F35 Debate thread

Was the F35 a worthy investment?

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kek says yes.

Seems like a pretty badass plane desu. Might not be quite as agile as an F22 but the rest of its tech is years ahead of anything else out there. Well, other than the antigravity black budget craft that don't officially exist.

Israel used them to infiltrate Syria and they destroyed S300 systems and they never detected them. So you tell me

digits aside

No, the plane has been a tremendous waste of money, it still gets outperformed in most missions by older planes such as F15, F16, and F18.

Fuck yes.
Can you name any other cool fucking airplane made recently? fucking no

No, it's a waste of money. They've spent over a trillion dollars on a shitty jet. Are the jets we have now not good enough for killing brown people?

We could of used that money for universal healthcare, or fixing our infrastructure. But no, let's spend it on a shiny new jet to kill more brown kids.

Waste of money

But we are already so deep into the investment there is no use complaining now. Might as well enjoy them because the money is already spent.

No, not worth 5+ trillion

Amazing the first brown president was the most bloodiest war monger in US history with invading and or bombing 8 countries hundreds of thousands of times.

looks uber alles

its not like the plane was designed to fight or anything.......

f18 and f22 all day.

though this has the vertical take off which from a strat standpoint i could be into.

ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and Taliban air defenses are not to be underestimated

we could have built an orbital ring and become a spacefairing species for less money than that shitty ass melting jet costed

There are several versions of the F-35. Not all have vertical takeoff. That's part of the reason it was so expensive. The non-vertical takeoff versions have to share parts with the vertical takeoff version. So any time one of them undergoes a design change they need to make sure everything remains compatible. It's a cluster fuck.

It would have been easier and cheaper to just build two different stealth fighters, one with vertical takeoff.

Yea I'm not defending him. He was a fucking war monger that tricked people into thinking he was any better then bush. The piece of shit actually EXPANDED the amount of countries we bombed.

Why the fuck are we over there in the first place? Who the fuck cares what those ragheads do? Let them kill themselves and let's use some of that war money on the US instead.

Is it at least supermaneuverable?

Absolutely yes. It'll be decades before any other military even comes close to the full capabilities of the F35. Even if they copy it and make their own version that is perfect, it will be a hobbled toy at best.

What the F35 does is integrate the entire breadth of the US military into the cockpit of a flying death machine. Pilots in an F35 are able to see through the battlefield, get real-time updates on every aspect of the operation, and deliver a decisive strike whenever and wherever needed.

All of the shit talk is mostly interference to keep details vague. USA makes a superweapon and gets its politicians/media to shit talk it and otherwise trash the thing so everyone thinks it sucks, exactly what the military wants. They want their foes to underestimate them.

Meanwhile you've got nations like China and Russia popping off every chance they get to brag about their new toys.

Protip: if you've got the best gun, you don't brag about it. You simply use it when you need to.

Do you fucking idiots really fucking think this wasn't 100% intentional. Like all you fucks already said we have been building thousands of bad ass planes for decades with a fraction of resources or technology. You really fucking think they accidentally ignored every thing we have ever done and just blindly built the F-35? Fucking idiots every single thing you know about the plane is 100% from the government

thats because its all funded and given by the Americans
Their air defense is your weapons kek

The Jews got us all to waste our money on this shitty plane while they stab us in the back. By the time Americans are ready to kill the Jews we'll be left with nothing but trash weapons and the huge mountain of debt we used to buy them. This is what happens when kikes are in charge of your military.

In some sense dickwaving prevents escalating conflict.

Their air defense is your weapons kek

Most definitely. It's not a one or the other proposition. A corps of good diplomats is as useful as any military.

But when push comes to shove, you must be able to finish the fight.

>Their air defense is your weapons
Russian SA-16

20,7 kills for every death in Redflag
so no

i mean yes

anybody with any knowledge of modern air combat systems know that the F35 is a huge step forward in our air force. it's not for bombing tuscan raiders. it's for the enevitable war with China.

douchebags

>tfw you realize the F35 is just a front for a highly advanced transdimensional stealth bomber

Yes, it's a fantastic plane because it accomplished everything that was set out for it to do. It made Lockheed a lot of money, secured lucrative lobbying positions and kickbacks for politicians, and it's a massive nationwide jobs program.

You didn't think this was actually about fighting wars, did you? Get with the times.

About as manoeuvrable as a burger on a wallmart scooter trying to do a 90 degree turn

I don't know. However we and the Israelis (F-35 buyers BTW) have been clowning on the best air defenses the Russians can deploy. Not saying it's the F-35 doing it, but it seems like we know what we're doing when it comes to blowing heavily defended shit up. Supposedly Israel used them a few months ago in Syria, but who knows.

Sad if true. Burgers spent millions on the German-American project I posted, but then the UDSSR collapsed and everyone lost interest.
Now the Russians and Chinese are building something similar.

this, they are not going to be releasing it's full capabilities

See this You fucking tard.

This. It is radar invisible because all EM emissions are shifted to subspace. The only way to identify would entail looking for gravitation effects.

I unironically think this might be true

You're unironically retarded.

No, the marines fucked it all up.

You don't need to think, geordi, it happens as a byproduct of something else they are intending.

Explain.

b2 is the electrostatic platform, not f35

Source, nigger.

>What is electrostatic (EM) force generating pseudo-lift
>What is electrostatic
>What is a signature

You are unironically retarded.

Stop licking those LockMart boots long
enough to get up off your knees, and read
the reports from GAO, RAND, and the
Congressional committees critical of this
boondoggle.

