Pope Francis

Anyone /Catholic/ believe that the holy spirit chose Pope Francis to open up more discussion regarding traditionalism? I feel as though, while he is quite progressive, its forced the traditionalists to actually react and open up discussion, which I believe will lead to a Pope that is conservative/traditionalist, possibly in 2-3 years (went to Palm Sunday Mass at St. Peter's, Pope Francis looks sickly)

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youtu.be/LmbyWGCwX90
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucian_Pulvermacher
youtube.com/watch?v=Kc0IVYBtJZI
traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/g33ht_Decipher.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=OQKKgNC5EpM
remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2127-apocalypse-now-another-great-sign-rises-in-the-heavens
todayscatholicworld.com/present_crisis_of_the_holy_see_manning.pdf
nocathnocash.com
renewamerica.com/columns/engel/170419
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Have you noticed that progressives won't speak to you unless you're a progressive? We should keep our traditional values and not ponder to liberals, because we'll just get another sjw pope then.

Well i'm talking about how dialogue has opened up in the traditionalist wing of the Catholic Church, i.e. SSPX, etc.

I truly believe the next pope is going to be an uber-conservetive

Well, the Holy Ghost doesn't choose popes.
That said, I believe God is using him to make everyone, who is willing to, realize that he is the logical conclusion of the Second Vatican Council and its disorientation. He will force people to finally take sides.
The true Church, or the ecumenical church of man with the protestants and non-Christians.

>Anyone /Catholic/ believe that the holy spirit chose Pope Francis to open up more discussion regarding traditionalism?

This is actually an interesting perspective.

Oh, I misunderstood what you meant by discussion, I agree, pope Francis really opened eyes for many Catholics who maybe thought that liberal pope is not a bad idea.

>Pope Francis looks sickly
I hope he dies soon. This is a man who is promoting protestant ideals such as allowance of divorce and "remarriage", who is using the Church to promote UN-funded climate change bullshit, who is working with people who are literally leaders in Marxist organizations.

There is either a great schism afoot (like Francis told Der Spiegel that he would do, "split the Church") or a great chastisement coming.

Remember, Scripture tells us that the judgement of God comes first to the Church.

The Holy Spirit doesn't choose; it's the Conclave.

I've drifted away from going to church since he's been pope. Tired of hearing about helping refugees at mass. Probably going to start attending the latin only mass.

That's where you should've been going in the first place, fratre

Ya. Go to the church because of god and jesus regardless of whoever is pope.

Personally a pope in the mold of Pius XIII would be my favorite.

youtu.be/LmbyWGCwX90

>y'all have to experience this though

The pope needs to bring back the Oath Against Modernism and make it mandatory again.

I think he's quite clearly arrogant, but that has worked in the Church's favoure regarding SSPX. Pope Benedict XVI wanted them to return, but he wilted under pressure. Pope Francis is much more 'I do what I want'; which was needed in this regard.

Secondly, he's helped highlight hypocrisy of those who say 'I can't be Catholic because I don't like the Pope'. These people are exactly the same as US liberals who say 'I don't respect the President because I don't like him'. The office does not lose its importance because of the person in it

Honestly curious, whats it with proddies and only Sola Fide? It really confuses me

This, and to be honest some of his homilies do have alot of theological backing such as his Palm Sunday one, which i do admit I wept a little.

>had a confession at St. Peter's for the first time in a year
>renewed my faith and working through my problems (mainly lashing out in anger, and fapping, alot)

>Anyone /Catholic/ believe that the holy spirit chose Pope Francis
no

>Pius XIII
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucian_Pulvermacher

Deserves a bit of background. Fr. Luther struggled with his daily duties, praying the breviary, daily prayers, etc. He would often go almost a full week without saying his daily prayers then feel bad and cram it all in one day.
He struggled with lustful temptations.

While on the toilet (he had bowel problems), he believed he came up with a solution to his problem. Faith alone was all that was required to be justified. He did this because he was unable to control his own passions, and thus gave up. Well, there is no justification for "faith alone" in the entire 1,500 year tradition of the Church (or in Scripture for that matter).

