Why is existence the way it is?
Why were we put here to endure and see horrific things? War, death, and loss are innate to the human experience and although in this modern age we get a lot of respite from these things they are still a vicious and real reality for all humans. I just really wonder why it has to be this way, certainly God cannot take any enjoyment seeing his creation defiled and destroyed in such a manner just look at the horrors of war, the destruction that befalls human beings and the terrible losses we all endure. Is that what we are here for? To have everything we've grown to love, our families and friends, ripped away by Deaths clutches? Why is it this way? Why would God allow us to endure such intense pain, pain so great it causes grown men to break down and weep? Pain so great it brings people to take drugs, to drink, to end their own lives just to make it stop. Will it ever be fixed?
Why is existence the way it is?
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because this is hell.
Fpbp
Rotate that image to the left 90 degrees.
You are welcome.
But there is good. Everyone has some pleasure in life or else everyone would have ended it a long time ago. Although as Shakespeare puts it the fear of death may be what keeps us all from ending it and if thats the case then it really makes you wonder why the world exists anyways.
Our lives here are fleeting in the grand scheme of things.
We are doing this to ourselves and creating our own "hell" on earth.
There is no why
Look up the four noble truths
embrace antinatalism
idgi
Without suffering, stakes, pros and cons life would be fucking boring thats why. You really want just 24/7 pure pleasure, that would be hell, what is accomplishment without sacrifice or hard work?
What is life without death, what is a day without sleep?
Pussies cursing conflicts make me puke inside. Whitout struggles we wouldn't even be alive.
Sin and death to be overcome through Christ
>Will it ever be fixed?
For us? No. Humanity is made to suffer and die.
For other life in the future it is possible. But not due to our efforts.
>why is existance the way it is?
Here's what I've found. God is within you and without you at the same time. you can find him at the very edge of space and in the darkest depth of your own consciousness. You and god are synonymous. In that sense, you made existence the way it is, in all the existentialist implications of that statement.
>baby's first existential crisis: the post
Without pain, would you know pleasure?
Without hate, would you know love?
Without death, would you know life?
Without darkness, would you know light?
Because god is not real
>inb4 fedora
We are animals although extremely smart ones we are still bound by some laws of nature, the want for power, sexual desire, recognition, even simple things like food and shelter are not dreamt up and made by a human, they were within us since day1.
There is no objective correct morality life is what you make of it and with the "death" of God in society new morals will be created and the superior men will arise and live by their own rules ruling over the others lest we all become a degenerative mess.
literally pleb tier introspection. Why are the laws of physics what they are? How does a lump of physical matter experience qualia? Why do coupled chaotic oscillators synchronize the way they do and how does this impact the mind/body problem?
To build us up.
The film projector is not the image on screen.
If the projector BELIEVED the image was caused by him or other imaginary entity then it would feel your pain.
It's just an image bro.
The laws of physics have no part on human morals. They are laws and so far we know they cannot be broken as far as out understanding goes. If we were not around the laws of physics are still there it's just the animals have no recognition of them as "laws" Gravity does not control if murder is right or wrong.
It's morally okay in Ancient Sparta to throw babies off cliffs and it's morally okay to sacrifice slaves to the sun god in Aztec Mexico. If you were born in Ancient Egypt you would not worship the old testament you would believe in rar and kek and other weird gods.
Morals come from your society and family, with science becoming more prevalent (For the better or worse) the morals of Christianity will fade and new ones will arise
>science becoming more prevalen
Science doesn't have the ability to objectively prove morality any more than religion, seeing how you entire argument is predicated on the notion that morality is culturally subjective.
morality is associated with the intersection of material phenomena and the qualia state of honor/shame. How exactly this works out is iffy but in general it involves working in the best interest of some culturally prescribed ideal. Group stability for traditionalists/alt right, equity for libs/sjw's, personal freedom for lolbertarians. I agree with bongbro that it isn't objective, but I still think that there's a higher order of being or system of logic beneath the universe that you could call god.
agreed. Life in itself is rape, forced on everyone brought into being. Nobody asked to be born.
