"Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance...

> "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is [a sanitation condor] which would be inadmissible."[1]

What did Aleksandr Dugin mean by this?

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Russia cant exist without Ukraine as a part of it. Dugin wants to recreate Russia. Therefore he proclaims that Ukraine should not exist as an independed country

"no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness"

This applies to Canada as well

this applies to every country thrown into existence after the 1918. sovereignty is a privilege gained through conquest, not a handout granted by international treaties.

Reminds me of another commenwealth country

But what threat does an independent Ukraine actually hold against Russia?

Or is it just "huh heritage"?

You do not understand, and unless you are russian/belorussian/ukrainian you probably never will.

There is this term popular in America "popular mandate". I.E. the fact that ruler is implementing policies that people want. There was once a term in china "Mandate of Heaven" I.E. the ruler is doing god's work. So does russia has a mandate. If there is a term for it, I can't remember it off top of my head. Call it "Historical mandate" or "Imperial mandate" or whatever the hell you like. If moskow is not closely aligned with kiev it loses legitimacy in the eyes of russian people. The only exception to that is if kremlin is actively working to change that. How it does so, be it diplomacy, war, economics, is utterly irrelevant.

he's absolutely correct

So the most popular mandate would be recreating the empire's old borders ?

It's not about borders, that's just plain old revanshism and tho it is present, it is not important when it comes to RF-UA relationship. It's about Kiev. With georgia or baltics politicians may want to control them, and people wouldn't mind being closer to them and or "making russia great again". But it is not the case with Ukraine.

Understand that The very name of the country has no meaning without kiev in it. It requires cultural context to appreciate how important this is. To make it abundantly clear:
People say that WW3 will happen because of baltics, or Syria, or NK or some other shithole noone cares about. But reality is, if russia will start WW3, it will be over ukraine. Because westerners truly can't grasp just how important Kiev is to russian identity and Legitimacy of kremlin.

Can someone find and post the beatiful quote on Ukraine of that genius Roman Dmowski?

Ukraine is a buffer country between the EU and Russia. If it wants to survive and prevent war, it must remain neutral. To join the EU is the same as to declare war on Russia as a whole.

Trade, no nationbuilding should be the goal.

It is an artificial political nation with no historical or ethnic basis.
And nowadays, as we can see, it has no economical means of sustainability.
Can't wait for NS II and Russian cargo port expansion.
Bypassing the Butthurt belt and robbing them of their income from Russian gas, oil and cargo transit would go a long way.
Ukraine is a joke. They blockade the People's Republics, then import the same coal through the Russian intermediary. They are supposedly at war with Russia, yet Russia is still their biggest economic partner and has the largest diaspora. Also, all Russians with surnames ending with -ko and -uk are descended from Ukraine.

To be honest, Ukraine made a idiotic move of a century when they gave middle finger to Russia. Economically, culturally they will always be closer to Russia than America or European Union.

I was honestly sad when I saw whole shit unfolding, because the West teased Ukraine with promises and when Ukraine bought that shit and went against Russia, European Union and America threw Ukraine under bus.

"There is no human power capable of hindering this, so that when it is detached from Russia and transformed into an independent state, Ukraine will become a gathering of the world's swindlers, who are very cramped today in their own countries, capitalists and capital seekers, industry organizers, technicians and merchants, speculators and schemers. The Germans, the French, the Belgians, Italians, Americans and Americans would hurry to help local or nearby Russians, Poles, Armenians, Greeks, and finally the most numerous and important of all Jews. There would be a whole League of Nations here ...
Ukraine would become an ulcer on the body of Europe; People sing about cultural, healthy and national Ukrainian productions, they take ownership of the state, they will find that they prefer property, commercial law, rapid progression and decay.
One who assumes that in the geographical position of Ukraine and its area, in the state of the Ukrainian element, its spiritual and material resources, and finally in the role of the Ukrainian question in the present economic and political world, thinks otherwise – has not an ounce of imagination.
The Ukrainian issue has various advocates, both in Ukraine itself and abroad. Among the last ones in particular are many who know what they are doing. There are, however, those who resolve this issue by separating Ukraine from Russia, they themselves are very idyllic. The naive ones would do best to keep their hands away from Ukraine."
Roman Dmowski

Heh, glad to see another Croat who does not go ballistic with hate on Russia. How do you feel about Pan-Slavism but without all leftist socialist crap?

