Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said. marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
From a communist perspective, why should niggers not be genocided?
Andrew Cruz
COMRADES COMMUNIST REVOLUTION HAPPENING NOW COMRADES COMMUNIST REVOLUTION HAPPENING NOW COMRADES COMMUNIST REVOLUTION HAPPENING NOW
Nathan Peterson
How's Venezuela doing???
Lincoln Evans
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Ryder Miller
Venezuela is currently as if someone who browses leftypol got the chance of running an entire country. Maduro is such a devout marxist he can't make three phrases without using the word "compañero"(comrade). You are a delusional idiot if you think "it wasn't true socialism" just because Venezuela didn't become a magical utopia. Another socialist got to power, another country got destroyed.
David Thomas
I'm not really a socialist, and I don't like Chavez and Maduro. I think they were thugs who used the term socialism to take over their country.
Levi Hill
>give me your redpills /leftypol/ Specifically, the work you do is always worth more than what you are paid, because the capitalist can sell whatever it is you produce for more than you were paid in wages. The productive forces of our society are controlled by a tiny elite instead of by the people, so what ends up happening is that millions of proles sweat their lives away while the porky bastards windsurf in Hawaii. To put it in terms you might be more familiar with, capitalists are the ultimate welfare queens. >my stance on hatred of jews and niggers will never change. To say that your position on any topic will never change is to declare yourself to be beyond reason. That said, those "jews" and "evil niggers" are your natural allies regardless of what you think about them, because they are being exploited just like you are. The leftist position on racism is as much about pragmatism as it is about a commitment to equality.
The basic gist is that capitalism is inherintly broken. Companies want to make as much money as possible which means paying works the smallest amount possible. Eventually workers can't afford to buy things, meaning the whole system collapses. Currently with automation we are going to see a huge loss of jobs that will make the concept of full employment obsolete - so who is going to buy things? Communism isn't some grand fucking conspiracy about race or western civilization - its just a question of economics.
Jackson Williams
And I thought mudshits reached hard when trying to prove how much more benevolent they are then anybody else, WEW >Korean war started by US (it wasn't) >Cigarettes >WW2 >Dat high death toll on the first nations and slave trade >Implying socialist policies aren't what caused all that child famine post cold war >All those third world warlord and Islamic regimes/militancies >Fascism is capitalist And so much more >implying
Julian Allen
>literally 6000 gorillion
Landon Moore
They are marxists shitheads that love socialism and communism, rejected individualism, and tried to apply their delusional utopianism the best way they could. Whether you fucking want it or not.
Same for North Korea, same for the USSR, same for Vietnam, same for Cambodia, same for China, same for literally every nation that declared itself communist.
Grayson Morgan
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Jose Cruz
>To say that your position on any topic will never change is to declare yourself to be beyond reason. Will your position on communism ever change? What specific and objective ideas can be refuted in order for me to change your opinion?
Hunter Edwards
The only type of socialism that works is National Socialism
Justin Turner
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Jaxson Hall
Can you prove to me you are not beyond reasoning comrade? What are the objective, non-vague ideas that if refuted, would make you change your opinion?
Matthew Williams
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Aaron Gutierrez
I know the commie chart is retarded for blaming all these things on capitalism and these commies know its retarded themself but don't give a shit because they don't really have any arguments in favour of communism and just resort to spamming missinformation, revisionism and delusions, but claiming the US isn't responsible for the Korean war is just as retarded.
Jeremiah Gomez
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Landon Kelly
Hey comrade, it seems you didn't read my post, so I'll ask again: Can you prove to me you are not beyond reasoning comrade? What are the objective, non-vague ideas that if refuted, would make you change your opinion?
Gavin Bell
Liquidate the bourgeoisie.
Carter Smith
Hey comrade, I think you missed my post; I'm interested in talking about your beliefs in communism. What are the objective, non-vague ideas that if refuted, would make you change your opinion?
Nathan Allen
>Fresh out of WW2 and the victory of the PRC, commies make the opening moves. >Last minute intervention by UN is what saves the South. Sorry am I missing the Commie false-flag that justified their war?
Eli Miller
Communism doesn't work
Zachary Myers
Has communism been memed into normie culture?
Sebastian Fisher
"Modern Marxist" is not even the term for that shit, most of that SJW crap comes from openly postmodernist or post-Marxist currents.
Venezuela is not a socialist paradise nor does it wish to be, at best it is the result of a populist movement led by Chávez that installed a subsidiary welfare state. A true socialist state is managed by workers at the base level and not by some bureaucrats with personal interests. Refer to pic related.