He then set his axe to the Scriptures. He added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28, forcing St. Paul to say "faith alone." He removed 7 books of the Old Testament and the book of James, saying it was an 'Epistle of Straw', because it condemned the notion of faith alone. He then set his axe to the Book of Revelation and the Acts of the Apostles--he removed them. His colleagues then complained by saying under what authority can you remove them? He considered them to be lesser books... but he capitulated and returned them to his canon of Scriptures.

Through Scripture alone, he could support his new doctrine and new religion, albeit an altered Scripture and butchered canon.

He mentions Satan a lot more than Pope Benedict XVI ever did, & that's something many liberals steer away from.

Many, wrongly, judge him on what the media reports. The exact same media that they acknowledge hounded Pope Benedict.

Yes, Pope Francis is more liberal on political issues than I'd like, but he's no more liberal than, for example the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. Although Pope Francis is Pope, he's still an 80 year old man from Argentina. I doubt you'll find many of those who, for example, view Islam as a threat.

Ya I noticed that too, however there are some in the priesthood who are big proponents for LGBT like Cardinal Tagle from the Philippines

This is a great video that has some really good points.

youtube.com/watch?v=Kc0IVYBtJZI

I'd like to believe that, but I don't.

However, I believe the Holy Spirit is working in us trad Catholics.

I don't believe we'll have a traditional pope until we experience a chastisement and a near complete cleaning of the hierarchy.

Have you guys seen this yet?
traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/g33ht_Decipher.htm

>2017
>believing in god
>worse, believing god affects the world
My sides

>the holy spirit chose Pope Francis to open up more discussion regarding traditionalism?
Seems like a struggle of the intellect to come up with that one.

I think it's more like as the world goes increasingly crazy, you more people separating out into groups that thing it's entirely insane and groups that think it's entirely normal.

Fuck this guy. We need a better pope.

>because truth changes with the times
>2+2 used to be 1.5
>2017
>now 2+2 is 4

You have to ask yourself, would you rather have another liberal Pope who is white, or a traditional Catholic who is black. Forget the white nationalism, Catholicism comes first and I support the black guy.

Well of course. If you're referring to Card. Sarah, I would hope there's a better option than him.

i won't a smooth gangsta ass pope.

youtube.com/watch?v=OQKKgNC5EpM

he is the last pope, the false prophet. his peacedoves got eaten by crows, he is known as a big time childdiddler in south america and he supports the replacements of natives by savage raping shitskins. figure it yourself out

We are approaching the 100th anniversary of Fatima, after all.

remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2127-apocalypse-now-another-great-sign-rises-in-the-heavens

There is still much to happen before the antichrist and the end. There will be another pope, but perhaps not in the same disorientation the popes have been in since John XXIII.

Reminder to read Cardinal Manning's lectures (with foreword by Cardinal Newman) "The Present Crisis of the Holy See" and the prophecy of Our Lady of LaSalette.

You will have a much more clear picture of what is to come and how to view the crisis of faith following the Council and in our times.

Oh yeah, he'd be a disater. But that's another good thing about Pope Francis. He undoubtedly has annoyed many of his fellow cardinals. Very, very few came out & backe him after the dubia. So when the same people who pushed for Francis to be elected, push for a liberal like Tagle, many of the Cardinals will be on their guard & revolt against it. God willing

Can you give me a cliffs on that?

>This is actually an interesting perspective.
Agree. We've been complacent.

todayscatholicworld.com/present_crisis_of_the_holy_see_manning.pdf

Cardinal Manning was a prelate at the First Vatican Council which defined papal infallibility. Theologians were concerned about the questions of "what if a heretical pope were to declare some heresy ex cathedra." He and others basically said that it would be null and void, since it was not in continuity with tradition or Scripture and because it was a novelty (not already believed). Some inclined to believe that he would lose his office.

So, in the Present Crisis of the Holy See, he talks about the stirring apostasy even during his time. It stemmed from classical liberalism (which was adopted at the Council); that is, religious "liberty", ecumenism, modernism, and collegiality.

He references Church fathers who say that at times of the end, Rome will throw off its pontiff and return to its ancient paganism (we're basically a neo-pagan society, now). Relativism and subjectivism was the attitude of the pagans.

