3,000 years later and religion tards have nothing to say

3,000 years later and religion tards have nothing to say.

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God works in mysterious ways.

121932870 posts later and OP is still a MASSIVE FAGGOT

Boethius answered this in the Consolation of Philosophy (523 AD).

He was sentenced to death for a crime he didn't commit (in fact he thought he was being killed for being Christian). He wrote the Consolation of Philosophy in prison awaiting execution. His conclusion is that bad things happen to good people because we simply can't comprehend God or understand his knowledge. To a human it seems to not make sense.

We don't have a God but are still a religion

TAKE THAT AUTIST

I'm agnostic but without belief in immutable abstract concepts like God- given rights, you don't get long-lasting free societies as humans begin to worship the state as the prime organizer which inevitably gives way to tyranny and misery.

God merely exists just as evil does. He doesn't create it nor does he destroy it.
Evil is made in the heart of man.
God is merely the observer.

Why is he blaming God. Don't have sex with Satan. The woman does it anyways. The man takes on her sin. We fall. We usher Christ. We stay hetero and say fags are wrong. So. We had ONE RULE. Couldn't listen. Maybe we have free will. His adjectives mean nothing. We are the corrupted stubborn defiled assholes. Why does man worship the things he made with his hands but not his own Creator?

God isn't good.God is the source of all things.

God is both good and evil

>We stay hetero and say fags are wrong. So. We had ONE RULE. Couldn't listen
Why does buttsex feel so good then??

typical religious explanation - sheer evasion

>just 'cause, heathen. accept it.

>3,000 years later and religion tards have nothing to say.
they've said plenty of shit about this argument. in fact, so much has been said since this argument was laid out that the problem of evil is often considered the starting point of the discussion of the existence of god

Actually, this is very easily to shut down... Pay attention :

Able and willing are concepts of man.
These concepts don't apply to the infinite.

Do you look at a ruler and asking if it is able and willing? Does it need to be to exist? No, it just simply 'IS'.

Are you willing and able to 'accept' that?
Epicurus ..

Epicurus was a degenerate pederast faggot.

Free Will.

Love cannot exist without free will. God created man with free will because he loves man - an automaton would not benefit from God's love. All God creates is good, and evil, which is made by man, is a contortion of that good.

If God prevents evil, he has to restrict free will.

Good cannot exist if there is no evil, otherwise men are simply robots, and any good they do is programmed rather than chosen.

The entire concept of good, the idea that existence can produce something pure and positive, is only possible if there is a second option to doing good -- evil.

Evil comes from free will which God granted to all humans when creating them in his image. If he stopped evil he would be denying the divine right of Free Will and the judgement that comes from the consequences of your actions on Earth and after Earth.

my ass works in mysterious ways
worship it.

>muh free will

too bad none of you fags are addressing the free will/predestination paradox. read paradise lost.

The universe cannot exist without the capacity for good, and so must exist evil. Its called duality dumb nigger. The creator is nature.

>Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able.
He is willing and able.
>Is he able but not willing?
He is willing and able.
>Is he both able and willing?
Yes, you stupid fuck.
>Then whence cometh evil?
Pride.
>Is he neither able nor willing?
He is both able and willing, you fucking idiot.
>Then why call him God?
Because he is God.

What a fucking joker. Imagine being this stupid and then imagine how much dumber must be the people who are still impressed three millennia later.

it is truly one of the weakest arguments i've seen and i too don't understand why teenagers like OP are so drawn to it. There are so many writings on pride by religious scholars, you'd think they would read one once in a while.

youtube.com/watch?v=UMqka3XgHuw

This is the inevitable conclusion of all religious thinking

>We can't understand it because we're human that's the point lol just accept it

t. actual fucking retards
>GAD WERKS IN MEHSTERIUS WAVES
>if there is no evil there is no good/free will
Then why create evil in the first place? Why do you want to torment your creations? Why do you want to test them? Don't you already know everything? Why do you need to "test" your creations if you already know what will happen?

