I am asking this as someone who is becoming disolusioned with the reformation and its values. Is the orthodox church as it is seen in the East really the church as it was set up by the apostles in the book of Acts?
Sources exist on Orthodoxy out there but it is all very confusing, would be obliged if any of you orthobros could help me out with sources.
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Why don't you just believe what the Bible says and leave it at that?
Read this and you'll understand.
"Orthodox Dogmatic Theology: The Experience of God, Vol. 1: Revelation and Knowledge of the Triune God" by Dumitru Staniloae
I do! But the dogmas of the church are important to, without them you get the enlightenment.
The reformation should have been a return to church roots and not something new.
Thanks!
Non-orthodox here but I've been having some of the same thoughts, user.
Here's what I've picked up so far:
1. Read the books and letters in the new testament in their entirety; too much context is lost when Protestant fundamentalists or Roman Catholics cherry pick passages to support their pet doctrines and practices. e.g. the Orthodox position on primacy but not supremacy of the Bishop of Rome becomes apparent when St. Paul and Peter are shown as equals in Acts, Galatians, etc.
2. Read the early Apostolic Fathers. These guys are often the direct successors of the Apostles and evangelists in the book of Acts. You'll notice some funny things Protestants never bring up, like infant baptism, real presence (of some kind) in the eucharist, church hierarchy, bishops, etc.,
Issues surrounding topics like predestination are treated as more of a mystery and approached carefully, as opposed to the hard-line positions of the Reform churches or Lutherans.
Or when combined with some other basic books on the history of the period things that Roman Catholics won't acknowledge, like the Bishop of Rome just being the "First among equals," and not some domineering overlord.
3. Read the Eusebius' history of the church, Gibbon's Roman Empire to provide some background. Also, there's Orthodox Bishop Timothy Ware's The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to Eastern Christianity. It will cover some of the same material but provide a history of the Orthodox church from their perspective.
Wish you the best, user. The church scene is a disaster these days. I hope you find the right place.
A lot of what you're talking about isn't mentioned in the Bible. Dogma, enlightenment, and orthodox aren't. Other examples are trinity and rapture. Yes, some of these concepts are discussed in the Bible, but usually not anywhere near how we use the words we invented since then.
I fully agree that the reformation should have been a return to church roots, but it at least got closer. People that know the scriptures know that even the righteous will scarcely be saved though, so I wouldn't worry about what the popular beliefs, dogma, or "culture" is in whatever is considered to be the "church" at the time. The real church are those who worship God in spirit and in truth. Just read your Bible and try to interject the least of your biases as possible and let it convict and change you instead.
Because not everything in the bible is a clear cut as we would like it to be and you need to provide context to certain passages. Take infant baptism for example. The case for or against is really pretty shaky. There are passages that seem to support and others that are more vague or even go in the opposite direction. That's where you read about the 2nd century leaders and find out that they practiced it, so in all likelihood, it was being practiced during the time of the new testament.
Just out of curiosity, since I've never heard arguments for it. What are your thoughts and biblical backings for it?
Also, I'm sure you've seen how even political atmospheres can entirely shift in less than a decade, so I don't really trust anything other than the Bible as anything other than a useful reference vs. the Bible which I see as the word of God.
At the time of the reformation it was closer, but look at places like the USA. The reform churches, presbyterians, true Anglicans, Lutherans have a very small presence compared to the rest of evangelical America. The country is dominated by baptists, methodists, and an odd assortment of nutty pentecostals and non-denominationalists, all of which have virtually nothing in common with the principles of the reformation except perhaps a general disdain for Roman Catholics and an extremists/ignorant understanding of what Sola Scriptura meant to people like Zwingli, Luther, or Tyndale.
The heritage that we're left with has ultimately, on the whole, probably drifted even further away from the true church.