Do people actually support a flat tax?

Can't you see that would benefit that absolutely wealthiest who can pay more taxes anyway while fucking over everybody else?

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washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/05/americas-taxes-are-the-most-progressive-in-the-world-its-government-is-among-the-least/?utm_term=.84bd67441183
archive.org/details/TheGulagArchipelago-Threevolumes
youtube.com/watch?v=S6HEH23W_bM
youtube.com/watch?v=DyqUw0WYwoc
youtube.com/watch?v=peVLkW7uirI
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We can't tax the rich because they would leave for a lower tax country.

Flat tax at 0%, end the IRS.

which has never happened

a few do - but most have to stay because they make their wealth here...

so, nope, not a good argument

who cares, and who the fuck are you to decide who has too much money

>rich don't pay 14%/year
>NO NO DON'T MAKE US ALL PAY 15% IT'D BE HORRIBLE!

it's actually happened in your country

wheres the original?

and all public services, and all social cohesion. welcome to anarchy and mass death.

does anyone really believe that would work out well?

I think a distinction needs to be made between the Upper class and the Hyper rich

as I say - very few.

and a decent international effort to sort out tax havens would stop that...

Why does the dems pander to the middle class?
There isn't many people that really are middle unless u count government employees.

As long as companies pay the same rate, I'm all for it. 15% across the board for all income.

It happened in your country Pierre

Tax brackets promote the ability of a majority of citizens to vote for more benefits for themselves while forcing a minority of citizens to pay for them. This is highly unethical and a conflict of interest.

>We can't tax the rich because they would leave for a lower tax country.
Yes we can. Destination based cash flow tax captures all spending in a country.

It works like this
"all revenues in a region" - "all costs in a region" = tax burden.

So if you make $5,000,000 in the US, and spend $2,000,000 in Mexico, your US tax burden is $5,000,000.

If you make $5,000,000 in the US, and spend $2,000,000 in the US, your tax burden in $3,000,000.

Why is this better than the current system?
1. because it's simple
2. because it eliminated tax arbitrage and the incentive to offshore for tax purposes
3. because it actually incentives investing in the communities where your products are sold
4. because it CAN'T BE CHEATED.

And you know the best part?

This theory has been around for 40 fucking years, and the elites will never allow it to be implemented or even experimented with.

as I said twice - very few left the country. You really think that all the millionaires will up and leave their entire lives, families, businesses and comfortable social positions if they only get $50,000 dollars a day instead of $55,000 a day?

sociopaths are welcome to get out of my country.

That doesn't happen, it's overstated.
Ok, but why does that matter for this? Different proposed tax brackets for them?

Flat tax is the only fair tax. The rich get taxed at the same RATE as the poor, meaning if they make 100x more, they pay 100x more taxes. There is no way in hell anyone can argue that a flat tax isn't fair.

>tax burden
Should have been taxable income.

that picture makes no sense.

a flat tax is better for the middle class because as it stands right now the tax distribution is roughly a bell curve with the hump at rhe middle class.

>implying voluntary transactions won't provide better services for less and more social cohesion

it would work out in countries where niggers, muslims and neets virtually don't exist, in other words, not France

Flat tax is is best tax.
Anyone who doesn't agree is a dirty commie and should be shot.

They pander to the lower class for votes. Black communities have been voting Democrat for 60 years and they're all still poor.

>it never happened
>it only happened a little bit

No it isn't, the US tax system is extremely progressive and the rich pay a very outsized proportion of it.

washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/05/americas-taxes-are-the-most-progressive-in-the-world-its-government-is-among-the-least/?utm_term=.84bd67441183

A flat tax is only fair for everyone. Also most people who believe in a low flat tax usually believe getting rid of most of the deductions as well.

Taxation is theft, let people vote with their money instead.

>There is no way in hell anyone can argue that a flat tax isn't fair.

unless they understand marginal returns in economics.

taking $15 off a man who has only $100 a week to live on is not the same burden as taking $150 off a man who has $1000.

and given that a man only has so many hours a week of labor to give, and the well paid rely on the poorly paid to service their social system and maintain their lifestyle, if you want a differential payment system you need to have a differential taxation system.

I'll go for a flat tax when we have a flat income rate - everyone paid the same, all taxed the same - but when one person is paid a million for doing a forty hour week and another gets less than $200 there is something unfair there.

>the rich would leave

oh no

pls

stop

do not

>and all public services, and all social cohesion.
Those all ended when the Left and Neoliberals decided to import foreigners en masse.
>welcome to anarchy and mass death.
"Times have changed and we should learn to live with terrorism." - Manuel Valls.

Flat tax is the only fair tax. Poor people are only poor because they can't handle finances. Nobody should pay for parasites. Socialists are scum.

