California isn't the only state wanting to split up. Upstate New York has chafed under the tyranny of New York City for decades.
A separate upstate NY would then have a chance to toss off the choking environmental regulations and crushing tax burden that's been starving that region's economy. Fracking could be legalized. Gun laws would be loosened. It would likely shift some electoral votes to the Republican column.
What say you Sup Forums? Should New York State split up?
Split New York? Why, the Jews want an Israel West or what? A Disney World to their current Middle-Eastern Disneyland?
Yes. Poor people being forced to live under the Jew York yoke
are you retarded, where the fuck is your going to get revenues from, fucking Buffalo?
>Why, the Jews want an Israel West or what?
Upstate NY barely has Jews outside of Albany. Maybe in the university towns, but even so, they're a drop in the bucket compared to what's in NYC.
Adirondack Mountain Kingdom when?
>fracking
Oklahoma bro here. Do you enjoy having earthquakes of substantial size in a state that hasn't had any for years and years? Fracking is bad fuck off
>[U]pstate New York is tethered to New York City, whose residents overwhelmingly support higher taxes, stricter regulation and bigger spending than the national averages. Those policies are blamed for upstate’s economic woes by many in the region. “Basically what you’ve got in New York is a state tax code and regulatory regimen written for New York City,” says Joseph Henchman, vice president for state projects at the Tax Foundation in Washington. “Legislators say, `Look, New York is a center of world commerce. Businesses have to be here. It doesn’t matter how high we tax them.’ I hear that a lot. But when you apply that same logic to upstate, the impact is devastating.”
>where the fuck is your going to get revenues from
You think a welfare economy is a good way to live? If the region could make its own laws, maybe then its economy wouldn't be a blackhole and it could generate its own revenues.
Not to mention, having a tiny tax base would only encourage the new state government to stay small and cheap. That's a plus.
>Fracking is bad fuck off
But apparently not bad enough for you Oklahomans to stop. So maybe Upstate NY can choose to give it a try.
>Upstate New York has chafed under the tyranny of New York City for decades.
What kind of bullshit is that? NYC and the metro area send billions of dollars in taxes to Albany every year, and in exchange upstate politicians tell us what to do.
Please split off. I'll take shitty gun laws if it means NYC taxes get spent on NYC.
[spoiler]It's not like the gun laws here could get much worse.[/spoiler]
>legalizing fracking
Pls no. That shit shouldn't be legal anywhere. That acid leaching into nearby water sources is a horrible thing.
Spitting cities off from the rural parts of states is how us suburban and rural retards ensure we have well-kept roadways, lower taxes, and a greater voice in local politics. You city retards can keep all the state welfare programs and ungodly taxes rates.
I literally don't understand these types of ideas where NYC is sucking the life out of the rest of NY or London from the rest of the UK.
Surely NYC taxes are spent upstate. What's the downside apart from dems being elected?
By this logic, a state like Texas should split apart too. Let's just remove Harris, Travis, and Dallas counties away from Texasistan and make them their own state.
You can't just break down every political boundary into smaller and smaller pieces until you literally have cities standing on their own as independent states.
Also, the tax issue is null when talking about upstate NY. Read about the failed START-UP NY program.
Let's combine the Dakotas, annex Canada, and tell Puerto Rico to fuck off.
Or maybe just sell California and let Australia jump in there.
>and in exchange upstate politicians tell us what to do
No. NYC owns those upstate politicians. Nothing gets done in Albany that the city doesn't want.
NYC is probably going to turn into a de-facto city-state once collapse really gets going, so yes, why not go ahead and there?
>New Amsterdam
>Doesn't include New Amsterdam
New York would keep up to Albany at least.
Though we should be getting a Republican governor soon; does Cuomo think he's actually going to win?
If the Harris, Travis, and Dallas counties are unhappy being part of Texas, then why not discuss a partition? Every political boundary can be broken down until its population is happy with it. And if it's gone too far, that same population is free to discuss uniting with another. Why are we supposed to be slaves to how the map is drawn today?
If that was the case, there'd be traffic cameras everyfuckingwhere in the city.
I hate cameras, but our idiot Mayor Zero Vision loves them.