He expounds on the Scripture (2 Thessalonians 2:7) "For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way" and concludes that it is most likely that "he be taken out of the way" is Christendom (which had been) or the pope (office of papacy).

This can also refer to a pope who has relinquished his authority as supreme pastor of the Church, instead opting to be one with and praised by the world.

Edgy atheist over here

The prophecy of Our Lady of LaSalette was approved by the local Bishop and was recognized by the universal Church.
The message was suppressed for a while because of the incendiary nature of it.

She tells us that Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of antichrist. She doesn't say "THE" antichrist, but that it will harbor the ideals of antichrist. Coupled with Manning's research and the message of Fatima, I believe we have a good picture of the apostasy of the Church.

Like the discussion but let's be clear on a few things:

1) His cohorts surrounded and cut off Benedict and basically placed him under house arrest

2) Against all teaching, tradition and doctrine he campaigned for the job

3) He is an authoritarian leader and a relativist thinker.

4) Look at the latest Knights of Malta news to see how he cannot accept any form of dissent and will run over any tradition or prior teaching to consolidate power.

Traditionalists better get their act together. Here in San Diego we are starting to do it by cutting off the money using Athanasian Currency nocathnocash.com

Germans need to look into their rights as EU citizens regarding transparency in tax collections to know how their Kirchenstauer is being spent

If you cut off the money you cut his basis of power. There are a group of Italian Cardinals that have gone along with him because they have more control over money and property. Part of their deal. Cut off the money (most comes from the German Kirchenstauer and then US collections) the the Italians will turn on him. As an authoritarian he will be without power since ha cannot rely on charm or persuasion. Then we let him do ceremonies until he passes and a new pope is elected.

We have done this. Our diocesan Bishop promotes a group that trains seminarians for the Patriotic Catholic Church of China (commie "catholic" church). Such a shame.

We only give to our pastor who offers the traditional mass.

Anyway, the message of LaSalette was put on the index of forbidden books because of the trepidation it was causing in France. Eventually it was removed, but people were so stirred by this that the Church herself tried to suppress it--even though they acknowledged the apparition was legitimate.

There's more to the message that is worth reading. Talks about the attack on Holy Matrimony, people and clergymen not keeping Sunday holy (such as no buying or selling on Sunday unless absolutely necessary), etc.

Good for you!

bump

He's going to Egypt soon. Anyone think there might be a happening?

I hope there isn't, because it will be used to make him a martyr and fast-track a canonization.
If they can canonize JPII of questionable faith, praying with pagans, saying Ghandi "lives forever" at his funeral, kissing Qur'an, exhorting St. John the Baptist to protect Islam, etc--you can bet they will do the same for Francis.

Questionable faith?
Jesus must have had questionable faith too since he questioned Judaism.
Praying with pagans?
Jesus prayed with beggars, thieves and prostitutes, even washed their feet.

and so on and so on

I doubt they will canonize Francis. Benedict even seems more likely, and people are starting to read into his teachings more and more these days, of which there is a lot to talk about, sadly no one does

Yes, questionable faith. I know you Poles see him as a great pontiff, but he wasn't. All of the modernist heretic Cardinals today were appointed by JPII, including Bergoglio.

You probably aren't old enough to remember his pontificate. I am. I remember him allowing the Buddhists to place a statue of Buddha on top of the tabernacle at Assisi, then having the Franciscans who protested removed from the church. We remember these things.

I remember his elevation of the dignity of man to the status of the Incarnation in his first Urbi et Orbi, and downplaying the Incarnation of Jesus Christ to a mere "special boy". We remember these things.

He was catechized under communist control, so it could be said that he wasn't taught well.

Read Mortalium Animos to see the true Catholic response to Assisi prayer meetings. This was an unprecedented display of apostasy.

>Mortalium Animos

A similar object is aimed at by some, in those matters which concern the New Law promulgated by Christ our Lord. For since they hold it for certain that men destitute of all religious sense are very rarely to be found, they seem to have founded on that belief a hope that the nations, although they differ among themselves in certain religious matters, will without much difficulty come to agree as brethren in professing certain doctrines, which form as it were a common basis of the spiritual life. For which reason conventions, meetings and addresses are frequently arranged by these persons, at which a large number of listeners are present, and at which all without distinction are invited to join in the discussion, both infidels of every kind, and Christians, even those who have unhappily fallen away from Christ or who with obstinacy and pertinacity deny His divine nature and mission. Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little. turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is ALTOGETHER ABANDONING THE DIVINELY REVEALED RELIGION.

