>If someone is addicted to a product, is it a voluntary exchange? >Since a person's income will almost entirely determine their standard of living, is the relationship between the employer and the employee still voluntary? >How would an ancap society handle climate change, pandemics, and other catastrophic events that can be caused by human negligence? >How will artistic value be preserved without patents, copyright, and anti-piracy laws? >When automation makes the vast majority of low and mid skill labor obsolete, how would an ancap society function with most people left without an income? >Would corporate culture resemble anything like it is now in America and Europe? >Since there is no dead weight loss and productive incentives with a Georgist tax system, would it be an acceptable system for the benefit of a citizen's dividend and effective land management?
>If someone is addicted to a product, is it a voluntary exchange?
define addiction. Lots of things can induce addictive behavior such as video games and the internet. It is a highly complex question you should ask a psychologist.
If you ask about alcohol adddiction or drug addictions it is not up to the government to decide what someone puts into his body and what not.
>Since a person's income will almost entirely determine their standard of living, is the relationship between the employer and the employee still voluntary?
Yes it is still voluntary. Welfare by the government isn't an excuse. In fact it makes the worker or employee way more valuable to the employer because he can't just outright abuse him like crazy cause that will end up costing him employees, attract the worst employees or simply put him on the edge of going out of business.
We aren't in the early 19th century anymore where factory workers can abuse local workers that have no means of escaping. It does not work like that in a globalist economy thats ultra mobile.
>How would an ancap society handle climate change, pandemics, and other catastrophic events that can be caused by human negligence?
The same it does now. Right now humanitarian agencies, non profit orgs usually pull the biggest loads under these circumstances. Why would a society be interested in letting a natural disaster occur and have long lasting effects on its own economy? Makes no sense no way you want to put it.
>How will artistic value be preserved without patents, copyright, and anti-piracy laws?
Define "artistic value". The chinese economy is almost patent free - thats how it puts out all these fakes of fakes of fakes for super low prices today which is a good thing. Theres a good documentary on Wired about Shenzen. Watch it.
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Elijah Rivera
>>Would corporate culture resemble anything like it is now in America and Europe? Without the ability to lobby the government for political favors it would be a much better environment.
>How will artistic value be preserved without patents, copyright, and anti-piracy laws? Patents and IP etc... are just a scam that the bureaucracy uses to make money. It's not about protecting what you created, rather protecting yourself from getting sued for retarded shit all made up and by design.
>When automation makes the vast majority of low and mid skill labor obsolete, how would an ancap society function with most people left without an income? Social Darwinism, worst case scenario riots and war breaks out but these people will die out either way.
Rest of your questions besides the manmade disasters one are stupid and ill let someone else handle that one.
Brayden Miller
>>When automation makes the vast majority of low and mid skill labor obsolete, how would an ancap society function with most people left without an income?
Technology historically makes new jobs available we can't even think of right now. The service economy and people who work with their "minds" in an office create jobs people would have never thought will ever exist as little as 30 years ago.
You can only fall for this meme when you heavily believe in marxists underconsumptionism. Which is complete non sense.
If nobody has a job - who is going to buy a product? Producers and Owners have an interest in having people that can actually afford and buy their products.
>Would corporate culture resemble anything like it is now in America and Europe?
statism is corporate culture since corporates lobby the government and abuse it for their own gain and there is nothing the individual can do about it. In a free market however every move by a corporation can get punished heavily cause its left with no protection from the state and its army. See Samsung and South Korea. Samsung literally owns South Korea and its government and drains the country.
>>Since there is no dead weight loss and productive incentives with a Georgist tax system, would it be an acceptable system for the benefit of a citizen's dividend and effective land management?
Georgism is dishonest. Its market capitalism and just a big fat meme. Anything else you tell yourself is nothing but a delusion on your part. Just be honest i mean cmon. You can't have it all at once and pretend it'll work somehow.