If there is a god, and he makes it all better on the other side for the good people. I still woulden't approve one wit. He's a right bastard.
>certainly God cannot take any enjoyment
>Will it ever be fixed?
Your problem is that you blame everything on invisible beings and expect them to baby you. Fix yourself. Act like a man or be culled from the herd.
Pain or damage don't end the world - Deadwood - Swearengen
You need to look into quantum consciousness theory. (((They))) don't talk about it often, but some fascinating research is being done on the subject.
>Science doesn't have the ability to objectively prove morality any more than religion
Because Science has no morality, two hydrogen plus one oxygen = water
No morals there. Testing diseases and hazardous waste on prisoners or animals. Nope no science morality there since science is merely understanding how the universe works, only christian morality on life and rights of a man there.
It's like maths 1 + 1 = 2 no morals there just facts
Definition of Morality
Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour. What you would call wrong might be very right to a satanic cultist. Because there is no objective good or bad.
is Abortion always bad?
Some say yes some say no
>If there is no extant God and no extant gods, no good and no evil, no right and no wrong, no meaning and no purpose: if there are no values that are inherently valuable; no justice that is ultimately justifiable; no reasoning that is fundamentally rational, then there is no sane way to choose between science, religion, racism, philosophy, nationalism, art, conservatism, nihilism, liberalism, surrealism, fascism, asceticism, egalitarianism, subjectivism, elitism, ismism. If reason is incapable of deducing ultimate, non-arbitrary human ends, and nothing can be judged as ultimately more important than anything else, then freedom is equal to slavery; cruelty is equal to kindness; love is equal to hate; war is equal to peace; dignity is equal to contempt; destruction is equal to creation; life is equal to death and death is equal to life.
― Mitchell Heisman, Suicide Note
Then he blew his brains out.
All living things on this planet are forged. They are always imperfect but also always taking a more perfect shape through the ages, blue pilled people don't realize that through forging a blade must be heated and hammered into a more perfect shape repeatedly and then tempered until it is judged usable. If it is too imperfect it is cast and melted down in the forge again and remade. That is how we are where we are today, anyone who says otherwise is wrong or misleading you.
>Why were we put here to endure and see horrific things?
>implying these things are inherently horrific
>god
You know how some kids like to catch insects just to torture them? Yeah, that's why.
>dualism is necessary and desired
Not really.
This is the kalki yug all of this was predicted, wait for the next yug
we were put here on this earth to feel joy
You can't know one without the other. They form the basis of the idea of opposites.
if it was different you'd ask why it's that way instead of another way.
you're a faggot. people who ask a loaded why question often just want to give you their answer, because they've got it all figured out. the moment these people get a taste of power, they abuse it to force into reality their spastic imaginations, and you always get tragedy because they never compete their ideas in dialogue or discussion, after all they know what's best how could you possible change a single word of it.
a good lesson to learn is to fuck off and leave people alone. you can go do whatever it is you want, but eventually someone stronger or better than you is going to take anything of value that you have. and all your bullshit theories and fantasies will be forgotten. human history is filled with useless idiots like you, a dime a dozen, all gaping at the sky wondering what it means.
sooner or later a bird shits in your mouth.
>dont blame god, blame yourself
Why even play the blame game?
And?
Still doesn't change the fact there is no objective morality. If I blew my brains out because I can't handle 1 + 1 it doesn't change it. If you were born and raised like a 5th century Viking your not going to have the same morals on killing and raiding as a 2017 Christian in India.
Morality just comes from the people around you, if everyone in your Brazilian jungle tribe had gaysex and had so for hundreds of years if you were raised there you would see nothing wrong with it.
Now your arguing the advancement of Science and the weakening of traditional Christian values is bad, even that in itself is flawed since there are plenty of communists and Muslims who welcome the change. There is no giant voice in the sky saying Good or Bad
God damnit (pun intended), you beat me to ir
I like the Norse interpretation.
We were put here because the God/s foresaw the final battle between good and evil, and saw that evil might win.
So man was created to be warlike. To suffer. To endure. We were made not to live peacefully, but to be trained as footsoldiers to hold back the dark. To prepare ourselves to stand beside our creator and find the devils who want to destroy us all.