I mean, we Croats by geopolitics or economy are not bound to Russia but Ukraine sure is.

But Ukraine pretty much hates Russia now. What was the point? Kiev is just getting closer and closer to the West instead of Russia.

Thing is, we are the only people to ever own this continent.

Who do we hand it over to?

A long, plain ass border with Russia, that's the threat. Can't risk the West using Ukraine as a base for a potential invasion.

Dont you Get it ?? It Just like you bosnia and Serbia :( america try to do the same to us so we become weak and hate our on blood look at me i am immigrant now with out a country :(

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bmDQcy1BkL8

>Ruski voz
>Russian train

>Rip jugoslavia (secend ussr) thet name thet music thet Movies thet girls thet cigani never forget fucking americans russian Need to help to north Korea to fuck americans and nuke Them all

New jugoslavia whan?? Can russia join?? toghter lets fuck Nato and take Kosovo back killing turks??

>gained through conquest
Ironically Russia has it's origins in Byzantine giving the tsar some land purely out of disinterest in Siberia.

Thank you Poland bro, the ancestral homeland of all Slavs, even Russian ones

Do we really look like we care what do they think?

Guess.

Pan-Slavism is a cancerous and dangerous meme, but not as evil and underhanded as all 3 incarnations of Yugoslavism, pushed by Habsburgs/Catholic Church first, then British and Freemasonry and finally the modern Globalist "west Balkan" and "region".

Ideally, Serbs and Croats would first annihilate the artificial and invented political nations around them. Likewise, Russians of all three stocks should restore the original Russia of 3 pieces.
You can't have Slavic Union with Pope and Catholic Church, Globalists, Jews and Neocons running amok.

Russia will never be invaded again, they have nukes now. Why are Russians so paranoid about being invaded by Western Europe? Yeah it happened with France and Germany but that's every European country, France and Germany themselves invaded each other over and over and they're not autistic about borders and territory as Russia is.

So you keep them locked up in their rooms like young kids who rebel all the time and hate their parents?

They're gonna eventually climb out that window and join the Western world. If you just want their territory you have to do massive depopulaton efforts.

>But Ukraine pretty much hates Russia now.
Current government, nationalists and idealists hate russia now. They also hated it before 2014. And they will hate it for as long as they breathe. This is not new. Give it a decade and it will flip.
>What was the point?
To show them that they made a mistake. To destroy Kiev's own legitimacy. To humiliate the west by showing just how little it will actually do against russia. To appease calls for war from population. To render their standards of living so low that if the army invades it would be welcomed instead of opposed. Take your pick.
>Kiev is just getting closer and closer to the West instead of Russia.
Yes, kiev also has lover approval ratings today than it did under Yanukovich - 11% vs 14%. Let that sink. Also level of euroscepticism is escalating, and the idealists are leaving in droves to poland, thus reducing possible future resistance to russian actions, be they diplomatic or military.

...

Because no one had accumulated 600 000 United Europeans (Napoleon), or 1+ million (Reich + AH) or 3.2 million (Barbarossa) to invade another European country at the time.
The scale of devastation the historical Russians suffered under Mongol, Tatar, Nogai, Lithuanian, Polish and Western invasions and rule made them collectivist and paranoid.

