Question on Healthcare Sup Forums

Question on Healthcare Sup Forums

I keep seeing people saying free healthcare is a right, etc basically bitching about how no one should die because they can't get medical care in CURRENT YEAR. I keep finding myself on the apathetic side of this argument. I'm not terrified of dying, it's a pretty natural thing. I probably wouldn't ever leave my family with the burden of insatiable debt that is the cost of healthcare in America. I mean I get that people are emotionally attached to people/scared of dying but why should we essentially make it a huge priority to save everyone we can when at most we as a species amount to termites on the planet?

Healthcare is a privilege, not a right

I agree, I'm just saying the otherside of the argument treats life as some sort of sacred and important thing. When in reality it kind of just is stamped out by a boot or a bullet thousands of times daily. I'm just trying to understand it.

You have no right to the product of someone else's labour; belief in a right to healthcare is a belief in slavery. Healthcare is a privilege, not a right.

K. Beetus is a hell of a condition.

Maybe I can explain you the rationale behind French healthcare :

Education is free, especially the most elite education you can get there. Success is something a lot of people owe to the state itself. So most people, except assholes, feel entitled to do their part in helping the state back. That's how you get the cash.

As for the healthcare system itself; that day, i saw a dude on Sup Forums complaining about white stools and not being able to shit or w/e. This may be his liver failing, and he'll probably never know cuz he doesnt even have the money to pay a fuckikg doctor. Healthcare is not only a matter of life and death, it's also a matter of comfort of life. How can you live normally if you have to fear the slightest flu ?

Honestly having your own company financing your health is fine too, but i'd rather it be a centralized organism. Since they are paying for the health thing and not actually producing them, they are not in a situation if monopoly and can't possibly screw us.

But at the same time, dudes probably a shitposter who will have literally no influence on the planet. Why continue to keep people alive when at the end of the day it means absolutely nothing and is actually detrimental in the long run?

I mean literally what you're arguing is "I feel bad for him he shouldn't have to go through that." I mean true theoretically we could force people into getting healthcare/ paying for other peoples etc. But what is the justification other than peoples rabid fear of death and an artificial extension of their life that in the end is worth nothing.

Well it depends on what point of view. If you're a rich person's viewpoint, yeah, you will pay way too much compared that it would be worth. If you're the average joe, more or less in terms of buying power, you can't deny that having the possibility to pay for shit that may be really useful to you but you can't afford would be very interesting.

And when you have a multitude of people having the same interest, they tend to team up, and that's how you get things loaning from your family to make a project or w/e, except its on a statewide scale. All in all, healthcare was created the same way a state is created : by the convergence of many interests. No one gives a fuck about your own healthcare; but everyone gives a fuck about theirs.

Like fish banks : they move the same way to avoid a predator, but they are not really together; their closeness makes us think that they are some kind of hivemind, while its really just the sum of a convergence of interests

Well, dude, that's terribly cynical.

Back then, a single infection could turn your life into a living hell. And let's not talk about diabetes or shit like that. Or the pain of terminal cancer. You can't possibly deny the empathy and sympathy factor here. People feel bad for other people having a shit life for something as easily treatable as a slight liver problem.

And honestly, since you want to go that way, i'd rather pay 30 dollars for a sick employee to be more healthy and productive again than letting him get sick over nothing. That's the reasoning behind company insurance for example

Even if healthcare were a right (it's not by the way) the government is under no obligation to provide it to anyone. Look at owning guns (which IS a right by the way) do you see the government providing guns for every citizen? No.

We really need to privatize and deregulate our healthcare. We currently have one of the most retarded systems. We have the 4th most socialized healthcare in the world (by governemnt GDP spent per person) and it sucks dick. Why not run it like vets run where there is less regulation and everything is dirt cheap. Vets often even use the exact same meds for animals that hospitals give to human patients (like most antibiotics for example).

>Equating Healthcare to guns

Health care is here to stay, Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness

Equating a right, to a "right", the comparison is relevant. Why should one "right" be provided, but not the other one?

And no, nobody should ever have a "right" to another person's labor (which is what a "right to healthcare" is). That's slavery and slavery was abolished during the Civil War.

They both should. It's ridiculous to say Healthcare shouldn't be a right. Yes, if I get into an accident I can go to the er, but for people with conditions and shit like that it doesn't work.

Unfortunately that seems to be the case. Looks like we'll have our shitty government-controlled pseudo-private healthcare system for the time being.

It's better than what we had before. It's not perfect at all, but people should work towards bettering it.

Actually, neither should. Why should I be forced to pay for a total strangers healthcare?

Why should I be force to pay for politicians, the military, anything? Besides you were already being forced to pay. People who can't pay thier medical bills. That shit eventually gets sent to the tax payers anyways. And it's terribly inefficient.

I misread your last question. Yeah the government shouldn't provide guns. Since I don't need a gun to keep me healthy and living. Unless I live in a shithole.

Well under the second amendment, citizens have the RIGHT to bear arms. It's a right. And I agree, just because we have a right to something doesn't mean it must be provided to us, just that we be free to provide it to ourselves. Same thing with healthcare, nobody can prevent you from going to the doctor, but if you have no money, you should be turned away, just like trying to get a gun with no money

It's easy to say you are OK with dying when you are not in imminent danger of death.

