Conservicucks and Amerisharts will defend this

>Conservicucks and Amerisharts will defend this

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In a single-player system, do doctors and nurses basically become government employees?

They'd make a shitton less if we switched to that system, no?

While the receipt might show hyper inflated prices due to collusion between providers, insurance companies, and the government, in reality a patient ends up paying only a fraction of that price. Welcome to reality

Yup, that's the bill
and pre obamacare that would have cost me personally $40 a day and the insurance company paid the rest

Only civilized countries (marked Green) may participate in this discussion.

Yes and the out of pocket maximum for most people is about $3,000 a year.

They make twice as much as you do

if you pay with cash you'll end up paying 1/4th of that.

My experience.

Big issue like scoliosis. The uk paid around 1 million to fix, completely free. This happened to my sibling.

Small issue like broken foot. They refuse to x-ray to due cost and they get bonus for less xraying.

Got a cold? Enjoy the 2 week waiting list.


The US is amazing, puts everything to shame, if you have insurance otherwise you're fucked.

Ok then, to save money, let's just get rid of the X-Ray and CT scans and just guess what the fucking disease is.

We don't have a "privatized" medical system. Billing is set by medicare. We have a system where the pricing is still by a socialized system, but only certain people qualify for it. Our system is literally the worst aspects of both private and socialized economy rolled into one.

Why is this a problem? Are you so fucking poor you can't even afford to go to the hospital? lol fucking poor fags, $55k isn't even a drop in the bucket for me.

>Venezuela
>"We'll hit you with our police vehicles, then give you free healthcare."
>Civilized

Yeah, prices have skyrocketed for a very simple function of ACA.

Insurance providers / health providers are restricted to making no more than 20% profit of the charge.

So, the insurance company WANTS higher bills, because they make a percentage. In a free market, they would be against this since high costs would translate into high premiums.

Since people at 1) required to purchase ACA and 2) most plans are heavily subsidized, they have much less pressure on them for premium costs.

I was paying $115 a month for health care In 07. Now I'm paying $850 a month.

Also instead of a private room, you a barracks like bed, you need to pressure most doctors and nurses to fucking do things because they're trying to cut cost.

>Remove federal student aid
>Completely privatize healthcare
>Medical school becomes 1000 times cheaper overnight
>Medical practicioner salaries lower across the board
>Savings are passed onto insurers, which are passed onto patients
>Lower income taxes to zero because they're now unnecessary
>Doctors get paid same as before anyway

lol I know right, I make that in a week.
Other countries are poor

orrrrr, skip all of that, lower physician salaries, then zero income taxes only to doctors.

Medicaid/care makes nurses and doctors part government employees anyway.

>he thinks 55k a week is a lot
you are a poorfag degenerate like the rest of them

What most people don't understand is that the pricing is set by medicare. We don't have "free market" medical system here, where pricing would be set by supply and demand. We have a system where the prices are set by a cabal made up of government bureaucrats and insurance executives.

yes pretty much a doctor starts at £22,000 i think and consultant level is 75,000-103000 which takes about 7 ish years to get to. So its a large paycut in comparison to the salaries offered in the US

...

I can't fucking understand how the richest country that ever existed in this planet has problems with fucking healthcare

...

You can't just lower salaries without there being a reason to lower salaries. If the value (cost) of getting a degree in the medical field falls, then the field itself is worth less and more people can do it, increasing the labor supply and driving down wages, which drives down costs. Granted, this is bad for doctors, but they should support it anyway because the hippocratic oath means they'll be able to treat people without bankrupting them and I doubt it will flood the labor market in the same way that the blue collar field does due to requiring at least eight years of secondary education. It's a very high skill field

I thought circle jerking was a reddit thing.

That's for the bottom 15% of people covered by Medicare. I'm a free market libertarian, and even I think that the price control system of Medicare is better than what is going on with ACA.

Living in the UK, I'd prefer the torries NHS over our ACA markets here.

My dream scenario is something like Switzerland, since it doesn't disrupt our existing health care providers. The HHS Secretary advocated for it on Tucker a month or two ago. Unfortunately it probably flew over peoples heads.

Another neat idea is Universal Catastrophic Care.

>Botswana

How?

*Having lived in the UK

> USA
> Rich

> the prices are set by a cabal made up of government bureaucrats and insurance executives.

Replace 'government bureaucrats' with 'multinational corporations' and that's what the meme of 'free markets' will do as well. Health care will always be in huge demand, no business will intentionally make less money when it knows it can put prices sky high and still have a market for it. The same thing will happen except with a monopoly of huge multinationals.