they are on to us moshe we need to escape

>Russia will never be invaded again, they have nukes now.
An invasion is not a guarantee of a full-scale nuclear war. Besides, you are consistently improving your missile shields. Now they have a 50% failure rate, in 30 years it might be 100%. This is geopolitics, not about something that might happens tomorrow or in a few months.
> Why are Russians so paranoid about being invaded by Western Europe?
Cause we've suffered major invasions at least once every century for many years. Germans, French, Swedes, Poles, the list goes on.
>Yeah it happened with France and Germany but that's every European country, France and Germany themselves invaded each other over and over and they're not autistic about borders and territory as Russia is.
Because they have a strong alliance now, and a patronage of the US. Those things do neuter the aggressive pursuit of geopolitical goals. In the 90s, we were given no quarter, no helping hand, there is zero reason to trust the West now. Now watch the EU unravel in a couple of decades and the European states returning to same same old rearmament and saber rattling.

you have a few peasant uprisings to deal with there

There are NATO military bases on every single one of your borders except for Belarus and Ukraine.
>I'd be scared too Ivan Ivanovich.

I shill for Russia so much that 9/10 times I played as Muscovy only.

Everybody who takes him seriously is genuinely retarded.

The nukes aren't a panacea, but the extreme measure, the last possible resort. And more likely, the number of nukes we currently have deployed is not enough to guaranteedly destroy the possible agressor countries and their allies.

>Why are Russians so paranoid about being invaded by Western Europe?

Because Europeans have a bad habit to gather up and invade us every 50-100 years.

Modern military estimate is that to conquer Russia and hold territory (successfully fight partisans) you would need 13 million soldiers.

It just seems absurd to me. American politicians here get a lot of flak for thinking the Cold War never ended and being aggressive with Russia but Russia itself is not innocent of Cold War revitalism either, with this buffer zone mentality against the West. Historically they fought against Mongols who were united with Chinese, and even fought the Chinese directly in some border skirmishes, but they have no buffer zones or troop buildup near China.

They get upset over our missile shields in Poland but really the missile shield is defensive, and likely won't do anything at all if Russia decides to launch ballistic missiles. They're acting like it's the Cuban missile crisis and they make comparisons to that, but we didn't have ICBMs pointed at them off the coast of Norway.

What happens if all the missile shields are gone anyway? They'll still be autistic about buffer zones, it won't change a thing. Even if NATO fully appeases them and makes them join (pipe dream scenario) they'll still be paranoid, but that paranoia won't get them anywhere. I'm not saying they have to suck the dick of the West, they can still do their own thing, but it amazes me how they think they're gonna be attacked at any given time by a bunch of EU countries.

Nah, there are no NATO bases in Central Asia as far as I'm aware. Finland, China, Azerbaijan also don't have any. But it is uncomfortable.

DEATH TO SO CALLED WHITE PEOPLE

Muscovy, Brandenburg, Hussite Bohemia and Serbia are the most fun starts.

abos

The Ukraine is Russia. If the Ukraine and Russia are seperate, neither of them are legitimate states. Same goes for Belarus, although currently Belarus is de facto a Russian puppet. In the history of the East Slavs, the Russians, Kiev and Moscow are the focci of everything it means to be Russian. Russian history, Russian culture, Russian language etc is in those two cities.

Holy fucking shit what is this?
It does not exist yet clearly it is here.

ABM shield is an offensive tool, not defensive.
Tipping the MAD in favour of one side and maximising the damage of first strike of your side while minimizing the damage of enemy's first strike is everything.
They dealt with Asiatic hordes, that is what fueled their expansion to Siberia and Caucasus, gaining natural barriers and distance as defence. On the western border, you can strike from current Ukrainian border right at Moscow through relatively easy terrain. They don't have strategic depth.

>Cause we've suffered major invasions at least once every century for many years. Germans, French, Swedes, Poles, the list goes on.

So have they. In fact, they've also undergone civil wars which your country has too. What makes you different?

>Because they have a strong alliance now, and a patronage of the US.

Russia has a strong alliance with China and Iran. EU will never invade Russia even if the US backs it. US is the only country with the power to invade Russia and they'll never do it, ever. It's good for the military factories, both yours and mine, to drum up support that we must have our technologies best in the world, the other guy might take us over otherwise. But it will never happen. Even if you think the US is some crazy schizophrenic regime changers who have the idea of taking down Putin because he hates gay people - Russia is too powerful, and the US has no interest in invading it.

