How can you naturally create the universe?

How can you naturally create the universe?

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You can't, Neither can it create itself.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

I just finished my paper, about that topic 3 minutes ago.

the universe is an eternal multidimensional self-replicating fractral

the big bang is a lie

evolution is true, it was designed by the devil along with the rest of the mortal world, that is why life is so saturated with suffering

we mortals experience only the tiniest sliver of a single scale of reality

we finite beings cannot comprehend the infinite

God exists but not in the way that many think, it's more complicated than that

How can you unnaturally create the universe?

We dont pretend to know how the supernatural works

But is the supernatural really unnatural. It's just a different kind of natural. If it's natural to have the supernatural then wouldn't the creation of the universe by supernatural causes just be natural in of itself?

...

I can't. It can however come into existence on its own and form structures through the laws of physics, random interactions, and the eventual formation of structures that self-replicate.

We have direct observable evidence of how a great deal of this happened. We have fossils of past creatures. Their traits gradually change over time as they change and form into new sorts of creature. We have evidence of how the solar system formed. We have assorted evidence of the big bang itself -- everything in the universe is moving away from one point, and we can see background radiation from it using microwave telescopes.

However there are some gaps in the fossil record, kinds of creature we simply haven't found any fossils of. This can be simple bad luck, or the way they lived resulted in few being fossilized. And we don't know, and may never know, what happened before the big bang. Why? Because no information survives when all matter and energy are compressed into a zero-size point.

And we don't pretend to know every last thing about the natural world. But the gaps in what we know aren't evidence that the theory is wrong. For instance, we don't know exactly how gravity works. We can measure how fast things fall, and predict how fast something will fall based on that, but nobody has observed a graviton if they even exist. Yet things continue to fall, and "not yet fully explained natural phenomenon" remains more likely than "an all powerful invisible being watches for unsupported objects and pulls them downward".

Where do the natural laws come from? How does the nothingness prior to creation hold the potential for creation?

They're somehow inherent to the universe itself. I said we don't know what happened before the big bang. We don't have actual evidence but there are a number of theories that speculate how it came to be. But until we can observe something outside our universe, because everything in it came from a single point that destroyed all evidence of what came before, or we can create a separate universe, we won't know.

Perhaps the universe has always existed, and is in an endless bang-crunch cycle like image says. But, you say, it had to come from someplace... Similarly I might ask you, where did God come from?

The big bang theory came from a Belgian priest as an explanation of how God could have created the universe. Everything comes from somewhere, even the big bang.

>Everything comes from somewhere
And where does God come from? See, your theory is at least as incomplete as ours.

Except the universe will keep expanding, and do so ever more rapidly.

>dude where did god cum frum
>bet u were stunned by my brilliance *tips fedora

Really faggot?

You kind of presumed on my position there, but that's understandable
You're right, the problem of "where did it come from" presents itself regardless of what you believe. I don't see a solution to this unless you remove time from the equation. I also don't believe we'll ever observe anything outside of our universe as long as we rely on sense perception to look for it. We can't devise an instrument to measure or observe something unless the data can be translated into something that the senses can comprehend, otherwise we won't know it even if we find something

We may be able to actually. A great deal of stuff in quantum mechanics doesn't translate well to something we can sense. At best we get artists' illustrations that are a lot more like analogies than diagrams of what's actually going on. Yet we can look at a theory and devise some test whose result will give a yes or no whether what's observed is consistent with the theory.

It can't.

Nothing can't become something. At best you can look up the big bang and how they have it to to 1/10th of a second but it can't be explained as to what caused it initially. And when they explain expansion and how all of the atoms and molecules came into existence, they're really just explaining their belief of evolution of molecular structures backwards.

God begs the same question, who created God.

From the scientific approach, what I find most interesting is this concept that, for no reason, the universe for a small amount of time expanded at exponential levels, and then seemingly slows down to a steady growth. - it's the only way for a temperature fluctuation that occurred supposedly within the beginning of expansion to make any sense of their theoretical model.

Aw fuck man, I was just about to explain that model as a thing I've been fiddling in my head with lol. That's awesome.

I believe to, within that model, that worm holes or black holes may be used as a method to skip being decimated within the singularity phase.

Well, whatever started our existence, we would not be able to comprehend it since it would be something from beyond the void.

