/Ecclesia/-Christian Alliance General

For Catholics, Coptics, Anglicans, Orthodox, and Protestants alike, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

Previous Thread: Bible:
>KJV
biblegateway.com/versions/King-James-Version-KJV-Bible/
>Septuagint
ecmarsh.com/lxx/
>Vulgata
drbo.org/lvb/
>Georgian
orthodoxy.ge/tserili/biblia_sruli/sarchevi.php
>Savonic
pomog.org/bible-church-slavonic/

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=ZQoJvI8XUa0
biblehub.com/revelation/3-9.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=5bVEXZ38Vs8
biblehub.com/proverbs/8-13.htm
biblehub.com/psalms/97-10.htm
biblehub.com/psalms/26-5.htm
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Catholics aren't Christian

Fuck off shill god does not exist.

redpill me on the early church fathers. What do they believe in?

Read the scriptures and you'll see. Christ is the only way to Salvation. Everyone who believes in him and repents will be saved.

Been there done that. Now I want to know about the early church fathers and christians

They believed that justification is by faith alone

I'd study more about St Linus if I had the time to learn about that. Just a suggestion though.

A FUCKING BOOK

Why is Estonia always the fedora.

Look at the works of John the chrysostom, Basil the great and Gregory the theologian.

But how come I don't see that when I read their writings?

The earliest church fathers even sound oddly Pelagian

Any writings of Linus?

Eesti pls no bully

I looked at a few 2nd century fathers and Clement of Rome so far.

I am planning to go in order from earliest to latest of the period of the church fathers

I'll give you a list of interesting writings in general


The Summa Theologiæ

The Way of Perfection

Apologia Pro Vita

Maybe one of the books like "A History of the Church", and I recommend the Catholic Encyclopedia.

I recommend Orthodox material too, but I don't know a lot about that.

>Pelagian
I think the concept of Divine Grace was just so widely agreed upon it felt unnecessary for them to address.

There were a lot of things they didn't feel it necessary to address because they didn't have the wide array of heresies we have now.

The Lord is risen.

thread theme

youtube.com/watch?v=ZQoJvI8XUa0

Hail Odin

Fpbp.

THOU SHALT CALL NO MAN FATHER...Calls Their worship leader Father

THOU SHALT NOT WORSHIP GRAVEN IMAGES OR IDOLS NOR BOW DOW TO THEM...Mary, the pope, the saints, kneeling at the stations.

IF YOU FOLLOW THE POPE ON TWITTER HE WILL PRAY FOR YOU TO GET OUT OF PURGATORY QUICKER!

Edgy

only true religion www.ourladyisgod.com

Hail, brother!

>Person 1 What religion are you? Aren't you Christian?
>Person 2 Oh no, I'm Catholic.

Everytime !

>Thou shalt call no man Father

You call your biological Father, Father.

You call your wifes Father, Father.

You are simply to understand that there is no one who is truly your Father but God. You may have a biological Father, and call him Father every day, are you disobeying Gods commandments by doing this?

>Thou shalt not worship Graven images

Catholics don't do this, as I've explained before. Statues are decorative. They decorate the church and the altars and the courtyard. But nobody worships and bows down to them.

Have you ever worn a cross-necklace? Is that a Graven Image which you worship? No, because it's just a symbol, it's not an idol.

Do orthodox and protestant people also do confessions and stuff?

Orthodox does.

With Protestants it depends.

>You call your biological Father, Father.
I see, so what Jesus really meant was "Call anyone you want father"
>Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

I'm going to fast for the first time today bros. I'm Orthodox but I never dived in.

What the hell do I eat?

I call my Dad. Dad. We make Statues but we don't bow..

Stop reading there. Your traditions don't override what the Bible says. Follow me on Twitter though so you can get out of Purgatory too.

The orthodox people I know who fast basically go vegan.

As a catholic, when I fast it's no meat, no sweet stuff, no alcohol and no shitposting (since it's one of my main vices) and eat less. When I unfortunately have busy workdays and need to keep going, I'll eat normally minus the meat and alcohol and just have bread and soup in the evening, with nothing else.

The priests here actually fast completely, so they only drink water and take the holy communion.

>I call my Dad. Dad.

Just another word for Father.

>We make statues but we don't bow

Sounds good to me!