Let's see.

He said atheists do not have to believe in God to go to heaven.

He said he cannot judge whether or not homosexuality is a sin.

He said that Jesus literally turned himself into the serpent, that Jesus literally turned himself into the devil, on the cross.

Anyone who knows the Holy Spirit knows that He has nothing whatsoever to do with the Catholic church.

Oh, and because none of you Catholics do any digging into your own foul organization's history, you might want to know how intimately involved he was in the murder of thousands of people during a junta in Argentina.

Granted, the media spun some of that. Let's be honest here.

What he said concerning atheists was not that they could go to heaven, although that was the inclination. He said that atheists are redeemed. Atheists ARE redeemed. We are all redeemed, but not all saved. Christ redeemed mankind on the Cross; that is, he ransomed us away from death. That doesn't mean you're automatically going to heaven--that's a protestant concept: "I don't have to do anything"

He is literally the protestant's pope.

Here is a quote from JPII. Dug this out of the dusty top of my bookshelf.

"In less than four years, the interior situation of the Church has [drastically] changed...Such imminent theologians as Henri de Lubac (heretic), J. Danielou, Y. Congar (heretic), H. Küng (heretic), R. Lombardi (heretic), Karl Rahner (heretic), and others have played an extraordinary role in the work of the preparation (of the Council).
The objective of John XXIII was above all the unity of Christians; giant steps have been made along this road. The Church is persuaded, as never before, that what unites Christians is stronger than what divides them. The yearning for the unity of Christians joins hands with the wish for the unity of all the human race. The new conception of the people of God has replaced the old truth on the possibility of redemption outside the visible bounds of the Church. This premise shows the attitude of the Church towards the other religions, which is this basis for recognizing values which are spiritual, human, and Christian at once, extending to religions such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism....The Church wishes to undertake a dialogue with representatives of these religions. Here Judaism occupies a particular place."
-Wojtyla in Malinski, Mon Ami Karol Wojtyla, p. 189

Here, JPII (before was pontiff) shows his belief in ecumenism and the relativism of truth and the Church.
He praises those who were heretics before the Council, but were "experts" or "periti" at the Council.
He openly speaks of "new truth" and "old truth" as if truth isn't objective and remains constant throughout time--hence his disdain for Aquinas' Scholasticism.
He references the "new interpretation" of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (no salvation outside the Church) which is a footnote inserted by Rahner into Denzinger a bit before the Council. This made it into the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" under his name. It says basically that those "of no fault of their own" can be in the Church without knowing it. Thus he continues on by mentioning these pagan and heathen religions, implicitly telling us that there may be some "anonymous Christians" without knowing they are Christian in these religions.

This is right in line with his theology of universal salvation. In his encyclicals and exhortations, he constantly references the quotation from the Conciliar document Gaudium et Spes: "Christ, the final Adam, by the revelation of the mystery of the Father and His love, fully reveals man to man himself and makes his supreme calling clear" and "For by His incarnation the Son of God has united Himself in some fashion with every man."
Therefore, we are all "saved", regardless of religion.

He was an apostle of heresy.

Bumping for more discussion.

>What caused your conversion or renewal of faith?

>Wrote "On the Jews and their Lies"
Luther did nothing wrong.

>Francis gets beheaded by some Muslim whose feet he is washing
>This makes him a the patron saint of cucks

>grew up protestant, son of pastor
>father and rest of senpai converted Catholic
>worked as exorcist with faculties from local Bishop because of dearth of exorcists following Council
>pic related
>I grew up and left Church, became religious pagan
>delved into paganism for many years
>destroyed my life
>returned to Christ and His Church in mid-late twenties
>found traditional mass

So much this. Anybody pushing for 'ecumenism' is a closet satanist.

>exorcist
wew. How do you learn how to do that?