Alright, but in order to actually understand our findings, they have to relate somehow to what we can experience ourselves. Otherwise it's just math that kind of makes sense but doesn't really tell us anything, if you get my meaning. It's just a set of relations between things that have no definitions

Not really. So long as we can simulate what "should" happen according to the math and compare it to what actually happened, we don't need to be able to visualize, relate to or understand the result. Even if the result is terabytes of numbers that there's no sensible way to relate to on a human level, we can have a computer compare those numbers to the expected result and tell us whether they match.

the Bearded Man in the Sky meme is what allows atheists to propagate. It is a simplified portrayal of deific omnipotence and omniscience so serfs could understand it in the Medieval era.

Consciousness is God's manifestations in the physical plane.

People often think Jesus was the literal son of God. That is the mistake. Jesus of Nazareth was named Jesus Christ because he was one of the few men in human history to achieve Christ Consciousness, which is simply a synonym for Cosmic Consciousness. His consciousness had tapped into the electricity and vibration o the universe and was no longer bound by the flesh and bone of his body.

>Jesus of Nazareth was named Jesus Christ because he was one of the few men in human history to achieve Christ Consciousness, which is simply a synonym for Cosmic Consciousness. His consciousness had tapped into the electricity and vibration o the universe and was no longer bound by the flesh and bone of his body.
Or he was a man with some rather progressive and politically unpopular ideas who was executed for his politics, survived the execution, and hung in there for a short while after.

this man has taken the infaredpill as well

careful not to drop too much gnosis at once

>tapped into the electricity
As an electrician, I want a further elaboration. Been hit a lot of time by live wires and I don't teach anyone to fish, or give a fuck if they're fed for a day or not.

>getting hit by live wires when you could just get a magnetic implant to gain a crude magnetosense
It's like you don't realize we live in a cyberpunk era

T. 3 magnets in hand just for the hell of it guy

His achievement of Christ consciousness was acknowledged by other individuals of similar awareness around the world.

>Who is Lahiri Mahasaya
>Who is Babaji
>Who is Arjuna

>inb4pooinloo

During Jesus' disappearance in the desert, many written logs from that time claim he became a disciple of Kriya in northern India where he mastered the techniques of achieving Christ consciousness.

Deny as you will but until you read the accounts for yourself the effort is moot.

>the universe is an eternal multidimensional self-replicating fractral
Elaborate?

Thought and consciousness is simply electricity flowing through the flesh of your mind. Do you believe that electricity can be wholly contained by flesh and bone? Does it seep out of the body in some way? How do we make super-neural connections with people in close proximity to us? Can we connect with the natural world by shutting off the physical senses and only focusing on the signals of consciousness and the mind?

Read Tesla's interview "Everything is the light"

ask stupid questions, get stupid answers.

Tis true without error, certain & most true.
That which is below is like that which is above & that which is above is like that which is below to do the miracles of one only thing
And as all things have been & arose from one by the mediation of one: so all things have their birth from this one thing by adaptation.
The Sun is its father, the moon its mother, the wind hath carried it in its belly, the earth is its nurse.
The father of all perfection in the whole world is here.
Its force or power is entire if it be converted into earth.
Separate thou the earth from the fire, the subtle from the gross sweetly with great industry.
It ascends from the earth to the heaven & again it descends to the earth & receives the force of things superior & inferior.
By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world
& thereby all obscurity shall fly from you.
Its force is above all force. For it vanquishes every subtle thing & penetrates every solid thing.
So was the world created.
From this are & do come admirable adaptations whereof the means (or process) is here in this. Hence I am called Hermes Trismegist, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world
That which I have said of the operation of the Sun is accomplished & ended.

He claimed to be the Son of God though which means he was either right or wrong, he never claimed anything else. I personally believe he was because he showed he was with the ripping of the veil, resurrection, and fulfilled prophecies.

underrated post

How can you magically create yourself so that you can magically create the universe?

>tapped into the electricity and vibration
here you failed miserably

The dissonance between dogmatic religion and atheism is the reason people cannot reconcile the truth lies between.

Christ and the Yogis have all claimed that science will prove their assertions correct in the end.

>Physical matter is the condensed vibration of energy
>consciousness is energy that flows from the universe and is processed by the perfect receptor of the human mind
>human senses inhibit cosmic perception
>attachment and desire inhibit the will to perceive the truth

This "electricity and vibrations of the universe" meme is getting old.

