What's the best, most just tax system?

Income tax (progressive/flat)? Property value tax? sales/consumption tax? Something else entirely? Some combination of them?

Other urls found in this thread:

bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-03-03/to-fight-inequality-tax-land
abc.net.au/news/story-streams/federal-budget-2017/2017-05-09/federal-budget-2017-infographic-data-sliced-diced/8492204#spending/breakdown/2018/other-purposes
youtube.com/watch?v=pAephT94SAY
youtube.com/watch?v=O6ayb02bwp0
slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/12/20/value_of_all_land_in_the_united_states.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Flat tax is the most just.

But if we did that, you'd see a massive tax cut for the rich and a massive tax hike for the poor.

But it'd be the fairest. No exemptions, everyone is taxed on their income let's say 10% (I just made that number up). Also religion is taxed too.

Actually the most fairest system was zero taxes for everyone. But if you're gonna tax, make it flat.

Consumption taxes only.

Simply because I believe that a person who travels to work by bike, maintains his house himself, has a few used solar cells for power, eats his veggies from his garden and otherwise doesn't consume much at all shouldn't pay much if anything in taxes, even if he is making millions from hedge fund investments.

Money is just a token which represents resources, in principle labour and land. If someone doesn't use his money to purchase anything, he isn't using up labour or land and thus shouldn't be taxed.

Consumption tax.
You pay for what you destroy.

I would say:
>Progressive income tax with a cap on 40%
>No property value tax
>Sales and consumption tax at 15%
>High taxes on alcohol and tobacco (especially if you have public healthcare)
>Inheritance tax on the 0.1% bracket to prevent massive wealth accumulation over generations
>And no taxes on wealth.

Sankin Kotai.

Taxation is theft

Contributions to any form of (((government))) should only be made voluntarily through a contract of mutual agreement

>>Progressive income tax with a cap on 40%
Income tax at 0% for everyone

>>No property value tax
Correct.

>>Sales and consumption tax at 15%
Make that 25% on average, some goods higher, some lower

>>High taxes on alcohol and tobacco (especially if you have public healthcare)
Ok

>>Inheritance tax on the 0.1% bracket to prevent massive wealth accumulation over generations
Bullshit, inheritance taxes are the most wasteful taxes out there

>>And no taxes on wealth.
Yes

>No property value tax

Yes plz. I live in Texas. That shit is fake and gay. Even Republicans stage protests on this shit rather regularly.

Yes, but then please do what neither Locke, Hobbes, Rawls, Montesquieu or any other social contract philosophers have not be able to do: Make a case for universal individual consent. Fuck off you idiot.

So you would prefer a straight up consumption based tax system? thats interesting. My argument for having an inheritance tax is as a remedy for growing wealth inequality, which if left unchecked will go bananas by the end of the century. Think Soylent Green.

Yeah, its fucking double taxation. Same as taxes on wealth. You already paid taxes on said wealth, why pay again?

On the basis of morality? No taxes. Muh NAP.

On the basis of what is practical in western society? Flat tax.

>Make a case for universal individual consent.
Topkek are you retarded?

I'm arguing for the abolishment of nation-states, not for the construction of a consensus state

>fairest system is no tax
then who will make the roads, burgor?

Fairest, not best.

>abolishment of nation-states
Oh so you arent an idiot, you are a full fledged fucktard? Well good news Hans, there wont be a germany before long. Better start reading up on Islamic taxation systems.

Here in monaco, there is only consumption tax. Only VAT. No income tax or inheritance tax. All of monaco only runs on TVA and has zero debt.

Regressive. The poor are the ones doing the crime so they should pay for the police.

You guys are like what? 40000? And you guys are all rich. Try having a country without income taxes when you have several million and a lot of human trash that the rest of us have to care for.

Georgism, land value tax only

Income taxes should be progressive with the top rate capping out at ~40% and a minimum tax of 30% for the ordinary income portion, 25% minimum on capital gains, and 27% minimum on private origin capital gains for those making $1 million or more -- basically a slight modification of the Buffett Tax. Flat taxes are just plain bad economics.

Add a handful certain tariffs on wealth-oriented consumption like a 25% tariff on high-end luxury cars. Of course add tariffs in general but that'll get a bit off topic.

Property and sales tax policy should be decided regionally.

I have to be honest with you björn, I'm actually torn inside

The logic of liberalist morals is striking and its principles compelling but on the other hand I see the threats of today and even though logic and my ethics tell me it's not right to force your own morals onto someone else, I somehow feel it's necessary

The biggest problem for me is though that not forcing your believes on someone has a logical principle behind it but I can't find any similar principles that would legitimize me to force someone else to behave differently (other than matters regarding my property or violations of a contract that the person in question agreed upon of course). So if you know of any such principles please tell me and convince me because I want to do what's right

I would remove tax on income (be it work or capital gains)

30% consumption tax + 30 % inheritance + x?
% on land

Monoca has it right. 40,000 and rich or not, doesn't matter. Only consumption taxes is the future.