Fr. Luther really believed the Jews would convert once they heard his new "gospel". He, in fact, modelled some of his theology after the Jews.
Scripture alone is a Judaizing behavior.
He allowed the polygamous marriage of Philip of Hesse saying it wasn't against the law of God to take a second wife (while retaining the first)--because, the Jews did it.

When they rejected him and his new doctrine, he then turned on them.

My father did that. He was studying to be a priest in a monastery in New Orleans (Christ the King) and copied the Roman Rite of Exorcism as a young man. He then left the monastery and left the Church. He became a protestant pastor (because his father wanted him to carry on the tradition). He was the only one in the area that the Bishop knew of that had experience with and had the Roman Rite of Exorcism and had performed exorcisms (as a protestant). In the upside-down world of post-conciliar Church, the Bishop gave him the faculty to perform exorcisms in the name of the Church.

Pope Francis is FALSE PROPHET, he is trying to unify churches to create 1 state religion, which is terrible. Unfortunately he will succeed, cuz as it is said in Bible, The mysterious Babylon will heal from mortal wound

Did the exorcisms work?

Yeah they were successful in every exorcism except one. The woman had some sin that she wouldn't confess, so she was never freed.

He would work with assisting priests and religious sisters who would aid the person and assist in prayer.

I have a couple comical stories though.

So it's a process where the subject of the exorcism has to want it?

Storytime would be neat. It's an unusual area of subject matter that is not often discussed.

Those digits though

Yes definitely. First, the Church sends the person to psychiatrists and doctors to determine if it is a mental issue. 95% of the time it is a mental issue. They have to want it. Very rarely is someone completely possessed where there aren't any moments where they do not have clarity and their free will.

Comical story... A woman in South Louisiana was afflicted with demonic possession. Overweight, lesbian, bull-dyke woman. They were prepping the room, placing relics in the windows and in the doorway. It couldn't be done in a church like it should have been because she was too heavy to move.
Two priests--one older and one younger--my dad, and two nuns. The bed was pulled out away from the wall to be in the middle of the room. The nuns were at the foot of the bed praying while the exorcism began.

When it began the woman began getting violent so they had to restrain her hands. Halfway through a session she ripped from her restraints. The old priest threw holy water on her and commanded the demon to leave. She got up and chased the older priest around the room. The younger priest was chasing the woman throwing holy water on her commanding the demon to leave.

The older priest yells "DAMNIT STOP THROWING HOLY WATER ON HER..YOURE PISSING HER OFF"

He runs out of the doorway, the woman stops at the relic like she hit an invisible wall. The nuns are cracking up.

Anyway, just a funny story. Happened in late 1980's.

So you had the old priest running around the bed with the possessed bull-dyke chasing him with the young priest throwing holy water on the bull-dyke.
Pretty funny. I remember the nuns talking about it when they finished and came over.

That's pretty wild. Things like this always make me wonder why they're so rarely discussed in sort of "mainstream" religious outlets.

Exorcism is a thriving practice within the Church now-a-days. Of course only the traditionally-minded priests are the ones doing it. The neo-liberal modernists generally don't even believe in Satan.

The open practice of satanism, rampant new ageism, Islam, and contraceptive/sodomite activity has exorcists real busy.

Well that's good to hear. I got to a point where I looked back on everything I'd ever heard from church, religious ed, etc., and was shocked to think almost nothing ever was said about even whether or not Satan might exist.

There was brief coverage of temping Jesus at one point. During Easter we confirm we reject Satan and and his works. But other than that it seems like rather a loud silence about what you'd think would be kind of important to talk about.

But he is last pope

Yeah. Another reason why I stopped bringing my family to the New Mass. The readings in the liturgy was changed among other things. Find a good traditional priest that offers the traditional mass, even a priest that offers the traditional mass and the new mass. You will see a great difference in how that priest offers the new mass and what he focuses on in his homily.

The "prophecy" of Malachy is dubious at best. Funny how that is the only purported private revelation that non-Catholics reference and accept as if it is de fide.

>Randy Engel
>renewamerica.com/columns/engel/170419

Engel is the author who wrote "The Rite of Sodomy" exposing the homosexual network in the Church. Her talks are available on youtube and elsewhere. In the above article, she exposes Opus Dei.