Physical matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration

Consciousness is electricity and energy flowing the the physical world and perceived by the finely tuned receptor that is the brain

>taking spiritual advice from potato nigger

I dunno

Fuck you and all you new age "gnostics", i hate you so much because of your diluted pseudoscientific bullshit. Don't you see contradictions in your ideas? "Woo Hoo consciousness is energy and electricity and quantum shit" What you are talking about is pure materialism, idiot

>Jesus of Nazareth was named Jesus Christ because he was one of the few men in human history to achieve Christ Consciousness, which is simply a synonym for Cosmic Consciousness. His consciousness had tapped into the electricity and vibration o the universe and was no longer bound by the flesh and bone of his body.
The name Jesus of Nazareth is the result of a mistranslation of Nasorean, the cultish sect of Judaeism that Jesus belonged to. The town of Nazareth wasn't even established until after his death.
The term Christ Consciousness is also modern, no mention of electricity or vibration of the Universe appears until the New Age movement of the 1960s.
Yeheshuah means Redeemer, is the same as Joshua, Ezekiel, Isiah, Jeremiah, all pronunciations of IHShVH which is Jehovah with the spiritual letter Shin dropped into the middle.
He brought Buddhism back to the simple people of the Middle East and when he refers to Soul you have to read it in the original Greek words for the Jewish terms, thay had many words for level of spirit, from vegetable life force up to Ru'ach, the Crown.
TLDR you niggers don't even study your own culture, don't even start on science, please.

-> "Consciousness is electricity and energy flowing the the physical world and perceived by the finely tuned receptor that is the brain" New Age materialist pseudoscientific bullshit. how can electric waves create universe, huh?

I have it figured out but I'm not sure if I should post it. Too many people think there aren't limits to empiricism when it comes to physics. I don't mean thinking unscientifically, I mean understanding that quantum randomness does not exist; that world is even more determinable than classical physics. In the physical sense, fate exists, it is just impossible to understand given our POV.

He claimed to be the Son of God and claimed that we are all equally children of God. If God is consciousness and the Universe as a whole then how is this not correct? We are the product of natural processes and physical matter
Then disprove it. Modern science has found that physical matter is energy. Consciousness is energy.

Is the electrical energy of consciousness supposed to be contained by a thin layer of skin and bone? Who's the one memeing here again?

Physical matter is simply comprised of atoms condensed to a slow vibration to create solids, bound by their positive and negative electrical charges. This is basic science.
I don't expect >flag to grasp the melding of modern science and ancient spirituality.

The "where did god come from" argument isn't logical. We can observe this world around us and see that it functions with a very precise order. Based on this order, we've come to certain conclusions, such as the universe having an age. We cannot draw any conclusions about any being outside this universe because we don't know anything about it. What we know for certain is that our universe has order, and order at the fundamental level cannot come about without an intelligent creator.

>consciousness is energy that flows from the universe and is processed by the perfect receptor of the human mind
New Age jizz, the human brain is a reciever in engineering, full of redundant systems. The human separate self sense is an artifact of that sensory apparatus useful for differentiating external events from internal phenomena, it breaks down during psychosis and can be clearly measured as it fails.
"You" are an optical illusion to yourself and will dissolve with a chemical imbalance or two.

>We are the product of natural processes and physical matter
So why you even try to push you new age spiritual bullshit then? No we are not. Chemical reactions in brain can not explain consciousness, therefore all these new age electric/wave/quantum mumbojumbo is just bullshit.

I think you spiritualists are confusing these "slow vibrations" with kinetic energy, which is the movement of atoms, and how things that aren't at absolute zero are in a sense always "vibrating".

Another reason why layman normies should leave the science to actual scientists and stick to their 2000 year old book.

>The "where did god come from" argument isn't logical
God always was, that's not logical either, but it's an article of faith.
Knowledge destroys both curiosity and all need for faith.
These threads are fucken gay.

>His consciousness had tapped into the electricity

I did not know that the universe runs on electricity, but apparently our god must have a huge nuclear power plant to power all this bullshit. And I guess our consciousness is made of copper or aluminium right? Cause other metals don't conduct said electricity that well. Would be nice, because if I go to hell I would like to be able to irradiate the heat a bit faster, especially if satan gave me a black shirt.

The term Christ Consciousness is also modern, no mention of electricity or vibration of the Universe appears until the New Age movement of the 1960s.

Only in the West. It is a well understood term in the East, has been for millenia. That is where Christ wandered for all those years to master his perception of divine consciousness.

You assume Christianity is the sole source for the teachings of Christ. Christianity is a dogmatic set of beliefs bound by parables.

The teachings of Christ are separate from the dogma of Christianity.

You assume you understand the teachings of Christ simply by learning Western culture. That is your mistake.