I actually prefer novgorod. That thing is absurdly OP when it gets rolling. Tho truly rissian thing to do is to play byz imo.

Look, you asked a question, it was answered in detail and explained to you step by step. What more d you want? We don't think we are gonna be attacked tommorow. We just have a long memory and a long view. EU might become a beautiful technocratic paradise, or it might crash and burn due to the lack of responsibility to electorate. US might maintin it's hegemony or it might tear itself apart due to absurdly divisive poitics. We do what is best for us, that's it, the rest of the world can do what it will, and so will we.

Joining NATO and EU was attempted, we were happy to play second fiddle in exchange for some concessions. We were told to fuck off. So we did.

What mods should I use for another playthrough of call of pripyat?

Kárpátalja back plz kthx

Kiev is a meme city. Was relevant and capital for less than 150 years. It was besieged and sacked by several warring Russian medieval Rurikid princes. "Kievan Rus" is a meme and modern nonsense built upon 18th and 19th century Imperial Russian historical revisionism but taken over for opposite purpose.
Moscow rose to prominence at the very end of Middle Ages.
Rus' = Ruthenia = Ros = Rosskaya zemlya in different languages (English, Latin, Greek, Slavic)

CK2 is broken ever since they made rebellions/factions start a new rebellion every 6 months for "lower crown authority" or "XXX for king"

Seriously, every new ruler has to deal with 15+ rebellions over 10 years before things settle down. Game is unplayable.

it's an anomaly (obviously)

This would be the case if Russia had 50 nukes like France or something but they have way more nukes than us, thousands. Missile shields won't do much to prevent it. MAD ensures whoever does the first strike gets nuked back - it doesn't matter if only 599 out of 650 nukes land, the country who launched them is getting nuked regardless.

>gaining natural barriers and distance as defence

That makes sense, Siberia is basically a giant Ukraine for them in the sense that it's a buffer zone.

Russia actually has no alliance with either Iran or China, they just cooperate out of necessity.
Upper Iranian classes are pro-US, Russia and Persia/Iran have been historical rivals, and Chinese are deeply interconnected with Western economy.

>So have they. In fact, they've also undergone civil wars which your country has too. What makes you different?
Nothing, and, like I said, eventually Europe will face its divide once again.
>Russia has a strong alliance with China and Iran.
We don't have a strong alliance with China, and Iran is too far away to care. Besides, if Chinese would want a piece of Russia, they won't pursue it militarily like the West does, they'll just flood us with their people and demand representation eventually. They are doing this now to subjugate Tibet.
>EU will never invade Russia even if the US backs it. US is the only country with the power to invade Russia and they'll never do it, ever. It's good for the military factories, both yours and mine, to drum up support that we must have our technologies best in the world, the other guy might take us over otherwise. But it will never happen. Even if you think the US is some crazy schizophrenic regime changers who have the idea of taking down Putin because he hates gay people - Russia is too powerful, and the US has no interest in invading it.
I can only say that geopolitics are about capabilities, not intent. Now you can't imagine an invasion, eventually they will come up with a reason for one. Gotta be prepared for that time. If we were friendly with the West, that would be another case, but alas.

>''no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import''

>flag

>Kiev is a meme
Pepe is a meme too. And yet it managed to get a greedy narcissistic billionare to get elected "leader of the free world"

Saying something is a meme is in no way makes it unimportant.

Git gud. No seriously, just pay closer attention to vassal's desires and fulfil them. Running a good eugenics program helps too.

This "historical mandate" is a new thing for me, then again im fingolian and was taught from child that ruskies=pure evil etc. Without any clarification to their actions. Do Russians have any similar interests in winland?

No, as I said, it's uniquely moskow-kiev-minsk thing.

The rest of lost territories is pure revanchism and has very little support either among people or in government.

Finland is our best "look we can totally live in peace with neighbours" card. Losing it for more cold as fuck land with hostile population serves no one. If anything your government is more hostile to us due to USSRussia meme than Kremlin is to you.

