Civic Nationalism vs Ethno Nationalism

I don't understand why the white identity is so important as long as the people of a nation are following its laws and not trying to subvert the nation's culture I don't see the problem. Issues like race mixing shouldn't matter as long as the nation is united under one identity. If a refugee comes to a European country and assimilates into the culture by ridding themselves of the customs from their previous country and fully embraces that European country's culture is that still a problem?

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aimlessgromar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/j-1467-9477-2007-00176-x.pdf
msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/
ose.utsc.utoronto.ca/ose/story.php?id=2135
youtube.com/watch?v=5oHLu6HkDHY
phys.org/news/2017-04-infants-racial-bias-members.html
web.archive.org/web/20150209011833/https://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/the-facts-that-need-to-be-explained/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

I don't get it either. I agree with your post

I get that the mass influx of refugees in Europe aren't assimilating but say if they did would it still be an issue?

Shitskins have low IQ, they could care less about wanting to be your countryman. Since without fail immigrants always congregate together in their own communities, their children will call you a stupid whitey and demand something from you and your country. Maybe if you picked up a history book you would understand this is the case 100% of the time, the only exception that ever occurred is with whites in british colonies.

> ben carson and thomas sowell have low iq

He's talking about average iq

This makes sense in theory. But it doesn't work in practice. It's instinctual for people to stick with people of their own race. Throw a thousand Koreans into a Western Country, and what do they do? They start a Koreatown, where they can continue using their culture, language, customs, etc... Yes, some individuals integrate, but when large numbers of immigrants come over a short period of time, there is essentially no integration. AND, additional immigrants will move into cultural enclaves (Koreatowns, for example), and the failure of integration compounds upon itself.

>every black is as tall as Shaq

Can I close my borders with civic nationalism?

>Since without fail immigrants always congregate together in their own communities

Did you even read what I said? I'm assuming if they assimilate and abandoned their former cultures and weren't subverting the current one by making their own communities would it work?

Seriously? Not a fucking argument.

Ethno nationalism with heavy meritocracy.

it destroys diversity... end of debate.

So if small increments of refugees come in and the state made sure they assimilate before letting more in would it work?

Civic nationalism can work if your country is 99% white. All you have to do is keep imigration low.

For multiracial countries such as Brail, it doesn't do much good, though. It can have the purpose of being tough on crime, discorage degeneracy, and so on... But this country is demographically fucked no matter what.

Since there are average genetic differences between races (which will result in different behavior, iq, height, skin color on average - many of which will impact culture), I don't think it's wise to consider race irrelevant.

What about making current citizens integrate more into the culture?

>make them
How are you going to do that?

Agreed multiculturalism is a cancer destroying culture but I think there can still be a debate

>I'm assuming if they assimilate and abandoned their former cultures and weren't subverting the current one by making their own communities would it work?
No, point is they will never feel kinship, especially as you get further down the generation of immigrant.

God civies are dumb.

Its a compromise that defeats the whole purpose of nationalism. "Muh country" is never enough to keep populations in check, if that were the case the first world wouldn't be struggling like it is.

National pride and racial pride are the only way a nationalist country can function. Multiculturalism and leftist policies take root otherwise.

Heavy censoring different of different cultures from other countries favor of one that unites everyone together

There is literally no such thing as "civic nationalism". It's an idiotic contradiction in terms. Look up the etymology of the word "nationalism" or "nation" and see if you can figure out why.

The first world is struggling because they're too many competing cultures

That's my point.

>white race ceases to exist
>nigger arab hybrids are all thats left
>civilization crashes

Also it is a crime against the creator and nature to deny souls a suitable body.

Because they're not fully assimilating that's the problem its not that they're from a different place but they are not accepting the one that they're in

I'm saying to keep everyone's pride at a national level

The reason people become white nationalists is because they get convinced that the jews are behind everything. What is the first thing you do if you think jews run the world? You remember that guy that they taught everyone about, Hitler.

The things that they don't want you to know are not spoken about. The things that they want you to do are shoved down your throat but called bad. Oh, you naughty kiddo, don't go stealing from the cookie jar!