He could barely hold his own against Zephyr Teachout, and the only reason he's not in jail is because Trump removed Preet Bharara.
The Republicans just need to find a decent candidate and he'll be gone. Hopefully we won't get another Pataki in exchange.
Native NYer here. Upstate and downstate don't hate each other like many think. We suffer from what most places in the US are suffering from, a rusty manufacturing economy shafted by jobs sent overseas. We're pretty lucky we have one of the best cities in the US supporting us.
NYC subsidizes the rest of NYS and the rest of the country...
all americans benefit from NYC $$
>What's the downside apart from dems being elected?
The downside is rules & regulations written for NYC being applied to land that isn't NYC. For instance, companies have to do business in NYC because its a major global financial center. So they will tolerate high taxes. Companies do not have to do business in Buffalo or Oswego. They will not put up with high taxes there. And so the economy of Upstate NY slowly atrophies.
Cuomo is going to run for president in 2020
And he'll lose massively. Thanks to the SAFE Act, he's political poison in half the country.
I have no objection to any of those ideas.
Yes. Anyone north of Westchester is a good for nothing parasite mook who licks the boots of Wall Street - the creators of real value in the state.
Let Cali and NYC secede. They wouldn't win another presidential election for 100 years. Well that ,or until all the people flee from those tyrannical shitholes back to Murica.
Then we can end the banks and kick (((them))) back to their promosed land
>Fracking in New York will effect Oklahoma
You see where your reputation for stupid comes from?
Ya they did great for the country in 2008 and after constantly assfucking us for decades.
Greedy bitches should HANG!
New York State here is still too big. Add Rockland & Westchester County north of Yonkers to New Amsterdam and we got a pretty comfy new state going. Uncucked parts of LI can come too if they want.
You reading comprehension sucks.
free college tuition
15 min wage
12 weeks paid family leave
So, really, just NYC as a city-state?
I dunno about that. Someone living in Suffolk County isn't quite the same as someone Upstate.
I was actually originally thinking about putting all the counties on the Hudson up through to Albany in New York State.
And add Greene county to New York, too :^)
Good idea, but remember that Manhattan provides most of the money for the rest of the state.
I live near syracuse, and when I drive into syracuse for work I get asked for money every god damn day. Also fuck taxes in NY, the death tax is insane.
Fuck the S.A.F.E. Act too.
I line in the city but I was born upstate. I'd support the divorce only if they took their welfare leeching niggers in yonkers and jews from kirya joel with them. Also Suffolk county hates NYC and would stay with the state.
The rest of Illinois wants to split from Chicago for the same reasons. Fuck cities.
DEM CITY FOLK BE KEEPIN US DOWN AND SHEEEIT
Are you serious? Upstate provides power from nuclear reactors, water from the great lakes and food from its agricultural sections.
All upstate would need to do it upcharge all the resources and would be just fine people here would well off.
Move South as I did. Northeast a shit, winter a shit, taxes a shit.
That's why retirees fucking leave.
...
>opponents bitchin' about "free college"
>pay taxes their whole lives for nothing in return
>think this makes them smart
Reeeeeetards.
If the government were smart they'd offer "free college" because it would mean more tax revenue over that persons lifetime.They just don't want a highly educated people ,it goes against their plans.Dumbing people down is a powerful weapon.
Saved.
>Manhattan provides most of the money for the rest of the state
Sure, but if Upstate could set its own regulations and laws, then it could put itself on the path towards economic growth and self sufficiency.
Not to mention, by starting with that small tax base, the new government would be constrained to stay small. That's a good thing to me.
It wouldn't do shit. Upstate NY is fucked due to deindustrialization. Seceding from the city wouldn't bring any jobs back. It would probably hurt them in the long run, as most of the wealth and tax revenue comes from the city and is transferred to the rest of the state. Not to mention that NYC owns a good portion of the Catskills to protect the city's water supply. They're not just going to give that up.
Do it. They're like two different states anyway. Could help take away NYCs electoral pull.
You people act like you cant cross state lines to go to jobs lmaoooo imbeciles! Millions do it everyday!!
From Upstate New York and I know many people that would love this including myself. Fuck off NYC
Try living on long island you fucking worthless shit head
Yeah, people ain't gonna give up their guns for that.