They are drawn to it because they are uneducated and they have never been trained to think critically. To the uninitiated, it seems like a huge conundrum, and they go through all kinds of lengths trying to "figure it out" when it can be shut down with almost no effort whatsoever. Epicurus has an excuse, because he didn't have a Bible to work with, but man today has no excuse for this kind of mental laziness. Not only do we have a Bible, but we also have over 100 generations of study, interpretation, inspiration, and revelation from the various saints. This question is probably answered in some form in almost every book in the Bible, if not all of them.

why would God create evil in the first place if he wanted to prevent it?
epicurus was a faggot using emotion fueled-bs tactics to compensate for his lack of intelligence in his philosophy

>muh high IQ
kill yourself faggot

Except I didn't use either of those arguments...

>Then why create evil in the first place?
He didn't.
>Why do you want to torment your creations?
He doesn't.
>Why do you want to test them?
So they can know the Truth.
>Don't you already know everything?
He does. Do we?
>Why do you need to "test" your creations if you already know what will happen?
Because you don't know what will happen, and He loves you so much that he forgives all that evil and sin you brought into the world, and tries to save you despite it all.

If God cannot be evil and can only do good things, does that mean he is a robot without free will? If yes, why do you have to worship him?

There is no freewill. Everything is predestined by God who uses evil as a tool. The fedora argument falls apart calling God malevolent when fedorism lacks an objective standard for morality to make moral arguments/claims and can be dismissed as a non-sequitur. This sums up almost every fedora argument - God is a big meanie, checkmate theists!

I've read the Bible. It's not very interesting or intellectually stimulating. Basically just a collection of folk tales not drastically different from those of other cultures.

what's the answer then fuck boy? hur dur read the bible and saints n sheeeit. fucking christnigger faggot.

>God (singular) ???
>Polytheistic Greek ???/
>Comes from a tradition of worshipping flawed and unkind gods
>Questions why greeks worships these unkind gods
>The answer is that if they don't worship them they get their shit pushed in by said gods

Epicurus is a faggot and the people that manipulate what he says to prove a point about a different god altogether are retarded.

Why doesn't He just let bring everyone to heaven?

see:
>I've read the Bible.
Stop lying. I can tell you haven't, because there's only a few "folk tales" in it (by the definition of "folk tale") and all of those have some truth in them.

Basically, only someone who hasn't read it would even bother trying to reduce its importance, or its significance, or even its novelty. There is no other culture that has anything even resembling it. It has greater poetry than perhaps anything ever written. It has unfathomable historical value. It is the most important book ever written by any standard. And it happens to be the word of God.

Evil is a consequence of having a choice and you can't have free will if you don't have choice. Nature isn't evil, it just nature because it dosen't have a choice to be anything else.

We do or at least we think we do and that's really enough.

Who said God(s) had to be omnipotent, or for that matter willing to undue evil?

Epicurus takes a massive leap in reasoning, and the people who use this quote even more so.

Because you would ruin Heaven for all those Heavenly creatures. You have to be made new before you can come into Heaven. If he put you back in the Garden, you'd just eat the fruit all over again.

Sorry fedora, omnipotence doesn't mean can do everything/anything. God can do everything that can be possibly done within his nature. He can't make squared triangles or commit evil nor has zero desire to do so. If you want to claim an imaginary victory of "hah God can't do something", go ahead as it holds no value.

So what if hes omnipotent and malevolent? better do what he fucking says or its eternity in hellfire.

the bible is jew religion plus a few chapters about jesus. you practice a foreign sand nigger religion.

And the only way to be made new is to suffer?

I'm not saying he is not omnipotent, I'm saying he does not have free will.

> Applying human morality & human concepts to a god

Both time & duality are completely human concepts to understand conciousness, do you think god is a fucking floating sky brain conciousness the same as you? Retards.

Show me an evil action that hasn't ended up better. No recent history

Because we have free will. If God took our ability to do evil away, there would be no free will. That's the explanation I've heard that makes the most sense.

>Evil comes from pride
>God knew lucifer would rebel
>does nothing to stop him

He litterally knows everything that's gonna happen. Why create angels in the first place. He doesn't need them? Or maybe he did? Did God create everything for his own pleasure but ignore the suffering that came with his creations
he knew free will was gonna fuck them over.
There's only three logical choices. Incompetence, malevolent, or lack of foresight.

