Tell me about the gold standard, Sup Forums

Is it superior to fiat? Is it even possible in the modern economy? How would we even switch back to it? What are its advantages/disadvantages?

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It's certainly possible, but we'll have to wait on the successor states to the West (or better yet, private groups) to implement it. It's too late for these governments.

It's a dumb way of structuring a currency. The present system is vastly superior. Sup Forumsaks who actively encourage the gold standard don't know what they're talking about.

>The present system is vastly superior.

It certainly is, right up to the collapse.

There will be no collapse.

You're gonna have to actually say something to convince me.

>Is it superior to fiat?

Yes.

> Is it even possible in the modern economy?

Yes, albeit as a backing for electronic currency. You probably want to pile in silver.

>How would we even switch back to it?

Buy gold.

>What are its advantages/disadvantages?

It put a brake on the greatest evil invented by man: inflation. Dunno any disadvantages.

Gold supply fluctuates which creates artificial distortions in the value of currency. The economy can only expand so long as your ability to obtain gold expands but there is only so much gold. Steady annual inflation is vastly superior to unsteady deflation/inflation that varies widely from year to year.

Gold standard won't work/didn't work because governments still spent more than what they had even on the standard. Fiat is shit too, but gold standard doesn't seem much better nowadays.

Growth for growth, cancer, etc

> Steady annual inflation is vastly superior to unsteady deflation/inflation that varies widely from year to year.

First, when has inflation it deflation every "varied wildly" when backed by metal? Second, why is inflation superior?

Oil embargo in 1973 made things go a bit crazy and it took a while for things to settle down but since then it has been much more stable.

The link between gold and the US dollar was completely severed in 1971

Paper currency was simply a certificate to redeem your gold or silver coin.

You used to be able to walk into any federal reserve bank and redeem your certificates.

Tbf that isn't a good example because the US dollar wasn't backed at all by metal in 73, use an exmple pre-71.

Gold bugs fuck off to /x/

Not entirely true. A lot of governments prevented this for obvious reasons, although I guess in theory you could do this. Even before we got rid of the gold standard you couldn't do it anymore.

what do you mean? It tracks inflation since 1900

Reminder Putin is stockpiling gold and Trudeau is siphoning off all of Canada's gold

Alan Greenspan left an algorithm in his computer rigged economy for an eventual collapse. It was bound to happen and will occur soon. New economy though I don't think new government entity.
Retard.

Reminder, we had an okay economy before 1913 when it was decided to say fuck it and federal government started spending all willy nilly. Governments should realize they need to stick to a budget.
China as well. The us dollar is set to die.

youtu.be/lGMuGF9L0Yk

>is something based upon reality better than something contrived by jews to defraud the entire world

You tell me.

BRETTON. WOODS.

You could do it up until the early 30's, walk in and redeem your paper for physical silver and gold, if you take the tour of the NY fed the teller windows are still there, probably some pics online form back in the day.

Literally. I can see why Jews control people easily. Dumb niggers can't grasp the concept of wealth.

>New economy though I don't think new government entity.

If it were two or three generations ago for the West, where the vast majority of the population were white and Christian, I would agree.

Unfortunately we have too many savages in our midst and, the first time one of our welfare states writes a check it can't cash, and the gravy train gets cut off, we're going to see some serious shit.

Whatever emerges from that isn't going to be both "freedom-loving" and "multicultural". Pick one.

Oh okay, I see what you are saying, I thought you were using that example specifically and not the graph.

>wealth
Guns or Butter?

Trade paper until you die, goy.

The function of money is to establish a universal medium of exchange.

Of all the potential goods in existence, gold is the supreme money.

Fiat's value is derived from... a monopoly of paper printers? They don't even print much paper anymore, it's just data.

In the long run, maybe sooner than we think, fiat will die, and eventually, gold will take it's place as money.

>Alan Greenspan algorithm
Source that shit

This whole goddamn system is an artificial distortion in currency value.

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paper or metal, can't take it with you.