>Do Russians have any similar interests in winland?
Nobody cares about you as long as you stay out of NATO

>CK2 Eugenics

>Rurik + that Finngolian Genius lowborn
>kill off the Quick bastard first son in battle or some other way
>make sure the Genius son inherits
>raid around the world to obtain genius concubines and wifes for your heir
>soon your realm is filled with Quick and Genius Norse Russian Rurikids, once you go Feudal your Druzhina Heavy infantry simply slaughters nomads

Its not just russia its all of us

America englos franch germania scandinavia jews want us to fight (slavs) to death just like Balkan War( jugo )and whan we all death or ready to die or be weak they will come us the good guys (NATO)And nuke the winers (russia ports of east Europa like Serbia whan they take Kosowo just like they bombed jugoslavia for 100 days And will be remember us the winers in the war just like ww2 (evrey one think fat america win in thet war but fat america joind whan they know ussr will win And take all of germania And Berlin so they joind hitler killed himself in his bunker after lol

Death to the west And all of Its pepole (control by jews)

Only glory to the east And its pepole (slavs) (not control by any one do what they want to do )

Russian need to make a union with all the countrys thet hate america plus the Arabic World give them nukes And make them stronger

I hoph Putin will help north Korea to siegh all of Korea

Fuck tramp fuck You america fuck You englos

I hoph Its gona be new vitnam ;) for americans i hoph russia will sall wapens to Korea ;) to kill americans just like in old time

I hoph we gona see new neme of North Korea the land of the samurais with harakiri on americans :)

I'm not asking why Russia isn't sucking our dick, joining our hegemony, being our friendly friends where its all flowers and roses.

I'm asking why you still think the world is out to invade you like it's still Cold War, when you know nothing will happen. Why do you see the US and the West as some kind of global North Korea who will nuke you the second you put your guard down?

The West doesn't care about Russia at the most, at the least it is alarmed by it because of its Cold War posturing which I'm sure you think is defensive and that Russian jets wouldn't scramble by American and European borders if those pesky westerners didn't threat to nuke us all the time.

You hate the outside world, great, you don't trust it, great, but stop thinking you're very existence is a threat. America doesn't think that when you fly by Alaska or develop a new nuke or show off your S-400 or whatever. Your country has the capability to completely destroy America yet we're not paranoid about you.

I'm saying it's just dumb to think all Russian hostility to the West is reactionary, your politicians fuel it just as much as ours fuel the Cold War sentiment.

>The West doesn't care about Russia at the most
Why does NATO exists then?

What about Georgia? Kind of complex with Abkhazia and South Ossetia isn't it? I mean, who do they really belong to>

NATO exist because the fucking burgers eater wants to control everything.

Only when America has broken Russia up will it be able to complete white genocide of europe

>world is out to invade you like it's still Cold War
Have you seen american news lately? Listened to american diplomats/politicians? I swear they talk about russia more than they talk about america. You have troops ON OUR BORDER.

>dumb to think all Russian hostility to the West is reactionary
We demilitarised and essentially disbanded the army in the interests of piece and cooperation. You expanded nato to our border. Learn some history, please.


Are you a troll or just retarded?

Russiabris n this thread, I MUST have a basic gestalt in Dugin. I have two friends in two different graduate Russian studies programs here in the US and Dugin is seen as THE window into Russian geopolitical intentions.

Is he actually irrelevant?

Consider yourself lucky. they have their fat troops INSIDE our border

>Is he actually irrelevant?
No

I agree, our government is more hostile in mind towards you guys. Its kinda laughable how biased our media is of you guys.

He is either usually overestimated or underestimated. He is the most influential writer on Russian geopolitics, but that isn't saying a whole lot because not many Russians write on geopolitics at all. He does not advise Putin, only people who are under Putin, like the DUMA chief. in short, not a rasputin figure. more of a Russian bill kristol

"Call of Pripyat Complete" - if you want to play an improved version of the original game,
Misery 2.1.2 if you want hardcore, survival and sadomasochism,
SGM 2.2 or "Call of Chernobyl" if you want fun,
"The path in the mist" or "The spatial anomaly" if you want an interesting plot.