Cameron Miller
>>If someone is addicted to a product, is it a voluntary exchange? Free will is still a thing. >>Since a person's income will almost entirely determine their standard of living, is the relationship between the employer and the employee still voluntary? Come up with a better product and become the boss. >>How would an ancap society handle climate change, pandemics, and other catastrophic events that can be caused by human negligence? Loaded question. >>How will artistic value be preserved without patents, copyright, and anti-piracy laws? Good question >>When automation makes the vast majority of low and mid skill labor obsolete, how would an ancap society function with most people left without an income? Income is a representation of the value of product produced. Grow your own food if you can't afford to pay processes food. >>Would corporate culture resemble anything like it is now in America and Europe? Would a frog still bump it's ass if it has wings? Who knows! >>Since there is no dead weight loss and productive incentives with a Georgist tax system, would it be an acceptable system for the benefit of a citizen's dividend and effective land management? I'm not familiar with georgism to be able to answer that. Also, I'm not an ancap.
Parker Rivera
damn I was gonna reply but these guys did really well.
also worth noting that corporations only exist de jure and therefore cant exist in ancapistan
Connor Gonzalez
>define addiction. Addiction as in you're addicted to cocaine or heroin. If a person becomes addicted to a drug for example, how would it be voluntary if the individual is pretty much compelled to buy more of the drug? A serious drug problem emerges with no incentive for the person or business selling the drugs to sell amounts just below the point where one would OD and kill off their customers.
>We aren't in the early 19th century anymore where factory workers can abuse local workers that have no means of escaping. What's stopping an ancap society from degenerating was past the 19th century to feudal times? With a disposable work force due to no unionization and technological advancement, why wouldn't the employer try and get away with as much bullshit as possible to undercut competition that is more generous to its employees with salary and benefits?
>Why would a society be interested in letting a natural disaster occur and have long lasting effects on its own economy? You can ask that about current economies now. The answer is economic growth and the costs of upgrading to green tech.
>Define "artistic value". A painting at which people would pay $100 for based on the quality of the painting as an example, but applies especially toward digital drawings which can be copied and pasted. >thats how it puts out all these fakes of fakes of fakes for super low prices today which is a good thing. This just reveals an inherent inefficiency with Capitalism as a whole: marketing. A lot of money goes to brands and shelf space, and without it anybody can wait around for someone to make something then mass produce a bunch of lower quality versions.
>If nobody has a job - who is going to buy a product? Producers and Owners have an interest in having people that can actually afford and buy their products. Externalities are not accounted for as a cost in Capitalism let alone Anarcho-Capitalism.
Dominic Rivera
>developed by Anaarkei really makes you think
Cooper Morgan
someone ran the risk of addiction by voluntarily consuming drugs. Also, just because ancap doesn't mean there's no help for them.
Workers NECESSARILY CAN NOT BE EXPLOITED by employers if the contract of employment is voluntarily consented with by both parties. that is the definition of voluntary (>pic related). and if one party commits fraud, then that is exploitation and violates the NAP
Isaac Ortiz
didnt post the related pic sorry
Leo Nelson
I have a question. Since it is anarchy, and everyone is free, what will stop people from forming a communist state? Or back into any type of state for that matter? Over time people's ideologies shift and an ancap community requires everyone to want it. if a group of people reach critical pop they will form another state.
William Wright
they can form whatever state they want, as long as it's outside ancapistan
James Diaz
If they reach critical pop and form a highly trained military, what stops then from enslaving neighboring communities?
Dylan Wood
they can't form a highly trained military to fight capitalists when ancapistan already has well established security contractors that can easily physically remove them
Colton Johnson
I don't care as long as no one forces me to participate in the finance of possible solutions
Oliver Baker
I'll just order a McNuke from Nukes R' Us and use it against the NAP violators
Gabriel Taylor
Alright, but there isn't a single big established contractor, but rather many smaller ones. lets take a hipothetical: in an ancap society I'm free to do what I will if I'm not huting anyone, lets say I make a collectivist society with a military within "ancapistan". Since I am not initiating aggression security physically removing anyone who wants to form such a thing is violating the nap. And so if you form such a militia, there is a point in growth where it will surpass all security contractors in power. how will "ancapistan" deal with such a thing?