You have the rarest of all euro coins btw with only 20k pieces made

If you have one you can sell it for thousands of euros to collectors no kidding

Consumption taxes are economically contractive though since they decrease net spending and economic activity. It's been shown mathematically that a land tax is optimal for economic efficiency and at the same time attacks the root cause of inequality.

bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-03-03/to-fight-inequality-tax-land

>Only consumption taxes is the future
I mean, if you want 70% sales taxes and to tax the poor economically more for the benefit of the wealthy...

Trips of troof

Every dollar you pay in taxes becomes 1 vote you can spend on elections or public government decisions.
You have the option to pay no taxes, but then you also don't get to vote.

>my ethics tell me it's not right to force your own morals onto someone else
Because its not ethical. But a true liberal society is the only society that allows one to be free to live as one pleases. Anyone that tries to change society into something that is not a liberal society, like say an islamic country, is indeed free to think that this is how the world should be. But the price of that freedom is that everyone elses freedom is taken away. Thus we some scholars say about freedom: You are not free to give up your freedom.

>(other than matters regarding my property or violations of a contract that the person in question agreed upon of course)
Yes, basicaly self-defence


What this boils down to is a deontological view on liberalism and freedom vs. a consequentialist view.

>So if you know of any such principles please tell me and convince me because I want to do what's right
Take a look at John Rawl's theory of "Justice as fairness" and "The veil of ignorance", I think its a good way of combining whats right with what produces the best outcome.

50% Sales tax

>Take a look at John Rawl's theory of "Justice as fairness" and "The veil of ignorance", I think its a good way of combining whats right with what produces the best outcome.
Thanks man, looking into it right away

Jesus Christ, do you want the economy to stall completely from nobody buying anything?

........ so Soros 4 perz every year goy?

Like seriously, John Rawls "Veil of ignorance" is probably the best argument for why a Liberal Society is the only society worth living in, and most importantly: The only society we would actually chose to live in if we got a blank check.

Stupid Sven.
Property taxes are needed to stop or discourage everyone hated jewish speculators on buying massive amount of lands and doing absolutely nothing with them.

You are lucky everyone in your country is smarter than you.

Best tax plan: flat 1% tax on every exchange earning payment donation or gift. Just enough for roads and publicly funded anime.

Georgism, the only fair tax is LVT

You're right,I just read about it

A big problem though in actually applying it to a society would be that the former society and its rules would have to be completely abolished and whoever benefits from the old society would try to prevent its substitution and probably succeed in most cases

how is that fair? capitalism isn't fair.

That should be up to the king. There is no reason the average person should have any say.

A high flat rate. With public expenditure focused on infrastructure and services that all use.

>sven
Sven is my cousin over to the east.

Property tax in norway is to create additional income at the municipal level you idiot. It does nothing to stop people from buying land because the price growth on property around Oslo is higher than the central banks interests rate and property tax combined.

But again, please tell me more about my countries tax code and real estate market.

Georgism

Tax the living shit out of the robot barons so society continues to exist

Property tax only, everything else is theft.

It's not meant to be applicable but rather its a thought experiment. It's a way of justifying liberal democracy as a social contract.

Zero. Zero theft seems pretty just to me.

The nation should own the production of money, the central banks and pay people to work for the nation. So that for example 1 dollar is not pegged to a barrel of oil, but valued to the work of a man

>just
>tax

taxation is theft

No taxes, throw tea into bays, fuck the british again.

Hello friends.
The Federal Budget was released last night. Here is an interactive breakdown of spending

abc.net.au/news/story-streams/federal-budget-2017/2017-05-09/federal-budget-2017-infographic-data-sliced-diced/8492204#spending/breakdown/2018/other-purposes

Thoughts on spending in Australia? My biggest concern is we are spending infinite on old people. What do they contribute to the country? Fuck all. Let em starve. Disabled should get money cause they can't help being retarded. But old people can help getting old without money (i.e. by working)

Land Value Tax > Value Added Tax > Flat Income Tax

no tax and let the retards sort themselves out.

?

It's the fairest because everybody keeps the money they make. You get what you get.

Its whatever causes most gdp per capita growth amongst the middle class. Any other answer is wrong.

Zero tax, all things should be based on donation.
If you want to live in a nice area with clean streets, police, and the such.
Pay for it.
If you choose not to pay the collective group can disbar you from living there.

It's not that different than community living in nice white areas.
You have to abide by some rules.

If not shop around and find the area that best suits your needs.

If you're a nigger and don't wish to pay for your benefits, well bye Felicia.

The fairest tax system would be a flat tax of one part in ten. The maximum any citizen would need to pay in the form of any and all taxes is 10%. All taxation at all levels would be unified (income=sales=hotel=enviro) and all forms of income would be unified as well (capital gains=interest=dividend=income=corporate).

There would be a constitutional limit enforcing this rate.

Tariffs

Capital gains would be taxed at the same rate right?

This is over complicated bullshit.

This.