I know, but it doesnt mean it is desired or inevitable structure for the future.
Torture isnt horrific?
Which system of morality would you personally prefer to live under?
I would choose one were I get to kill people randomly. It would be fun to play God, don't you think.
>if it was different you'd ask why it's that way instead of another way.
Not if it was radically different.
So abandon the idea now, because one day it might not be desired or structural?
You are describng the way things are, which is easy. The OP asked if it has to be this way, coukd it be better? The answer is yes.
S-s-s-source to back up that claim?
Better is a subjective concept ya know.
The desirable state is implied in the question. Objective status is irrelevant. Besides, common experience would suggest that contentment is preferable to torment.
he lacks the basic principles of masculinity
which is:
>shut up
>get on with it
>if you say something, make it short and amusing
introspection is part of guile and deception (self-deception in this case) and falls under the feminine arts of seduction, intrigue and mystery. that shit can go fly off a cliff, it kept us in the stone age for 100,000 years, dumb fucking roastie goddess cults.
>If you don't believe in god you have no morals
Wrong, classic fallacy. Still doesn't mean shit there is no objective morality.
Abortion
Gays
Murder in robbery
Rape
Warfare
Refugees
Welfare
What about a society where we beat up and kill Jews is that moral?
How about where we live in a peaceful society but the enemies of state get sacrificed to a sun god?
You think that way because of you were raised, if you were brought up in a anarcho communist house you would have different values to a conservative Christian household
Not inherently. If I find torture horrific, that's a fact about my mental state, not a fact about the torture itself.
The desirable state is subjective to OP. You can't know what OP wants whether it's contentment or ultimate power over the universe as it wasn't stated in the question. You are assuming you know what's wanted and basing your response of that assumption. You have no objective basis to give the answer you did. You are paying OP lip service.
Thats a fair distinction. But only reframes the question about why it is and how to better it.
I never said that. Why are you putting words in my mouth? I'm only stating that I would prefer to live under a morality in which I have the power to determine your life and death.
Now answer me this, what type of moral system do you want to live under?
To the extent that i agree that the human condition involves pain and desirbances. Intuiately I agree we should try to fix this. This is why I bothered to communicate my point of view. Objective doesnt matter, only relatability, which more broadly is the basis of human thought.
God is looking for perfection. Nature is basically a battle computer. Civilization is a corrupt copy, that produces human garbage to destroy this majestic system. All of our spiritual beliefs are grounded in narcissism and sophistry. We deserve God's wrath.
>Objective doesnt matter, only relatability, which more broadly is the basis of human thought.
So you can make up whatever you want as long it's relatable, while making no attempt to find the truth. That's nice to know.
Haha, indeed. Every thought you have implies it can be shared with others. Our conscious existance depends solely on relatibility. Objectivity comes later, and is more abstract.
A Fascist system of government
Says something doesn't it. I'm willing to completely shit on minorities for the good of my people. Where as Libertarians and plenty of peoples want freedom for all in the nation be you Muslim,Black or White and are willing to import refugees into their nation.
Is murder always bad?
stopping a robber in a small shop?
How about stopping a robber robbing a rich bank?
How about stopping a rape?
Getting rid of minorities?
Shooting someone stealing a apple?
All of these change on where your from, your conditions of life and who you live amongst.
There is no objective Good or Evil since plenty of people will think a murder can never be justified while plenty of Texans will happily blast your face off for stealing a $500 tv from their house.
Im not arguing for the best system or whenever the decline of religion is a good or bad thing, I'm simply stating there is no correct Good or Evil
>Our conscious existance depends solely on relatibility
You're talking about our gross experiences, external to ourselves.
Now explain the subtle internal experiences that I can't relate to you like how I experience beauty.
>i can think my thoughts, I know you can think as well, but we can't think each others thoughts.
>i can feel and I believe you can feel, but we can't feel each other's feelings
>i can intuit, just like you can intuit, but we can experience one anothers intuition
You point of view is not taking any of this into consederation.