Because he desires to show all of his attributes such as anger, justice, etc.. So he makes people predestined for hellfire which in turn shows his other attributes such as love, mercy, etc. to those who he predestined to be his children. Hence the potter and clay analogy Paul uses to describe it. Those who cry about it not being fair are told tough shit who are you to question God.

But the bible isnt any of the things you just purported because it would be based on personal perception or opinion. Clearly the romans had no problem removing divine scripture. Clearly its not nearly as impressive as you state or historical action would agree with your assessment.

at this point is just a collection of stories that you personally like and hope are based in some form of reality.

wamp wamp

god created man in his image according to the bible.

No
Your ass does one thing
Dictate your posts

Epicurus wasn't a fedora though

>Everything is predestined by god.
So why bother with the charade of life?
>Muh test

>1 post by this ID.
I fucking hate the stupidity on this board. Its called a bait thread. You either ignore it, or sage it.
To answer the question so religious fags can calm down. It's because of freedom. God gave man freedom and let him carve his own path. Your parents don't come in your work to fix your fuck up, right? Same idea.

If you were an actual atheist who understood how horrifying a purely materialist scientific point of view actually is personally and for humanity and not a "lol i'm a proud atheist++ who read all the knockoff marxist dialectic bobo authors" you would be as nervous of a wreck as Nietzche and Lovecraft were.

That's not very benevolent

Why prevent it when your creations can do it for themselves?
You always have the choice to kys and relieve all this suffering.

epicurus didnt say that

Because God is the prime mover. He must create to be. He is the first and ultimate act.

What could I read about the materialist view?

image =/= form imo, we weren't created as deities.

Epicurus wasn't all knowing so how can he understand the actions of a God?

What's there to be nervous about? Eternity of non-existence? Comfy af. I would be a nervous wreck if I knew a deity out there wanted me to burn forever for masturbating.

2 words. (((Free Will)))

It doesn't make sense philosophically nor Biblically. For example, how can you have free will with guaranteed prophecies? No matter what anyone does or chooses, Jesus being crucified and many other prophecies will happen no matter what. People are so desperate for "free will", they even go towards open theism to solve all those problems where God doesn't know the future, prophecies can fail, he can turn evil five minutes from now, etc.. Free will is a luciferian concept and desire of the flesh - to do something independent of God.

That's like saying since you can't turn into a chicken, you don't have free will and are a robot. I doubt anyone accepts your definition of free will

Why does overdosing on heroin feel so good then?

He doesn't want you to burn - that's the point. Hell is by and large a pagan perspective: God's light come judgement is common to all. To some it will be purifying, to others, like those self involved enough to masturbate without repenting, will find it ((((extremely painful)))))

Got an objective standard for morality to make that moral claim or is that just your opinion?

So, you're telling me God NEEDED to have a creation to BE God. Like he had no other choice. Well I guess that would make sense, God wouldn't be God, technically w/o a creation.

Where do you fall in that spectrum?

it's a metaphor for likeness, which covers both.

The knowledge of good and evil, acquired by humanity when they ate the forbidden truth came with the curse of labour - but they also were cursed with the free will to do and think whatever they wish. After all, humanity then could perceive what's good and what's not. Later, everyone will be judged by their actions, as it is written, according to our actions face the understanding of good and evil. Christ came to break this very curse and forgive the sins our free will made.

This means God willingly is restricting Himself to interfere in human affairs, except when people calls for aid with faith, then he'll intervene. So the evil is allowed to roam rampant through earth, but it is essentially moved by humanity itself, and also the influence of demons.

It is wrong to make people evil on purpose and then doom them to an eternity of hellfire because they're evil.

>HUR DURF
>FREE WILL
>CHOOSE TO BE EVIL

Ok, anyone who has posted in this thread up until now, shuts the fuck up.

1. Evil refers to cataclysms and 'acts of god' which humans are unable to control and cause undue suffering

2. Choice is inherently biased, we are animals bound by limited food and space, with chemicals and instincts that create violence to compete with each other. If god is so good and wise, why would he punish creations for being violent when they are in a violent world, and give them violent predispositions?