At a certain point you don't need any skill or talen to perpetuate your wealth. If you have enough money (say you're born into a wealthy family) You can hire the best accountants and the best investors to make sure you're always making money whilst never actually working hard or contributing towards any important decisions . These people are like what you imagine Welfare recipients to be like only 1,000,000 times more entitled and whiny, literally. In summary ''Fuck em''.

you should build another wall to keep them in

>>implying voluntary transactions won't provide better services for less and more social cohesion

yep. You are absolutely right there, they won't.

anyone who thinks that we can live in a voluntary anarchy and everyone will be looked after who needs care is just kidding themselves. it will be greed and guile that win, and the generous and the less sneaky who starve.

human nature.

free markets are a fairytale spun by the rich to fool the poor into thinking they might get rich too - but they won't

Oh yeah your system of GIMME YOUR MONEY NIGGER has turned out great everywhere it was applied. Whoops, another communist superstate popped up, I wonder why the ability to STEAL MONEY LEGALLY attracts BAD PEOPLE. Could it be that saying MY IDEA IS THE BEST and using guns instead of arguments to get the money for your ideas means you don't get feedback on why your ideas are bad?

Read these accounts of how the Soviet Union operated:
archive.org/details/TheGulagArchipelago-Threevolumes

>taking $15 off a man who has only $100 a week to live on is not the same burden as taking $150 off a man who has $1000.

The man making $100 a week also receives just as much, if not more, government benefits as the man making $1,000, or in other words the latter is subsidizing the former even under a flat tax.

Of course it would. But it's probably better to keep police and military but nothing else.

and not in any country in the real world. so thanks for agreeing with me that it is a silly idea and totally impractical.

One step ahead of you comrade.

>Can't you see that would benefit that absolutely wealthiest who can pay more taxes anyway while fucking over everybody else?

And this is a bad thing...why?

GTFO commie

All your rich people "live" in the Netherlands there buddy.

Actually this would help the middle class because once we start making more money of the course of our career lives (which everyone should) our income tax rate won't increase in tandem such that we are unable to make any real progress. Which is the real issue.

>joe: "Yay I just got promoted and now I make more money"

>Parasites: " Oh? So you can give me more of it then? Good!"

>Joe: "hey wait if you do that then my net income for the year hasn't changed at all!"

>Parasites: "Omg stop being so greedy! Jamal needs free stuff! Plus it's not our fault blame the rich!"

It's none of your business what they do with their money. So fuck you.

ok give me figures - how many left France - you are making big claims here - back it up.

In an autarky, people will still be inclined to make more money up until a certain tax rate, which I believe is at the hump of a standard Laffer curve. Many economists put this rate at ~72-75%. We are not, however, in an autarky, and if our average tax rates are higher than the global average at an income level, we will experience capital outflows

>45% effective

Because treating all people equally under the tax law just doesn't make sense, amirite?

>Thu

Stop fucking worrying about what taxes do to people who pay more of it in a year than you will in a lifetime. 40% of this country doesn't pay any, it's not the upper 40 that's for sure.

Because all men are equal and deserve the same economic freedoms.

3% sales tax

That's all, no property no income just sales

Fuck off to reddit you dumb cunt. You might think that durr the rich are ebul but they are the ones who keep your shitty starbucks addled lifestyle possible.

and how do we pay for courts to settle disputes?

what if a person has a need but no money? does that count at all? or is it the freedom to starve that you favour?

How would that benefit he rich? I thought they effectively paid $0 due to loop holes, which a flat tax would theoretically fix?

Also, can you give me a good argument as to why the wealthy should pay a higher proportion of their income in taxes than everyone else that doesn't boil down to pure pettiness? If everyone paid, say, 20% in taxes the rich are still going to he contributing way more actual dollars than middle class and poor people

>Different proposed tax brackets for them?
Yeah, let them pay the 39.5% rate, close the loopholes and lower taxes for people making $250k - $1mil/yr

Why the fuck should a doctor pay 40% of his income when some hedge-fund lackey can skate by on 15%?

>Implying that is economic freedom
Come on...

yes goyim, don't tax the (((bankers))), your economy depends on their essential productive labor, can't have them going elsewhere!

>that can benefit the absolutely wealthiest
You do know those absolutely wealthiest are also the ones who park the vast majority of tax revenue in the government's pockets, right?

What are you going to tell us now, that women earn 77 cents for every dollar a man makes?

>all men are equal
>and deserve
Prove it.

>equity communist
top kek. I'll make the obvious points and stop because there's no point in arguing with a communist. The man who makes $1000 and pays $150 is losing just as much a percentage of his productivity as the man who makes $100. If anything, it's worse for the rich man because his money has a higher multiplier.

