How would I respond to a liberal who says "so your idea of health care is to let people die?"

I always hear this talking point when libtards discuss healthcare, and why I'm a bad person for opposing "healthcare for all" and supporting the free market. It sounds really stupid. How should I respond?

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Not only should we let the poor die, we should actively work towards killing the poor.

If they are so concerned about letting people die, why aren't they donating more of their own personal resources to preventing that from happening?

Well, here we haved the two system, and private is total shit, worst than madoff.

"Only if they're niggers or spics or kikes or sandniggers or liberals or faggots."
Honesty is the best policy.

Say that you believe that the privatization of health care leads to better coverage for all. Public health care still isn't free, and it has its limits.

I personally value public health care as I am someone who it benefits a lot (young, single, healthy), but I think an argument either way is valid. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

Respond with "yes, I support the right to die, don't you?"

just roll with it and say yes some people aren't compatible with being alive anymore, especially the very old, the obese and drug users

they're using an easy childish moralistic argument when society needs to be cold and pragmatic to function properly

tell them to pay for it themselves

Tell them "healthcare for all" isn't nearly enough.
You demand:
>sportscars for all
>private jets for all
>college for all
>paid vacations for all
>etc.

Fuck liberttrtratrtaa i want my state healthcare back.

There is nothing you can say that won't make you sound like a total tool.
The richest country in the world cant afford single-payer healthcare? Give me a break cuckservative.

That sounds bag for the economy mate...

That's not the right to die, says the liberal smugly, that's the duty to die.

He got you there...

How is letting people die of natural causes worse than actively killing babies?

This, also

>You don't have the right to other's people's services.

Health care for all though is good for the economy.

A father has a heart attack: a kid has to drop out of college to take a job and feed his family as his father recovers, the economy takes a hit because now instead of an engineer it has a minimal wage worker.

Pretty shitty situation.

there is nothing you can say that won't make you sound like a total tool.
The richest country in the world cant afford free market healthcare? Give me a break cuckservative.

You use public streets for free, police protects you for free, you clear have a right to other people services since you are paying taxes.

>A father has a heart attack: a kid has to drop out of college to take a job and feed his family as his father recovers, the economy takes a hit because now instead of an engineer it has a minimal wage worker.
What the actual fuck does that have to do with healthcare?

wow nice anecdote but it doesnt jive with reality
the biggest cost to our healthcare is fat people. subsidizing them is the LAST thing you want to do!

Just steamroll over them. "That isn't what I said" and then continue talking. If they shout, let them shout and then continue calmly when they finish while totally ignoring everything they shouted about. They are children is basically what I'm saying, treat them as such.

tell that to someone living in detroit
>b-but thats not REAL statism

Yet I can't demand a level of service despite paying excessive amounts.

This is exactly how socialized health care works in Canada. Have waiting lists so long that some die before receiving treatment. This is how we manage costs.

The prices are high in medicine and acedemics to artificially inflate the US' economy, who cares when insurance/gov/ whoever else is paying amirite:^^^^^^))))

-Families bankrupt to pay medical bills, family might have assets that they have to sell to pay the debts when they could have coasted on it.

-Free healthcare means regular check-ups and a lot of prevention that people without insurance skip opening then the possibility for worse conditions in the future.

A healthy population, is a working population and that is an economy and a country that thrives. Public health makes us all richer.

I was thinking that too. The retarded argument they use is a complete strawman.

>streets are a service
>police protect you
>streets and police are free
Phoneposting so I have no reaction images. Someone please post smug and/or incredulous reaction images, thank you kindly.

If only our wait times were this low.

>Free healthcare means regular check-ups
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

fuck off libertarians this is a national-socialist here.

>he doesn't know what strawmen is
>shitting on your own healthcare so you get good goy points with anonymous burgers

British healthcare is vastly superior to american in pretty much every point.

