Let's have a thread about Greece
I don't really know a lot about Greece's debt crisis or whose fault it really is. Eurosceptics and Greeks blame the EU and vice versa. Are the Greeks just incompetent, or are they being abused? Should Greece leave the Eurozone?
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>I don't really know a lot about Greece's debt crisis or whose fault it really is.
Imagine you walk into a bank, drop on your knees and start begging the manager to give you a small loan because you'll starve. Against all odds he does it. A year later, after you're supposedly on your feet, he asks you to start paying it back.
But you tell him to go fuck himself
We blame the EU on the outside but on the inside we blame ourselves. Many for example were working at the public sector, they were getting paid while chilling at the PC at work and drinking coffee and getting big ass salary.
Many people were employed in the public sector and paid good for no work so they would vote the same party at next elections. This happened for many years and the government had to take loans and loans to be able to pay the salary of like 40% of the country that worked in the public sector.
Pretty much Greece became half communist state but the difference was we had no production at all or anything, our only income is from tourists and again people provide services to tourists and don't declare their income so they don't get taxed, so basicly government had no income at all that's why all loans were needed.
Fast foward several years, old fucks get 3k euro pension here while young 20 year old people work for 500, the state can't pay these loans and when EU says for example lower the pensions of the old fucks people get mad and blame everything on EU. In reality, we did it to ourselves, EU had nothing to do with all of this.
Socialist country you mean
It's both.
The Greeks got tricked into thinking it was free gibs, and the EU was either dumb enough to not see it coming, or wanted to have a country shackled to them.
Both are at fault, but the EU fucked up royally trying to fix it through austerity
>austerity
How can Greece reduce its debt by increasing public spending? They at least have to do some corruption measures or limit its public sector before they get gibs relief
how is it that western civilzation originated in greece when every greek poster is a buttblasted retard?
It's like this except your still starving cause instead of using the loan to buy food you bought imported cars Instead
Turkish rapebabbies
Homo Sapiens originated in Kenya/Ethiopia.
Nough said.
> How can Greece reduce its debt by increasing public spending?
By increasing its GDP and taxable revenues through smart spending. Austerity/spending decreases if not implemented extremely well with the purpose of freeing up private capital which will be used are almost always terrible for an economy.
Greek anons,is the glden dawn a decent political party are just another meme tier neo nazis?
meme tier neo nazis
we have a similar situiation here in italy with the elder's pensions and youngs,but we ended in this situation for different reasons.
And the manager responds by giving you another loan to pay the first one back but you just buy food with it and tell him to go fuck himself again. And then the manager gives you a third loan.
>Many for example were working at the public sector, they were getting paid while chilling at the PC at work and drinking coffee and getting big ass salary.
>Many people were employed in the public sector and paid good for no work so they would vote the same party at next elections. This happened for many years and the government had to take loans and loans to be able to pay the salary of like 40% of the country that worked in the public sector.
>Pretty much Greece became half communist state but the difference was we had no production at all or anything, our only income is from tourists and again people provide services to tourists and don't declare their income so they don't get taxed, so basicly government had no income at all that's why all loans were needed.
>Fast foward several years, old fucks get 3k euro pension here while young 20 year old people work for 500, the state can't pay these loans and when EU says for example lower the pensions of the old fucks people get mad and blame everything on EU
This is basically how things are in Finland, too. I have no idea how we are still standing.
Pay debts
Because Finnish workers must be actually productive compared to Greek ones. That and even with a large public sector there's a difference between bullshit make-work jobs and ones that are actually productive. Just compare your GDP to Greece's, it's probably over double.
Well yes and no. The productivity in the private sector will outwork the leeching public sector. But it is always a question of time. We are on the same path, but as our debt / GDP (bullshit ratio) isn't as high, we are not there yet.
Is Finland's debt-GDP ratio even high or rising though? I'm pretty sure it's considered one of the only truly healthily sustainable states in the world. And much of your public spending is on things like infrastructure and healthcare, which are public goods which are smart and productive investments. I'm not completely sure what the country is like but I'm just guessing you aren't as spend-happy, as, say, Sweden in creating tons of meme-tier government non-jobs to employ people who otherwise wouldn't work.
Sadly sir, you are completely wrong.
Debt / GDP ratio is around 63%, held steady from 2015 to 2016, but the debt keeps growing. If one disregards the fact that debt is shit way of doing things in government level to start with, those ratios do not look so bad.