>Hurr durr, average low wage workers didn't magically developed entrepreneurial and management skills to replace all the real entrepreneurs we bullied out of the country, so it was not true socialism >socialist policies from the socialist leader from the socialist party failed predictably >that means it wasn't true socialism Kill yourself Texas. If they had the same intelligence capabilities and importance in society as business owners, they would be business owners, not low wage workers. People aren't all equal, the average person is barely literate and are not able to organize their workplace as efficiently as intelligent entrepreneurs. If workers had more profitable ideas and were better at running enterprises than current owners, then they would already be doing so. Your retarded commie bullshit is paradoxical and nonsensical.
Oliver Bailey
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Jonathan Cook
Aren't post-industrual societies way past the theory of labor alienation?
Bentley Rivera
By the way, Maduro is currently arming the left wing population, Maduro is just as much of a believer in "non-bureaucratic" socialism as you are. You are just complete fucking denial.
Look at Venezuela, it's exactly what would happen if an idiot like you got the chance of running a country.
Nathan Gomez
fixed
Matthew Peterson
WE ARE THE BRAVE WARRIORS OF LENIN!
Ethan Jenkins
Value is an intersubjective quantity that varies from person to person based on desirability, hence why marketing and branding are considered very important for businesses to raise a consumer's desire to own the offered product and the amount of value they project onto it. One man's trash is another man's treasure, as they say.
Your labour's value is as subjective as the object it produces, and since neither of them have a fixed value it's completely legitimate that if the object produced is properly marketed it will be worth more than your labour.
Not that you'd know, what with ancoms being chronically unemployed.
Camden Martin
WE DO NOT FORGET!!
Christian Martin
WE DO NOT FORGIVE!
Jose Peterson
>theory of value >doesn't explain how to create value >based on Adam Smith's theory of value >which was rejected by the academia over 100 years ago What did communists mean by this?
Joshua Torres
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Thomas Torres
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Jonathan White
Well Said.
Heil Spencer.
Caleb Morris
Explain how fascism isn't capitalist. When an economic collapse happens due to Capitalism's inherent contradictions, one of three things happens. A shift to socialism, Keynesian reformism (but only for the 1st world), or fascism. This is why bankers backed Hitler, because he took the blame away from Capitalism, and aimed it at the Jews.
So where's the spurdo edit? Did the people who post it get banned or did they switch to post the natsoc stuff and cringy commie faggots?
Nathan Nelson
Dialectical materialism and the fundamental contradictions of capitalism for starters. Lol
Brayden Gomez
The social destabilization that led to WWI was the creation of central banks by socialist-like big government proponents, and women's suffrage which make the government more psychopathic and more emotionally manipulative after getting the emotional female demographic as 51% of the voters.
WWII was the result of Bolshevik jews that wanted a world wide government. Hitler wouldn't have gotten to power if it wasn't for the attempt to marxist revolution in Germany to give their land to the Bolsheviks, and even if he did get to power in an alternative timeline, he wouldn't have preemptively attacked Poland to prepare for the advance of the USSR. WWII wouldn't have happened.
Without evil cabals wanting a worldwide government and world wide control on individuals; we would have no wars in the past 100 years.
What you call "fascism", a strong united nation that respects individual freedom, is not an ideology, it's just the response of commie maniacs trying to control them.
Daniel Cook
>objective non-vague ideas >Dialectical materialism and the fundamental contradictions of capitalism Can you be more specific?
Isaiah Young
>When an economic collapse happens due to Capitalism's inherent contradictions Any decade now, I'm sure~
Lucas Wood
semi to decent rare
Leo Perez
>muh labor theory of value You fags should start applying your precious dialectics to your own ideology. If you argue with a capitalist economist and have a good argument with data to back it up (something commies don't have) you stand a good chance of getting them to change their understanding of economics. Their thesis + your antithesis = synthesis This is reflected in different "schools" of economics, New Keynesian, Chicago School, etc. Meanwhile, most commies are still preaching the same tired lines from Das Kapital that they have been for over a century, ignoring drastic changes in our understanding of economics. Despite preaching their Dialectical Materialism as though it was a fundamental rule of the universe alongside gravity and the laws of thermodynamics, they refuse to apply basic dialectical principles to their own ideology. They would rather repeat their mistakes than admit Marx (pbuh) didn't know what he was talking about.