>being a doctor would be paid less than blue collar
Our premeds have so much ego they would riot at such a prospect, and they aren't even doctors yet

>That's for the bottom 15% of people covered by Medicare
No, those prices set the rate for everyone.

>Pro-tip: Don't pay it. Suffer no consequences.

Yeah, I don't necessarily support "free market," but it's a straw man anyway.

This too. I know people with thousands in medical bills they have never paid.

Has your coverage gone down with the increase in price? A lot of ppl are reporting that as well

>Russia.
>Need a series of kinda complex heart surgeries.
>Either wait in line for about 6 months if it's not urgent or pay up $5-10k total.
>Agree to wait, get the surgeries for free, the doctors are ok, the equipment and the hospital are fine.

It's St.-Petersburg, though - one of the two decent cities in Russia (the other one is Moscow). If you're outside those two cities, you're probably seriously fucked.

The idea to turn healthcare into a business on a national level and provide a wild capitalism environment for it is really, really fucked up. Cruel and as stupid as privatizing street lighting, police, prisons or railroads (oh, wait...)

Of course it's defendable
Free health care isn't a right.

If you don't have a career, you don't deserve a good insurance plan

Yes and no.

NHS hospitals are run by their own NHS trusts, which basically function like a publicly owned corporation. These are independent organisations, but they all report back to the department of health. Smaller services like GPs and dentists operate their clinics as private companies and are paid by the NHS for every NHS-eligible patient they treat.

It's actually considerably more complicated than that since there are multiple different types of trust, but that's the basic structure. So if a doctor works in a hospital he's essentially a government employee, if he works as a GP he's probably self-employed.

>Got a cold? Enjoy the 2 week waiting list.
Firstly, if you have a cold then you shouldn't be going to see the doctor in the first place. Secondly it's a myth that everyday service like waiting to see a GP has a long waiting list. I've had to see my GP several times in the last few months and I usually got an appointment on the same day I called, or the day after.

>Small issue like broken foot. They refuse to x-ray to due cost and they get bonus for less xraying.
I don't know if you're citing a specific example, but if you were denied an x-ray it was probably simply because the doctor didn't think it was medically necessary. There are no financial bonuses for doctors for referring fewer people for x-rays or other treatments. If the hospital was having financial difficulties you would have been put on a long waiting list, the doctor wouldn't have just sent you home with a broken foot.

Makes me wonder, if you had a paid off house and were otherwise self sufficient, what could they even do to you if they were to come after you for unpaid bills?

The most I've ever had to pay was $5 for a 3 month prescription of medication any the longest I've waited for non emergency care was 8 hours.

>america

not even fucking once

>Firstly, if you have a cold then you shouldn't be going to see the doctor in the first place.

You do realize this is the chief problem with American healthcare, yeah? What happens to hospital wait times, operating costs and overhead costs when you have millions of poor urban dwellers who go to the ER instead of a clinic or doctor's office? What happens when you have tens of millions of illegals who solely utilize hospital ER's for their healthcare needs?

What's really pathetic is that a lot of them probably think that's just the place you go when you have any type of health problem and have never been to a regular doctor.

They still take your house

how?

I don't care what somebody else's bill is.

>Semi private room and bed charges: 15,336.84

Haha this fucking country

>be genelet
>go to the hospital

only a matter of time you are a genelet desu

$10k lab charges and $7k diagnostic x-ray charges, there's your jew right there.

This is why canadians come down to the US for medical care. The doctors up there don't want to do shit because they don't get paid.

That might account for long ER wait times, but the healthcare system is a vast structure of which ERs are only a small part. Saying that the main problem with the American healthcare system is the overuse of ERs seems extremely simplistic.

Let's be honest, everyone knows what the main problem with the US healthcare system is: its utterly retarded mish-mash of private insurance and state regulation.

Just switch to state-run healthcare, guys. It's so much fucking simpler. Seriously, aren't you tired of having this argument? It works, and the people saying it doesn't are the ones with an ideological axe to grind. It works fine for literally every other first world nation. Why is Venezuela a good example of why socialist economic management doesn't work, but Canada/UK/Germany/France/etc, etc don't count as examples of why socialist healthcare management does?

I think $2500 a night for a hotel room you have to share with some other random jackass is a little more jew than that.

>doesn't have health insurance
>has to be admitted to the hospital
>acts surprised when the bill is large

really gets the neurons pumping

Yeah but insurance will pay for like $50k of that, so yeah

At least it's six nights actually getting treated rather than 6 nights in the waiting room.

