When capitalism falls

What will happen?
Its a given that robots will eventually replace all humans in jobs. But the consequence will be that no one will be able to succeed or be an individual.
If everyone is given a basic income, then I think a lot of important cool things in society would go away.
Basic income doesn't allow someone who loves fashion to have tons of unique outfits, or someone who plays video games to have a good up to date computer.
How would this problem be fixed? Do you give people more than they need to live?

------------------------

Very rough estimate of the current cost to live per individual:
$350 food
$800 housing
$250 utilities/internet/phoneplan/etc
$400 misc

Comes out to $1800 per month, $21,600 per year. For several reasons I'll actually add $3,400 on top of this giving us a total of $25,000 per average adult. This is my estimate for how much you need to live a very basic life. Now lets say we wanted people to have more than this so that they can live more interesting lives, we give them $1000 per year (equivalent to a great computer, or tons of shopping for clothes, or all the art supplies you could ever need, or a high quality instrument, etc) and that gives the final result of $26,000 per year per individual.
Say we wanted to supply 200,000,000 individuals with this amount, comes out to 5.2 trillion dollars.
Thoughts?

>Its a given that robots will eventually replace all humans in jobs.
No.
There will be jobs left. But they will require specific skills and high intelligence. So our first step is to provide high-class education for everyone.

>Cowweg meme again

What?

>Its a given that robots will eventually replace all humans in jobs.
Even accounting for the fact that you are exaggerating, you're still wrong

Back to pol

We encapsulate ourselves in the matrix.
Winners will be those that excel at maths.
We will keep the entertainers in a separate Matrix where they can be animus and shieet.

You must live in the boondocks to think even 800$ for housing only is even a rough estimate. Maybe if everyone moved to the rural areas sure.

You can easily find $600 housing if you're not a spoiled retard who lives in San Fran. Work your way up, faggot.

If people don't have to work, they're gonna wanna pick up more hobbies, along with probably smoking/drinking/drugs. That misc cost would probably have to quadruple to make people enjoy a life with so much downtime

Explain this meme

Start taxing robots and providing welfare for everyone. There really isn't an alternative.

>What will happen?
We will all starve in the gulag, because that seems to be the only alternative.

Communism is the worst thing that has ever happened to humankind, read Solzhenitsyn.

Ever heard about The Venus Project? The only thing we need to finish it is to educate other people. There are many variables (human nature/nurture, profitprofitprofit, poverty, widespread inequality, obsolete economic system, etc) so I reccomend you read books The Zeitgeist Movement Defined by TZM, Robots will steal your job but thats ok by federico pistono, designing the future and the best that money can't buy by jacque fresco. These books have answers you are looking for.

Oh, and regarding communism:
I hail from post commie country (Czechia) and I can tell you that "free marketers" do not understand the diff between historic comm and marx/engels comm. First failure is that marx expected therevolt to happen in wealthiest country (uk at that time), not thr shittiest country (in other words russia at that time). And then everything fell apart, since they wanted to follow ideas designed for rich countriez. Reading guys like solženicin wont help you understand the ideas, since soviet union wasnt commie. Im really getting sick of this appearantely "historic" dualism because freemarketers are so indocrinated. And im not for commie not because "it doesnt work" but because marx's ideas sometimes dont make sense (absolute equality when you have sort of ruling class and working class, and more importantly because automation is/soon will be able to do everything faster/better/more efficiently than we are) and they are old (same as free market, but fm was good 150yrs ago) because nowadays it says that planets are here just to be wastefuly exploited by humans thinking in short term and not giving a flying shit about future.

When you don't have any argument left you say it.

Education won't change IQ, though. What will you do about the Low IQ population that cannot into highly technical jobs?

The question is how many people actually have such low IQs.
Majority low-skilled workers in the world are not because of low IQ, but because of lack of high-quality, free education.

Once we are technologically advanced enough we'll be able to create simulations of different worlds. People with IQs < 120 would then go and live in these simulations

That guy's a relegious antisemite I'm not going to let him spoil my communist utopia

Taking into account the average IQ is around 95 in first world nations where education is easily accessible, and the fact such IQ is hardly any good to get into STEM fields, I doubt this utopic idea of yours is going to work. You can't make quantum physicists out of the average peep with first world class education, it just doesn't work that way.


Even if I am wrong, my original question still remains. What will you do with the low IQ population? Are you going to get them on welfare? Kill them? Hope technological advancements in cybernetics allow us to find a way to increase IQ?