Truth. Though we'll see how NYS stab at it works. I don't trust Cuomo or the state government to craft something good.
The state could break in two with NYC still holding their legal water rights in what ever you want to call the rest of the state.
But it's more likely that NYC/S will extend into the Catskills.
Why should upstate have to change it's name? They get to stay NY, and the part around the city can become a district, like Washington. Cheaper, easier to accomplish. They can be NY D.N.Y.
Why should the City have to change it's name? No one in the world hears "New York" and thinks about upstate.
Plus, Manhattan is New York County, so the name ain't ever leaving the City.
Rocfag reporting in, when do we cut out NYC and make the Great State of Niagara a reality?
>cross state lines to go to jobs
Are you retarded enough to suggest someone in say, Utica or Syracuse, commute daily to a job in another state?
>Great State of Niagara
Now that's a great name! I wish I thought of that.
>why should i have to change my name? he's the one who sucks.
new new york shud fight for freedum and leave us.a it would be the best for all
new amsterdam would be nice to have
this way there is no need for new flags with a added star
that would save up the cost of the GDP of years by new amsterdam
Can't say I came up with it, heard it on here and around the city before. A lot of boomers are all for the idea around here.
>implying new york will let the pure mountain water that support them to leave
This guy is like a new york lincoln
Obviously not. I was replying to the guy that acted like ditching NYC would mean no city money would be coming that way. Like it would be surrounded by a big,beautiful wall. Which isn't such a bad idea..
NYC is fucked when Indian Point melts down one day. 1 hour away ! Wooo! Radiation poisoning!!!!
NYC owns those water rights, the state splitting won't change that.
Not going to melt down, but a terrorist trying to fly a plane into it is a real possibility.
Collin county here. I approve ejecting Dallas county from Texas
I can look out my window and see the vapor stacks at Three Mile Island. We're all fucked in the event of EMP from the sun or some shit.
New yorker, West chester County. If this would split I would be In NY and not New Amsterdam. The changing of properties, rights, new laws, new addresses, and all things related to granting state hood for new Amsterdam, including all government officials and Government jobs would fuck over Not only NY but New Amsterdam to a whole new level. Border Disputes being probably the biggest one. And what about congressional districts? Their would be like 5 new Districts divided between NA and NY that it would be such hell that just isn't necessary. Also, The state capitol would be in New Amsterdam, what the fuck would NYs new capitol be? NYC? Or would the people argue that it should be in Long island or upper west chester/ rockland county? It would take years to format this it would make zero sense
Sounds like republican/conservative gerrymandering to me.
New Congressional districts are drawn every few years. That's not a big deal. NY and New Amsterdam (or Niagara) can just redraw them.
Albany can be the provisional capital of New Amsterdam. When they get together to write their state constitution, they can keep it or change it if they like. The New Yorkers can debate at the split where they want to put their capitol. Choosing a new capitol hardly seems like an insurmountable problem.
Now, regarding those border disputes, I'm curious to hear more about that. What disputes are there across the county lines? Those seem to be pretty well delineated currently so where would the conflict erupt from?
Good questions!
My guesses:
A split would probably happen at the beginning of a decade, the same time that post-census congressional redistricting happens. That avoids the problem of split congressional districts.
NYC/S new capital should logically be in Manhattan, but I could certainly see it put in Suffolk or Rockland or something to keep everything from being too NYC-centric.
I would only imagine that the borders would actually cut through county lines, causing the breaking of towns and counties to different states, which actually brings me back to congressional districts. Yes new ones are drawn every few years but where would they be? what new counties would be in place? Couldn't the state of New York claim that that all these counties belonged to us? And then wouldn't all representatives from said districts would lose their representation? I couldn't imagine the legal troubles that the border disputes of where the cut off would be, and since NY gets so much revenue off of big tourist attractions such as the Appalachians, Catskills, and Niagara falls. They could claim that its a landmark to The state of New York and refuse to give it up. Also with such legal troubles, a constitutional convention could be put into play to amend the rights that NY has upon its jurisdiction.