But: the spending is not done smartly. Most of the spending is in social issues: Budget this year is around 55billion euros. Out of that 19 billion is used for social costs (benefits and so on). In 2017, 5.6 billion will be added to the debt.
2015 and 2016 we had to add 2.3 billion euros to the debt, due to immigrant crisis.
So happy days.
Please kys
German and French banks have a debt even bigger than Greece, they just used the EU money to cover the holes of their own banks.
They are also responsible for what happened, specially their banks and politicians, but the Eu just used Greece as a scapegoat.
At least the third reich was romantic, this 4th reich is just a socialist shithole of corruption and lies.
No.
You know this small lenders everywhere in ads at the moment? Like credit24 or something.
If you go and take loan from them, can you solely blame them when you eventually do not pay it back and they start complaining?
What actually happened was: German and French politicians wanted to stay in power. How to stay in power? Create jobs and make people wealthier. Ok, how to do that? Well that Greece country just joined EU and we can now pay in euros = political risk is lowered considerably. How'bout we sell some guns to them?
Germany: -that sounds brilliant
France: -I am in
Delegation goes to Greece:
Delegation: -hey greeks, you have those turks around the corner and your weaponry sucks. Buy some from us!
Greeks: -I know I know, but I do not have any money
Delegation: -We make it happen in 100 easy payments!
Greeks: -Loving it, where do I sign
Now delegation goes back to Germany / France
Delegation: Ok banks, give money to the industry to make these guns. Greece will pay you back.
Banks: FUCK NO, they will be insolvent in two years
Delegation: No worries, we'll give you free money from the central bank if everything else fails.
Banks: Loving it! Take my money Greece.
(this wasn't completely accurate, but something like this happened)
Hey Greece you guys are pretty cool. Visited there last year, people are super nice and the ruins are great.
> German and French banks have a debt even bigger than Greece
> What is Debt-GDP ratio
at last discussions about greece.
>Are the Greeks just incompetent
socialism is a hell of a drug
>What is the Deutsche Bank debt?
If i remember correctly was 6 times the whole EU GDP
>unsung greek heroes
I;ll start
Isn't Deutsche Bank a private company? That's different than what we're talking about.
More like, imagine you have a shit credit score but one day you become flatmates with someone who has a perfect score, so you go to the bank and the manager overlooks your own credit score and lends you money based on your flatmate's at near zero interest. Then 6 years later the manager realizes you actually don't have the ability to pay all that back so he "adjusts" the interest rate to a more realistic level which is 3x more than what you were paying, now you definitely don't have the means to pay even next month's installment so you go up to your flatmate and ask if he can help you out and he says yes, but not at the cost of his own score so instead of paying some of the debt for you he instead gives you monopoly money to go pay the bank, and the manager says "ah that's better!" so he lowers your loan interest down to near zero again...
Pension amount is grossly overstated. My grandma gets 500
What are the social systems that drain money the most and are most abused
Greece is gay youtu.be
Papadopoulos did nothing wrong
Just watch this:
youtube.com
it's the same everywhere, even the ultra capitalist US has an overbloated public sector that the Democrats built over the years
for some reason (((they))) decided to cut funding to Greece and let it rot, so people here woke up to reality
GOLDMAN SACHS AND KIKES
>be german economic superpower
>dump your shit in greece
>your and the frogmans banks give loans to greece to pay for the stuff you dump in greece
>shit this is not sustainable
>if greece bails on the loans your and the frogmans banks are gone
>give loans to the greeks to pay the interests the greeks owe your and the frogmans banks
repeat
Greeks are incompetent, which is being abused by German led EU-coalition.
They should leave the Eurozone, but in the end it doesn't matter right now if they don't. Either way Eurozone will either brake up or become the base for EU-federation in the next 20y. (I think it is pretty obvious that it will break up).
Basically it's because of all the government spending over the last 50 years. Usually we go in a cycle of:
>new government
>promises reforms
>takes loans to fulfill promises
>ends up spending most of the money for personal luxuries
>in turn public projects all end up shit, malfunctional, and break down after a few years
>greece doesn't produce anything because the loans meant to stimulate the economy went to the pockets of politicians and private contractors
>the state is broke
>declare bankruptcy
>repeat
This has been going on literally since we declared the war for independance
For example, our first loan:
>200,000 British pounds loaned to us by the UK
>They tell us that 100,000 of it must be spent on 3 warships made by the UK to support the war effort
>2 of the ships never arrive
>The one that arrives is leaning to one side and is unusable
>The 100,000 pounds left are spent by British supporters to create a civil war so that we won't be under Russian influence
>Note that the civil war took place DURING the independence war
This cycle has been going on for 200 years, except this time if we go bankrupt the Euro will likely collapse as well, so Germany wants to keep the economy floating, but by increasing taxes instead of managing government spending they are killing the economy even further.