Remember user that one of the best things about automation is that it lowers costs. So those projected costs of yours could be significantly reduced.

>first world nations where education is easily accessible
I hope you don't mean USA.
Because USA doesn't have high-quality nor free education.

Some countries in the EU do, and the situation is no different there. You're not really answering the important questions. Free high quality education is not going to solve this issue.

>Its a given that robots will eventually replace all humans in jobs

Give me one single time in all of history that automation or innovation has led to long term unemployment

>b-b-but AI is different!

It's literally not

For those who thik there will always be jobs for people, check the documentary "Will work for free" on YouTube. That guy sums it up nicely.

Education does change IQ you fucking retard.
IQ is not innate.

However, not even high skilled jobs will survive on a longer term.

Automation has destroyed most jobs in agriculture.
In other sectors, automation was compensated by the increase of demand due to decreasing prices and the fucking baby boom.

Today's automation does not decrease prices, and the demand will not increase in developed countries.

>Its a given that robots will eventually replace all humans in jobs.
Wouldn't that mean there will be no scarcity? You lose reason to have economy based on money.

As much as 7 to 8 points in the IQ scale. That would not solve the problems of getting a average/Low IQ population into a highly technical job.

Neither you nor the other user care to respond, though.

Yeah 90+% of sub 100 IQ jobs will go away. Probably even a big part of sub 120 IQ jobs.

Getting a 10 increase is insignificant. Call me once you increase by standard divation.

An IQ of 100 is the mean IQ of the UK. In the modern world it's about 50% sub 100.
Even more in the developing world.

I didn't respond to that because there is no point. High skilled jobs will disappear too.

Yeah, in your dreams. Commie.

>Its a given that robots will eventually replace all humans in jobs.
Why do people think this is a good thing? All this is going to do is fuel useless life styles, thus hurting the economy, unless genocide is to occur and eugenics becomes practiced

The +10 increase applies with the current state of education where poor people get poor education. Poor/low IQ people should get more education to bridge the gap with the rest.
Of course you won't notice the increase in numbers because IQ is relative (the mean IQ is always equal to 100 by definition).

It's the reason we built civilization in the first place. Everything about it is intended to alleviate the pain of earthly toil. How do people not understand that?

Everything about it is intended to alleviate the pain of earthly toil.
There must be a point at which this becomes impossible, given the size of our planet. Perhaps such a society could work given a vast amount of resources essential to our survival (i.e. food, water, etc.) and more space, which can be acquired by colonizing other planets. However, if robots replace all humans on Earth, there could be a net loss in resources due to over-consumption because of a massive portion of the population being dependent on welfare. Coercion in some way could be used to solve this, but I don't find that morally acceptable at all desu. I could be wrong though

I should also mention that this could have terrible effects on the environment

why do people even think robots will replace everyone in jobs

is it because it's easy to imagine?


Have any of you fucktards ever actually been somewhere "robots" could take over? The "robots"(machines) they already have are run till they break, then they are fixed as fast as possible and generally neglected because there's always something else that needs to be fixed/maintained.

At some point the cost of labor to fix your machines and robots and other various plant problems PLUS the original cost of the robots running the machines and the robot parts you need to fix them is going to vastly surpass paying some immigrants or drug addicts to the job themselves.

The idea is beyond retarded because we, at least here in america are WAY past this point. We have robots doing the robot work and humans doing everything else. Watch how its made or get a job fag

>no-one ever has to work again
>capitalism failed

>/biz/
>Sup Forums

>$350 food
MONTHLY?
Stop buying fucking T.V. dinners, doritos and mountain dew.
Rice and oats for carbs. Eggs and Chicken for protein. Veggies for snacking.
My food bill is $100 a month and I could easily cut it to $60 if I was forced to.
Eating unhealthy is expensive. Eating right is cheap is dirt.

>$800 housing
Sure in a major city. You can rent a 4 bedroom 2 bath with garage for around ~$400.

>$250 utilities/internet/phoneplan/etc
Stop watching T.V., go without a smartphone ($20 a month at the most for normal phones).

>$400 misc
What misc? I pay $200 for health/car insurance and that's it.

I live off $700 a month with 0 government aid and I consider my lifestyle pretty luxurious.

>You can rent a 4 bedroom 2 bath with garage for around ~$400 in the country.
Woops.