>living in a society is slavery
I'm not surprised by your flag, burger.

There is no such thing as free if it involves other peoples efforts or resources.

Even the oxygen you breathe is not free.

>free
Nothing is free. Stop listening to dumbass communist.
You don't have a right to make other people pay for your shit.

I shall explain something to you, you filthy frenchman and your socilist 'utopia'.

In Australia we have largly 'free' healthcare. As in if I was needing emergency attention I could go to an ED and get treated at no charge.

I could go see my own doctor for about $30 a visit. Which to most people is pretty reasonable.

Now what I take fucking exception to is this. We have hundreds if not thousands of people in this country with dozens of self-inflicted health problems.

Type 2 diabetees, hypertension, obesity, drug abuse and ethanol abuse, liver failure, AKD, so on and so forth.

So the process for someone being diagnosed consists of them seeing their personal Dr, being told what they have, what they need to do to manage/cure it and the contact details of specific services to deal with that condition, such as National Diabetes Hotline etc.

Now to the socilist that might seem fine and dandy. You feel people have a RIGHT to health care. No matter what they have done.

I shall share a story to you. I am a nursing student. I was on clinical placement last year at a public hospital.

It was a medical/palliative ward. Now what most public palliative patients when admitted will do is this; they try and see how much free shit they can get. Specifically, S8 drugs. These are drugs of high addiction potential and have very serious side effects. But they don't care. They are in pain. Why are they in pain?

Well because they have been an IV drug user for the past 20 yrs, drink 4 bottle of whiskey a day, eat around 15000 calories a day and haven't seen their feet in 5 years oh and also have type 2 diabetes.

So what the nursing staff are MANDATED to do, is make sure this piece of shit parasite is well fed, sleeps well, takes all his medication, can take a shit, is pissing properly etc etc.

Free healthcare is a meme.

>over 4 years for some surgeries
>over 6 months for brain surgery
>over 1 year to see specialists

>hospital has been in ruins for decades
>no clean drinking water
>rats
>bed bugs
>walls falling apart
>not enough staff so nothing gets cleaned for weeks on end
>not enough supplies and supposedly they cant sterilize properly

FREE HEALTH CARE - NOT EVEN ONCE

Cont

90% of public patients do not give a flying fuck about being in hospital. They don't care about their long term health or the system that supports them.

We have fucking doctors that will admit people for the most trivial reasons.

These people are non compliant with treatment and cause the nursing staff to rip their hair out in frustration.

The public system needs a major overhaul and to crack down on the parasites who use it for all its worth and never give a goddamn thing back.

Yes, and being the trash aussie you are, you'd rather see them die in a fucking alley instead of finding a real way of making them overcome their problems.

You fucking idiots always think that socialists are advocating for the current social system. We are obviously striving for a foolproof system as much as you, without throwing people in the fucking streets without any chance of redemption like you would like to.

Heres the thing
Its so fucking privelidged in the US that
You cant diagnose yourself
You need a perscription for antibiotics,anti psychotics, and heart and diabetes medication.
You must see a doctor for these things.
Not only that but if you want to partake in other societal institutions you have to be vaccinated and innoculated.
So healthcare is a privelege in as much as taking part in society is.

And its so fucked up. People think pills solve everything.

If only canada could get a glut of specialists somehow

Healthcare is not healthcare in the U.S.
Doctors and pharmaceutical companies center more on making money than cultivating and restoring health.

The costs are insane.

Healthcare is a right in a society that promotes and culturally punishes abuses of health. We dont do that in this country. People live unhealthy lifestyles. Companies promote it. Doctors and healthcare professionals fuck you financial if you become ill or need a checkup.

The whole system is based on exploitation.
As a result, there was hesitation to make it a 'right' because everyone knows:
> Socially, america supports shit health standards and practices
> Companies make tons of money off of making people unhealthy
> People don't try to maintain healthy lifestyles
> Healthcare industry focuses on profits not helping the patient

So, giving people healthcare in such an environment is a recipe for bankrupting the institution who underwrites it.

Profits focused society vs. one focused on well-being

You ever think to realize that people in general are just as short sighted as you judgements on them?

I mean you see these fucks for like what 12 hrs a day for like what 2. Months at most
And even then its not just that fuck you're tending too.

Nope your insight into the human condition is so crystal goddamn clear that you can proclaim yourself king of al shitheels so you can ultimatly decide which one of these fucks is gonna die becuase they arent fucking worth your time any way.

Fuck off you cunt,
Go get a fucking engineering degree.

Ik it's hard to believe but we payed for people's health insurance before Obama care who had on going medical conditions. When you applied for ss you got free healthcare like you can now. The only thing we've accomplished with Obamacare is forcing ppl to buy insurance even If they can't afford to use it. If you do not buy health insurance they take money out of your taxes.

your tax return.

We shouldn't because healthcare is not a right. You can't have a right to something that requires coercing someone else to work for you.

There should be a baseline of healthcare which is socialized in the US. Especially as jobs become more automated in the future. People want more, they can pay for different tiers of private or employer based insurances. This to me is reasonable.