Logan Davis
The National Socialists, during their rule of Germany, never once considered their economic policies as capitalist, nor necessarily socialist, but a third way system. A generous welfare state, strict labour restrictions, corporations private but still at the complete beck and call of the government, and so on. This characterised an economic system that was far from the truly capitalist policies of the western world, but not as far as the planned economy of the USSR.
Henry Thompson
>Socialist-like >Central banks Before we go any further I am going to need you to define socialism.
>Government became more psychopathic and manipulative only after women got suffrage Implying democracy isn't inherently manipulative. >Bolshevik Jews >Wanting a world wide government Good God dude if Jews wanted a world wide government why would they ever Ally with the Bolsheviks? You can't just say the Jews supported everything you don't like. Not to mention, Rosa Luxemburg would NOT have wanted to give land to the Bolsheviks, Luxemburgism is a very different ideology compared to leninism. You're going to have to start citing shit. >Fascists >Respecting individual freedom Top fucking kek man. Instead of watching conspiracy theorist YouTube channels, why not read a book?
Leo Hernandez
How are you going to refute one of the largest aspects of Marxist philosophy, or one of the largest aspects of Marxist economics, if you are calling them objective and vague?
Mason Lewis
>commies make the opening moves.
Read up on U.S. occupation of Korea before the "Korean war" even started.
The situation was simply put a U.S. occupation forces protected and installed U.S. aligneda puppet regime in the South that openly declared intention to invade the North and whipe out the Northern government they didn't recognize, but couldn't due to insufficient forces, while the U.S. in the background cockblocked the North internationally and delegitimized their rule in their UN that was even more of a might makes right farce back then than it is now. The North was pushed into a position by the U.S. where they would be just waiting to be whiped out by an U.S. installed proxy or strike first.
While the U.S. touted unification under a mutual trusteeship as much as the Soviets, the U.S. was actually cockblocking a sovereign state holding the South that was not unlikely to fall into a Soviet block in line with guns hold to their heads. Even their own puppet council ended up with sympathies to the communist. They'd rather have both pawns whipe each other out than a unified non-aligned Korea.
U.S. Jewry back then is no different than the U.S. Jewry today.
Jaxson Lewis
there's "post-marxism", which is a blanket attempt to devise criticisms of capitalism through psychology, feminism, gender studies, and whatever postmodern trend is meming it's way through the academiasphere.
Ayden Robinson
It has in different manners happened once every 5-10 years for the last 200 years, what the fuck are you even on about?
If you are producing without a specific individual in mind for every product, if you are producing for no one, in an anarchic manner, you will eventually over produce. This will make investors less likely to give out loans, which will make yet more business stall, and on and on. The solution being state intervention and regulation, a la Keynes.
Dominic Wright
>Privatizing banks >Not capitalist >Individuals still own the means of production >Not capitalist Having a government doesn't keep it from being capitalist
Josiah Brown
>It has in different manners happened once every 5-10 years for the last 200 years And yet it's bounced back every time, otherwise we'd be socialists or facists right?
Zachary Kelly
>tfw national socialism is also ruined by degenerates
Thomas Mitchell
>Those Jewish, Poles, Russian immigrants that were doing a revolution on Germany totally wanted to keep Germany independent and totally weren't in line with the Bolshevik revolution guise. Fuck off. There's a reason why Germany became anti-semetic, it didn't just happen out of nowhere. Jews started a civil war in Germany. After they lost, they started getting beaten in the streets, that's predictable. I'm not giving an anti-semite message, I'm saying that shit happened for a reason.
WWII was marxist shitting the bed. No marxist cabal of jews trying to make a world wide government = no WWII.
>Implying democracy isn't inherently manipulative. You are a fucking socialist, you want full democracy even on economical decisions, are you saying that socialism is inherently manipulative?
Owen Carter
Like a disease yes, it bounces back, but we want to eradicate it forever.
Lincoln Wilson
Good luck with that, you'll need it.
Incidentally, how goes the job-hunt?
Wyatt Morgan
Actual fascists and even other third way positions (Soc-Dems/Dem-Socs) would disagree with that assessment, but hey ignore the "socialist" part of "national socialism" it's okay I understand if you're uncomfortable with the association to your own fucktarded ideology. Now that's great framing there, yes sir the poor Northern communists were forced to chimp out and invade the south, it's not as if Communism is an inherently expansionist ideology that shortly before that point conquered most of Eurasia or nothing.
Lincoln Reed
Look how when commie retards decide to shit on free speech, destroy universities, and advocate for destructive ideas, all of a sudden "fascists" start to show up in even greater numbers to fight to defend what they believe to be their birthright.