>What is Kriya
>What is Self-Realization

It is this question alone that atheists can not answer which gives reason to believe in god. However, we don't know how the universe was actually created and probably never will, which gives reason to be agnostic.
>inb4 145 images and 446 raging posts explaining how I'm wrong

>Physical matter is simply comprised of atoms condensed to a slow vibration to create solids,
>heard that Bill Hicks quote on Aenima once
>built a house of bullshit around it
>probably doesn't fucken read

>He claimed to be the Son of God and claimed that we are all equally children of God.
Many other men have claimed to be the son of God. You don't believe them though, do you?

>If God is consciousness and the Universe as a whole then how is this not correct?
In that sense, we are all the sons and daughters of God. When you dilute your definitions down this much they mean nothing.

>We are the product of natural processes and physical matter
So why add the layer of new age pseudoscientific bullshit on top? Take that away and you have atheism.

>intelligence used to be vague and try to win arguments
fuck the internet i swear

How can you unnaturally do anything?

>I don't expect >flag
im not irish

>melding of modern science and ancient spirituality.
There can not be any melding, this kind of melding is equal to racemixing with an embarassing results. You simply do not notice, that you just embrace materialism.

Let me give you an example. Image universe is a RPG game and God is an admin. Does internal variables in the server program correspond to admins consciousness?

learn me to condense energy you stupid nigger, or is there a chance you don't know wtf you're talking about?

Just like you create the sims.

>Where do the natural laws come from?
Why is stuff how it is rather than anything else?

Don't know.

>How does the nothingness prior to creation hold the potential for creation?
By being unstable as nothing.

>By being unstable as nothing

That seems to imply that nothing is something

"God always was" isn't in conflict with logic, "the universe just popped into existence" is.

I'm afraid that's an experience poorly conveyed by words. Once you see it, once you truly see it, it cannot be unseen.

That's why reincarnation comes with amnesia of your past experiences, an understanding of the infinite will undermine the finite mortal experience.

Even touching the infinite briefly will make you realize that death is nothing to fear.

The only way to reliably experience this would be through hallucinogenic drugs, and even then there's only a small chance you'd have such an experience.

>and order at the fundamental level cannot come about without an intelligent creator.
You were doing okay right till this part at the end.

Says who, and why not?

You are both proving my point.
The human brain/body is a physical being that acts as a vessel for a fragment of consciousness. The sensory inputs of the physical world dilute the signal of divine consciousness. If you consciously subdue sight, taste, hearing, smell, touch, what is left? Consciousness. These senses can all be replicated by consciousness in a dream state, meaning they are illusory, they are not the perception of any concrete reality.

>not realizing atomic structures are held together by positive and negative charges of individual atoms

What grade do they teach you physics in Aquafresh?

Are you trying to disprove my point? You are correcting my semantics, but still confirming my assertion.

>That seems to imply that nothing is something
Sure it's the lack of something. If you don't have something then you have nothing.

It's called chaos theory. The universe is 13+ billion years old, plenty of time for things to play out the way they have. No need for an intelligent creator, which cannot be proven showing that argument to be moot as well.

Yes, but than you jump to electric mumbojumbo.

>meaning they are illusory
If so, how can you be sure that electricity even exist, huh?

>These senses can all be replicated by consciousness in a dream state, meaning they are illusory, they are not the perception of any concrete reality.
Just because I can simulate a thing doesn't mean the original I based my simulation on isn't real.

>probably doesn't fucken read
>doesn't know me or the source for my assertions
>thinks this is an argument

do you know what differentiates solids from liquids and gasses? The difference between rays and particles?

No other man who makes that claim has the worldwide backing of other proven spiritual gurus and scientists.

That's exactly what I said. We are all the children of the natural world. We are born of the inanimate physical matter of the world and imbued with consciousness. You aren't really proving anything with that assertion.

Atheism is simply the belief that we should wait for western science to prove what has already been asserted by spiritual teachers around the world.
>the "Are we living in a computer simulation??" meme
yes we are, that simulation is a cosmic dream. the physical world is illusory since the physical senses can be controlled and altered by the mind, by consciousness

One example is this: The force of gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between two objects. Why not the cube? The fact that it is the square and only the square implies some sort of choice, which implies intelligence.

How can you be sure the "original" is really the original? Meaning how can you be sure your not on a simulation yourself?

>We are born of the inanimate physical matter
wrong

>the physical world is illusory

do you even notice your inconsistencies?

By outsourcing to God and taking credit and harvesting the profit via some retarded cult

It's the same exact thing. Replace "God" with "hot dense state".