Fair enough. But your belief in that system of morality, or goverance, is based off what you believe to be good and evil, right and wrong. How can you choose to believe that when you know there is no objective morality?
Go outside and ask the same question but apply it to an ant you find. Then apply that answer to your own life.
Ta da.
Its not perfect, but this is how our internal world evolved. This could not have happened unless we had similar experiences to others. The implication is the best indicator we have, sorry
Source for that claim on the evolution of our internal world? Once again you are making an assumption. You are taking your experiences and belief and thoughts and projecting them on the world at large.
>I stood on a lofty mountain and saw a gigantic man, and another - a dwarf, and I heard as it were a voice of thunder, and it spake unto me and said, "I am thou, and thou art I. In all am I scattered, and whencesoever thou willest, thou gatherest me, and in gathering me, thou gatherest thyself"
-the gospel of eve
>why would god
god doesn't exist. Even if humanity was created by someone/something it's pretty obvious they couldn't give any less of a shit about us.
>inb4 tips fedora
I don't actually consider it a good thing or something to be happy about that god doesn't exist. In fact, i desperately want for him to exist because if he doesn't then oh boy live indeed is a fucking mess. But i'm not gonna believe just on "muh fate" alone. Christians, Muslims, Buddhists etc. all are convinced that their god is the right one, the only real god and that the religion they happen to believe in is the correct one. I just can't take them seriously.
It's all pretty fucking sad, desu.
I don't know how much longer i can take it.
>What about a society where we beat up and kill Jews is that moral?
idk, are those jews criminally impoverishing vast swathes of people through usurious loans?
if so then there is certainly a strong argument to be made
Life is suffering and only the dead know peace.
It comes from a evolutionary stand point.
Looking at it from a purely Darwinist point of view I want to preserve and pass on my genes and for my "tribe" "herd" "Society" whatever someone classifies it, the best way to do that is a stable homogeneous society as simply from my view I want my genes and my families genes to be successful as the entity of life from records show it is a fight of life and death for possibly billions of years of species being exterminated.
Here's a little recap of some of the writings of nietzsche, of which some were picked up by Nazism.
Zarathustra ties the Übermensch to the death of God. While this God was the ultimate expression of other-worldly values and the instincts that gave birth to those values, belief in that God nevertheless did give meaning to life for a time. 'God is dead' means that the idea of God can no longer provide values. With the sole source of values no longer capable of providing those values, there is a real chance of nihilism prevailing.
Zarathustra presents the Übermensch as the creator of new values. In this way, it appears as a solution to the problem of the death of God and nihilism. If the Übermensch acts to create new values within the moral vacuum of nihilism, there is nothing that this creative act would not justify. Alternatively, in the absence of this creation, there are no grounds upon which to criticize or justify any action, including the particular values created and the means by which they are promulgated.
In order to avoid a relapse into Platonic idealism or asceticism, the creation of these new values cannot be motivated by the same instincts that gave birth to those tables of values. Instead, they must be motivated by a love of this world and of life. Whereas Nietzsche diagnosed the Christian value system as a reaction against life and hence destructive in a sense, the new values which the Übermensch will be responsible for will be life-affirming and creative
And who are you to say so, millions more people will say a murder is never justified.
There is no correct answer, no giant always correct voice booms down and tells you it's okay to kill this one man. It is what you make of it
Go ahead and try to form a coherent thought without language.
Linguistics, anthropology, philosophy, evolutionary psychology... Do your own research.
Thats it from me.
>the best way to do that is a stable homogeneous society
Subjective. Genetic diversity within the gene pool is also considered better by some.
I agree that nilihism represents the logical conclusion of our values and ideals, but the idea that nihilism itself is more than a vehicle is counter-intuitive. The ideology claims to believe in nothing and therefore is believed to be as close to objectiveism as we can get. The question is why throw away the values and ideals that built our civilization? You must believe that those values and ideals are inherently 'bad' or 'wrong' before you can decide to throw them away. This is the logical inconsistency of the nihilitic approach.
Without the darkness, how can you ever see and appreciate the light?