>Not knowing about the Law of Diminishing (Marginal) Returns

A FUCKING LEAF. Infinite (((GDP))) growth above 5-5.25% for a Western Country is near impossible and extremely unsustainable

Back to the topic on thread, China is trying to corner the precious metal market for this reason

>The function of money is to establish a universal medium of exchange.

>They don't even print much paper anymore, it's just data.

The latter statement makes the former obsolete. Money has just become a unit of value. In an age where everyone carries a computer in their pocket, it's not even necessary to standardize those units. You can nearly instantaneously convert any unit to another, from USD to gold to wheat futures to goats.

So the question now is: why do we even need governments to issue currency anymore? Why not privatize the maintenance of these units of value such that anyone can choose the one that fits their needs the best?

there is no such thing as a perfect fiat because the dynamics of a material economy will perfectly match a currency, competing currencies will cause conflicts and (((bankers))) will always play tricks with the money so they can enrich themselves

The gold standard would just give more power to the bankers/jews. They own most of the gold in the world.

Watch this youtube.com/watch?v=rtiOEpOnqtI

I would argue that unsteady deflation/inflation is good because it give an opportunity for smaller businesses and startups to gain headway while larger businesses struggle to adapt to the changing values in currency.

> Fiat's value is derived from...
Economic productivity. The value of a fiat currency is tied to the net/aggregate productivity of the nation it is tied to and represents the economy of, and other capital investments related to that country. For example, the US Dollar is in reality backed up by secured oil contracts (secured in dollars, giving credence to the dollar as an exchange medium), the US's word and trust that it will pay back its highly rated bonds, the force of the US military, and the productivity/trade of the US economy, it's wrong to just say that it's based on nothing.

I think that the idea of money backed by a tangible asset is solid. But at the same time the gold standard was subject to manipulation at times. It's better than fiat though, that's for damn sure. But I think that we could come up with something better.

But, as always, the first step is destroying the Federal Reserve.

i agree.
it's a scary thought but the upcoming economic collapse will be the chance for a white ethno-state.
even now the demographic change is becoming apparent. my city has a mexican running for mayor who will galvanize his base and this place will turn into an all out ethnic battlefield. it's thankfully contained to one group for now.
>tfw the rule of law collapses and i get to ethnically cleanse my neighborhood.
politicalvelcraft.org/2013/04/18/financial-world-today-makes-perfect-sense-understanding-the-common-criminal-part-1-of-3/
>“ROOTA” or “rootA” was one of the key programming concepts in financial computing using the computer programming language called “BASIC” in the 1960’s. Let’s put a few more things together – BASIC was invented by a man named John Kemeny who was a childhood friend of none other than Alan Greenspan! I find it interesting that Alan Greenspan was one of the few people at the time who knew this computer programming language and it was Greenspan who actually INVENTED financial computing!

roadtoroota.com
whether you're wearing a tinfoil hat or not, this theory has helped put things in to perspective of Trump's presidency and what's been going on for the last 40 years.

fiat currency cannot exist without the rule of law (((coercion)))

muh freedom

Energy standard is better.

>ROOTA

Thanks.

I don't think a backed currency would have to be necessarily backed by Gold or silver, just by a commodity with stable value and necessity.

What that commodity is remains to be determined. The only reason that the fiat USD has any value is due to the relationship with oil barrels. If oil was eliminated as a need then the dollar would lose all value.

Small inflation is better because it incentivizes you to do something with your money

>Small inflation is better because it incentivizes you to consume the products of the elite

FTFY

yes, specie currency is superior to fiat currency in EVERY way, unless your a banker or the government

> savings retain value instead of constantly eroding due to built in, deliberate price inflation
> exchange rates are steady not wildly fluctuating based on market Feels or "quantitative easing" (printing huge numbers of new fiat notes)
> hyperinflation is impossible unless somebody finds a way to artificially create vast amounts of new gold (goddamned harry potter!!!)
> fractional reserve lending is easily prohibited (loaning out more money than you actually have to lend)
> makes other countries assblasted as fuck when they have to pay you in GOLD but all they have is fiat notes
> cant transfer trillions of dollars overseas without a big ass boat
> govt cant run up massive debts without causing immediate backlash
> foreign interventions become incredibly expensive money pits unless you establish an actual empire to recoup the costs

returning to the gold standard would fix most problems we have in washington.

they wont do it, because washington and wall street love the fiat currency system.