>MONTHLY?
>Stop buying fucking T.V. dinners, doritos and mountain dew.
>Rice and oats for carbs. Eggs and Chicken for protein. Veggies for snacking.
>My food bill is $100 a month and I could easily cut it to $60 if I was forced to.
>Eating unhealthy is expensive. Eating right is cheap is dirt.

user I'm sorry but you must be retarded. 350 dollars is if you want to get good fresh foods from places like Trader Joes or Whole Foods. You know, where the food won't fucking kill you.
It also allows you to go out with your GF and get something from a restaurant for once.

Maybe you enjoy eating secondhand shit and portions the size of your phone, but I certainly don't.

There is a pretty effective population control mechanism in place right now. It might not be enough to stave off climate change, but the problem will not be getting worse.

>Whole Foods
Cans of organic navy beans from whole foods are $1 each and provide enough beans for 2 meals.
I could live off beans alone if I had to.

Also
>the word Fresh = healthy
>Trader Joes
>Expensive
>not all the shit no one wanted to buy relabeled with the trader joes brand

Op is talking about the living cost per individual
>It also allows you to go out with your GF and get something from a restaurant for once.
You really have no argument.

>Its a given that robots will eventually replace all humans in jobs.

It really isn't.

We remove the rest of the body and live as brain's in a jar. plugged into VR forever.

A good deal of the damage (aging) that occurs in the brain over the decades is the result of metabolism. Not having the rest of the body to digest products and locamotion, living only as being of thought. Having nutrients directly pumped into our brains solves a litany of issues.

You will take up say a cubed foot of space and use 1/5 of the energy and nutrients you do now. All the while being able to experience anything you could possibly imagine and then some. The cots of running your simulation will be nominal. You will be able to live like this longer than a typical human body will last surely.
If not forever.

>technological progress alienating people, causing mental and physical illness, destroying our planet, causing dysgenics etc. ...
>the only thing you worry about is "they take our jawbs!"

Read his book for fuck's sake

>Cans of organic navy beans from whole foods are $1 each and provide enough beans for 2 meals.
yep half a can of beans, a perfectly filling meal

>a perfectly filling meal
Did I say it was?
Or are we talking about the minimum requirements to stay alive?

Iv eaten half a can of beans for lunch sometimes on painting jobs when I don't have time to cook a proper lunch. When you are hungry you will eat anything and beans are tasty and filling. You forget how good normal unflavored food tastes.

>Its a given that robots will eventually replace all humans in jobs. But the consequence will be that no one will be able to succeed or be an individual.

Well assuming that we will establish some sort of welfare state with the robots being owned by the state, instead of the option where we are killing off the unnecessary people. I guess people would need to be outstanding in some way to be successful. Either smarter than most people, more charismatic or more creative. I think the mass unemployment would cause a great state of complacent consumerism and degeneracy of culture in the main population, like we are already seeing to some degree today.

This attitude is going to seem so quaint in a few years. It's happening all around you. You're just blind to it for some reason.

What fucking world do you live in? My monthly spendings are
>500€ for rent (including utilities)
>37€ for phone and internet
>100-150€ for food
and I live anything but a very basic life.

In addition to that I do have lots of different clothes as well as a pretty new PC, and I STILL get to travel the world once to twice per year for up to two months at a time.

All the while Im working no more than 12 hours a week on average just above minimum wage work while studying physics.

The solution to your problem is just education, which you apparently dont have, if this is how inefficient you are with your money.
Teach people how to minmax resources.

1) civilisation needs people. Otherwise there's no civilisation.
2) Civilisation needs and requires people together work, contribute and be reimbursed for their labour in order to keep things running.
3) If there is no work for people, people will have nothing to do and they will not be reimbursed.
4) When people have no income, they cannot contribute to the economy.
5) If robots and / or AI do replace vast majority of the work, the population will decline.
6) Civilisation would not function with the culling of people and lack of work.

You already posted this on /sci/.

Off yourself.

Mod moved it here

Thread was moved back here.

Europe will likely never reach this stage, I suspect a low level civil war before that, resulting in sharia and a ban/heavy taxation for machines/robots with enforced hiring requirements for the islamic animals and negros. Social welfare will be even more extended on the backs of a crumbling white middle class that will continue to retreat from the public, with those that can afford it moving to the last white bastions in their respective countryside or to Asia.
Something similar will eventually happen in all other "white" countries.

Long term, we will see a few technological highly advanced, post-industrialized, modern, authoritarian countries with massive armies both for internal and external use, mostly in Asia, with the rest of the world a global Syria/Iraq as those are today.