What did Hitler say about healthcare?
>the only logic you need

You can't afford a level of service.
That's the lesson of privatizing. Most people can't afford private security, healthcare, roads. That's why they pool resources and get them.

Do you think that with 50% extra of your income you can actually afford everything that the government does? Don't make me laugh

They are still using the streets for free. His argument is still wrong.

Wow nice diversion. I'm not talking about cost of healthcare, I'm talking about economy losing opportunities by society promoting a silly individualism that benefits no one on the long term, and damages all of us.

As if more fags dying from AIDS would be a bad thing.

Is it not true?

Sweden
#1 in costs
dead last in almost everything else
No wonder why you are cost effective

Never change Sweden

Lol somebody is mad at their dad

I trust more this ranking though: thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

Ask what benefit is to save them

>How would I respond to a liberal who says "so your idea of health care is to let people die?"
"yes"

healthcare is one of those things that should not be capitalized other than the innovation of treatments and medication aspect of it. It is a universal right to be healthy in a system that promotes illness inadvertently.

Fuck that appeal to emotion

Here's what you point out:
Healthcare is not a right, because it is a service.
It requires the labor of skilled practitioners to conduct
and Skilled Labor costs MONEY

Them demanding Free Healthcare is them demanding free labor from healthcare practitioners
and is therefore them advocating for some form of slavery to work

Either:
1. You force people to provide service, thus creating slavery
or
2. You fail to provide adequate/sufficient Healthcare, and thus failing to meet demand for all

Motherfucker what shitty phone are you using that you don't have access to reaction images?
>not having smuggies saved to your smart phone
I shitty diggy

Here is the truth. In America, only the top two percent could possibly afford the medical costs out of pocket or even stay afloat in the case of a true medical emergency. Should healthcare really cost that much?

With very simple facts. Number one being that NOTHING is free, and their evil 1% doesn't care if they live or die.

"If you're so concerned about the poor having healthcare, you can donate or vounteer to a private charity, or even start one. Nobody is stopping you. Stop trying to take the moral high ground by 'caring' about poor people's health care while doing nothing to help the situation other than voting. Europeans donate less money and time at every economic level to charity, because they let the government do it for them."

Yeah, lets let the healthcare jew suck us dry.

Profiting from healthcare was illegal until the 1960s

>How should I respond?

If you can't defend your own beliefs, then you're just parroting others.

Learn to come up with your own answers - you fucking sheep.

What's wrong with those waiting times? It's a clear order of triage, your knee replacement doesn't threaten your life and can wait a bit.

Besides, health care in Canada cost the government less per capita than pre-obamacare US health costs.

The fact that Portugal, a shitskin country with a average income per capita 1/3rd of the american one is 25 spots ahead of USA is something to make us all think

Dont. They unironically put Cuba(where they don't have fucking penicillin) next to the US.

UN healthcare charts are so fucking flawed it's beyond retarded.

It makes the country stronger and everyone richer?

Kill yourself

Kek

Costs your government more and still puts you tens if thousands in debt, and ranks lower in quality of care than all of these countries

Sad.

Resources are not limitless. Free markets ration by price, universal care rations by lottery or first-come-first-serve. Both systems have the same number of doctors, working the same hours, treating the exact same number of patients, so its stupid to say more or less will die.
The only difference between the systems is that a free market naturally uses resources more efficiently, leading to more healthcare over time, while a universal system has the sole benefit of allowing systemic discrimination, such as letting all the jews die no matter how many shekels they've stolen.

if the economy wasn't so fucked up by liberal economic policies everyone could afford private healthcare and it would be given away for free to homeless people

F
P
B
P
S
P
Still a great
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strawpoll.me/12890405

>Ranks lower in quality of care than most developed nations
>Costs the government more per capita
>Is an undue burden on citizens

How can you possibly claim this is more efficient

>How would I respond to a liberal who says "so your idea of health care is to let people die?"
With an uppercut.