>Just another word for Father.
Obviously Jesus meant spiritual father. Which still excludes priests.

As a former Baptist, I find it strange that early Christian authors actually describe the Lord's Supper in very literal terms. That is to say some sort of Transubstantiation or Consubstantiation

Cut it out Malaysia

baptists weird me out, you familiar with Urantia? Also what's with southern baptists and jew worship?

Why does the Pope and Catholic traditions always override what the Bible teaches in Catholicism? I've never understood that. You should be taking up your cross daily and meditating on the word of God daily. You decorate your churches and kneel down to all the decorations in your churches. You confess your sins to a man instead of God. I can go on and on but it seems like the Catholic Church always violates what the Bible actually teaches.

>Obviously Jesus meant spiritual father.

I know.

>Which still excludes priests

When Jesus said "it's better to pluck out your eye" he was using hyperbole to an extent. Otherwise we'd be blind amputees, and the guys who whip themselves would be right to do so.

Some individuals genuinely do have a spiritual fatherhood.

Joseph described his relationship to the Pharoah as a Fatherhood relationship.

and Elisha yelled, "My father, my father!" when Elijah was being carried up into heaven. Even though Elijah wasn't his biological Father.

>Why does the Pope and Catholic traditions always override what the Bible teaches in Catholicism?

They don't. Protestants and Catholics have major disagreements on the theology of scripture. But the Pope and Catholic Traditions never override scripture.


I gotta sleep now, and I enjoyed everyones debates and discussions. Someone else will have to bake the next bread.

If I don't see one tomorrow I'll make a new one.

Priests in the catholic church give up a large part of who they are to become men of God, or as much as Jesus as they possibly can. When you confess to a priest, they are trying to be as much as Jesus. If you stick with the very rational side I can understand why you would go "holy crap this is retarded". But by using the right words, the right atmosphere they help create an environment where there is no judgement for what you have done, only forgiveness, and they try to channel the immense love of God for you, as best as they can. It's because of that love that you forgive your sins and come out blessed anew out of confession.

Love covers a multitude of sins.

I am not a Southern Baptist. I was however a Reformed Baptist.

>he was using hyperbole to an extent
So an explicit command is hyperbole? Is the greatest commandment hyperbole too?
>Some individuals genuinely do have a spiritual fatherhood.
Only one, and He is in heaven.
>Joseph described his relationship to the Pharoah as a Fatherhood relationship.
>and Elisha yelled, "My father, my father!" when Elijah was being carried up into heaven. Even though Elijah wasn't his biological Father.
Father figures, not spiritual fatherhood.
In Biblical Christianity, there is no need for such perpetual forgiveness, because we have non-imputation of sin. Once someone becomes a Christian and believes on Christ, all their sins are forgiven, past, present and future.

well yeah I didn't say you were, but there's, a lot of weird shit in the south, is all. I used to be a baptist myself til I found out about space god and got redpilled about the JQ. Ashkenazis who don't turn to christ being the synagogue of satan that is. biblehub.com/revelation/3-9.htm

Don't you ever feel like crap for something you did to another person? Like imagine, even if you know it's your mom and she loves you to death, does that mean you never ask her sorry when you broke something or said something harsh to her?

You don't NEED to confess your sins, technically. But sometimes you just want to apologize and admit you fucked up.

>You don't NEED to confess your sins
Mortal sins?

American Evangelicals have a boner for Israel. The church I was a part of doesnt. But it does possess the same crappy concert worship, disdain for science and a weird fetish for presuppositional apologetics.

There's a difference between confession, repentance and atonement.

But to be fair here I'm a bit out of my depth. I'm a recent convert.

I would be more into the faith if it was like it is in some fantasies or rpgs. If I took the oath of Christianity I would want some holy powers or some shit. I wanna be a holy Templar and fuck demons up. The way it is without all that is just some boring guide to virtue signaling.

Yeah, at the end of the day though, I wish we could all just get along and agree that the best methodology is to follow Christ's footsteps by helping the needy and beating up bankers and throwing them out of places of worship.

What did you convert from?

Used to be a pagan.

You should look into conservative, Reformed Protestantism.

To be fair, no thank you. I mean, you live in the US so it's different and I'm not going to shit on you for having a different denomination. But here, mainland Europe, you have signs of the catholic church everywhere. This continent was molded by it. I wouldn't be able to go to any other denomination than the one that permeates all of where I live.

