*blocks your path*

*blocks your path*

IS TAXATION THEFT?

Other urls found in this thread:

schalkenbach.org/library/henry-george/hg-speeches/progress-and-poverty-condensed.html
bea.gov/papers/pdf/new-estimates-of-value-of-land-of-the-united-states-larson.pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Anarchist Capitalism is retarded.

is that the lack of an argument i am sensing?

your life is nothing more than a molymeme

Yes

Hm.... yep no argument here.

Should charity be compulsory?

Well, if you weren't such an infidel you wouldn't have to pay jizya.

No, taxation is necessary for some things. But the taxation rate should be constitutionally limited to one part in ten. Meaning no citizen shall pay more than 10% of income earned on any and all forms of taxation. And there should be no differentiation between different kinds of income.

>thinking income tax is spent on the people instead of just buying votes and repaying the debt to the fed that the boomers racked up
i dont blame you for not understanding american taxation leaf, but try harder

It is without consent, so of course.

NOT AN ARGUMENT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

AM I BEING DETAINED?!

MIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE

Ancapism brings the greatest memes.

Can someone post spurdoneux?

>IS TAXATION THEFT?

No, but property certainly is.

I'm convinced that Americans who identify as "right-libertarian" are simply clinically retarded. They can't read, they can't reason, and -- as a encore: they have no common sense.

In other words: should The State acknowledge and enforce so-called 'private property rights'? The answer, obviously, is NO.

It's the price of civilization.

Taxation is theft though.

I never agreed to any contract therefore it is theft.

>property is theft
how do you think people advance civilization? by not owning or creating anything?
also you have to prove your claim instead of just calling people retards.

Someone stole that niggas hairline.

BRRRRRRAAAAAAPPP

>how do you think people advance civilization? by not owning or creating anything?
Science and math advance civilization. Property is by no means a deciding factor.

I couldn't read this.

>No, but property certainly is.
>DUDE EVERYONE SHOULD AGREE WITH MY INSANE PROPERTY NORMS I INVENTED YESTERDAY

lmao no

kill yourself you vicious authoritarian

>They take your money and give it to other people
That's the definition of theft.

Property is required for people to do science and math on any productive level.

yes, but this guy looks confused as to if he should be angry.

*teleports behind*
BRAAAAAAP

Did you jutt assume assume my Detainition?

Yes.

Now get out of my personal space or I will be force to retaliate as the N.A.P. dictates

Do you need a country for safety?

While I'm all for insurrection of unjustifiable (all of them) governments, but you need countries preferably ethnically divided ones

right and scientists are just going to live in the jungle with no home and no stored food or resource to sustain and elevate their safety and advance their productivity. and you call yourself american, fuck off to korea

No, living in a country implies consent to its taxation

Put your money where your mouth is. Leave your front door wide open with a note that says "property is theft"

This

Sales tax is not,
it's rent

yes

...

I shoot him

Whose this Mike guy? I keep seeing "Mike" posted on threads. Can I get a quick rundown?

You pay a rent to live in the society our ancestors built for us. Taxation is not a theft, it's a rent. You can argue about the size of it, but the existence of it is almost certainly necessary.

The only kind of tax that is not theft is the Land Value Tax.

LVT would raise enough money to fund the government and provide a citizens dividend

If your not a Georgist youre morally bankrupt, clinically stupid or just lying to yourself.

Socialism is 2nd grade meme- tier bullshit

*nothing peronel Kid*

Theft? Not really. You agree to pay taxes for living in a society.

Are taxes too high? Yes. Is tax money being wasted at an incredible rate? Yes. Should the government lower taxes significantly? Yes.

except you are forced to pay that "rent" or else you are arested and if you resist the arest you get killed. If I point a gun at your head and take your money from you without your consent, that is theft. Taxation is theft.

Here is a bit of Progress and Poverty by Henry George for anyone looking for a natural solution to how a government should raise funds


The equal right of all men to the use of land is as clear as their equal right to breathe the air—it is a right proclaimed by the fact of their existence. For we cannot suppose that some men have a right to be in this world and others no right. . . . . . any one human being, could he concentrate in himself the individual rights to the land of any country, could expel therefrom all the rest of its inhabitants; and could he thus concentrate the individual rights to the whole surface of the globe, he alone of all the teeming population of the earth would have the right to live. And what upon this supposition would occur is, upon a smaller scale, realized in actual fact. . . . The comparative handful of pro- prietors who own the surface of the British Islands would be doing only what English law gives them full power to do, and what many of them have done on a smaller scale already, were they to exclude the millions of British people from their native islands. And such an exclusion . . . would not be a whit more repugnant to natural right than the spectacle now presented, of the vast body of the British people being compelled to pay such enormous sums to a few of their number for the privilege of being permitted to live upon and use the land which they so fondly call their own; which is endeared to them by memories so tender and so glorious, and for which they are held in duty bound, if need be, to spill their blood and lay down their lives. . . .

Place one hundred men on an island from which there is no escape, and whether you make one of these men the absolute owner of the other ninety-nine, or the absolute owner of the soil of the island, will make no difference either to him or to them. It was not nobility that gave land, but the possession of land that gave nobility. . . .