However, even basic examination of history reveals the fraud here. The methods of control of society predate the old testament. Sumer, Babylon, Egypt - you can find the exact same thing going down. Hence, "mystery babylon."

You fail to understand a crucial detail OP. Regardless of whether or not race is "skin deep", people will always take advantage of race for their own political gain. Companies and media will also seek to profit off of anything, so they have pushed a materialistic version of "culture" shamelessly (this is especially evident amongst blacks, but it has even become a thing among latinos and asians to a much lesser extent. I don't hate capitalism, but this is an inevitable side effect) The result is a reliable blue block that consistently votes for gibsmedat, constantly have children out of wedlock resulting in incredibly fucked up children and poverty, and a disgusting nigger culture. The simplest and most humane way to solve these problems is to have races live in separate states from each other (while at the same time providing moderate support for each other to prevent emigration)

>implying that wouldn't be turned on the native population
Or you could not do that and save your self the trouble by not inviting other cultures/races in in the first place.

Forcing assimilation never works. That's why you must keep racial and cultural homogeny. Think historically.

You missed the point. If everyone puts their country first that shouldn't matter. I don't care who's race gets wiped out from interracial breeding as long as they put their culture first i don't care

you don't have a country or culture without race

Because they dont assimilate and demand their culture be accepted.

People can hate jews without being a white nationalist

Are you a jew?

You're discounting average IQ and temperament that comes with race. Civilization as we know it not is not possible for everyone.

You're giving up too easily

I said simplest and most humane. Perhaps you would like to do what the Romans did and rape and beat those that refuse to assimilate into submission?

Or in increments until they assimilate

Read Robert Putnam's E Pluribus Unum before going wasting any more time.

aimlessgromar.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/j-1467-9477-2007-00176-x.pdf

The evidence that diversity and solidarity are negatively correlated
(controlling for many potentially confounding variables) comes from many
different settings:
• Across workgroups in the United States, as well as in Europe, internal
heterogeneity (in terms of age, professional background, ethnicity, tenure
and other factors) is generally associated with lower group cohesion,
lower satisfaction and higher turnover (Jackson et al. 1991; Cohen & Bailey
1997; Keller 2001; Webber & Donahue 2001).
• Across countries, greater ethnic heterogeneity seems to be associated
with lower social trust (Newton & Delhey 2005; Anderson & Paskeviciute
2006; but see also Hooghe et al. 2006).
• Across local areas in the United States, Australia, Sweden, Canada and
Britain, greater ethnic diversity is associated with lower social trust and,
at least in some cases, lower investment in public goods (Poterba 1997;
Alesina et al. 1999; Alesina & La Ferrara 2000, 2002; Costa & Kahn 2003b;Vigdor 2004; Glaeser & Alesina 2004; Leigh 2006; Jordahl & Gustavsson
2006; Soroka et al. 2007; Pennant 2005; but see also Letki forthcoming).
• Among Peruvian micro-credit cooperatives, ethnic heterogeneity is associated
with higher default rates; across Kenyan school districts ethnolinguistic
diversity is associated with less voluntary fundraising; and in
Himalayan Pakistan, clan, religious, and political diversity are linked with
failure of collective infrastructure maintenance (Karlan 2002; Miguel &
Gugerty 2005; Khwaja 2006).

Yeah but you know white nationalism is centered around anti-semitism. People don't grow up caring about their skin color. Black and white babies get along fine.

People get conned into thinking the jews run the world, then they look at Hitler, then they become ethnic nationalists.

Just a bunch of dupes. Basically the very bottom of the barrel in terms of being woke. Everyone knows Hitler was a controlled patsy at this point.

That's why I'm saying they need to be assimilate fully and abandon their former culture

Some immigrants are capable of assimilating but a lot don't. I'm a mixed fag with my father being white french Canadian and my mom being South American. I grew up in Canada and feel literally no connection to my mom's home country and its people. I identify with Western values and I believe the west is the best.