So my interpretation of the English language is 100% the same as yours? If that were true, then why don't I think or feel the same way you do? Why do we seem to have such a major difference when we speak and think in the same language? Why does it seem like my personality and your personality are different? If our minds and thoughts are really the result of a matter interacting with itself and chemical reactions, why is there this huge divivde between us? Shouldn't we all think and feel in a very similar way to one another? Why is there so much difference?
>rod of hermes
>americuckold medical school """education"""
Kill yourself McMongrels
We could live in paradise, instead we bicker and fight.
Your pretense is flawed. God doesn't exist. Evolution exists. Life isn't fair and neither is nature, but at least we get to experience this insane thing called reality, consciousness, and existence. Calling me a fedora isn't a counter argument.
subjective yes I don't pretend to have the correct way, it's simply the way I see it. Nothing puts my view over your views. Nietzsche was against nilihism he gets attributed that because his writings are perfect for edgy teenagers and baby philosopher teachers to take out of context.
I am in fact in a ironic twist for the maintaining of the morals of society as be it edgy or not these are useful "tools" "morals" whatever people refer to them as. For the control of a stable society I don't believe the "ignorant" masses of people easily corrupted by the media or over sources should have the right to vote which Jewish person rules them. As the "ubermenschs" would hopefully be the ones ruling over them.
Maybe I am in fact the pawn I cant know that's just my outlook. I'm aware I'm probably coming off as the most pretentious possible edgy cunt of a person right now but we're discussing philosophy, and in real life I'm honestly a pretty average person with conservative values
>OP posts Based Cleep
>Then talks about the Christo-mythology.
Dude, just accept that the -gods- hate us because they're miserable cunts.
Except based Cleep.
Cause Cleep is on our side.
His dad is a bit of a self righteous cunt though
what a disgusting human creature you are... can you stop vomiting your ego idiot ?
This is the only correct post on this board right now, maybe even the entire site.
>I'm aware I'm probably coming off as the most pretentious possible edgy cunt
I didn't see it that way at all. I asked you a question about what you believe and you gave an honest answer. We can end it now. I've another (you) to reply to.
Our ancestors (Ancient Romans/Greeks) were civilized and their deities were fucking assholes.
Why does everyone pretend our current, supposedly superior, morality came from some desert Jew religion?
But I crucified my ego long ago. Why don't you try to explain your issue with an argument rather than insults. It might be helpful in clearing up whatever misunderstanding you have.
lmao
bringing out muh evolution in a debate on a slightly reworded "problem of evil" dilemma.
more proof the humankind is a cancer a danger species to other species , i mean you have all of that you mention yet "we are" the opposite of all of that.
face it humans represent danger and mortality...
nothing is perfect, so he already has an answer to what is perfect.
because you people with your pseudo bullshit make words a reality... well your words are not my reality i dont identify at all , i think you are 100% wrong and outdated.
So explain in your words what is right and indate
Why does it have to be either perfect or completely different in your view? Our internal world is not a perfect representation, but it is good enough from a functional view. We are neither the same or completely different, but approxmately relatable with common experiences.
good and evil doesn't exist, it's a human concept that ends when our being does. Do you think fungi or bacteria ponder if they're living a life worth living?
Because suffering makes us strong.
Although some may crack, and more shall warp, true steel cannot be forged without flame.
>Why does it have to be either perfect or completely different in your view?
Would you know equality without difference?
Either we are equal or we are different. Those are the only two options.
dont compare things, there is intentional negative emotion...
if you do bad things intentionally to another being to the point of own existence in danger , that is negative or not?
If i intentionally stab you in the face is it positive is it good action ?
Because of your original sin (what you truly are on the inside)
It's all apart of the cycle of life. We just have complex brains so we think about it more in depth. Ultimately it's no different from one group of ants fighting another group of ants.
With a large variation in the non perfect category from almost perfect to nothing alike. You emphasise on two options is not representative of the reality.
When times were hard (poverty, illness, short life expectancy, manual labor until you dropped dead, etc) many people thought that what they experienced on earth was just the short time they had to go through before they could experience "the real life" after death.
Entropy.