No, but that would NEVER happen.

lol newag
nice tripcode
dumbass

> Increases price of all goods by 50%
> Shocked when people buy less shit
> Even more shocked when tons of poor people now can't even afford to get by at all when they used to be able to
> This is too complicated
Not really, it's pretty simple in all honesty.

>Flat tax is the most just.

No its not. The people making the most money are making a much greater use of the public goods. They are getting a much greater benefit from those goods. Starting with road system.

>This is over complicated bullshit.
Maybe if you're a simian.

Also,
>'this-ing' yourself

Bad economics.

None, the government should finance itself via bonds invested to make public benefit corporations

In reality, even a 50% max tax wouldn't fund our government. If you add up corporate, sales, income, social security and Medicare you exceed 50% at a very muddle class wage currently.

income tax a best

youtube.com/watch?v=pAephT94SAY

the hell kind of supply curve is that?

Religion doesn't make income. Collecting donations isn't revenue.

The best system is like what we have at home. My dad works , my mom takes care of us, and we do chores to contribute. I'm the oldest so I do the hardest chores. My little sister cleans the bathrooms and windows. When I needed a car, my dad bought me an M3. When my mom wants something, she goes to the mall. I don't have to pay anything when I go in the fridge, and my dad pays my college and gives me $10K a month for my allowance. Our government can be like my pop, and we can be like my mom, sis and me. What's wrong with this system?

property tax for local services
gas tax for roads
Vat of the feds

wait, am I retarded or is that graph really fucking wrong

to be fair he's still using the gvmt's infrastructure. Unless he has well water or all of his neighbors are fine with him riding his bike through their yards all of the way to his job.

I guess even then he would still indirectly be using law enforcement. He would be using their deterrence from people committing crimes that affect his property, person, etc. The same could be said about the military.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for smaller government and increase freedom, but some things are necessary.

Do you guys want to be a state or not? I hear mixing reports. I think we should just drop the territory so you guys can get relief from the IMF. Is there anyone in your country calling for it's own currency?

Can you elaborate on what you mean when you call inheritance taxes wasteful ?

flat tax and then cordon off a part of the country to deport anyone who dent want to pay, they can have ancapistan. Maybe ancapistan will be more successful, maybe not.

short term, where supply is static

It's a demand curve

That system doesn't scale to the masses, and works only for small groups, where everyone knows each other.

Tarifs and duties only

Ya'll gonna keep asking me that everytime I fucking post?

it's 50/50, becoming an independent nation would be dumb because while yes an IMF bailout would be possible we'd lose the $17 billion you burgers send us each year, it would be a net loss. And as to coining our own currency, the pro independence crowd is only 2% of the population, ain't happening.

Who cares. We all know what the real problem is.

This. Tariffs allow you to both ease the tax burden on the citizenry and maintain revenue while encouraging domestic production and employment. I've got a half chub just thinking about it

>everyone is taxed on their income let's say 10%

This is not flat tax retard. Flat tax would be saying that everyone has to pay $1000 bucks a year.

that's a poll tax, a flat tax is flat percentage

Man made the automobile, the airplane, and was able to willingly organise to bake various other engineering feats. I'm pretty sure we can fuckin make flat asphalt paths without the government

No, he's right, a flat tax is a flat rate on income.

Zero income tax. Sales tax could be 10-30%. I'm unsure if property taxes are fair.

>In reality, even a 50% max tax wouldn't fund our government.

The govt. shouldn't need billions to work. I know it's the current state of affairs, but it should have never gotten to that stage.

>works only for small groups
Why can't we have cells that operate this way, each with their own budget that's calculated by some type of index? Wouldn't that solve the scalability problem you describe?

One that eliminated the personal income tax entirely (so no IRS) and relies on taxes from goods and services.
youtube.com/watch?v=O6ayb02bwp0

This money is likely to be invested rather than used for consumption, giving some boost to your economy. Also, it's a small drop in the tax bucket.

> The govt. shouldn't need billions to work.
You're right, it actually needs trillions to operate and keep the country running. Thankfully there's enough land value in the country to pay for that.

slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/12/20/value_of_all_land_in_the_united_states.html

>>In reality, even a 50% max tax wouldn't fund our government.

Not actually true, US government spending is 36% of the GDP. A 36% tax is all you need for a balanced budget.

What do you think rich people do with the roads.

>the pro independence crowd is only 2% of the population
kek. Aren't you guys close to bankruptcy again? whats the plan to get out of that? More burger money?

Kinda run into a funding problem when they commit crimes because they have no money and therefore don't have the money to fund law enforcement. I suppose there could be some sort of forced labor camps, but aside from that (and even that) might be pretty sketchy. You'd run into the same problems we currently have with privatized prisons.

capital gains taxes are ridiculous as is. it's double taxation.

might as well make the oligarchy official at that point.

seems to me if someone's morals or lack there of are adversely effecting you then they should have to change their moral stance within reason. Or at the very least change their actions.

Badass. I'm totally for this

Don't fund it then, abolish those useless things