InB4 "Sclomo Shekelberg and the jewish conspiracy..."
fiat currencies have been employed by tax and spend govts since the time of babylon.

Ok so technically though if cold fusion or dyson sphere was made, and infinite energy became existent then money would pretty much have no need amirite?

Everything would literally be free to everyone because you could basically create infinite anything you wanted not even limited to earth resources.

With 99% of all wars being fought over resources this would essentially set the platform for actual world peace

Consumption is only one possibility

gold is a meme and commodity money doesn't work
eliminating usury and the FED is a must, but people conflate issues with the system with issues with fiat money

> gold supply fluctuations cause "artificial" distortions in the value of currency
> Artificial...
> printing 200 trillion new obamabucks from thin air is natural, and cant effect the value of the currency
literally Wat???

> steady deliberately installed inflation is superior...
only if youre the guy who controls the money supply so you can pay off debt with new cheaper less valuable currency
if i lend you $100 and when the time comes to repay me you say "well i changed the rules, so i can now pay you back in newly monetized pocket lint and dandruff flakes..." YOU JUST ROBBED ME

more definitive proof that studying economics makes you shit at handling money or understanding economics.

studying economics is like majoring in "womens studies" cuz you think it will teach you how to pull more pussy

Venezuela wouldn't have their Inflation problem under a Gold standar.

Commodity money always works and gold it's valuable and useful, everytime you get a crisis, you can follow how the wealthy buy gold, it's really fucking obvious.

The advantage is it's a set baseline, there's only so much gold on earth, governments can't just print more gold or insist gold is rarer than it is, so you could only get real inflation if a meteor of gold crashed into the planet and only get real deflation if someone did some epic goldfinger scheme to nuke stockpiles of gold.

The disadvantage is most of the modern economy is based on airy fairy nonsense about people betting on the confidence jews have of various fiat currencies, and without that you couldn't have everyone LARPing that international debts are ever going to be paid off, so it'd fuck up basically all modern industries and governments and there'd be a lot of wars kicking off over it that are being kept at bay by scheming over the petrodollar and countries selling debt to each other and it'd take a while to get back to the current quality of life if corporations and states had to actually start dealing in real resources rather than meme IOUs, but that's probably going to all happen anyway so maybe it's better to just get it over with sooner rather than later while we're still relatively civilized and not trying to buy a loaf of bread for a trillion dollars.

>gold
>commodity
it's been a source of wealth since society began
> people conflate issues with the system with issues with fiat money
name me one successful nation in history that had fiat currency and is still around user.

> source: observations and notes blogspot
how terribly authoritative
im sure that graph is totally accurate and useful especially when removed from it's (dubious) context

Look at the Eurozone if you want to see what happens when you give up your printing presses

It's a retarded, anarcho-primitivist tier ideal. Why limit the economy to a mostly-useless metal found in limit quantities across the world. The true value of gold is actually not much more than the plastics used to make 'paper' currency (or the data infrastructure required to maintain a multi-dimensional wirable money we use today).

Retards, present your counter-arguments.

It has the disadvantage of unpredictable inflation/deflation depending on gold supply.

In theory, you could have a predictable stable money supply with fiat. In practice, governments will always use it as a tool of theft. In Europe mines used to coin currency, but governments monopolized it because it was a great tool of extortion.

TLDR Gold not perfect but better than fiat.

name one successful country in history that had a representative monetary system and is still around.

gold is a commodity and because of that the only way to implement a gold standard would be at a global level because if not everyone has the same exchange rate, you will see a mass siphoning of wealth out of your country

part of why Rome fell was that the exchange rate between gold and silver was 1 to 3 in Europe, and 1 to 7 in India. merchants would take all of Rome's silver and take it to India to buy gold then take back and buy more silver

so tell me why you're a globalist to satisfy your fucking meme money??