I used to think the F35 was a huge failure, but the more you learn the more you figure out why it's actually a pretty good plane.
The biggest concerns have been with its lack of maneuverability, but it's not made to be a dogfighter. The "tests" that show it outperformed by current gen Chinese jets are basically these: dogfights. In real air-to-air combat, the F35 is designed to take down enemy aircraft from long range. Its stealth capabilities mean the enemy won't even see the plane on radar.
The F35 also has extensive electronic warfare capabilities. It can literally take control some of the missiles used by our adversaries and turn them against the enemy. That's just one open source example.

Tl;dr F35 is good at what it's designed to do: stealth, long range kills, and electronic warfare

F35 was a mistake
F22 is good
F23 is best planefu

No.

>Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

-General and President "Ike" Eisenhower, one of the greatest presidents we ever have had.

How did something meant to supplement the F22
as an attack aircraft magically turn into this jack of all shit?
Dont get me wrong, I think the R&D would have had to been done sooner or later, and I think the helmet is neat, but I think the plane is being overhyped af.

Air traffic controller here

Primary (conventional) radar is super unreliable. It can miss targets based on their movement around the antenna, either head on or tangentially in addition to having a blind spot directly overhead. Accuracy falls off dramatically with range and even with secondary radar (secondary radar is what enables radar operations to legitimately function) precise location gets sketchy more than 30 NM from the radar site.

What I'm saying is that it's not hard to fool radar, it's not nearly as accurate as people think it is. If a jet even needed to get within radar range, its location would be highly inaccurate at best. Primary radar can only report lateral positions so even if you had an idea of where the jet would be, you'd still have to scan tens of thousands of feet to spot it, and anyone who's flown can tell you it's not easy to spot aircraft even when you have a controller in your ear telling you exactly where it is in relation to you.

I'm conflicted. On the one hand, I believe we need to be able to defend our land with the best that technology has to offer. On the other hand, I don't want to pay taxes for a hyper-bloated defense industry. How can we reconcile these two ideas?

no, remove it right now.

>How did something meant to supplement the F22 as an attack aircraft magically turn into this jack of all shit?

the plane is very late, over budget and has years of development still before it's operational ("drop bombs on the enemy" operational, not the bullshit IOC or whatever they're calling it now)
at this point it has to be sold as some kind of top secret superweapon because if it were just a stealthy attack aircraft then it would get axed and people would immediately begin looking at alternatives
the real reason why it's still going is because if it were canceled many careers would be ended and jobs lost in congressional districts
there's some conference where they got a bunch of F-35 test pilots calling it the iphone of jets to sell it to normies

Solution: The government just prints all the money it needs anyway, economies are just an illusion

Yes.

>I don't know how the economy works, therefore it is fake

Well, he's not technically wrong. The economy is just a human invention.

Isn't money just a proxy for energy? I mean if you take a look at the modern economy it's a giant shitshow that's just begging for itself to collapse. It doesn't take a genius to realize it's smoke an mirrors.

A cell phone is a human invention, that doesn't make it "an illusion"

>antigravity black budget craft
So the F35 is essentially just military superiority propaganda then?

Thanks tips, I know. We're not talking conventional radar here nigger.

Physicists negate engineers, who negate ATCs and the likes that use them.

yea exactly the vert take-off means a shitload of them can be off a carrier and firing missiles in minutes

Sorry for the vague answer but in this case it's true. We're talking procured sensor technology, not your OTH or ATC bird microwaves here.

Question: Was I actually onto something? It was a shitpost and a half on my part

Of course it was a worthy investment..why would the Jews tell us otherwise?

>Isn't money just a proxy for energy?
No.

The economy is just a measurement of the total number of trades. The more trades that happen, the better off the traders are. Money is a physical manifestation of an individual's value on a good or service. Value is based on scarcity, so printing money inflates the average cost. You can't just keep printing money and expecting people to value it the same. Look at Venezuela, people are burning paper currency for warmth. The same thing happened in Germany in the early 20th century.

You clearly don't understand how any of this works.

When a physicist or engineer enters this conversation let me know

yes because it have us this Kino:

youtube.com/watch?v=JiLy7wZeqa4

Except for red flag where the f35 was unstoppable

...

As some have said, it's not purely about dogfighting anymore. The era has shifted to more BVR fights with long range missiles, and the 35 has superior radar, stealth, and systems integration. Go look at the EOTS system of the f35 on youtube, it's fucking insane. It can look into a hotel room from ~50 nautical miles. The EO DAS system is amazing as well for communication between a flight or the commander. You can look THROUGH the airplane in nightvision. Hell you can shoot a missile at anything you see too, because you can shoot your missiles backwards (caveat: this burns a lot of fuel and it will have a much shorter range/speed).

The integration of all the systems is god tier. Knowledge of the battlefield is incredibly useful. The system does almost everything for you. It's really quite amazing.

Having to deal with VTOL was shitty, but the military really trying to standardize all equipment - it hugely simplifies logistics. So if your in combat and something breaks, you can use parts from the A on the B or C model and not be hosed like if you had 7.62 ammo but only 5.56 chambered guns. Also massive pricetag is the program cost to 2050, so each unit ends up something like 120mil, which isn't that bad. Plus it'll get cheaper over time as more blocks come out.

Overall the rafale and eurofighter programs were about as bad if not a bit worse and those aren't even stealth fighters. It's still an expensive program, and I'm sure execs at lockheed were pretty happy with it, but like all public knowledge programs, they use tech in black programs. We didn't know about the blackbird, nighthawk, or b-2 for awhile. And the tech from the glory that was the Comanche helicopter was used in the stealth blackhawks that were used against bin laden. We salvage anything good and put it in the super sekrit documents.

I know. That is the shitpost of the year for you son.

Okay I just let you know sweetie. Also letting you know you are an ATC monkey bleep bloop.

Let me know when a second person that understands quantum mechanics pertaining to electromagnetism and optics enters this conversation.

Holy shit. If you're listening IC, let me weaponize my autism for you.