Jacob Turner
There are anti missile systems, and I doubt you will be able to afford more then one.
Joshua Smith
lol fuck y'all
Adrian Jones
>someone ran the risk of addiction by voluntarily consuming drugs People become addicted from the prescriptions doctors give them. A doctor can prescribe one person opiates for example and then it snowballs and the whole community can have a spike in addiction rates. Also, since there's nothing stopping parents from abusing drugs around their kids, kids are more likely to follow their parents and grow the issue. >Also, just because ancap doesn't mean there's no help for them. Didn't say there wouldn't. There's plenty of clinics that do good work that aren't state owned, but there is coercion involved since a drug addict will choose the high every time instead of getting help.
> Workers NECESSARILY CAN NOT BE EXPLOITED by employers if the contract of employment is voluntarily consented with by both parties. that is the definition of voluntary (>pic related). and if one party commits fraud, then that is exploitation and violates the NAP The contract means nothing unless it can be negotiated and individuals do not have the leverage to do so since the employer can pick out the most desperate people to hire.
Owen Wilson
1. >pic related 2. Militant communism violates the NAP. It can do whatever the fuck it wants outside the walls of ancapistan, but it's gotta go
Chase Martinez
You're constructing an extreme scenario that would be very unlikely to happen in any realistic sense. To answer your question, those security contractors, if they are worth their salt, would not be surpassed so easily, and, in the case of growing threats that, as unlikely as it would be, could surpass them, would form an agreement of some sort in order to respond to aggression.
Kayden Gutierrez
no matter the source of the drugs, it's an issue of self responsibility, and exists in the same way in ancapistan as in a state. >"addict will choose the high every time instead of help" not necessarily, and having a state doesnt change the problem >"The contract means nothing unless it can be negotiated" no > "since the employer can pick out the most desperate people to hire" not necessarily a bad thing, could be and how does that not already happen?
Sebastian Sanders
Would you guys say world goverments relations between each other as individuals resembles ancap?
Hunter Richardson
>If a person becomes addicted to a drug for example, how would it be voluntary if the individual is pretty much compelled to buy more of the drug?
Nobody is forced to take drugs you know. Its up to you to decide. Its not like there isn't any information out there that is not coming from the state thats warning about the use of drugs.
>why wouldn't the employer try and get away with as much bullshit as possible to undercut competition that is more generous to its employees with salary and benefits?
why would people work for such an employer?! its competition not only for price and a market but also for employees. Google did so well because they hired some of the best in the business .. some due to lucky circumstances. Same goes for Intel which started cause of the traitorous 8 or whatever the fucked they called them. People that work for your company are you company and any sane employer knows this. Stop painting a stupid commie fantasy pic that doesn't even exist in real life. How about you get a job?
>The answer is economic growth and the costs of upgrading to green tech.
we are moving in that direction althought the state slows us down
>A painting at which people would pay $100 for based on the quality of the painting as an example, but applies especially toward digital drawings which can be copied and pasted.
value is subjective. When i want to pay you $1000 for a Pepe Picture i can do so - what is anyone going to do about this?! nothing.
>This just reveals an inherent inefficiency with Capitalism as a whole
how does cheaper and better products for everyone reveal an inherent inefficiency? I dont understand.
>Externalities are not accounted for as a cost in Capitalism let alone Anarcho-Capitalism.
Most AnCaps believe that externalities violate the NAP. Haven't heard anything else from anyone.
Daniel Kelly
my question is a two parter, 1. rise of statehood 2. statehood turning militant
for 1. So a community can't form a corporation (government) that collects fees (taxes) for its services?
2. People can make security contractors but not militaries? Whats the difference? if they haven't violated the nap yet of course.
Leo Martinez
ofc it can form such a "government" if everyone agrees to it.