>what is morality?
Just because you don't like people doe ante an you should kill them

Society has a duty to take care of its people, whether they be homeless veterans or rich jews

>ends up with an amputated hand
How you cooking pigeon under a bridge now sucker

>How would I respond to a liberal who says "so your idea of health care is to let people die?"

Actually yes when they're old, suffer from multiple disease processes, and it will cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep them alive for the next 6mo-1yr. That's what hospice is for.

25000 people a year died of preventable diseases in the us before obamacare. Seems fair enough to put it around there.

No one literally believes that conservative policies can lead to economic prosperity, not even conservative economists.

here's the solution: public OPTION

make a health care service available and affordable much like the police and fire departments in every county or town across the country.

Don't prevent a private practitioner from starting their own clinic.

Imagine if a doctor right out of med school goes into general practice for the federal healthcare system, for about $80-$90k a year while developing relationships with people in their age group (entrepreneurs, younger tradesmen, artists, low income workers). When that practitioner decides to go private they'll have a rolodex of patients they could take with them for specialized care or more convenient appointments.

Meanwhile, everybody else who can't afford private healthcare or has fallen on hard times can still get covered for preventative treatment through the public option, and doesn't become a burden on the rest of us by going into cardiac arrest during rush hour due to an undiagnosed heart condition.

>leaf
I claimed the opposite

You come up with your own fucking opinion and stop asking people on the internet you fucking retard

Oh boy wait until you find out what Veblen goods are

because people die and trying to save everyone from their problems is an idealistic fools errand that is likely to do nothing more than strain the capacity of the charity of general humanity?

I mean being practical here.

>The only difference between the systems is that a free market naturally uses resources more efficiently

My point was that it fails to even do that, it costs more for worse care, that's hardly using resources more efficiently

get past PragerU youtube videos and come to the realization that undiagnosed or preventative problems that could have been cheap to treat three or four years ago will be very expensive as acute conditions.

Imagine running a company, one of your employees tells you they aren't feeling well. Your response would be to tell them not to get sick and get back to work. Fast forward six years and that employee, who hasn't taken sick time but has complained regularly about dizzy spells and feeling unwell, sprays diarrhea shit all over the conference room during a big sales meeting before keeling over dead.

You scream at them for fucking up and getting sick, your company doesn't get the contract, you go out of business.

If only there was something you had done.

Let's be practical:

The more people there are in a risk pool the more the risk is distributed the less the individual cost is. That's why it's better for companies to get insurance for their employees, rather than the single employees to get it for themselves.

Now, the biggest pool you can have in the nation is the nation itself, so the way to make the insurance the least costly is to insure everyone. \

Let's also be practical: people spend approx 15% of their pretax income on health insurance, let's tax everyone 5% extra and the money that comes out of that devolve it uniquely to health insurance. You will have so much money you won't know what to do with that.

The only people who don't care about public health insurance, are corporate dudes who can discharge it on the company. You are playing the hand of the elites.

your claim is bogus and you can't rake yourself out of this one

while I agree with you on the economic practicality of national coverage (also getting people preventative care is a major cost savings in the long run) I would not block private enterprise from performing a similar duty.

We have county sheriffs, but you can also hire rent-a-cops.

We have the Post-Office, but you can always use FedEx or UPS if you want.

Why should healthcare be any different?

Because its mostly used by old retired people. It's a literal drain on the economy with no returns.

The cost of any good or service is reflected on the amount of possible or at least expected reasonable total capital value.
Furthermore, by creating a situation where a good or service is funded via mandate, you eliminate the free market and it's incentive based performance effect.

sure lets throw away people as soon as they cant work anymore. perfect way to keep the poor people happy with the 1% getting everything.

>Why should healthcare be any different?
What kind of dumb argument is this? Healthcare is not the same thing as UPS, so it should not be treated equally

>t. Hippie boomer who didn't save for retirement.

If you cannot cut inefficiencies the system will breakdown. This is one of the reason universal healthcare would suck in America cause will be political football that would encompass politics like social security.

