/Leftypol/ here:

/Leftypol/ here:

In your opinion, what exactly makes Socialism & Communism 'bad' systems?

Furthermore, what makes Capitalism a 'good' system?

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Kill yourself you commie piece of shit so we don't have to waste our hard earned money on the bullets to do it for you

Typical fascist retard. How about instead of sperging out like a moron you actually answer the damn questions

Commies don't deserve (You)s or their questions answered.

The only reason you're still alive is you're too much of a coward to kill yourself. Just grow a pair for once in your goddamn life and make your absent father proud.

that's way too simplistic a question, it shows you're basically retarded, try again

I asked a simple question to a simple-minded board.

Perhaps you can expand on the question itself?

FREEDOM

you ignorant fucking faggot

Communist states can barely protect themselves from outside threats.

You give the state total control. I mean for fucks sake man.

Typical commie retard calling everyone a fasict

Why do people consistently risk their lives to escape communism/socialism in order to reach capitalist societies?
Nobody EVER wants to escape capitalism for socialism unless they are running from the law...

there is no freedom and nobody is different. that sucks.

I don't think you should ask those nekbeards here, As you can see with the given answers. It's all biased and unlogical.

Both are bad, in fact commies have always been the useful idiots of the international bankers and capitalists, like how they funded the red revolution in Russia.

I support a third position.

Explain in your mind communism would work.

>Communist states

That's an oxymoron and in real communism (due to its global application) there are no states at all nor any "outside threats" simply DUE to the fact that there are no states (and therefore no states using militaries to project power and imperialism)

Pure socialism without any kind of overhead is bad because you inevitably end up with people being executed and killed over food rations. A system cannot afford to take all desire and praise away from a system. In a socialist system everyone is in essence the same.
>Cultural Marxism 101
This brings me to my point of why Communism is bad. Convincing everyone they're the same no matter if they become a brain surgeon or a janitor they're all considered the same. This removes the desire to succeed and do these things. As well it is wrong to force everyone into the same living conditions for the sake of "global efficiency".

Capitalism is a good system for keeping your people motivated. The best succeed and the worst get taken advantage of by the best. Once the worst realize this they strive to be the best and some end up getting pretty close.

As a NatSoc. I think you're both wrong and so would most of this board.

Show me when a Communist country has worked..
It sounds good in a book, but fails hard in real life. Put the Commie books in the fiction section next to Harry Potter. They're fun stuff to read that can't happen in the real world.

Which is what? Fascism? The most laughably failed ideology of the 20th century?

How's the wealth distributed if there isn't a state?

Capitalism is not good but socialism is utter shit.

>real communism

In my opinion communism is a badsystem because its utopical
I dont think that capitalism is a good system but its the most fitted for the human nature, because of the way we evolved

hang yourself, you dumb fuck

Simply put, people do what is in their own rational self interest. If you disincentivize enough people, then people just opt out and stop giving their best effort.

People need incentives to work hard, and an ideology about solidarity and "the people" just doesn't cut it for most people as they look out for people they give a shit about and that's it.

Also, communist has historically shown off its ignorance of basic economics. Like Hayek said, if socialists understood economics, they wouldn't be socialists.

Bottom line, socialism/communism is idealistic and capitalism is realistic, and historically realists have the better track record.

Also whilst I do believe socialism starts with noble intentions, any movement (and I mean any) is eventually co-opted by idiots with malicious intent and want to use that movement for their own ends.

Some for of it yes. Fascism proper did not fail, it was crushed by three of the largest empires the world has ever seen. Funny enough the Capitalist powers and the Soviet Union were allied and the USSR was funded by the US and Wall Street bankers.

Capitalism and communism both boil humans down to economic units, only nationalism can give true dignity to the workers.

I seriously don't understand that part of it. I'm asking a legitimate question, leaf

The means of production are run collectively by the workers themselves so like Marx said:

>From each according to his ability to each according to his need

>muh human nature

Care to explain what this is or how it's even real?

Taking other people's shit is bad.

Humans are fundamentally shortsighted and corrupt, regardless of good intentions, any communist society will eventually be riddled with corruption and inefficient totalitarianism under a selective oligarchy, as we've seen throughout history, whereas capitalism, while not immune to the inherently corrupting influence of human nature, keeps humans balanced against one another and competing, which prevents any one group or individuals from gaining total power, and gives the best results.

Both systems are fundamentally flawed, but capitalism less so, as it addresses and harnesses human nature, whereas communism seeks to change human nature to suit its utopian ideal. Personally, I subscribe to the Nationalist Socialist ideology, which addresses the veracity of both systems, removes or minimizes the flaws of each, and incorporates the best parts, forming a hybridized and efficient society with a minimum of corruption.

