, they know longer know the pleasure of the mortal world
every moment we waste they hate us for
OK and saying that we're here "just cause" is an argument from ignorance.
"We exist just because, and this is factual because it has not been proven wrong"
Logical fallacy.
man my english sucks and im tired but let me explain
Consciousness is
You have Senses, which evolved in order to ensure your survival
Those Senses send Information to your Brain, which basicially is a CPU or whatever
It stores information, calculates shit, keeps the system going, you know whats up
Ok, in order to survive in our reality, in this 3 dimensional world, we need or better said, its good to have certain traits
Understanding Dimension is one of them, Understanding Time also
We have Senses, plus our Brain adapted methods in order to understand dimensions as an example, depth perseption and understanding et cetera
Now our Brain adapted to do even more complicated but yet good for survival techniques
The Brain can, in context to the Sun, give you an idea what the time is
You need that because, if you dont unterstand time, have fun hunting in the middle of the night
And now take this concept, and add it to every Sense
Now you have a multi complex System of Mechanisms, you posses, which help you survive
Now we basicially have Consciousness of a pretty advanced animal
Now we are gonna look at the human Consciousness, better said the space in between the advanced animal Consciousness and the Human one
We humans like to be together with other Humans, we are not the strongest, fastest, animals arround
So we have to be in groups, because it improves the chances to survive
Luckily, we had a really good evolution and adaptation, and our brain got really efficient, so we could "learn" lets call it, higher survival group functions
And this is basicially the big thing, the thing that makes us human
Animals like eachother lets say because of their smell, the hormones just match, and bang, they like each other, simplisticly said
Humans developed a higher version of that
We seperate not only with those animal things, but also, with lets say, things we like, music nowdays as an example
now stretch that idea again to other areas
We as humans, of course, like to be arround, people like us, or people we can benefit from, it helps us survive
We as humans, just keep adding things with which we can subdivide, in order to get the best result/partner/group
Now having a group establisht, it is important, to ensure, this group functions together well, over a long period of time, so we developed interests, music, humor ( which is basicially, someone says something, triggering your neuronalnerves, your brain likes it, because it gets stimulated and rewards you with seratonin= you like the person more ) etc
Now we have a functioning group, we now have it more easy, and we develop some sort of self consciousness, and a will, to define who we are
Thats the latest adaptation in terms of humans and society i think, and its basicially tattoing yourself some shit, because it means something for you and so on
i dont want to write anymore, im tired, but i hope you guys get the basic idea of consciousness
That's actually not an argument from ignorance it's basically a null hypothesis. We exist "just cause" because that's essentially the "we don't know exactly how" position and we sit on that position until the actual process of everything existing becomes proven. The fact stands that something exists in some capacity and the process by which it exists may not be perfectly explained yet and so we sit on the "we exist because" position until it's explained. I don't think "just cause" is being proposed as an explanation it's being proposed as the position we take until we have a proper explanation behind something existing instead of nothing existing at all.
and your "inner voice" is basicially just an aid, to help you get arround in this highly complex social situations, humans have
>soul doesn't exist, but consciousness does
>on a spinning ball in the middle of a huge expansive vacuum with billions of others as you might see in a game like Stellaris, they say
>no god though. but we like Islam. pls brng more to europe and america pls. christianity succ
>as you sit at a computer clicking away at buttons for whatever reason, actually doing shit... for some reason typing nonsense to the hivemind... as the elites tell you you're cannon fodder and nothing more than a sack of meat - which the Jews pushed with Communism and are currently doing now in America as they try to take down Alex Jones by shilling on Sup Forums
youtube.com
>except that the globe is probably the test, because the Jews and elite know the earth is flat and this was probably actually the truth which slipped out being the brief awakening during the "the great deception" the Christians always talk about
>2:22
>93 million miles away
youtube.com
wew lad
Actually the original poster was quoting my reply about Trey Parker's quote. It's my 1st reply in this thread.
Trey is saying that when people explain life as "just cause", meaning it's all random chaos and that's the answer, that is just as bad as the major religions.
When you religiously believe we are just dust that exists for no reason out of randomness, with no room for anything else, then you're following the same rigid mindset as the people who think Jesus is gonna save us.
Of course nobody really knows the answer. That's the entire point of this thread.
But to the original point, it's definitely an appeal to ignorance. If someone says "we exist just because of evolution n sheet" they may be using that as a placeholder. Others are saying that with 100% truth, even though no true evidence exists to state that factually. And that is a fallacy.
What is it? Cause this article says shit.
>free will
You are evolved to process data, try to foresee different possibilities and then make the best choices based on that. The sense of self centers around the concept of choice, how can a choice making system not perceive the different options?. You can call the choice an illusion because in one sense it's predetermined but that's dismissing your point of view as a choice making machine.