There are 3 sides responsible for the current situation. At order of responsibility:
>Greek politicians
>The EU
>The Greek Electorate
secretly hope they don't pay so you can claim their islands and beaches
straight out of (((IMF))) shock doctrine
you forgot about that hans
didn't you?
wonder why?
This guy tells it right also we got no production and a culture for corruption
Not true. The first Greek poster in this very thread has a very civilized and spot on analyzation of how they came into this.
This guy is legit.
We were not ready to enter the Eurozone when we did. Most of our population understands nothing about economics/finances or mid/long-term planning. There was a conspiracy WITH EVERYONE IN IT (Greece, Goldman Sachs, Germany etc) so that our financial books were faked and we could enter. Even with fake finances, some of our yearly budgets never went public on EU's website. Gee, I wonder why.
We faltered, Germany faltered, everyone faltered. That does not mean we have no potential or we are dumb or anything. But we were not ready, and everybody knew. We take it upon ourselves that we have to improve. But let it be clear that Germany was 100% in on what happened.
Believing banks are private is a nice bluepill.
Here in Spain some private banks crashed in 2007-2008 and the government bought them with our money, now that they are solvent again they are thinking again in making them private. (((private))).
They are private though, the gains they make and the ownership over them is private, the government just bails them out and covers the losses publicly in case of a fuckup. It's fucked up and fucks over everybody but banks and their owners, managers, etc., but it's a bankers' world.
Greeks can't into financial planning and have heavy corruption in their general culture.
They like to lie that only their politicians are like that but interaction with them proved otherwise.
Due to that, there are a lot of mistrust against the government and tax evasion is the national pastime for Greeks of all social classes.
That culture forced the government to borrow heavily from international lenders so they can stay in power and be popular during their term by handing out gibs, hoping to unload all the paying back bullshit to whoever retards that manage to defeat them in the election.
This have been going on for over more than half a century and unlike other countries, most of what Greek national debts aren't domestic, but international.
To clear their previous economic crisis and lira that worth less than Indian rupee, they join the EU and faked all their financial records in order to clear the requirements.
But their culture that bought their nation to its knees still have never change in the slightest.
And now, their culture still haven't changed at all.
I'm pretty sure that's not how economy works. Did you bother to check how much they bought weapons from Germany? I bet that is just a small side node, the big picture is something else. Look where they used most of the debt that was given to them.
I think you are confusing their balance sheet size to their debt. Their balance sheet is huge due to derivatives.
When we entered the Eurozone we could take loans very easily because it was kimfa implied that the dents were backed by Germany. The economy was also booming in the 2000-2007 period and banks Gabe away money easily. So when the global financial crisis hit the banks started actually looking at their stats and realized that we weren't credit worthy on our own. That's when SHTF.
I understand where you are coming from, but there is some data you are probably missing. All our fucking neighbors are ex-communist countries plus Turkey. We were the only country in the region that tried to follow western civilization, and we had no land border to it. Maybe this will help you understand our situation better.
You forgot the last step
>move greek debt owned by banks to the central bank
>ok now we are ready to take the hit if they don't comply we can just let them default
I agree with everything but your last statement. The EU had a lot to do with the current state of affairs. Just like
says EU bankers and bureaucrats knew well how corrupt Greece was and how we would never be able to pay back our loans yet they continued giving us more and more loans and having shady deals in the background like the Siemens scandal. And then they decided to impose severe austerity measures that killed our already small economy so they can bail their own EU banks. Yes we should have reduced the public sector and public funding but what our government and the eurocrats did was to increase the taxes so high that it killed a lot of businesses thus increasing unemployment and getting a huge brain drain problem. Also it's ironic that all these austerity measures actually increased tax evasion even more.
The worse bit about the Greek loans for me. Is that the original loans where from private banks and institutions. Who knew it was profitable but risky, but we're to big to allow to fail. So when problems did happen. The EU bought the debt with EU taxpayers money. Then loaned taxpayers money, they know they won't get back. Keeping Greece very much under EU control. The Troika, overruled the government.