I asked my mother why she didn't push her country's culture/identity on me and she told that she went to Canada for a better life not just to change scenery.

I have some immigrant friends whose parents are purely pushing their home country identity on them. They follow the rules but they always favor their own. The thing is most immigrants end up like this. In the town I grew up in there's been a major influx of immigrants and especially since Canada pushes maintaining your home country identity now you can see the decay.

If I was white I'd probably be for ethno nationalism, but out of self interest I can't. Though I highly sympathize with them

• Across American census tracts, greater ethnic heterogeneity is associated
with lower rates of car-pooling, a social practice that embodies trust and
reciprocity (Charles & Kline 2002).
• Within experimental game settings such as prisoners-dilemma or ultimatum
games, players who are more different from one another (regardless of
whether or not they actually know one another) are more likely to defect (or
‘cheat’). Such results have been reported in many countries, from Uganda
to the United States (Glaeser et al. 2000; Fershtman & Gneezy 2001;
Eckel & Grossman 2001; Willinger et al. 2003; Bouckaert & Dhaene 2004;
Johansson-Stenman et al. 2005; Gil-White 2004; Habyarimana et al. 2006).
• Within the Union (northern) Army in the American Civil War, the
casualty rate was very high and the risks of punishment for desertion were
very low, so the only powerful force inhibiting the rational response of
desertion was loyalty to one’s fellow soldiers, virtually all of whom were
other white males. Across companies in the Union Army, the greater the
internal heterogeneity (in terms of age, hometown, occupation, etc.), the
higher the desertion rate (Costa & Kahn 2003a).

just stop
msutoday.msu.edu/news/2013/study-asks-is-a-better-world-possible/
ose.utsc.utoronto.ca/ose/story.php?id=2135

No you missed the point, niggers are not mentally capable of sustaining society above the level of tribes on there own.

Kill refugees for hitlers birthday

youtube.com/watch?v=5oHLu6HkDHY

Deport them instead

Because the very virtue of being a non-white in a culturally white country is by definition subversive.

I don't give a shit if you speak German better than a native. I don't care if you wolf down wine and baguettes like it's going out of fashion. I don't care if you lube yourself in olive oil and haul in a fresh catch of fish from the Aegean every morning before praying to a little icon of Emperor Palaiologos.

If you aren't from Europe, you will NEVER be European. You will NEVER be a part of your host nation's culture. Their language, their history, their GENETICS, you do NOT share these things with them because you were not along for the ride. You simply adopted it.

Don't get me wrong, immigrants are okay. They serve a purpose, and if they make an attempt to actually try and fit in they're good to stay as far as I'm concerned. But we need to stop this retarded idea that somehow Mohammed and Jamal can be German if they just learn German and get a job and wear Lederhosen and drink beer.

And yes, I'm aware that cultures change over time. Today, there is a united identity of what it means to be Greek when in the distant past it was divided more along lines of Attic/Laconic/Macedonian/etc. Today, there is a common French identity when in the past it was more Burgundian/Francien/Breton/Occitan/etc.

But those changes happen naturally, over hundreds of years, and because those people share a very related culture.

A Turk or a nigger from Somalia has about as much in common with a Swede or Scotsman as I do with a banana.

No I'm black

Except it doesn't work for all cultures. Arabs in the UK that were born there are more likely to be radical, not less. It took allot of blood and bullshit just to integrate Irish Catholics and Italians in america its going to be exponentially harder than that.

Why should that matter as long as they're united under one culture

THEY CANT ASSILIMATE BECUASE THEY ARE PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY DIFFERENT ITS LIKE SAYING YOU CAN GET YOUR TIME MACHINE TO WORK IF ONLY YOU COULD GET TIME TO FLOW BACKWARDS. YOU CANNOT BE A DIVERSE MULTI-ETHNIC COUNTRY AND BE CIVIC NATIONALIST.

So you're actually pushing for Civic nationalism because ethno-nationalism would result in you being surrounded by a bunch of dindus, right? I mean, I understand that's a less than favorable outcome for you, but that's why you're pushing the civic nationalism meme.