Why don't the devoted get the power to cast miracle spells? Why?

Wouldn't it be so cool to attune to some miracle spell that could heal or cast rays of lights? Fight off demonic entities with holy power.

This is not a difference of adiaphora, this is the difference between heaven and hell.

I used to be into witchcraft and that sort of stuff happened. Fought it off.

Don't think it can't happen. Actually, be happy if it doesn't to you.

You made the right choice. Any system that dare preaches that God sends people to hell before he made the world should be avoided.

What I found very inconsistent in my Baptist church is that they claim to believe this yet say that we have the freedom to choose. What a joke

Explain to me how holy powers bestowed onto the devoted by archangels is witch craft.

Seriously, that makes absolutely no sense.

Ah no you understood what I said badly. I didn't say that holy powers are witchcraft. I just wanted to say that you don't need to be a priest or nun to have a guardian angel or God step in and have evil shit fuck off, provided you ask for help.

But what if I want to become one of those holy entities that fights off demonic creatures? Is it possible, I'm not asking for the typical "just read the Bible" meme response. I need a guide to having this, how can someone like me gain spiritual powers strong enough to make demonic creatures fall to their knees in fear?

Traitor

I'm serious user, I don't think you understand the gravity of this situation. Protestantism and Catholicism, though similar in many ways, are not the same religion. If Protestantism is true and you die a Catholic, you go to hell (and vice versa). I myself am a former Catholic.
Here, if you ever have the time, you should give this a watch. You don't want to get tied up with Romanism
youtube.com/watch?v=5bVEXZ38Vs8

Odd because that is the same guy that deny free will(which contradicts all the church fathers) and misrepresents scholarly sources in his blog.

I used to read his blog as a former Baptist. Then I actually found one of the books he cited in a library and was shocked by how much he misrepresented it

Then you got it wrong.

Paganism is not about witchcraft. See Thulean perspective and Marie Catchet.
It's about nature and survival.

Malaysian, why are you lying? And why are you pretending to not be you?

The book I read in question was JND Kelly's Early Christian Doctrines for anyone wondering. In one of Reformed Apologetics Ministeties blogposts, he erroneously used Kelly as a source stating that the early church fathers believed in sola scriptura but if you read the whole chapter on Tradition what he is basically trying to do is to avoid the view that separates Scripture and Tradition into two distinct sources that is the sola Scripture view and what is considered the Catholic view.

His conclusion states that the relation between Scripture and Tradition in the Early Church is one where Scripture can only be properly intepreted in the church itself and is guided by the intepretations of previous church fathers. This is essentially the Prima scriptura view

I'm happy that you guys believe in Jesus, but many of you need to understand that there is no place for Jew hatred there. In fact there is no place for hatred whatsoever.

Please don't be deceived by the cultural aspect of Christianity, and forgetting how much God loves each and every one of us and longs for a relationship with us, so that we walk like Jesus did, blessing and loving, not cursing and hating!

God bless you all :)

Just go ahead and spam your image.jpg shitposts. It's not like you're actually fooling anybody.

im pretty sure a good christian wouldnt post on a mongolian basketweaving forum

Except I am not. That is the case

Here is another example, in attacking the Assumption doctrine in his blog, you can clearly see him cite Stephen Shoemaker to say that it comes from heretical sources. But if you look closely at what Shoemaker says, he is practically following Bart Erhman's approach to Early Christian studies and consistently clarifies the uncertainty of the source of the dormition traditions.

Protestant apologetics also love citing Mary in the New Testament but if you read what the authors conclude, you would see them taking a development of doctrine approach and still agree that Mary's position in the New Testament or some books of it is actually special

>Accuses me of being someone else

Get a haircut hippy. God loves us, but he commands us to hate as he hates. A man of god knows that it is both righteous and good to try and redeem the wicked, and to, if they cannot be redeemed, reject them.

biblehub.com/proverbs/8-13.htm
biblehub.com/psalms/97-10.htm
biblehub.com/psalms/26-5.htm

>bears false witness
You have the most distinctive posting style I've ever seen. Also, I've seen you since you first started shitposting, so I recognize that you've made these statements while in autism mode before. Just shit up the thread and be done with it, you raving lunatic.