Why wouldn't people pay? This happens all the time. There are big neighborhoods secured by private security. Most office buildings and corporations hire their own security "forces".
You make it sound like it would be any different for whatever reason just because the (((state))) is out of the picture.
What is the interest in all of the shit you are proposing anyway? Who is going to pay for all of this and how and why?!
Bad people will always exist. In our world they run states. In the world you are fearing they "try" to run a state. So are you unironically admitting that states are awful effectively voiding all the arguments you think your have and agreeing with us?!
I don't get what you are doing here
Evan Thomas
I would argue this is not an extreme scenario because people have been forming governments and fucking each other over for thousands of years. That is a fair answer tho. But wouldn't such an en devour cost more then the fee people already pay increasing it? wouldn't it turn into a minimalistic form of government of face of threats?
Noah Rodriguez
What I'm doing is proposing a very possible hypothetical, I'm doesn't matter if I'm for or against "ancapistan". I'm just trying to see if it is a stable model. states are slightly different, they don't require a consensus, but rather a majority agreement. This is an advantage that allows it to grow much bigger then just a corporation.
Gavin Fisher
>states are slightly different, they don't require a consensus, but rather a majority agreement
nobody asked the majority if its okay to hand over monopolies to a state. Who asked you?!
When did you vote that its okay for the state to have a monopoly on money, justice and security?
"The State, completely in its genesis, essentially and almost completely during the first stages of its existence, is a social institution, forced by a victorious group of men on a defeated group, with the sole purpose of regulating the dominion of the victorious group over the vanquished, and securing itself against revolt from within and attacks from abroad. Teleologically, this dominion had no other purpose than the economic exploitation of the vanquished by the victors.
No primitive state known to history originated in any other manner. Wherever a reliable tradition reports otherwise, either it concerns the amalgamation of two fully developed primitive states into one body of more complete organisation, or else it is an adaptation to men of the fable of the sheep which made a bear their king in order to be protected against the wolf. But even in this latter case, the form and content of the State became precisely the same as in those states where nothing intervened, and which became immediately 'wolf states'"
Jason Ross
Quick question: How dense are you in grams per cubic inch? You not only avoided my question (I thought this was a post about questions for ancaps) but formed an argument against a point I never made. I never said if monopoly on anything is good or bad. I just want to know if Ancapitalism can form a stable society.
Austin Sanchez
>I just want to know if Ancapitalism can form a stable society.
this is a stupid question. Is a statist society stable?! Define stable?!!
States become unstable every year. Civil War is common around the world in statist systems.
Honestly people hear anarchy and immediately think of "The Purge" for no reason at all but statist brainwashing. It wouldn't be all that different because well ... humans wouldn't act all that differently all of a sudden. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.
Above all else this isn't even something to deeply think about now. Anarchy in general is mostly about realizing that the state is illegitimate and has to go. What comes after is not up to us to decide because the lack of a system isn't a system and never will be.
There are some "theories" about how it potentially could look like but its not in any AnCaps or Anarchists power to give answers to every possible scenario that could ever occur under such circumstances because its impossible.
Hoppe gave a talk about what he calls a "Private Law Society". Its an interesting watch. If you are interested in the topic you can watch it.
A stable system is that which can stay in its current state (not the government type of state calm you tits) an unstable system devolves into a more stable condition over time. think of a stable system like a ball in a bowel, its not going anywhere anytime soon. but an unstable system is like a red ball in another ball, red ball will roll off almost instantly. And you still haven't addressed my original question, pic related. Thanks for the video I'll watch it when I have time.
Carter Martin
somewhat, excepting the part where countries don't have a clear proprietor so they can't be sold or split in case of financial difficulties and excepting the part where the countries interactions with their own citizens is not under contract subjected to third party arbitration.
The phenomenum of economic migration that we see today would be way more fluid, and I'm not referring to rapefugees, but your ability to find new communities with different rules would suppose way less of an impact and would give room for experimentation in different models.