So far I have limited my presentation to evidence regarding social trust, and it is true that the most impressive and substantial patterns we have so far discovered involve trust of various sorts, including even trust of shop clerks.

However, a wide array of other measures of social capital and civic engagement are also negatively correlated with ethnic diversity. 16

In areas of greater
diversity, our respondents demonstrate:

• Lower confidence in local government, local leaders and the local news media. 17
• Lower political efficacy – that is, confidence in their own influence. 18
• Lower frequency of registering to vote, but more interest and knowledge about politics and more participation in protest marches and social reform groups.19
• Less expectation that others will cooperate to solve dilemmas of collective action (e.g., voluntary conservation to ease a water or energy shortage). 20
• Less likelihood of working on a community project. 21
• Lower likelihood of giving to charity or volunteering. 22
• Fewer close friends and confidants. 23
• Less happiness and lower perceived quality of life. 24
• More time spent watching television and more agreement that ‘television is my most important form of entertainment’. 25

The parts worth reading start halfway down page 141.

Diversity is always bad.

People build institutions and create cultures. These things don't come out of nowhere. If you want to preserve and protect the insitutions and culture of a country, the most effective way of doing so is by preserving and protecting the people who built them. Furthermore, evolution has occurred in the past few thousand years, which is recent enough for instrinsic differences to exist between the races of man. And some of these differences affect social behavior, such as the prevalence of the warrior gene, for instance. Hence race and social behavior are not as inseparable as civil nationalists make them out to be.

...

So then separating people of different races? Because I can assure you a majority of the people that will refuse to assimilate will be a different race and those that stay will be so few they get wiped out by miscegenation. Additionally, it is only a matter of time before an opportunist realizes he can get millions more votes for his party by inviting in people that won't assimilate and will reproduce at incredible rates relative to the rest of the population. It is simply just politics, people will exploit diversity to divide people for votes.

>as the people of a nation are following its laws and not trying to subvert the nation's culture I don't see the problem

Race is the basis of culture. If you haven't noticed the Latinization of American politics you might be a retard.

Wops and Micks aren't even "integrated" 100 years later by my definition. They still have their gay ass parades all the fucking time, and insist on letting you know that they're Italian or Irish.

I hate wops especially. They talk so fucking loud, with their big kike noses. Hairy as fuck and always wearing flashy jewelry.

>what are statistical outliers
Btw, these guys are intelligent enough to be statistical outliers among any racial or ethnic group. But they are even more extreme outliers among their own kind.

>Black and white babies get along fine.
Well...
phys.org/news/2017-04-infants-racial-bias-members.html

>Two studies by researchers at the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE) at the University of Toronto and their collaborators from the US, UK, France and China, show that six- to nine-month-old infants demonstrate racial bias in favour of members of their own race and racial bias against those of other races.

>In the first study, "Older but not younger infants associate own-race faces with happy music and other-race faces with sad music", published in Developmental Science, results showed that after six months of age, infants begin to associate own-race faces with happy music and other-race faces with sad music.

>In the second study, "Infants rely more on gaze cues from own-race than other-race adults for learning under uncertainty", published in Child Development, researchers found that six- to eight-month-old infants were more inclined to learn information from an adult of his or her own race than from an adult of a different race.

Because they'll be at a disadvantage. One that will breed resentment. It will also be harder for them to adhere to the standards of behavior you expect. The truth of this is front and center in the states.

Right, so expecting a culture/race that is even more divergent is a pipe dream.

This

This. Fake Europeans need to go.

Ok, I understand that. What you should do is seek out like minded blacks, and, instead of piggybacking on white society and achievements (a very jewy thing to do, by the way), work to form a cohesive Black identity. Look at people like Malcolm X for ideas. Yes, I know it's hard, and probably an uphill climb. But nothing really worth doing is easy. Plus, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you went and did something for yourself and your people. Go. Be the hero your people need you to be.

Oh god, please return to the Donald. I don't want to hear your already disproven nonsense about all races being equal. This shit is beyond annoying.