There's no "fascism" as you define without communism. There would be no Pinochet is the politics in Chile was respecting individual freedom, there would be no strong dictatorships in South East Asia if they weren't riddled with communists, there would be no need of a coup on Venezuela without Chavez and Maduro.
If you really dislike this vague definition of fascism, maybe you shouldn't be a commie.
Zachary Robinson
He's been eyeing that secret police position that'll open up once the EUSSR finally federalises.
William Wright
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Gabriel Smith
Yup, because of government intervention. If the market were actually free, capitalism would implode in less than 30 years. This is what is funny about Libertarians, the people who they support and defend, rich businessmen, know that their ideas don't work for them.
Aaron Lee
Dude you legitimately should get off the internet for a while. It's warping your brain. Go for a run, hike in the woods (maybe not, you're in fucking Brazil) or some shit, and come back after about 1 month of limited internet usage, you'll be amazed at how your perception changes and how much more self-aware you are.
Jordan Hernandez
Soc-dems and dem-socs don't achieve anything though. Socialism can only be achieved through violent revolution. And explain HOW the Nazis were socialist, don't just point at their name and go "See? Proof!" Because by that logic the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democratic republic.
Hunter Hill
Thankfully, with all this great government intervention, the market only implodes every ten years.
Julian Bailey
Yes, and then the rich get a bunch of Gibs from the government and the working class suffers as opposed to removing the market contradictions altogether and allowing machines to make work pleasurable.
Liam Morgan
Why are 21st century lefties so bad at fighting?
Isaiah Flores
US Antifa is a fucking joke compared to their European counterpart. Especially Greek Antifa
Ayden Flores
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Ian Taylor
That's the type of reply someone gives when the person can't actually make an argument. Yeah, if only I was more self-aware, I would be in favor of a full collectivist society that controls every aspect of my life/s
If only those Germans did that, am I right? Imagine if people in Germany had just stopped using internet so much and just instead decided to embrace a foreign collectivist ideology that started a civil war in their nation, as opposed to backlash into extremist nationalism and starting to beat commies on the streets. Then they would enjoy the glory of communism. Live poorer than the west for 80 years, then collapse along with the USSR; which would basically justify the backlash in the first place.
Evan Price
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Adam Howard
No, if you were more self aware you just wouldn't buy into conspiracy theories and speak exclusively in the mindset and language of Sup Forums. It's just that there's a clear sign this site is affecting your thought process. Here, I'll a tally respond to you.
You obviously don't know much about the German revolution, they were following the ideology of Rosa Luxemburg, who absolutely did not like Lenin. She wrote an article called "Leninism Or Marxism?" As though they are different. Luxemburgists today are still strongly opposed to the Socialism of the USSR. I could go on and on about how there is no fucking way the socialist revolution in Germany would have joined with the Bolsheviks in any manner but trading goods. But it doesn't matter, because you seem to be convinced that rich Jews would even WANT Marxism.
Explain how an ideology which takes all the wealth and power away from the rich, would ever be supported by rich Jews? Jews use CAPITALISM to gain power, for fucks sake.
Logan Nelson
Oh boo hoo a small group of anarchists harass people who speak hatefully, all of a sudden all communists are bad. When the only defense you have for your beliefs is that "I should be allowed to say them!" Then your beliefs themselves are bad.
Pinochet wasn't a fascist, he was a Neo-liberal. This is why you need to go outside, you're now just assuming things rather than doing research, this is what Sup Forums does because it is an anonymous board, there is no penalty for being wrong, so there is no reason not to make absurd assumptions. Fascism is about race struggle and nationalism, and also a highly authoritarian, and more direct control of the economy.
Alexander James
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Levi Flores
>Oh boo hoo a small group of anarchists harass people who speak hatefully, all of a sudden all communists are bad. It's almost like they think communism has a history of attacking dissenters...
Joseph Richardson
You can even see the shit I'm talking about in your own retarded memes: The only reasons why commies claim the entire planet should be for them is because so far it is the only thing their imagination currently stretches, they would want to rule the entire universe if they could. This is inherited in your philosophy. You are the cause of conflict, not "fascism". There's no "fascist ideology", there's no fascist epistemology. That's why you use the word fascism in the first place, fascism was just a political party from Italy that wanted a mixed economy, not an ideology.
The evil "fascists" wanting to throw you out of a helicopter and people just wanting to be left alone. The real struggle of classes is between individualists and collectivist maniacs.
Camden Walker
We want paradise on Earth and beyond
Jace Cooper
It's almost as if being a treasonous reactionary is a good reason to be executed.