>[citation needed]

fait currency is worthless paper; a jewish conspiracy to enslave billions

>2017
>apparently no one in this thread has watch The Money Masters

the gold standard wont work now, all we need is a straight government backed government issued currency that is regulated by congress in which no interest is attached to said currency when initially printed and circulated and everything would be gg

Oy vey, the shills are thick in this thread

>yes goyim! Federal Reserve notes are vastly superior to gold

>Consumption is only one possibility

By design, it's the only option for most people.

We aren't simply talking about physical products here, of whatever sort. We're talking about securities, creating artificial demand for low-value stocks and bonds that the wealthy can unload on the masses. We're talking about all the low-interest vehicles that banks offer to drum up money to loan out for ten times the interest rate.

The uncomfortable truth is that it's not possible for any but a select few to invest in products that don't depend on perpetual consumption cycles. You can't sell unless someone buys, and you can't collect significant returns unless the number of buyers greatly exceed the number of sellers.

The people who want inflation are betting that they can leverage their existing position as a seller to stay on top. So far, they've been right.

> Fiat's value is derived from...
> a whole bunch of bullshit word salad
no, dumbass.
a fiat currency's value is entirely dependent on the confidence of the holder that he can trade it for goods and services.
if i try to pay you in peso notes you have to examine those notres and determine when they were printed cuz the may be worth 10% of current peso values, or 1% or even 0.1% depending which de-monetization schemes were implemented after those notes were printed
if you try to pay me in 500 rupee notes i simply wont take them because they recently became worthless by fiat, just as their initial value was established by fiat.

if you declare something to be legal tender, you can just as easily Un-Declare it, devalue it or simply abolish it, BY FIAT!

fiat money is only money "Because I Said So", and it's value is entirely derived from the confidence of the various members of the economy that the currency will retain it's value

(((economists))) have convinced us all that "inflation is good" so a steadily shrinking currency seems normal.
it is theft on a massive scale, but like mexicans, we simply accept that this corruption and graft is just how things work

>you have to support gold to oppose the federal reserve

> if you dont "invest" ill take it away from you because you arent doing what i want you to do with it...
was that money ever yours to begin with?
NOPE
free men own things, slaves are permitted the use of things by their masters.

0, it's cyclical.
>nations have a money supply that is stable
>the state starts to expand and take on new projects
>magically need more money
>start to devalue currency either by clipping off parts of the coins (jews) or mixing in other metals (copper) to extend the use of gold/silver
at this point i think it's just human nature to try and preserve what we have while expanding with no regard for the future. with so many people that have absolutely no idea how money works i can see why it happens.
us dollar already runs the world no need to call my sensible monetary policy a globalist plot. if gold was so useless why does the federal reserve keep such a large chunk of it around?
>exchange rate between gold and silver was 1 to 3 in Europe, and 1 to 7 in India
i would assume they can't get away with that anymore. just make sure to check your gold for tungsten.

Federal Reserve notes will only hold their value as long as the people believe in it. Problem is that were heading for a collapse at this rate. Interest rates have been artificially low for far too long, causing extreme amounts of borrowing and little to no savings. Companies are taking out huge loans and getting rich on paper and assets, but if the time comes to pay off significant amounts mass bankruptcy ensues. The dollar's value stays so high because it's the worlds trading currency. If the U.S. loses that the economy is heading south fast. Thats why middle east countries who want to switch to different currencies or a unified arab currency for oil trading get a big dose of freedom under the pretext of terrorism, WMD, chemical gassing, ect. There's also another inherent problem with the system. The federal government doesn't print the money, it borrows it from the reserve. How will the government ever pay back all the money plus interest if their money comes from borrowing from the institution they owe?

Libertarian ideology appeals to people with autism thanks to it's simplicity and order. Unfortuantely the real world proves to be infinitely complex over time.