And while you're at it, why don't you mend your spirituality around the notion that "God" may be a metaphor for the universe, that's a really beautiful thought if you ask me, especially considering the notion that he is "omnipresent".

you cant

If you can smell, taste, touch, hear, and see a whole different reality in your dreams, or in your thoughts, how is that any less real than the world we are currently dwelling in?
It is a fabrication of the mind.
We all possess a fragment of one singular consciousness which perpetuates the meme of the physical world.

>chaos theory
I'm pretty sure the laws of physics have stayed the same since the very beginning.

>The force of gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between two objects
No it is not. Furthermore, there is no force of gravity. What you are talking about here is just a human interpretation of come phenomena. So, it it humans who choose it.

Okay, how it is connected with electric wave mumbojumbo than?

post that shit nigga

I drank the yogi kool-aid too but I feel it would be disingenuous to talk about it as if were fact until I've reached that state myself, if it can be done. Otherwise I'm just parroting another belief that may or may not be true

The laws of physics allowed what we have today. Chaos theory describes a system that is sensitive to initial conditions. Those initial conditions are the laws of physics we know today.

We can prove the big bang and evolution yet still nothing on that god guy I mean how can you honestly feel like your not wasting your life when it comes to religion?

How is that wrong? lol

The elements we are composed of were once inanimate. Your mother and father consumed inanimate nutrients that we processed by the body to form egg and sperm, which was then fertilized and grown by more nutrients consumed by your mother, then imbued with consciousness at birth.

There are no inconsistencies, you are simply failing to understand what I am saying.

The physical world is an illusion of consciousness, but even dreams are bound by their own set of laws. Natural processes and the laws of physics are conceptions that solidify the dream into a consistent reality.

Dreams are a fabrication of the mind, based on what we experience IRL day to day. Depending on the dream they may be very similar to reality, or very different. Every person's dreams are radically different, and don't appear to interact with each other.

The way we experience reality is an interpretation created in our minds, based on what we get from our senses. But it is still very much driven by what's actually out there if you're sane. While some people focus on different objects and aspects or interpret them in different ways, we all perceive the same basic reality.

That's the difference. That's how dreams are less real than reality.

>What you are talking about here is just a human interpretation of some phenomena
True.
>So, it it humans who choose it.
Not true. We try to model our surroundings with mathematics. We then test our models with direct observation. Newton's law of gravitation may be a very simplified model of what we call gravitation, but it fits experimental results. My point stands.

The physical world is the manifestation of thought, it is an extension of consciousness.

Atoms only maintain their location and structure when observed.

>One example is this: The force of gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between two objects. Why not the cube? The fact that it is the square and only the square implies some sort of choice, which implies intelligence.
No it doesn't; Because we have no proof that any other relation is possible let alone that it was selected and that the selection was done by intelligence.

How do you know the inverse is not true? Atoms only maintain their structure and their location in space when observed.
Who's to say that the world is not a manifestation of a cosmic dreams constructed by the multitude of observers within it?

dream*

No, I'm saying kinetic energy means nothing, just that atoms move when not frozen. You spiritualists just see it and think it's some big holy thing because it's a bunch of sciency words that also sound spiritual, when it's really simple.

>Chaos theory describes a system that is sensitive to initial conditions.
I love it when retards regurgitate stuff they've just picked up from the internet. Yes, chaos theory describes systems sensitive to initial conditions, but what do you think makes those systems sensitive to initial conditions? The governing equations, that is, the laws of physics. Chaos theory can't explain a system that has no governing equations.

>The physical world is an illusion of consciousness, but even dreams are bound by their own set of laws. Natural processes and the laws of physics are conceptions that solidify the dream into a consistent reality.

nonono, you fail to understand what I'm saying. If reality is a dream, than everything is a dream. How can you explain dreamer (consciousness) by something that you observe within a dream? Are you sure that "laws of nature" even exist, and are not just another illusion?

see

It's well established that matter continues to exist when nobody's looking. There are certain circumstances in quantum physics where observation does affect particles, but this does not apply to things on the scale we perceive day to day.

You cannot poof a million dollars into existence, and you cannot will yourself to quantum tunnel out of a jail cell. If you have a ball, it will still be there and have all the same properties if you choose not to believe it exists.

That's exactly what I'm saying. They are an illusion. Everything is a dream, a cosmic movie. The movie can only take place when that singular consciousness is fragmented to create multiple observers, actors, who perceive the world through the same set of natural laws. If there were no natural laws there would be zero consistency between observers and we would not be participating in the same dream.

Also, the words dream and observer don't fully encompass what we are attempting to define but it is the best English can do.