>beyond a certain amount of property you're immoral
as opposed to the poor man relying on the government to loot the rich man, right?

>price system and the ability to say no are bad
communists are the worst. go lounge on your pile of bodies

It's not theirs though, their family privatized things like farmlands or factories and charged the workers a percentage of everything they produced to work there. They're stealing and they're contributing nothing.

you think that the influx of jihadists has anything to do with a flat tax?

and you might have noticed that the people coming to europe are being imported - they travel on their own. Ok we could just shoot them or drown them or gas them, or in other ways act like barbarians, but... please, kill yourself, and save the world from your evil

you can't even fathom that you're the sociopath in this equation, lmao

> How would that benefit he rich? I thought they effectively paid $0 due to loop holes, which a flat tax would theoretically fix?
No that's a fucking meme spread by retarded college-tier Leftists thinking they know everything, the rich pay overwhelmingly more taxes than everybody else.

MARGINAL UTILITY OF INCOME

a poor person's 15% is worth more to them than a rich person's 15%, despite having a lower value.

>private property doesn't exist
In the GULAG you go.

You fucking idiot, women DO earn 70cents for every 1dollar a man makes.
The man is only left with 30, sexist.

>which has never happened
Odd for you to say that, businesses abandoned France because of over-regulation and punitive union rights, immense taxes, average people left because of immense property taxes, income tax is where it is now...

Also, if you didn't know, the rich didn't actually leave the US, but the reason why every major American company has an European office is for revenue withholding, away from the IRS. Think pharma in Germany and Ireland as an example.
For normal people, the Caribbean offshore tax havens survive in vast majority thanks to Americans

You are retarded and autistic here a paradox do demonstrate to you why :
youtube.com/watch?v=S6HEH23W_bM

Wait...do people support any kind of income tax? Taxation is theft

>Can't you see that would benefit that absolutely wealthiest who can pay more taxes anyway while fucking over everybody else?

how ?

10-15% flat tax would mean everyone pay a fixed percent of their income in tax with no artificial spikes and dips based on arbitrary conditions

it is actually fair instead of what your liberals understand that word to mean - fuck over the competent and feed the inept

>Warren Buffett pays an 8% tax rate

you are rich aren't you? you have never had to face the choice between food and heating bills? you have never had a boss who wants you do another shift for no pay because you have hit the legal limit for working that week but he needs you to carry on. he promises you time off in lieu, and will fire you if you don't do it. but all that means is that some day he gets to not pay you, when it suits him.

you ever had your rent put up? had your electricity bill rocket? get your working hours cut, and your pay fall twenty percent overnight? you have any idea what the reality is for most working people.

fuck off you patronising know nothing

Removes artificial government pressure driving wages up or down depending on what tax bracket you're in.

Frees up capital for reinvestment, consumption, or saving at the discretion of the rightful owners of said capital.

A flat 15% tax rate on each dollar earned after $30k for individuals and $45k for households would constitute a tax break for literally everyone in the country.

Only leftist scum will complain about muh decreased revenue how to pay for muh programs..

>beyond a certain amount of property you're immoral
Strawman. What I said is that was that these people were able to continue acquiring property without actually working for it. There in lies the moral fault. Getting rich off the work of others I'm sure we can agree is questionable.

Our flat tax rate is fucking 20%. If I were earning min wage, I'd just go on the dole.

95% exit tax would stop that

flat out wrong. If anything, the rich man's 15% is more valuable (it's from a greater sum) and it has a greater multiplier.

Hmm doesn't sound like socialism is working so well for you as it stands. I guess the solution is to pile more socialism and government control on top of everything.

>and how do we pay for courts to settle disputes?
Do you want laws to be upheld? Why not subscription based donations? If the law fucks you like they do in divorce courts, you stop donating. It's better to have no laws than to have oppressive laws.

>what if a person has a need but no money? does that count at all? or is it the freedom to starve that you favour?
In a taxes free society, the middle class makes enough excess money to decide what they want to support by themselves. Is this person nice, does this person have friends and family willing to support financially? Or are we talking about some sort of hypothetical asshole who has no friends and their families don't want to have anything to do with these people? How does this benefit society again?

Are you suggesting that if you NEED something, you get to use FORCE to take it from others? I'm hungry, I have a gun, give me your sandwich bitch. I thought you liked laws? Shouldn't laws be based on principles? If you think rape is wrong, should the government be allowed to rape people or sanction rape? If you think theft is wrong, should the government be allowed to steal or sanction stealing?

On massive government power:
youtube.com/watch?v=DyqUw0WYwoc

On healthcare as it is pretty indicative of these issues and how they work in reality:
youtube.com/watch?v=peVLkW7uirI
youtube.com/watch?v=m4Y8vGuBkrk

Collectivism:
youtube.com/watch?v=W-8g5S0z5Y4

France doesn't have education? Maybe you just pissed your time away?

