Vietnam

Do you think the United States would have been victorious in Vietnam if support for the war at home was high? Is there any reason to claim that the United States could have come out with a decisive victory?

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the USA basically won the war but the ARVN gave their country away because they were a bunch of fucking retards

I think it's also fair to point out that we were only there because the French got fucking rekt and had to go bail them out...Again.

Vietnam
>tactical victories
>undermined by strategic vaguery

//thread

Its amazing how many times our soldiers end up fighting harder than the fucking people that we are trying to help. This seems to happen a lot. Really makes me think.

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I find it incredibly disappointing that no candidate with combat experience in Vietnam became President. So many of that generation got away with weaselling out of their duty and went on to great careers in politics. Even those who did see combat and went into politics were always attacked on their war record, by both sides. Anyway I am an outsider to it all but it seems wrong to me.

>would have been victorious
they already were though

Nah, but the vets would get the respect they deserve at least.

How would US be victorious short of an ongoing occupation?

>Vietnam
>Do you think the United States would have been victorious in Vietnam if support for the war at home was high? Is there any reason to claim that the United States could have come out with a
>decisive victory?

>m.youtube.com/watch?v=dHV8Wzldlck

No

>
>Its amazing how many times our soldiers end up fighting harder than the fucking people that we are trying to help. This seems to happen a lot. Really makes me think.

Many such cases

In the 60s, Soviet and US tech was pretty damn close and the VC were being supplied up the ass by Russia.

Unlike in Syria, we were fighting a proxy war using our own people. Even if we won against commies, we would have had to occupy which probably would've been more losing.

It's because Vietnam is a dark spot in American history and it's like shammed by the liberal left. That's why those era of soldiers are not glorified like they are today.

THIS IS THE END
MY ONLY FRIEND
THE END

It was a major blow to the whole " fuck commies" movement. And didn't come back till Reagan.

More HD

> implies america could never win over the zipperheads because...

Donovan Lietch
a UK citizen born and raised in scotland, performing a hippie dippie peacenik song inspired by (like all of his songs) a massive drug binge

> kraut logic
> bosch education
> filthy bundists

enjoy prepping mustafa and living in your cuckshed.

Pretty obvious now that the people there didn't deserve America's help. Kind of niggerish of them to complain about America not supporting the ARVN after 50,000 troops sacrificed and over a decade of material support.

What outcome did (((they))) want though considering (((they))) invented communism and undermined every chance they got using their media?

No, we were never willing to invade North Vietnam, therefore we were never willing to win the war. Vietnam was a massive waste unless you consider thousands of Americans dying for the sake of it maybe discouraging other Asian countries from becoming communist being worth it.

You did fucked up the gooks and won every battle, the VC was basically gone after Tet offensive. So you did won Vietnam war in tactical terms but cuz your stupid people back home you "lost". Also the ARVN was shit and low-tier as fuck. Thats why the were over-runed by the NV. People tend to forget that the whole war was defensive playground.

>lesson learned?

Should have nuke'd NV and China

The US lost the war the minute their first soldier or bomb touched the ground in Nam.

It was an ideological war against communism. Since the commies were seen as the defenders of the country from the foreign invaders, their ranks swelled. It was like the Hydra, for every one you killed three more joined up.

The South may have been able to win the civil war (with American support), but that became an impossibility as soon as the US showed up, since they were seen as collaborators by the majority of the population.

As a result of this war, not only did Vietnam become communist (which it still is to this day), but Laos and Cambodia as well. Literally could not have had a worse result. Went from one country falling to three.

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Define victory.

Is victory to maintain the independence of the Republic of Vietnam in the face of Northern Communist aggression? Accomplished, South Vietnam was never overrun while the US was fighting.

Or is victory to defeat NVA, and conquer North Vietnam and incorporate it into a Western-leaning Republic of Vietnam? Invasion and utter destruction of the North Vietnamese state would likely be in breach of international law could escalate the Cold War with possible Soviet or Red Chinese counter action.

Or would victory entail mediating the conflict and negotiate a compromise between South, North, and US to withdraw forces and hold elections and begin reunification. However with the Cold War Dynamics of the good Al chess board of super power competition that play, I doubt the Soviets would have allowed the fledgling Communist state in Vietnam to be left to the whim of an internationally monitored election.