Shitty mods full of bugs like GLADIATOR 2, Frozen zone, SZM made by underage faggots are not worth playing.

That was just an opportunity to undermine georgia and Saakasvilly. It was only done because they tried to join NATO and because it was easy. Russia has a very good structure for countries to exist within the federation. Some oblasts have their own persident and parlament and shit. Meanwhile "Georgia for Georgians" Backfired on the moron in charge of Georgia. That is why "Russia for Russians" is the most heavily suppressed and least supported domestic movement.

>Is he actually irrelevant?
No. He is like Nigel Farage, except less relevant. A lot of people outside pay attention, noone inside gives a fuck. I learned his name in english before I did in russian, and I follow politics.

But he advises Konstantin Malofeev, who runs the biggest non-profit in Russia

What does this image show exactly?

Ged oud of here sdalger

So Dugin is influential enough to be worthy of entire Western university Russian Studies departments studying his views?

So he does, and Alex Jones advises donald trump. It does not mean his word has any weights outside of a few lunatics who like him.

I hope you are trolling with that naïve attitude and straight-from-disney understanding of the world.

Probably going with misery because im such a hardcore autist.

Woah, what about jewland?

> "Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast"

karelia and kola should be absorded into finland

He had this grad vision of Russia ruling the whole Eurasia or something and spent decades of his life pushing it. Now in reality instead of expanding like glorious conquerors they can't even hold on to what they had a few years ago - Ukraine. Dugin is just trying to wish it all away away with some weird mantras that "this cannot happen", "we must not allow it" etc. Ideologues tend to do that,

tl;dr Dugin is having a rage fit and is in denial about Russia's actual capabilities.

>Git gud. No seriously, just pay closer attention to vassal's desires and fulfil them. Running a good eugenics program helps too.
Eugenics gets a lot harder since you can't plot to kill your sons any more

CK2 got PC

>what they had a few years ago - Ukraine
It's a bit of a misconception that there was ever russian control over ukraine after 90s.

We sure meddle in their poliics, but so does everyone.

Just google the number of literal brawls in parliament over whether or not Russia should haev presence in Crimea. The only time we were close to uniting with them was when Yanuk was about to sign agreement with EEU. And we all know how that went.

Not defending dugin - the man is a clown - just pointing out something that is often taken for granted by westerners while being utterly untrue.

I am one of those weird people that land dynasty members and runs elective monarchy.

>"Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning
without ukraine russia is fucked. ukraine is a buffer that wears down the enemy before it reaches moscow.
if ukraine joins nato then nato troops will be on the russian border.
he's just trying to not give a fuck or he's dumb.

I am from ukraine.

Nobody likes you Ivan. Go home.

PS: ukrainians I've interacted with all spoke ukrainian and displayed pride in their culture.

They are bunch of niggers, completely with "we wuz RUS and shieeet".
Take the worst from Russians, Turks, Poles, Jews, mix it up and amplify by 11, add the redneck-tier mentality and average Ukrainian will be born.

Though Dugin and many others are retarded and consider Ukraine sort of a "brother".

>complete

Убeй ceбя.

Hes projecting since all of those things apply to Russia.

I'm west Ukrainian

Do you really think people are stronger when they're divided?

I actually supported a euro Ukraine initially but if you take a good look at Europe and what it is now then you will stop supporting such a dumb idea.

EU is collapsing and thousands of fresh niggers are pouring it.

EU is the last thing I want for Ukraine

Basically, the Ukraine is your version of our Southern Secessionists, expect they actually got independence?

Dont listen to the fucking retards. Ukraine is split because of what happened in ww2. Some people are nationalists, some are commie faggots who want the soviet union back. This goes back to what putincucks have always ignored, Dugin and Putin work every day to restore the soviet union.

something like that, yes.