>muh IQ muhfugga
>he boasts while shitposting on Sup Forums with fellow 16 year olds

OP I agree with you but at the same time, fuck refugees. Take care of your own before others.

i don't believe in blacks as a monolith, I like to judge people based on their individual merits not a skin color that is arbitrary

civic nationalism is pretty much just a more restricted version of multiculturalism. Germany isn't Germany if the majority of the population is brown skinned, even if everybody speaks german.

But blacks very seldom have any individual merits. They probably have the lowest per-capita merits of any race, and that's the problem.

Look you can do whatever mental gymnastics you'd like to try and pretend like all races are equal. At the end of the day, they're not, and trying to bring unsuccessful races under the wing of successful ones and then claiming they deserve to reap the rewards is bullshit. They need to fuck off and achieve something on their own for once.

Also why do believe just because you are white it means that you take all accolades for all achievements by smart white people but never terrible ones too.

They're basically the same thing. You'll virtually never find a Paki who's fully British culturally.

I aknowlege this, all races are not equal when it comes to merits

None of these circuitous explanations are needed. Race is real.

web.archive.org/web/20150209011833/https://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/2012/06/10/the-facts-that-need-to-be-explained/

This is about as absurdly comprehensive an argument as you'll ever need on the topic.

I think white is an abbreviation for a group of people organized around people of a minimum intelligence, probably somewhere around an IQ of 100 at one point, but slowly growing over time. I think "white" is mostly a generalization. Unfortunately, the generalization is too often true, so it's hard to see it as a capability thing vs. a color thing. Both start in genetics, however. But, some promote higher IQ in their offspring while other stupider people promote lower IQ in their offspring.

Just because they have lower IQ's doesn't mean they're incapable accomplish anything

Because they're my people. I really have absolutely nothing against you. That being said, you have your people, and I have mine. I admit whites have done terrible things in the past. But I don't apologize in the least for them. I'm proud of my ancestry, and you should be too. Be proud of who you are. Be proud of your people. If they're weak now, then put in effort to make them strong in the future.

The idea of assimilation is a dumb meme anyways. When lefties talk about some spic they know who's "just like them" the mean that he's just as rootless and unattached to any history or customs as they are. The urban cosmopolitans are exactly the same everywhere - in London, in Stockholm, in New York, or Berlin.

The fact is that those spics haven't 'assimilated', they've simply become as detached from their homes as the anti-nationalists leftists have.

the take over is real, and its coming

I did in no mean try to shame you and I agree you shouldn't apologize for all of white because that's idiotic but why do you see yourself as part of a collective instead of just an individual

And I despise that, Latinos should be putting America first before they're Latino culture

Because we're not individuals. We're part of a collective series of units, the smallest of which is your family, that extends all the way up to your people. Read this, then report back. One of the most important/best reads I ever had.

Civic nationalism is radical centrist feel-good pie-in-the-sky bullshit. The only reason you support it OP, is because you're not white.

Economically it makes sense but I don't think this is possible in the twenty-first century. Getting rid of women's suffrage isn't a good idea because it goes against the ninetieth amendment making it unconstitutional

You're right, I don't want to be surrounded by niggers

because they will irreparably change their host country. only a short 100 years ago most of europe was 100% populated by its natives and now look.

This so much im 3rd gen Mexican of a based hardworking legal immigrant. About 2/10 families that come to my area Even attempt to adapt to american culture you have people walking around with state ids that can't even speak a lick of English. To top it off they continually spout this viva mexico stuff and from what they say they put mexico before the us every.single.time. civic soc much like some communist ideals seems like they could lead to the ideal society on paper. But unfortunately in almost every implementation thus far they fail to meet the expectations of what they could be.

You people are blinded by your own prejudice. Blacks have the potential to be some of the most productive citizens of the first world. But much like every other race they're held back by their shit culture and enabled into nigger behaviour by shitty government incentives. We need to revamp the system to have them truly integrate. Simply saying blacks are chimps without realising their plight is ignorant.