Spent the first 20 years of my life in upstate NY, and it's true. Leaving was the best choice I've made for myself
NYC is a hellhole of degenerates, but the vast majority of the state is actually beautiful, and full of hard working people. Sadly the cost of living, the taxes, the piles upon piles of corruption and bullshit, and a vast array of other issues just cripple the state and it's people.
The fucked part is that even liberals hate it, which is funny because it's a state that is a product of their agenda. It's a shitty place, and fucking cold
Upstate here.
wall when
We wouldn't need revenue from NYC if we had laws that actually accounted for agricultural upstate and lowered the goddamn business taxes clearly made for the city.
cuomo just put hundreds of millions into dairy and they left with the money after a couple months. Same story everywhere.
Apparently New York has the highest amount of vote fraud too. highest estimates range around 10%. highest corruption rate outside DC as well
Once again, this is an awesome idea BTW, and its actually could be a good idea in the long run, and you guys make an awesome argument for it!
As someone who lives Upstate in a county where all the small towns that use to be nice are ghost towns filled with white trash welfare scumbags
PISS OFF and take the NYC dick up your ass with you
that would be good.
bump
How would you deal with liberal Ithaca?
t. Cornellfag
No, the borders don't have to cut through county lines. The map I posted at the top is drawn with Westchester and Rockland Counties serving as the northern most border of the new New York State. I don't see a need to complicate things by splitting the state below the county level, unless there was some major outcry.
Anyway, regarding Congressional Districts, the point I want to make is that there are regular procedures for redrawing those. So even though I don't have a map to post with a proposed answer, it's not as if the question isn't solvable.
I don't think there would be a landmark/trademark dispute with the State of New York. The new Upstate would have its own name, so its not going to promote those attractions under the State of NY name.
I guess for the sake of discussion, we'll have to postulate that a split was agreed on, and figure out what the workable details are.
Judging from this thread, city folks and upstaters alike support the split, because it advantages both.
>The fucked part is that even liberals hate it, which is funny because it's a state that is a product of their agenda.
A lot of the state's political problems come from the way the state government is set up in the state constitution. The "Three Man in a Room" system benefits politicians at the expense of not only the citizens, but the political parties themselves.
The number of state politicians who've been thrown in jail the last few years, from both parties, is testimony to that.
Which reminds me, all you New Yorkers in this thread should get out to vote this November in the off-year election, to support the NYS Constitutional Convention.
It's on the ballot every 20 years, so if we don't do it now, we'll have to wait a generation.
>Apparently New York has the highest amount of vote fraud too. highest estimates range around 10%.
Sauce?
>highest corruption rate outside DC as well
No question.
Hmm interesting rebuttal, gotta hand it to you, Ya got me stumped. Nice job man!
>How would you deal with liberal Ithaca?
I would let the new state Constitutional Convention debate whether to keep it, or build a wall around it and burn it to the ground.
>burn it to the ground.
all for this desu
can we also annexed the Philippines and Cuba again?
Goddamn, that's a powerful argument in favor of burning it down.
It's great to have an interesting, thought-out discussion with someone online. Kudos man!
push all those fuckers into the gorge.
just like all the Cornell an heros
>free college
SUNY and CUNY only
Family Must make under 125,000 a year
Must take 15 credits a semester
Must stay in NYS for 3-4 years upon graduating
>15 an hour
Only in non fast food or tip paying jobs
>12 weeks leave
Ok I guess
Really? Then why are property taxes fucking insane in Monroe County? $3,000/year for a $65,000 864 sq. ft home? Fuck off.
hold up let me find it for ya
bumping to keep it alive
sure why not
It's not the fracking itself that causes the earthquakes, it's the disposal wells. Why does this need to be repeated every single day.
i grew up in hudson valley about and hour from the city and live in western new york now.
I think nyc policies negatively affect the suburbs outside the city more. My hometown has businesses fail all the time and the housing prices are through the roof. They don't even have a chipotle. shit is depressing
Can't find it but remember it being related to the huge illegal vote in nyc. Now all I can find are trump vote rigging claim related "drumpf btfo" articles
New York state minus New York City may as well be fucking Arkansas.
upstate with NYC is arkansas without guns and higher taxes
It always amazes me how so many NYC-ers seem to assume just being near them is a blessing.