Free market is already out of the option for multiple reasons:

1) People are forced to get healthcare, once they need it you can ask whatever price, you are holding them hostage, so the price does not reflect the value.

2) Healthcare is already a monopoly. The services are priced by contracting between the insurances and the AMA (medicaid being the strongest insurer and the one actually strong arming the doctors). AMA sits down and contracts the prices and then hospitals hire people to go through these contracts and find ways to bill as much as they can insurance companies which then rise premiums on all of us. Doctors have no interest in lowering prices because there is no actual competition, they are a cartel.

3) A national system can still allow a private system. Insurances can still exist as supplementary care insurances (like aflac). Doctors can op out of the public system (like it already happens, the best doctors don't accept any insurance). And the result will be a healthier market that is more representative of the services.

there is no way you actually believe I'm a hippy. you cant let the old and the poor lament in the streets without major problems.

>inb4 it should be the burden of the children.

These people have all the prince in the top 5 of their reading list and understand nothing of government.

Good preventative health care would literally save billions of dollars in annual costs retard.

It isn't about them not being able to work; it's about their bodies breaking down due to the aging process. Society is not responsible for grandma's futile attempt to cling to life.

If you don't know how to answer such a basic question you've already lost the argument.

>"so your idea of health care is to let people die?"
>no, my idea of healthcare is to let people be responsible and buy their own coverage.

Lol I like how now capitalism is the one that requires character and honorable behavior to work.

Wasn't socialism the system that didn't take into consideration human nature?

Also is teaching a moral lesson to others worth paying everyone more for worse healthcare?

we'll see how you feel about it as your parents die. the only reason your parents dont bankrupt you when they get older is because of the socialized health care net. you really cant trust people to do the right thing anymore can you. so you must force them in areas like healthcare. profit margins are for luxuries not necessities.

You should tell them about the reality of free healthcare. My local hospital has rats, bed bugs, walls falling apart, water that you cant drink or brush your teeth with, not enough staff and they supposedly havent been sterilizing equipment properly, the washrooms and every surface is filthy, we have long wait times, 4 year long wait times for some, 6 months for brain surgery, 1 year to see a specialist. If I ever hear an american talk about free healthcare I will punch him.

It's about you receiving your parent's house and their savings because they didn't have to spend them all on healthcare.

I think you have a vested interest in that.

I don't want to pay for your shit

>Free market is already out of the option for multiple reasons:
>1) People are forced to get healthcare,
nice circular logic

what you're describing is free healthcare and it doesn't work because nothing is free

if its because of their own shitty choices then yes just let them die, thats what they chose.

give them a freeby or 2 so its not too harsh. and if they can, have them pay for it fully after that.

It's not free it's paid by tax payers. The same way the streets you walk on for free, or streetlights at night are "free"

See here on ideas on how to pay less healthcare and have it for everyone:

no its hedging your bets. the bottom line is without medi-cal and other programs there would be nothing to incentivize you to work. If you knew that most likely you would put your kids into debt when you got older what would be the point of capitalism for the average man? work hard all your life to put your kids into unrecoverable debt. not a very appealing prospect and could easily be avoided by just moving innawoods.

People are forced to get healthcare, as in "if they don't get cured they die" not as in ACA demanding that you get one.

And "or you die" makes the choice not a viable choice, or you could say that the bandit asking you "to pay or die" is not really robbing you because he is actually offering you a choice.

Say this to them.

Except you object to state health-care just on ideological grounds because you can't admit to be wrong.

Just let your vanity go...

Poor people should be subsidized (they are).
Prices should be reasonable if you pay cash.
Basic services shouldn't be covered by insurance to drive down prices.
Young/healthy should be able to buy cheap catastrophic insurance.
If all that fails then bill the person and let them make payments.
No one should be denied care but they should pay if they refused to plan ahead or buy a catastrophic plan.