If you can afford a roof over your head and food, there is no reason why you can't get the education you need to get a decent job. Go to the library for free (paid for by the rich people you despise) and learn programming. You're just fucking lazy.

Do you not pay taxes? The higher tax rate only applies to income at or above that level, there is never an incentive to stop working.

Fucking rural and suburban retards

Thank the massive corporate tax rate for that.

I hope Trump hasn't discarded the idea of slashing the corporate tax rate and repatriating all that wealth...

And these people that make the most money tend to be the most productive people, excluding thieves like bankers and other government approved criminals. So where is this money taken from them going to end up? In the hands of people who will buy their goods and services. They're effectively paying themselves for their own productivity, which is slavery since they're working for free through threat of force.

Taxation shouldn't exist.
At least the mafia mostly leaves you alone when you pay your protection money. That's not enough for the government, apparently--they have to threaten you with arbitrary rules and spy on you as well.

why do you equate the necessary requirements for a civil society, paid for by all, so no freeloaders, with an equitable taxation system, with communism?

your unrealistic idealist extremism is neither plausible not convincing.

in no society has charity and unregulated greed been sufficient.

it is however the ideology of BAD PEOPLE - greedy fucks who do not care about other human beings and are prepared to kill, or let die, just so they get to have bigger piles of printed paper.

sociopaths.

Just STFU and admit you have no idea what marginal utility is.

>parents bust their balls to generate wealth
>voluntarily give it to their kids when they die
>kids invest it and live off the profit off their investment decisions
>somehow this is something for nothing and making money off other people's work

The only progressive tax that is fair is the deduction kind, and the only welfare that is fair is the negative income tax with increased deductions for dependants.

Would you rather live in a society that treats people equally or one that treats some people as more important than others? There is no universal law that says we have to, it's just what most people preffer, we like when things are fair we don't like when things are unfair. I'm sure you'd prefer an ice cream to a punch in the dick, it's not a law, there's no proof this will always be the case but it's a pretty good guess based on human nature.

Why do you like double taxation?

And how much money does he then pump back into the economy through investments and owning/creating businesses?

>taking $15 off a man who has only $100 a week to live on is not the same burden as taking $150 off a man who has $1000.
Of course not, it is 10 times less.
Normally it shouldn't be anybody's business how much one earns. All should be taxed equally. But I admit that wouldn't be fair, so taking a percent of the income is much more desirable. This way, even if I take a lot more from the person who makes more money and I put my nose in others' affairs, to ask them how much they make, I do it for social justice and I still have a logical basis. Progressive taxing would set the threshold arbitrarily and would affect the very substance of property for richer people.
>I'll go for a flat tax when we have a flat income rate - everyone paid the same, all taxed the same - but when one person is paid a million for doing a forty hour week and another gets less than $200 there is something unfair there.
The number of hours per week isn't necessarily the criterion for how much one gets paid. The general criterion is that you get paid as much as your labour is needed. Some decide to consent on dividing it by hour and keeping it stable, others don't. You can't tell people how to give their money/ work and to/for whom.

the man on a $100 only gets benefits if given them - the flat taxers (and especially the 0% taxers) want to cut all benefits.

all benefit equally from a decent education system, a roads and infrastructure system, a universal health care system, and a social security net that limits the potential for mass mob uprisings of hungry poor who are being fucked over by the rich

>I can't refute his argument so I'll say he doesn't understand me
Literally have a degree in economics from a Canadian marxist university. Try again.

That isn't what you see at all though. That's just not how the current tax system is structured. Get educated you dumbass

>Reddit spacing
>Most cucked euro nation out there
>Calling people sociopaths in a discussion about tax rates
>Thinks that society has necessary requirements that the government must pay for.

If they were so fucking necessary people would labor to make the capital to pay for those things themselves.

Get fucked frog.

I support a flat tax the 25 25 tax plan I'd call it.

First 25k of your income is tax free everyone gets it.
If you made 25k congrats you pay NO taxes.

After that regardless if it's from stock investments, the lottery, inherited or just wages your taxed at 25% no deductions.

If you have the money today that you didn't yesterday youre taxed at 25%

I would shut down Medicaid, and VA hospital system and have adopt a single payer healthcare system. Have it run privately much like Germany, Japan or France

Honestly it may be as high as 30% but as low as 20%

Tax evasion would have a maditory life sentence and the fine would be 1000% of the amount you cheated on.

If a company is caught doing it the executives and board members face life in prison, and shareholder wiped out.

You're right. Everyo e should start off at square one. Someone who worked really hard to earn millions of dollars for his family shouldn't be allowed to pass that money on when he dies. It's disgusting!