3. The argument above does not attempt to prove or disprove god. It is a rationale explaining why he believes it is pointless to worship or pay any attention to gods or god. You cannot interact, anticipate or effect them, they are beyond humans, it's best to live a good, simple life and enjoy it.

I prefer Marcus Aurelius to Epicurus.

It isn't a charade. Divine determinism is set up where the means is equally important as the ends. As noted in previous post, it displays all of his attributes along with this world maximizing his glory out of all possible worlds.

If they gained free will by eating the fruit, then how did they eat the fruit in the first place?

the answer is simple
god is not perfect

Except free will is defined by the capability of doing good and evil. Even christians say that. It's your definition.

Not a valid comparison.

It still sounds like terrifying to me.

Because the snake was actually god

God is able, but not willing.

The flaw in Epicurus' argument is that he assumes that if there were a good reason for God allowing evil, humans would know it. There is no logical reason to think this would be the case.

>anthropomorphizing god
what a fucking retard. What would "willing" even mean in the context of an all encompassing force that we call god.

Correction, choice is inherently deterministic, it is not biased due to our environment, it is completely dependent on it

Pleasure without pain is impossible. What a shallow thinker lel

Then they technically had free will before eating the fruit since they disobeyed God.

Why must we know of all of his attributes? And if knowing his attributes is that important, couldn't he show us hypotheticals instead of actually carrying them out and causing pain?

God did not stop Lucifer because he didn't want his creatures to worship him out of fear. God let Satan's rebellion play out as an example of what defying God's law ultimately brings.

>Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent
Wrong. Last I checked we live on Earth not in Heaven

>It is wrong
Not seeing an answer to my question to justify this not being just an opinion. Making an opinion an objective statement is a non-sequitur - dismissed.

>to make people evil on purpose and then doom them to an eternity of hellfire because they're evil.

He makes them evil indirectly. People commit evil directly by choosing to do evil. Yes there are choices in determinism, you choose to do what you desire most. God created you so you would have those desires and do what he wanted to happen.They then get judged by their evil actions and go to hell for them unless they put their faith in Jesus Christ who will forgive their evil acts.

Can't a being with infinite power and wisdom somehow reconcile the two?

>god can only exist if he fits into my personal moral code and runs things the way I expect him to
not even religious but wew lad

He died in 270 BC
How did he think he was being liked for being a Christian? Isn't 300 years a bit premature?

Then you must like getting kicked in the nuts.

That's what you call "natural selection". The weak will perish, and the righteous will be saved. You were given free will, taught the way to life, and you still sin your ass to hell, then maybe you were just a massive cunt to begin with.

youtube.com/watch?v=1UfUI4N3r10

> Evil refers to cataclysms and 'acts of god' which humans are unable to control and cause undue suffering
Funny that no one thinks about how God provide us with good weather and fertile lands, yet everyone is quick to pull the disaster card.
To answer your question, God created something called nature, which has its own laws that work independently and is prone to cataclysms, as our planet was cursed by sin and He won't interfere unless called with faith.
>Choice is inherently biased, we are animals bound by limited food and space, with chemicals and instincts that create violence to compete with each other. If god is so good and wise, why would he punish creations for being violent when they are in a violent world, and give them violent predispositions?
What is law of not the definition of good and evil? The men were cursed when it ate the forbidden fruit, which allowed him to know if what he is doing is good and right, or not. Free will is not biased by the beginning, but the human nature is corrupt due to the curse. Since the original sin, we're condemned to improve our spirit (our divine part - the behemoth, as in job's book) and to control our violent tendencies (our corrupt part, represented by the leviathan).

The old testament proves jesus is a cunt.

Op is an idiot. The question has been answered by minds much more intelligent than that that of Epicurus, OP, or anyone posting, including me.

Just because you do not like the answer and had rather believe your own impulse to stick your cock in other men and take drugs while buying the bullshit your second rate bottom tier Jr College philosophy professor tells you, than actually read the responses by those very smart people; it does not mean that a devastating response to Epicurus' argument does not exist.