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ANY currency is valued only so long as the holder is confident that he can exchange it for goods and services.

you could declare your toenail clippings to be worth $5,000,000 per gram but if nobody buys it, then what is that shit really worth?

currency is a medium of exchange in lieu of barter.
gold's advantage is that it is nearly impossible to make more gold
the only way to get more gold into the economy is to dig it up and that is the way economies truely expand.
find more resources, exploit those resources, grow.
everything else is a shell game

Any currency not backed by physical commodity is inherently worthless, and if implemented, a nations wealth would be determined by a group of (((elite)))

Gold is a good commodity, because it is rare, and is nonreactive - wont corrode or break down like iron or copper. Water or oil can (and have) been used to back currency, but are not as useful because they are consumable/dispensable. Gold is the best backer for money hands down

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Boi
The Rabbit whole is bigger than I thought
Can someone please tell me what fiat is?
I thought it was just a car company
Yes , I don't have any idea how money works, this thread is more about the supernatural to me than the entirety of /x/

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Dude, read some books. Anyone who gets all their information from Sup Forums is a retard.

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It's not hard to get a 2% return to beat inflation.

Dollars are not the only thing that depreciates. Most thing you 'own' are worth less than what you paid for them despite your ownership. If anything small amounts of inflation encourages the ownership of things.

Irony is that there is a conservationist argument to be made here.

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exactyl this
and thats why energy currency is the only way to issue a money that can continually grow but is based on something tangible and of high demand

I agree

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Think for a minutes about what you just said.

>the only way economies expand is by extracting a shiny and mostly useless metal from the dirt hills of the Congo

What about by making more cars? Inventing new algorithms to cut server costs? Increasing crop yields?

> Fiat
a declaration by the government that holds the weight of law
dictatorships do pretty much all their legislation through fiat from the supreme leader

Fiat currencies are money systems with no backing save the power of a govt.
if the govt declared (by fiat) that chicken feathers were the new currency, every poultry farmer would become rich overnight, but by the same token, he can be paupered just as quickly when another fiat changes the currency to tortoise shells or shiny pebbles.

>currency that has been deemed by the government to be legal tender
>no convertibility
i fucking wish. i'm seriously considering getting a teaching degree so i can yell at college kids about what bad decisions our governments make.

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Except a fiat currency's power comes not merely from the government, but also the people who trust the general market system. Sup Forums is no longer libertarian so the collective ideology should have no problem with the lack of gold standard.

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Nope.

What's the biggest single demand source for USD? Use your brain here, or what passes for a brain in your case. I'll give you another hint, which basically answers the first question: what do you have to satisfy any US tax burden in?

If you think really, really hard, you might start to grasp what the value basis of any sovereign non-specie currency is.

You also don't understand inflation. Here's a clue: what's the difference between real and nominal in economic science? Here's a hint to that clue: if a dozen eggs cost $0.05 30 years ago, and consumed 1% of your income every year, but a dozen eggs cost $2.75 today, and consume only .25% of your income every year, did the real cost of a dozen eggs rise or fall?

Honestly, most of you people are so fucking stupid, so fucking economically ignorant that I no longer attempt to educate or inform, but to mock. I honestly want to revive the gold standard or any other non-modular, non-scalable specie standard that can't be fiat-regulated just to watch you fucking faggots get crushed by debt deflation (hint: READ SOME FUCKING IRVING FISHER, YOU MORONS) and end up in bread lines, homeless, unable to support yourselves because you thought Ron Paul, a perfect fucking imbecile, knew something that actual economists (like me) didn't. You sorry, ignorant, stupid bastards.

nice pic. Mind if I save it?

>The present system is vastly superior.

You are just jelly that the Prime Cuck sold ALL OF YOUR FUCKING GOLD.

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Well, you can't. Unlike fiat, which can be created, specie is fixed, so there's just this one.

friendly reminder that your government over the course of almost 200 years gave away 66 billion ounces of silver for essentially nothing. Pancho Villa trying saving your country but you wouldn't listen. Mexico would be the top country or one of it it had conserved that wealth.

>It's not hard to get a 2% return to beat inflation.

The point isn't whether you beat inflation, it's what you have to do to beat inflation, or more pointedly why you should have to at all.

It would be prudent to ask whether and why the average person should have to subject their hard-earned money to risk simply to maintain its value over time.