>thinking anyone on Sup Forums isn't a multi-millionaire

>US gov meddles with the medical and farmaceutical industry to the point where insurance is almost mandatory
>surprised when the medical and farmaceutical companies charge exhorbitant ammounts of money which insurance will be obligued to pay
Woah

$5 for a 3 month prescription, another useless NEET fronting up to the chemist with the vaunted "health-care@ card because the cunt is too useless to get a job.

>That might account for long ER wait times, but the healthcare system is a vast structure of which ERs are only a small part. Saying that the main problem with the American healthcare system is the overuse of ERs seems extremely simplistic.

Did reading comprehension suddenly drop in Britain? This is hands down one of the dumbest responses I've read in my life.

>Let's be honest, everyone knows what the main problem with the US healthcare system is: its utterly retarded mish-mash of private insurance and state regulation.

This is definitely a problem, specifically attributable to Obama, but its not the main problem.

>Seriously, aren't you tired of having this argument? It works, and the people saying it doesn't are the ones with an ideological axe to grind. It works fine for literally every other first world nation.

Is this why so many Canadians come to the US for their healthcare needs? Or why so many Euros and Asians come to the US for surgery and treatment?

>jews are awful greedy fucks and we need to get rid of them however we can
>no, single payer or socialized healthcare is shit and it's just want dr shekelstein wants us to do because ???

My friend wants source

>no insurance
>was hospitalized for about a month
>daily blood tests,etc until they found out what i had
>got treated for it (although it turned out it's a long-term illness so shit sucks desu)
>monthly check-ups and prescriptions for my meds
And the only thing i had to "pay" for was a bit of blood i needed (all i had to do was annoy a couple of friends/family to go and give some blood),thanks Germany.

Have you ever tried not getting sick? Just take care of yourselves you lazy selfish fucks, hospitals cover emergencies at cost.

>b-but muh shit genes

So? Thirty years ago you would be fucking dead, modern medicine LITERALLY makes miracles happen every fucking day, do you realize how fucking amazing it is to get a PET scan? Do you realize how complicated it is to make IVIG? FUCKING COMPLICATED

HAVE SOME FUCKING APPRECIATION FOR YOUR GOOD FORTUNE TO EVEN HAVE THE CHANCE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THIS SHIT AT ALL

Nope, I work full-time. How much do you pay for medicine?

>doctor starts at £22k

Stop telling blatant lies to support your worldview. A pharmacology graduate will make that in the first year of work.

Its not a miracle, we know how it works.

>So? Thirty years ago you would be fucking dead, modern medicine LITERALLY makes miracles happen every fucking day, do you realize how fucking amazing it is to get a PET scan? Do you realize how complicated it is to make IVIG? FUCKING COMPLICATED
>HAVE SOME FUCKING APPRECIATION

Yes goyim! Praise your masters! Air and food are not free either! You should be lucky you have the privilege to slave away at work so you can eat the lowest quality produce we can mass produce!

All these BAD GOYIM in the thread who don't suck the cock of insurance providers should be shot!

Having been in German hospitals before, I know this is bullshit.

Nice bait though.

>heh, people in the past had it worse so you should be grateful about getting jewed because at least you have it better!

Guessing the Russians should have thanked the communists because they enjoyed better living standards than under the Tsars then eh?

>22k pounds
That's like... 200 american bucks?

In the US, you're considered a poorfag if you make 30k a year.

The Conservatives aren't trying to privatise the NHS.

This is a lefty myth. There is no evidence to support this claim.

I meant that we can afford to do this cause of Germany's money dude.

the charges for the diagnostic are ridiculous and it smacks of jewry right there.

Here in Australia every tax payer who earns over $30k AUD pays a 2% levy and taxpayers who earn above $75kAUD and who don't have private health insurance pay a further 1% levy. I've never had to pay for a visit to a GP or for diagnostic services such as CT scans etc. If you end up in hospital due to an emergency all you end up paying for once you leave are for any prescriptions that are given to you and are purchased at the chemist/pharmacy. Individuals requiring elective surgery have two choices, wait on a list for a public hospital, if your health insurance provides coverage they will cover the procedure in a private hospital or if you don't have private health insurance, you can pay the Specialist doctor, the private hospital etc for the procedure and avoid the waiting list. Last year I was quoted $5.5k AUD for a microfracture procedure on my left knee in a private hospital and it was a day procedure whuch included being under anaesthetic for the operation.....Australia is a fucking paradise.

>bbc.com/news/health-34475955

>Basic salary for junior doctors starts at about £23,000 but increases in the second year to about £28,000 (Pay for doctors - NHS Careers). For a doctor in specialist training, the basic salary is between £30,000 and £47,000.

>googles average czechoslovenian salary

What is a "health insurance"?

Hello secretary Hunt.

