If vertical and indoor urban farming become effective and efficient technologies employed en masse...

If vertical and indoor urban farming become effective and efficient technologies employed en masse, what will happen to rural and small suburban areas when many people are no longer needed for agriculture and people are forced to move to cities?

Interesting thread! Bump

I'm not sure if it would be possible to sustain an entire city on something like this. I mean I guess that rural areas would probably become even more self sustaining in nature, and the rift between RURAL AND SUBURBAN people and city folk would grow.

>you can grow wheat and corn indoors using fluorescent lights

traditional farmed veggies are healthier and tastier.

has to do with stress factors which make the plants produce more secondary plant substances like vitamins and flavonoids. agro- and hydroponic plants will always be pleb tier in direct comparison to traditional farmed plants (which have a much lower yield ofc).

They'll keep existing because it's cheaper and better

>agro-
aero-
:^)

agroecology. they could be used them to reverse climate change and earth degradation

Best case they would be left alone and can become natural habitat again. Also its not like farming today would be done by your small local farmer bob for the most part. I will certainly dont weep big agrar.
Also
>Not growing your own food already

this.

>have all this land available
>"how about we go for some more complex alternative instead?"

You can.

It's just horribly expensive and, given the low market price of wheat, you would never get your investment back.

still will need normal farms for livestock

>they could be used them to reverse climate change and earth degradation
By using artificial light, which need electricity... which currently comes in good part from fossil fuel ?

Grow the crops themselves ultracheap in rural areas, you fucking dumb cuck!

but user, vegan ersatz-meat is cheap... I mean healthier. why don't you go vegan, goy?

Again, depends how cheap we can grow vertically whatever you want to feed your lifestock with.

I could definitly see factory-style farms for livestock, where water would come through plumbing while food would be brough from the cities.

But yes, short term, we'll keep using the land, simply because the sun is still a cheaper source of heat for those plants and real estate ain't cheap in the cities.

Vertical farming would only be useful if you had no land to farm (in the middle of a city for example)

There's a good chance lab-grown meat will become a thing and be much, much cheaper than normal organically raised meat while causing much less environmental impact and costing less. If that happens then there will be no need for large-scale livestock farming.

This will never become profitable, notice how they only ever grow leafy greens (lettuce in this pic) in these things. You never see potatoes, corn, rice, or any of our staple crops growing under LED's indoors. Leafy greens need 1/50th of the light intensity to grow as your average staple crop does to produce fruit.
You can't sell that pound of potatoes or corn for more than the $50+ in electricity it took to grow it (this is assuming some of the cheapest electricity in the western world, ~6 cents per KW/h). Also, the newest generation of LED's are typically expensive, and contrary to popular belief don't last forever.

t. electrical engineer who is currently making a small fortune consulting for indoor grow rooms

Once again the liberals don't give a shit about feed the world bullshit.

Singapor says hello.
It wants its food security.

So does most of the Middle East, since cultivating the normal way would ask for MASSIVE efforts but also more importantly for HUGE consumption of water... which they don't have much.
They have loads of fossil fuel and therefor energy is cheap for them. Water and fertile lands aren't.

They are pushing this urban vs rural hard aren't they?
Sorry liberals, even when you manage to wall off NYC and San Francisco, you'll still have to share a continent with us icky normies.

>vertical gardening
>urban gardening
>hydroponic gardening
>raised bed gardening
>mulch gardening

Hippies get out. And lay off the ganja.

Indoor and vertical farming can be useful in space and underground bunkers.

>urban cucks thinking vertical farming lettuce makes them "sustainable"
Jesus these fucking people.

give me some advice to setup a grow room then

They also grow strawberries.
The price per kg is much higher than "leafy greens", which makes it a profitable venture.
At least not less profitable than growing the same strawberries under glasshouses in the countryside and then transporting them for hundreds of miles.

my penis if everyone was (or almost) self sufficient
kikes would get btfo

How many Jew scalps have you collected?

vertical farming will not be viable for atleast the next 100 so there's no need to worry about it

The cities are the prisons. Trendy faggots dont get the real message of 1984 and Brave New World. The only free people were the outsiders. The proles could drink have sex do what they want because they couldn't affect change. The police state was for party members like Winston Smith. The controllers and clones in BNW were the prisoners. The savages on the reservations were free.

Hur dur how can cheap businesses compete with ones that require higher operating costs? Farm companies will go bankrupt

>Trendy faggots dont get the real message of 1984 and Brave New World.
They don't get ANY message from 1984 and Brave New World

The sun is a free source of energy and until we find another free source of energy there will always be farming out in the fields.

What do you mean 'when'?

And yet they buy it en masse and post pictures of their copy of it to social media. Sooooooooooooo, "conscious and aware."

What size, and budget?
You know why they grow strawberries? Because the entire plant is less than 4 inches tall. Relatively low power LED's can produce enough light if placed inches away. Light intensity drops off in an inverse square, so doubling the distance yields you 1/4 of the light output.

It would not be possible to do this without intense LED's on tall plants, like corn. An individual corn plant would require several hundred watts of LED's, going for 14+ hours per day, every day for 3+ months. It's simply not economically feasible.

Like to see you try to raise cattle indoors. Post webms of your attempts. Please.

The people pushing things like this are vegetarians/vegans with a political agenda. They use the "look how much more efficiently you use land when you farm it instead of raising cattle on it" argument in an effort to reduce amd eventually eliminate meat consumption.

>source - my (actual) Jewish sister in law with an environmental science ba who goes on retarded crybaby rants against my dad and I for raising cattle and pork at family get-togethers.