Hey bro, while I agree that Catholicism has a lot of heretical practices, I wouldn't go around saying they're going to hell.

The most important thing is that they believe that Jesus is the Son of the Father, and God himself, and that he died for our sins and rose on the third day. That's what saves, not having your theology straight.

That being said though, If anyone really wants to take their faith seriously, they should be deeply troubled by some of the practices of Catholicism. There's too much human intervention in the things of God, while the Bible makes it clear that all power and glory belongs to God and God alone.

It does strike me as very strange when Catholics are fine with praying to dead saints when the Bible says it's wrong, or letting a priest mediate between us and Christ, when the Bible clearly says there is only one mediator and that is Christ Jesus.

Even before I read the Bible for myself, i felt uneasy about it all. It felt like human tradition invading God, rather than allowing God to invade our lives without putting man anywhere in that relationship. The priests need forgiveness as much as we do, and so do the saints, and to elevate them in any way seems very wrong to me.

But in any case, at least it's not denying Jesus as God, like Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses do, they have really corrupted the Bible and twisted God's word like crazy.

Read Galatians.

...

...

Why are you so booty blasted at the religious?

>Get a haircut hippy
This right here, this statement, shows what's in your heart

No, it doesn't command us to hate anyone. Hating sin yes, that's what repentance is all about, but hating people? No. You would really have to deliberately ignore most of the Bible and cherry pick some verses out of context while playing word games, to justify your sinful hateful heart, rather than allowing God to correct it.

Don't compare your hate to God's hate, what God has is a holy and pure hatred towards sin and darkness, that's why the wages of sin is death and we all don't deserve to be in his presence, and that is what Christ fixed.

Your hate is selfish, self-centered, and evil. Please don't play word games, you know very well how much God wants us to love all, including our enemies, and to pray for those who persecute us, and not to take revenge because vengeance is for the Lord. Don't play word games with God's word, for as you know, God is not mocked, and we will be judged for every careless word we speak!

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."
(1 John 4:8)

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
(Jeremiah 17:9)

what if I told you the ultimate form of larping is the state
you don't even need gay costumes for thatall you need is people without religion looking for a replacement

...

Question to americans

>false witness

Pic related

>Paul
No thanks

A lot of these stemmed from early Christian practice if you take the time to read

I have read it, and will always read it again, but thanks for the reminder I guess :p

Hey man, Paul is great, it's just that people are sinful.

The same reason we have Mormons is the same reason we have people claiming things like we should be hating Jews, or that Jesus isn't really God but some sort of ascended master. It all comes from the lies of the devil, the sinful heart of man, as well as the ignorance of man.

"See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."
(Colossians 2:8)

>No thanks
Why?
>I have read it
Great, this time pay real close attention to 1:8-9, and count the total times in the epistle Paul attacks their Christology

...

There are heretical writings that date before the Catholic church even existed, so what?

I'll paste here again what I pasted in my previous reply:

"See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."
(Colossians 2:8)

Don't get taken captive, forget history and people's actions, but focus on Christ and his love, recognize your sinful heart and repent.

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight."
(Proverbs 9:10)

It's not about religion and theology, but about God, the focus is always God, when we submit our life to Christ and build a relationship with him, our theology will correct itself. If we begin studying theology and history, without being born again, it's a waste of time.

All that's happening there is Paul warning the Galatians from believing any other gospel than what was preached to them by the disciples and apostles.

We don't know what the specific heresy was, but from the text we know that they had deserted Christ and believed a different gospel.

Then he goes on to describe his past to the Galatians, and how he persecuted the Church, saying the gospel he received was not from man, but received as a revelation from Jesus Christ.

Don't read your own interpretations into the text, all we know is that the Galatians had messed up, and that is the reason Paul is sending them this letter.

>It's not about religion and theology, but about God, the focus is always God, when we submit our life to Christ and build a relationship with him, our theology will correct itself. If we begin studying theology and history, without being born again, it's a waste of time.
This is what I tell people all the time. Some guy asked on Sup Forums the other day which denomination he should join since he wanted to follow Christ. I told him to just follow Yeshua and that way the Holy Spirit would lead him down the right paths all his life, but the catholics kept telling him to join "the one true catholic church", talk to this and that priest and read a bunch of books(not the Bible).