THEN DONT DO IT FUCKSTICK
DONT PLAY THE GAME
MAKE IT AT HOME YOURSELF IF ITS SO FUCKING SIMPLE

>This is hands down one of the dumbest responses I've read in my life.
No, what's dumb is thinking that you're waiting too long for cancer treatment because of the illegal in the ER with a cough.

>specifically attributable to Obama
This is mind-blowingly retarded. Are you actually trying to imply that US healthcare was working fine before Obama came along? Even if you're just saying that the state only got involved in healthcare under Obama you're amazingly wrong

>Is this why so many Canadians come to the US for their healthcare needs?
The number of foreigners who come to America for medical treatment is always vastly overstated by American conservatives looking to justify their failing health system. In reality, only 75k foreigners come to the US for treatment every year - compared to 750k Americans who travel abroad for care. Go up to the Canadian border sometime. You'll see a lot more Americans crossing the border to take advantage of Canada's healthcare system that you'll see Canadians coming to America (only 1% of Canadians who got treatment from a specialist in 2015 went abroad).

The main reasons that people come to the US for treatment is that there are more facilities that cater especially to the wealthy. Apart from that, America much bigger than Canada or any European nation, so it can support a more diverse array of specialists. I can tell you as a European that no one here aspires to go to the US for treatment when they get sick; the only reason you'd go abroad is if you had an incredibly rare disease which only had a couple of specialists in the world, or you wanted an experimental treatment that was being developed by a foreign-based team.

>basic salary
>basic salary
>1st year
>1st year

Guessing investment bankers don't earn much because they also start on about 20 something k a year then?

Doctors make like $60,000/year in Sweden after several years experience. It's fucking disgusting.

I sure as fuck don't want my surgery performed by a guy who rode the bus to work and has his mind on the fucking bills he can't afford this month.

dafuq, mine is $18k and I pay $400 a week for insurance.

That is training pay. An average GP earns 60-90k. Consultants 200k.

Why did you mark only the Muslim countries?

you pay 20 grand a year for insurance?

Yeah, good goy, keep caring about how much money I make instead of not having to sell your house every time you break a bone.

>15k dollarydoos for the room alone
Now that is bullshit.

Fucking spaghetti, learn to spell.

>in the past

Nigger im talking about stuff that has advanced by fucking lightyears in our own lifetimes, cancer treatments alone have made dozens of previously incurable death sentence cancers not only treatable but fucking completely cureable

Is that even possible in the UK though? From what i understand it can take upwards of a year to even get a diagnosis, the accuracy of which is dubious at best

U-S-A, U-S-A!

>I've had to see my GP several times in the last few months and I usually got an appointment on the same day I called, or the day after.
Lucky you, I've had to wait a week or two weeks to see my GP

ITT: Eurocucks waiting 4 months for the letter from the specialist to come in the mail and tell you they booked you for an appointment 3 months in the future.

In a libertarian society a Bronze McHealthcare™ subscription would only cost 0.00064 bitcoin a month

Yes, and before you ask I don't have any long term health problems like cancer, diabetes, or any auto-immune disorders. (unless you count some super mild eczema)

...

>

>>doctor starts at £22k
>Stop telling blatant lies

>Basic salary for junior doctors starts at about £23,000

>junior doctor
>starts at

>doctor starts
>start

>junior doctor starts
>doctor starts

>starts
>starts

>No, what's dumb is thinking that you're waiting too long for cancer treatment because of the illegal in the ER with a cough.

Its almost as if you're intentionally inflating similar, yet separate, issues in order to defend your failing argument.

>This is mind-blowingly retarded. Are you actually trying to imply that US healthcare was working fine before Obama came along? Even if you're just saying that the state only got involved in healthcare under Obama you're amazingly wrong

I didn't say the US healthcare system was perfect before the ACA, but the ACA has exacerbated existing issues and made it worse for 99% of the country.

>The number of foreigners who come to America for medical treatment is always vastly overstated by American conservatives looking to justify their failing health system. In reality, only 75k foreigners come to the US for treatment every year

"the United States is a leading destination for medical tourists—the third-most popular healthcare destination worldwide in 2012, with 800,000 international patients flying in to seek care, according to Patients Beyond Borders, an informational publisher for medical tourists."

>compared to 750k Americans who travel abroad for care.

This includes the number of Americans who live near the border of Canada & Mexico and travel across the border to fill prescriptions. Why? Because the ACA made importation and reimportation of most pharmaceutical drugs illegal.

Are you providing cover for someone else like a child or employee? Are you choosing to pay a higher price for better cover? Do you have any inherited genetic disorder that only presents in later life e.g. huntington's disease?