>capitalism

acknowledges that you own your own body, and therefore whatever it produces

>socialism

You're a slave.

What stops the workers from fucking eachother over? How would the workers even do that to begin with?

No, there would be "one State to rule them"

And it would be complete rule over people, that's the only place Communism can go.
In order to ensure that everything is being divided equally a structure must be in place. You can never get everyone to agree to follow the law on their own, it ignores human nature and reality. If there is a speeding sign people will still speed. If you tell people to divide their stuff equally, people won't. It has to be enforced. Which means you end up with people who don't want to give up their stuff, and those who enforce it. Causing a division between those who have power and those who do not. It is the only path Communism can take. Everything you read in your books is a fairy tail. And "true communism" has never happened as a result of the fact that human nature is not a part of the equation in creating the system.

Human nature. These systems fail to account for human nature, and fighting it is a losing battle.

>In your opinion, what exactly makes Socialism & Communism 'bad' systems?
that the only way it could work is for the whole world to submit to it.

You see stupid baiting faggot, in your perfect communist society nobody can think "what if we try another way", because that would end your stupid perfect communist society, it would REQUIRE A HIVEMIND TO WORK, I DONT WANT TO BE PART OF AN HIVEMIND IM AN INDIVIDUAL.

It's really not that hard to figure out why a semi-religious board hates your dumb Ideology.

These systems works directly against the social Darwinism. How can you make sure it is sustainable? How do you prevent idiocracy?

That's all in theories, it dosen't work in the real world. Capitalism is also flawed as fuck too. We need a third option and leave the cold war's ideologies behind for good.

Everyone has been saying we need a third option for awhile now. Why has no one come up with one? I don't think there is one realistically

And, your ideology is only against religion because IT WANT TO REPLACE RELIGION, IT WANTS TO FILL THE VOID. Look at all your communist idols, they are worshiped as saints, some of them even have their bodies preserved for display.

Tl;dr communism is a religion.

you can theorize all you want but the results are clear

>tfw you can come here and post this but if I did the same I would get permabanned from leftypol

>> what exactly makes Socialism & Communism 'bad' systems?

Any monopoly turns to crap. Especially in government.

If a private sector corporate service turns ineffective, then the fix is it either changes its processes, cuts its waste, changes its management and finds efficiencies. If it doesn't do these then it dies; the Circle of Life is complete. The upside is that the customer gets the service they want because they have choice.

If a government service turns ineffective, then the "solution" is more money is poured into it. It becomes more bloated and bureaucratic and more costly. The purpose of the government department becomes to grow and expand, not be cost-effective. The public has no alternative choices so they can suck it....

autism

Capitalism is founded upon the concept of self ownership. Socialism and communism are based upon the state's ownership of the citizenry, an asset to be managed for the benefit of the state. Capitalism will result in those who are best at fulfilling market demands become the wealthiest. Socialism and communism results in those who are best at stealing and murder become the wealthiest.

Capitalism is more efficient. In a world of limited resources, capitalism will more efficiently meet individuals physical needs. Every problem that capitalism has is caused by the lapse of the Christian faith.

>pictured: a fully stocked supermarket shatters a man's faith in communism

Reality OP, reality.

Fascism

Antifascism

Communism kills civilisations, nations and the people within them. Just look at Venezuela, commie paradise right now.

People always act in their interests.

>A works 10. B works 90--> A and B get 50
>B realize that if he works 10 he's still getting 50
>A works 10. B works 10---> ???

>Fascism? The most laughably failed ideology of the 20th century?

Fascism is just re-branded socialism. Mussolini was an ardent Communist newspaper editor. Look him up in Wikipedia.

I don't even buy the "it's an ideal system oh woe is us that we are too flawed to work".
It's fucking evil. It is an evil, vile ideology that's sole only good point is how ironically easy it is to sell to the useful idiots. Imagine waking up and everything you once could count on, is now no longer yours but property of the state.
Your family heirlooms, the wood you chop in the backyard, and the fire you make from it. Everything is considered borrowed and lent from the state, Humanity is secondary to the state.

Commissar Jamal and Eustace will put a bullet in the thin skull of the idiot academics and news-casters who made excuses for it, because they wanted it so desperately to be real. To never work hard again, as the mountains the rich 'stole' would now be theirs by birth-right. Every atrocity excuses because you think it is just the awkward adolescance before things get better, but they won't. And it never will. And in the gulag, you will be conditioned to believe that it was you, not the state that is at fault, because your pride will not accept that what you believe is wrong, but that you are wrong.