It will happen when we invest in 4th gen nuclear and thorium, and when we build an orbital ring and start producing space-based solar power. Indoor agriculture means no pesticides or farm runoff. It also lets you grow food in places with poor soil quality, so it would literally save millions of lives.

That's before we get to the 0% taxes and 20% economic growth stuff...

hps vs led for weed? i know what i think. let me hear a pros opinion.

It's profitable to do it where I live (can't grow crops for more than 6 months a year and low electricity prices).

Automation, lower risk (no hail storm can kill all your crops) and the fact that you can sell your products at a slightly higher price because you didn't use any pesticides make it profitable.

>It's simply not economically feasible
For now

>against industrial livestock farming
>totally fine with industrial human farming, aka cities

Depends on electricity prices. Once we get 4th gen nuclear and a space elevator, it will be common.

This depends entirely on your budget, and your mechanical skills. A $120 600 watt hps setup (air cooled hood, dig ballast) is hard to beat for setup costs. But if you can solder and can justify the expense, a COB setup with Cree 3590's will certainly outperform it, and by a significant margin assuming you aim for a similar 600 watt draw from the wall.

A 630 watt lec will outperform them both though. CMH is amazing technology.

Not webms but there you go.

The whole raising and milking is already done indoors in some farms in Belgium.
Poland does it even more.

LEDs work too. Those are actually quite efficient in growing plants and make it actually profitable since

1. vertical means more plant per space
2. indoor means no need for pesticides
3. less unuseable plants due controlled envrioment
4. Any plant can be grown at any time, not dependency on seasons.
5. can be applied in you own fallout vault

There's a difference between "free" and "efficient".

If you got :
- fertile lands
- just the right amount of sun
- just the right amount of rain
- no big temperature variation

Then yes, it's gonna be hard to concurrence traditionnal farming methods for stapple food.

Baring that, the price of electricity stops being the only variable to consider.

That's not going to work out. A switch to indoor farming of veggies will simply free up prairie lands for cattle grazing.

>2. indoor means no need for pesticides
This is 100% incorrect. In fact, due to lack of predators, problem insects can reproduce significantly more rapidly than outdoors, leading to infections spreading to entire crops, sometimes in a matter of days. Every single indoor garden currently running now uses tons of pesticides for this very reason.

I don't see why not being able to grow certain crops like corn is the end of it, it could just mean that it's much more economical then to grow foods like fresh fruits and vegetables in cities and people can eat more of those in their diet which are healthier anyway as opposed to potatoes or rice, etc.

>indoor farming

Dumb and inefficient. Future is in vat-grown biomass which is then processed into foodstuffs

No need for expensive and complicated robots for planting/harvesting
No need for special racks or buildings. An old tank in some abandoned factory will do just fine
Doesn't need lighting. Just keep pumping nutrients and your crop is fine

They should be killed.

If the aim is efficiency and price isn't a problem, yes, vertical farming is an option.
So you are correct : it's perfect for a fallout vault scenario if energy supply isn't an issue.

As for growing in current conditions inside a city, the problem (in addition to electricity price) is real estate price :
A few hundred square meters in a big city can cost as much as vast fields in the countryside.
Sure, you'll grow your food on several floors but you'll need to build those floors, which further add to the initial investment and therefor to your production costs.
In the end, unless real estate prices suddenly collapsed, it wouldn't be easily profitable, safe for a few select food with high market price... as is the case already.

The point being that it's currently not only more profitable to ship people fresh fruit in vegetables in cities than to produce them locally, but significantly so, aside from a select few crops such as lettuce, herbs, and strawberries.

It's a neat idea that has a nice market, and only exists now with heavy government subsidies.

the fault of envrioment design. mostly they just use any building with not protection against any insects. think in terms of isolated space and what I said is true.

If you don't take out a bunch of ribs and eat it while she does it, I have no respect for you.

niche market*

>being worse at Aryan values and caring less than a jew
congrats

>and only exists now with heavy government subsidies
Unlike regular farming ?

Rural and suburban retard who voted for Trump here. This won't ever replace large field farming.

They both get funding. One of them gets an order of magnitude more funding than the other and still can't eek out a profit in anywhere but the most expensive areas of the most expensive cities in the world.

Its like with govt. Every intervention requires more interventions.Where will the water come from to feed the plants especially in a vertical system?

Thank the Omnissiah

You basically can't build a building as cheap as flat farmland, especially in countries like your own, where 90% of the country is basically empty land of which a good part is fertile

What happened to the Space Elevator threads?

No, definitely not for all crops as has been discussed before, although it's possible certain niche vegetables and fruits could be cheaper produced in such a way, and would not need to be transported to cities either and could just be purchased on site. In the Netherlands, which is much more crowded than the US it's possible that it could work better.

>power out
>lights out
>plants die
>well thought out Maoism strikes again (everyone starves)

True, the Netherlands are the market leader in hydroponics/greenhouse agriculture, but they aren't really vertical and still use a lot of space. They are mainly used for year-round production and crops that could normally not grow here. There's like half a province (Westland) that's basically covered in glass

>year-round production

Dutch glasshouse tomatoes taste like shit

Why is outdooor grown so much tastier?

Could be for multiple reasons, but growing tomatoes outdoors here would be financial suicide.

Plus they don't taste like shit, Dutch produce is best produce

>He doesn't already produces food for himself
Nex you are going to tell me you are still eating products with corn syrup in it

>Dutch produce is best produce

When did you eat an outside grown tomato last time?