>what chooses
When I think about this my mind always goes to feral children. If I had not been raised in human culture I like other feral children would choose to chimp out constantly, throw feces and be unable to learn language. This kind of means the "spirit" that is typing this doesn't really originate from my biological body but mostly from the society I was raised in. What I call my self, ego or will is derived from my environment and will still exist there when I die.
Watch the video. Schizophrenics can see through illusions.
The problem is - it isn`t.
And your making and argument from fallacy. Which is obviously fallacious.
Because in this situation "just cause" is as viable as Buddha and Jesus.
Think of it this way. We know what atoms are. We know they are a building block of the universe. We have theories as to what makes up atoms and even deeper.
Same goes to the larger scale - we know the universe. We know there has to be a boundary, but whats behind it ?
But the moral of the story isn`t - whats the largest or smallest piece. It`s that there is one and that it`s exactly that one.
And at that point, when humanity finally discovers the smallest unit that makes up our reality - there will really be a very important question - why ? Why this, why not something else, why not something deeper ? And there is a larger chance no one will ever find out. And the answer to that, as dull as it may seem, but will be - just cause. Because even a divine entity would find itself lacking a decent answer, as to way it didn`t go even deeper, or why it didn`t make silicon the base of organic chemistry.
Even if you put a divine entity at the end of every philosophical question - the entity is just that - an entity, and even it has to have reasons. And even it will stumble upon the question - why the hell would I even bother creating sentient life ? - Just because.
Yes and Trey Parker's not a great thinker, he makes cartoons. Nothing about his statement was based in any kind of philosophical or scientific basis which is why I disregard it since it is devoid of any argumentative or informative content.
>When you religiously believe we are just dust that exists for no reason out of randomness, with no room for anything else, then you're following the same rigid mindset as the people who think Jesus is gonna save us.
No one religiously believes this because religious believe requires no evidence. Following evidence and rejecting things not substantiated by evidence is rigid because as of right now it is demonstrably the most efficient way for us to accurately create models of what we perceive as reality around us. "Rigid" is not a criticism. I'd like my doctor to rigidly stick to medical science because that is going to produce the best possible results for me at the time.
>But to the original point, it's definitely an appeal to ignorance.
As I explained, it's the null hypothesis.
> If someone says "we exist just because of evolution n sheet" they may be using that as a placeholder.
That's not "just cause" and evolution doesn't propose to explain existence, evolution explains the diversity of life.
Skilled classical/neo-classical music like this at 4:32 which triggers intense emotion is not inherently in praise or worship of a creator. Humanity just does it cuz reasons.
Jews didn't screw up our music and make it Satanic and degenerate
youtube.com
wew lad
Look a dead body and tell me if you feel anything from it.
read up on NDEs chap
>I say yes because the alternative is to assume I am not in control
You're not in control though. you're easily manipulated by external influences.
>if you have free will, why isn't your life a lot better?
>"abnegating" is not a word retard. no excuse for that kind of asshatery in the day of the internet
>has free will...makes up retarded sounding words
Good god we should make anyone outside the academy attempting philosophy subject to hudud laws
the self consciousness you're describing is basically the ego.
there is the awareness thats is you in each present moment, and everything else is your ego, your name, job, interests.
like creating a character in a video game you can create yourself
you can be joe from california, of move and change names and be tim from new york
>abnegate isn't a word
>Gerunds do not exist
>simply Googling "abnegate" proves it's real + offers a definition
>literally has the audacity to call someone else retarded
Your post is very accurate. I would only add one point.
The explanation of "just cause" can go deeper in some cases. If we die, it all goes black, and we serve no purpose, that's not deeper. That's basically chaotic non-purpose based on randomness with no reason. We'd be wasting our energy for literally no reason.
However as your other example is that maybe an entity chose to create sentient life(I do not believe this but it's a good example). So why did it do this? Just cause? Maybe.
But also maybe to watch our species grow, evolve, study the universe, try things, basically experience something rather than nothing. That's a valid reason beyond "just cause" so there is room for alternate answers... but none of us really know of course.
Oh and some people say the smallest piece of the universe is not a particle but a wave. If it is a wave function that collapses based on probabilities I wouldn't ask "why"... I'd say "oh that kinda makes sense".
I'd say we're most likely complex robots.
But i'd like to imagine there being a soul, gives life more meaning.
You cannot know whether anyone else has free will or consciousness as you do. The illusion could be there.
Why are there so many braindead people who are hellbent on liberal delusion and the destruction of society?
Perhaps I should make it "better" by engaging in degeneracy and/or corruption to get ahead.
Read God's Debris and The Religion War by picrelated. He covers this.