You can always leave. Just don't enter anyone else's property. There's probably some unclaimed island in the Pacific, and Antarctica is relatively free.

The tax on land values . . . may be assessed and collected with a definiteness that partakes of the immovable and unconcealable character of the land itself. . . . Were all taxes placed upon land values, irrespective of improvements, the scheme of taxation would be so simple and clear, and public attention would be so directed to it, that the valuation of taxation could and would be made with the same certainty that a real estate agent can determine the price a seller can get for a lot. . . .

The tax upon land values . . . falls only upon those who receive from society a peculiar and valuable benefit, and upon them in proportion to the benefit they receive. It is the taking by the community, for the use of the community, of that value which is the creation of the community. . . . When all rent is taken by taxation for the needs of the community . . . no citizen will have an advantage over any other citizen save as is given by his industry, skill, and intelligence; and each will obtain what he fairly earns. Then, but not till then, will labor get its full reward, and capital its natural return. . . .

Maybe some of you faggots will take the time to actually read this
schalkenbach.org/library/henry-george/hg-speeches/progress-and-poverty-condensed.html

Basically his right hand man, does research for him, helps manage the website, screens the emails for callers that are worth taking

Some of the "truth about" shows are entirely based off his research, and he's on the show occasionally

Also he's the guy in the call-in shows that introduces the callers

That said the "MIKE GET HIM OFF MY SHOW" quote is made up, still funny though

what if you dont agree though? You do not have the option to not pay taxes, the government will arrest you, and possibly kill you if you resist the arrest that is theft

If you don't want to pay taxes to a nation, don't live in the property of that nation. Fucking bum.

No
By existing within a country thereby receiving its benefits you have decided to sign a contract of give and take with a government. As long as citizens are aloud to travel out of a government this is not theft. Basically, Rousseau's social contract. I would expect liberty fags to know this more than anyone, but all of them are inbred retards

Science happens in space, public property, private property, and international territories just fine. As long as it's funded and respected, it will happen. It doesn't matter.

Not an argument.

kek, the government should get out of my property, not the opposite. that is the same as saying that if a thief robs your house everyday it is legitimate because you did not move from your house. what you should do instead is to deal with the thief.

Reply to this post or you are violating the NAP and I will nuke your mother in her sleep tonight

The government was there before you. You're trespassing on its property. Bum.

No it's part of the social contract that your parents took out on you because the libertarian paradise had your parents claim property rights on you.

You also don't have an option to not have roads, not have public schooling, and not have a military.

These things are necessary for a society to function and everyone who benefits from them (inb4 I DON'T OWN CAR while ignoring you buy goods transported on roads) needs to pay.

However, if you don't want to pay, move, or go live off the grid. They can't charge you taxes if you live innawoods and hunt deer.

...

Your property only extends to the things you produce. I will agree with you that taxing consumptive, recreational and productive activities is theft. However, you can not produce land in any meaningful sense. The value of that land is determined by the community around it therefor you are receiving an unnatural benefit by excluding its use from others so we should take that rent and give it back to the community.

Its not true, not all of them.

The LP has been taken over by right wing retards though. Some Geolibertarians still exist.

yes

Government servoces can be done by private industries. me having the option to move does not justify taxation, i should be able to live a normal life without been forced to give my money to the government against my will

Why is my property only what I produce? This is so stupid, that means if I buy a car it is not my property, therefore it is motal to take it from me. Why would we buy things then? Does that mean that your body is not your property since you did not produce it? Im sorry this concept is just stupid to me

Moral*

You're lying to yourself

>They can't charge you taxes if you live innawoods and hunt deer.

But they will imprison you for the next 30 years if they catch you, seen by helicopter or anything else.

Thanks. I was getting paranoid - my name may or may not be Mike

Maybe this does a better job explaining than i do

What you are taught as "capitalism" results in inequality and inefficiency because it lacks a theory to manage common resources. It doesn't even recognize that there is such a thing as common resources. Georgism corrects this flaw by not only recognizing common resources like land, minerals, water, fish stocks as such, but adds that by managing these resources with user fees, you can get rid of all other taxation and remove impediments to economic development. So under Georgism, regular folk are mostly taxed in proportion to the value of any land they may possess. The vast majority of people would pay a lot less than they currently pay in income, payroll and consumption taxes, but absentee landlords would pay a lot more, and the mortgage business of banks would be an order of magnitude smaller, because land taxes cancel the benefits of homeownership as an investment. The system also discourages the inefficient use of land, controlling sprawl and inefficient farming practices. Housing and transportation costs would be greatly reduced, thus allowing for a greater equality of opportunity. A Universal basic income (UBI) could provide for those unable to work.

also read this

Even if I was born under a government, that does not mean that my property belongs to the government, nor does it mean that I am "tresspassing" governmental property by beeing born. I still own private property even living under a government, me beeing born here does not make taxation moral, i still do not consent with it, therefore it is theft

i didnt even know who the fuck the guy was until now

his theory seems decent enough. ill have to look into it

Eurocuck mentality perfectly phrased.