Vietnam War was a filthy mess. The USA probably should have never been involved. My two cents is that we could have defeated the communists, Vietnamese or otherwise, through the use of atomic weapons. I believe not nuking China during the Korean war was a terrible mistake.

Global, not good ai

Yeah. We could have just razed the country and rebuilt it as a US territory without trying to convince a bunch of impoverished gooks that a government based on gibs is doomed to fail.

Discouraging other nations from going Communist? Two other neighboring countries, Laos and Cambodia, went red during the US's presence. The war in Southeast Asia had a massive destabilizing effect, wherein guerilla networks were deprived of operating space within North Vietnam by the US, and sought refuge in neighboring nations. Politics stateside inhibited American military forces from directly engaging spillover forces in neighboring countries, allowing the problem of guerillas to fester and spread. Same problem US has had with Islamic militias during bush and Obama years operating in Syria and Pakistan

People like to think if we did nothing it'd spread further. I don't really agree with assessment, no reason to go full autist.

Only if they had been willing to fight the USSR in a direct conflict.

The US forces had the vietcong completely expelled from south vietnam at one point. The USSR then threatened war, should the US invade either Cambodia or North Vietnam, where the vietcong regrouped and rearmed themselves.

President Lyndon B. Johnson had a peace conference with the south and north at the time, hoping to make a peace before the war weariness of the USA would ruin his poll numbers. His political opponent, one Richard Nixon, told the north Vietnamese that, if they would sabotage the peace conference, he could guarantee their victory, once he won the upcoming election.

As a result of the direct threat of the USSR against the US, the US switched their gobal military intervention policy to a more proxy war based one.

>good Al chess board of super power competition
This still made sense to me.

Victory as in conquer and hold North Vietnam? Doubtful. At best it would have been a North Korea/South Korea, West Germany/East Germany kind of deal.

North Vietnam would have ended up a shitty Chinese client state and South Vietnam would have been a relatively more prosperous American client state. Not as prosperous as South Korea or West Germany because SEA niggers have lower IQs but prosperous enough to maybe make the north Vietnamese want to adopt capitalism at some point - which they've more or less already done.

But that would have meant tons of money and personnel in a country that wouldn't really provide a lot of strategic benefits since we already have/had bases and troops in Japan, Korea, Thailand, the Philippines, Guam etc. The fall of South Vietnam meant a large influx of Vietnamese refugees which was bad but at least it was just one time. Whereas if the US stuck around another 40 years I'll bet that would have been worse immigration wise.

If Vietnam had gone nuclear and full totalitarian, maybe in retrospect it would have been worth propping up South Vietnam, but now that Vietnam is becoming more and more capitalist and isn't exactly friends with China, it's not a bad outcome. For reasons of national pride I wish the US would have invaded North Vietnam but that would have meant taking on China directly. The US lost the chance to take out non-nuclear Communist China during the Korean War so it definitely wasn't going to happen versus a now nuclear China in the Vietnam War.

And for what? A third world backwater country?

If only Johnson's quote had been reality:

"We are not about to send American boys 9 or 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves"

delet this

Not even the brass supported the war,Vietnam vets are disrespected by the home front and leadership for not fully supporting the war. The question you want is do you know the real reason USA pulled out?

Of course. The US military in spite of absurd rules of engagement kicked the shit out of the NVA and Viet-Cong. In cases where the enemy went all out against the US (khe-sanh) they got their asses handed to them. Fuck, the Tet offensive, which was an operation directly from the Communist manual of ending a war victoriously was a military evisceration of the north after which the Viet-Cong were no longer an effective fighting force.

I'm convinced the entire anti-war movement was financed via the communists. Control the media, control the students, control the narrative, say all hope is lost and the US just lost the will to win.

The left in the US really is at most a pile of shit.

It wasn't the lack of support that lost them the war its the retarded tactics. They would fight hard kill all the gooks and capture an area, just to leave a few days later. For charlie to come back and recapture the area.


This and many other tactical errors the top brass ignored or did nothing about, cost them the war.