Stupid, bloody, dumbass /leftypol/, get the FUCK off my Sup Forums. The flat-earthers have a better case than you, at least no millions died to continue their fantasy.

Typical fascist not being able to spell fascist.

Free markets are a good system
You are free start stat a commune if you want

Because it takes away individual liberty. Fuck that.

>State

There is no state in real communism. Fuck. All of the "Communism" we had last century was State Capitalism. Nothing more, nothing less.

Egalitarianism is the thing that's the most retarded, to be honest. I'd honestly take a non-egalitarian, ethnocentric society with a socialist economic system over what we have today.

That being said, capitalism is just a better and a more efficient system that creates more wealth and opportunity for everyone in general.

Okay, so I am sick of this of people being black and white about 'socialism' v.s. capitalism.

Most people think Socialism is simply the state handing out gibs. While there is some truth to this statement, it is a facile oversimplification.

Think of Socialism as if you are an angel investor, and the people are where you want to place your money in the hope of an economic return.

When the state hands out money it is essentially manipulating people by incentivising certain behaviour over others. Communism is an extreme, just like hyper-capitalist society. It does not discriminate in its financial incentives, whereas capitalism does not discriminate in withholding incentive.

The reason that socialism continues to be debated is because it is more akin a political tool, not an ideology.

You can debate endlessly as to how you enact social policy. Capitalism essentially would rather not try, then fail at the game of socialist policy.

you are a fucking brainwashed moron
what a humiliating post.

>simple-minded board
The board... it's... ALIVE!

youtube.com/watch?v=odhhGmwxZ5I
thoughts?

"I mean, look, sure, it's fallen apart exactly the same way every single time we've tried it and the suffering is almost always unimaginable for people in capitalist societies, but like, man, why is it BAD?"

Communism: Work 12 hours a day and receive no reward, just food, if any available, to survive. Work harder, better than any other but get no more. Create something but get no profit from it. No private ownership of property. Get killed or imprisoned for having an opinion, to resist the system

Capitalism: Earn a reward/paycheck for the job and its' quality. Create something, enjoy the profits, small of big, it is yours. Can own properties, sell or loan them even. Eat as much you can afford. Free elections, freedom of speech, right to gun ownership

Try to beat that

So you are admitting that communism cannot exist in the real world.

THIS THO LOL

What a nice non-argument.

Here's a better question:
If the bankers and capitalists are the enemy, why do you bother trying to fight other regular people you deem to be "fascists" instead of the bankers and capitalists?

How would they fairly distribute the wealth then? Someone would have to have control of it and divide it out. you know... Like the state. Dude, I'm legitimately trying to understand your views. I'm open minded to your ideas I just don't see how that would work. What is it I'm missing here?

NatSoc here.

Capitalism is cancer, however it's merits are such that in order to build an exceptional nation, it must be exploited. This means fair workers representation and liberation, however it also means that private ownership pf business should be kept. Only business that is government approved should exist, and greed should be filtered out of the equation in order to bring to the forefront the one advantage of capitalism; the use of talent.

While I don't believe Marxist socialism is in human nature, it would be hypocritical of the capitalist to say the same. They are only against human nature in that they cherrypick values that they believe ought to be highlighted and inflate their importance and pervasiveness. Socialists overestimate and single out the compulsion to share, give, and work together, whereas capitalism overestimate and single out the compulsion to grow fat and greedy.

Indeed, a way for the human to live naturally would be the way in which the human lives most happily.

That's why NatSoc stands on top of the pile of dead bodes at the hands of communist and the piles of untermench turned fat and useless by capitalism and pisses on you.

>In your opinion, what exactly makes Socialism & Communism 'bad' systems?
Humans/Humanity
But technically Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus made the right decision making a horse a senator

and how would Society work without a state ?
who will embody the Police force ?
Legislature ? Executive ? Judicative ?
who would be the judges ? the doctors ?
who would pay for them ?
Communism just has followers because it sounds so nice
communists think their Utopia is just the next purge away

You'll find that there are as many flavors of communist as there are flavors of autism on /oldpol/.

The reason why people support NS is because they combine socialist policy with the idea of Social Darwinism.

Socialism based on the idea of inequality and excellence, rather than Christian morality, would result in the advancement of the nation.

At least in theory. You still have to work out how to do such a thing.