In the US people are citizens. In Euro you are 'subjects'

>The social contract proves th-
CUT HIM OFF

What about defense? Other non-excludable goods? I do agree taxation is too damm high, and I am all for reducing taxes and restricting the size and scope of the government but isn't there at least an argument to keep some things within the public sphere? Also, the state itself can enhance the efficiency of the market through preventing monopolies (increasing competition), issuing patent rights (encouraging innovation), and protecting property rights.

IMO (at least in the US) local and state govts are, and should be, more involved with things like roads/schools, which have already been mentioned. Keep the federal out of most things. Also get rid of corporate taxes. This is fairer because it does allow more of a 'choice,' or rather you can more easily move to another states if you feel the tax/outcome is unjustifiable where you are.

Form of taxation also matters. Apart from income, land tax and sales tax have solid arguments for utility (and equity) as well.

It sounds like socialism before you actually get more in depth with it but its actually one of the best defenses of capitalism; by no means is this socialism.

George was a contemporary of Marx and they did not like each other. Marx called Georgism capitalism last ditch and George called Marx the prince of the muddle heads.

Georgism unlike communism has been successfully implemented around the world and even in some places in the US. Keep reading!

>Who will pay for the roa-
MIKE CUT HIM OFF

Not an argument.

>MUH SPOOKS
stirnerites deserve to be cannibalized

No, because you can leave the country if you want.

LVT is what your looking for

form reading another one of your posts im getting that landowners are taxed based on the value of the land and people who use the land are taxed on what they get from it

is that right? it also said something about UBI

would that method generate enough income for UBI? there are tons of people who dont work right now and most countries are already running deficits

Only when you're not in control of government.

But you can't leave the country without specific permits and allowances in any first world country, and you can't walk onto unowned land and live there either.

Estimates suggest
that this 1.89 billion acres of land are collectively worth approximately $23 trillion in
2009 (current prices), with 24% of the land area and $1.8 trillion of the value held by
the federal government.

plenty of money also remember it will replace all other taxes, capital gains, income ect

bea.gov/papers/pdf/new-estimates-of-value-of-land-of-the-united-states-larson.pdf

Not without certain permits and licenses that cost time and money for you to get.

> isn't there at least an argument to keep some things within the public sphere?

That was it's currently called Minarchism, kind of irrelevant after 100 years of advancing classical liberal thought into anarcho-capitalism.

> enhance the efficiency of the market through preventing monopolies

How can the biggest monopoly ever created, reduce monopolies in a system that is essentially 100% open ended, only ever restricted by the very monopoly you want to help prevent monopolies with, which is the only actual way monopolies can exist? (by the state creating restrictions that breed monopoly, it's a state created problem mate)

> issuing patent rights

Shenzhen & the internet would like a word

> protecting property rights.

Yeah common force for defending people & property is the basis for legitimizing the state, ancaps would argue defending people can be done differently.

> local and state govts are, and should be, more involved with things

You'd strike a cord with Libertarians here, they're all about decentralizing, giving responsibility and control back to the people that need changes and who the changes will effect. No point having some political elite in Washington determining how people on the other side of the land should live as if they know what's best for people more than they themselves and to a greater degree local over federal governments.

I understand what you mean now. First of all, yes captalism results in inequality, but not inefficency, what results in inefficiency is the state and corporativism. I disagree with the concept that you have the right to land simply because you exist, in my opinion you have to earn it, and i also belive the only right we have by existing is the right to property. As for UBI it will make people lazy and not want to work unless it was only for the genuanly disadvanteged and considering the inefficiency of the state this would not happen, charity does a much better job at helping the disadvantaged.

Yes.
AND SO IS CAPITALIST PROPERTY

>By existing within a country thereby receiving its benefits you have decided to sign a contract of give and take with a government.
That doesn't logically follow, that's a load of abstract bullshit pulled out of liberalism's ass.

If you're a true AnCap you can go into some shithole because it saves you the work of ruining society and also no government will interfere with you.

No, it costs money and time to leave a country, just about any country, I wasn't even including trying to get into a country.

this guy is such a low test cuck.
anyone who gets as uppity and visibly butthurt as him must have pretty useless testes.
if i ever saw him, i would just pretend to be the most blue-pilled cuck i could be to hopefully inch him closer to a heart attack

Sure, some. If you leave the country without consulting any officials and go to someplace where nobody is going to track you down, you're set.

If it's involuntary, yes.
> charity
> compulsory

>I disagree with the concept that you have the right to land simply because you exist

So why shouldn't we have to earn the air we breath? You saying i have to earn land is kind of saying i don't actually have a natural right to exist

Thanks for the interesting reading, my 'Georgist' friend. You're a rarity on Sup Forums - keep fighting the good fight!

by no means am i or George suggesting that you cannot have mutual use of a parcel of land

What we say is you should pay the community rent for that unnatural exclusion

I cant fathom how "finders keepers losers weepers" is a legitimate way to base everything on. To me it seems like a 3 year old has set up the current world order