Getting saved and following Christ is easier than what religious people make it out to be.

I find this argument weak as it is very odd when a belief in a providential God who intervenes in human affairs and creation yet does not guide his flock. Or perhaps rather oddly delivered the message of salvation such that it is in a medium that is easily corrupted by priests given the high rate of illiteracy at the time.

And isn't the whole vibe of the NT communial in nature?

This is what I realized after going through scholarship

But perhaps you would like to take Colossians 2:8 in its plain sense. Then Paul himself is guilty for he himself cites Pagan literature, makes some of his arguments in Romans in the way of philosophical writings as in the style of dialectic and himself draws from Jewish tradition?

I take everything Paul said with a grain of salt. He was a mere man. Alright he was a saint, but none of the other got their shit pasted in the new testament like that.
While the new testament is a love letter to life and shines bright, what Paul writes is diminishing it by ramming unnecessary ascetism into it. I don't remember if he was influenced by the platonic ideas that well all the range but could be. Hypathia lived a bit later, during the christianisation and she was a platonist. The hatred of the body and her entire rant at "how can you like something that bleeds out of their snatch" towards someone who loved her is typical for platonists who hated the body and only looked to the immaterial realm of ideas as good.

Other example.
On one hand, we now know that the love between man and woman is an expression, although imperfect, of the love of God. There's no more beautiful thing than the creation of another life through two people that love each other. Then comes Paul who says that the best thing you can do is to love someone from afar and never desecrate them by not putting your peen in their vagina, but if you can't help yourself well at least get married.

With Paul you reintroduce a hatred of the physical, of the body. Whereas, if such a hatred had any place at all, it contradicts the purpose of Jesus incarnating as a child, getting born, growing up and his physical body dying. There's something very powerful in the message that God's son took on the flesh. Denying it left and right doesn't seem like it's the original intent - even though moderation, obviously, is a good thing too.

I'm not anti-Semitic at all, I love Jews and Gentiles, and pray for peace for Jerusalem!

If you guys want to help spread the gospel of Jesus Christ in Israel, please support the "One For Israel" ministry, it's comprised of Jews and Arabs working together to spread the gospel.

They have a channel on Youtube, check it out. There's also an equivalent channel called "iGod.co.il" with only Hebrew content (no subtitles).

>All that's happening there is Paul warning the Galatians from believing any other gospel than what was preached to them by the disciples and apostles.
Some key terms used include words stressing their fellowship like "anathema" and "false brothers", "fallen from grace" and "severed from Christ". Clearly just a minor error, not damnable at all.
>We don't know what the specific heresy was
You can't possibly be serious
>all we know is that the Galatians had messed up
Bit of an understatement, innit?

>I'm not anti-Semitic at all, I love Jews and Gentiles, and pray for peace for Jerusalem!
lol, I didn't meant to call u antisemetic either. Just posted this show some support :P

SRy for the misunderstanding xd

God does guide his flock, but if people choose not to listen, then how can he guide them?

Listening to God isn't just reading the Bible, but actively seeking him all day every day, praying, repenting, studying the word, asking God to help you understand the Bible better when you read it, asking him what to do tomorrow, sharing with him your pains and struggles, crying out to him night and day, and trusting in him.

Instead of trying to get your theology straight, why not try to get your relationship strong with God?

Ask God to help you understand Paul's writings if you're struggling with them, tell God:

"Lord Jesus, I believe what you did to Paul on his road to Damascus, and I thank you for what you've done through him, but I'm really struggling to understand some of these writings. I ask you Lord to please help me understand these verses while I read them, so that I can learn to please you better and feed my soul with your righteous inspired words".

Ultimately it's the Holy Spirit that will make all things clear to you, don't rely on your own understanding :)

>I take everything Paul said with a grain of salt.
Then you're taking a lot of the Bible, that was inspired by God and written by men, with a grain of salt. Paul was a man of God, who walked in the love of Christ all throughout his life.

It wasn't even Paul who converted, but Jesus who changed his heart on his way to Damascus. Are you saying Jesus made a mistake? And allowed Paul to write bad things in the Bible? Why are you doubting God's power and providence?

Read what I wrote above also!

What the fuck is borjghali is doing in spain?!