Communism is impossible to implement. You can't sccurately predict 100% of all needs of every man. Also you're putting in a way of achieving true communism you need to place pretty much absolute power into hands of the communist party and hope they will carry their job instead of setting up authoritarian dictatorship. (Pro tip: History shows that so far 100% of communist states turend into ruthless dictatorships)

Socialism isn't inherently bad. You just need to balance it with capitalism.

OP i have a couple of questions for you questions for you, how old are you?, have you ever had a job? Do you live with your parents/grandparents.

Because Noodle Boy.

youtube.com/watch?v=LBJY6djZ044

The people that support it are basically fucking retarded Noodle Boys

It's not just that either friendo. NatSoc under Hitler didn't completely overhaul the way business was run. In this way the benefit of the bright entrepreneur and the savvy businessman can benefit the nation. The more advantages you give your nation the easier it will be for it to kill millions upon millions of militant communists. Maybe once they are all gone our businesses will become co-ops, but we need strong nations.

I don't care about economics just stop trying to flood my country with shitskins.

Answer my question man. This is one of the biggest things that makes communism shit. The way you guys speak about it makes me feel like I'm missing something. What is it?

Wow. What a terrific argument, I'm convinced.

>Nobody EVER wants to escape capitalism for socialism unless they are running from the law...

Isn't Somalia like libertarian capitalist?

>He thinks the Vangard party is the aim of communism
>He thinks forms of socialism haven't gotten past it

I think you could learn a little from the commies. Many socialist states that have risen up have gotten passed the need for the authoritarian state. That one Luxembourg woman was an example of that. There are also a few others, but even more if you consider the anarchists that pop up every now and then.

tpbp. It really sums it down to what it is. I've noticed that those promoting communism are never the ones who would actually work in that kind of system, they see themselves as the glorious leaders and revolutionaries, ready to take the means and pass out as they see fit.

Almost all modern economies are mixed, incorporating both socialism and capitalism. And that's the way it should be.
Pure socialism is ineffective, unchecked capitalism leads to small group of people taking all the wealth.
Ukraine and Russia are a great example of both these systems. We've lived through socialism, and we had something close to anarcho-capitalism in the 90s. It was bad.
And communism is just a fucking meme. Get it through your thick skull. It literally goes against simple principles of nature. You will never ever achieve a classless society.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_hierarchy

Why was that humiliating? Fucking explain your ideologies instead of saying. "lol Ur dumb". Explain why he's dumb.

You make it bad because you're a faggot
lol
not an argument
etc.

My own existence is all I know, and I'm an entrepreneur. I don't want people to take from my labor without my consent

The end goal of communism is minimal work.

As OP has said in this thread, the Soviet system of communism is literally a demented form of ultra centralized state capitalism. It's an attempt at communism which never got to become communist.

Your boy Lenin realized full on Communism didn't work and that's why he brought back Capitalism, even if it was to a minor degree.

Your view is as unrealistic as religious people talking about heaven

KYS faggot. collective ownership means strong man ownership. Deal with it

You're asking questions that our friend here is not (nor probably ever will be) ready or capable of answering. He fell for the "Sup Forums are a bunch dumb nazis who can't answer questions" and didn't expect us to actually respond with valid questions.

$10 says he doesn't reply, and if he does, it's gonna be a deflection.

How do you evenly distribute the wealth without someone controlling it? Why won't any of you guys answer my damn question?

>Many socialist states that have risen up have gotten passed the need for the authoritarian state.

Like what? There wasn't any successful commie state ever and I mean state, not some hippe commune that is like 2k peaople.

socialism and communism are godless, jewish, systems. It's really no shocker why a wholesome, christian, board like Sup Forums would dislike them.

The primary weakness of communism compared to capitalism is the "all your eggs in one basket" problem. When the government is the single entity in charge of everything, the system is very brittle and prone to breaking catastrophically. One top level mistake can bring the entire system down.

Capitalism is more diverse and strong. Because power is distributed between thousands of corporations both large and small, and between all of the people, the mistakes are smaller and not as devastating to the whole system. If one company makes a terrible error, the impact is minimal and more companies will take its place.

This is like evolution. If you have just one giant organism and it dies, all life dies. If you have billions of smaller organism and many species, it doesn't matter so much if one organism dies or even if half of a species dies. Enough will survive to continue and rebuild.

Results

Capitalism is shit, but Communism and Socialism is shit with a side of vomit

Oh well.

It's natural for the demos to start hating people like you. Typically people don't enjoy those who live among them that don't further the group bar a tenth wage to the government to spend on bullshit.

What you want, assuming the Jews end up loosing their powers of propaganda, is irrelevant. If Marx and Stirner were right about one thing, it's that you guys are the bitch of the proletariat once they wake up.