Obamacare

Sup Sup Forums
I wanted to hear your arguments about Obamacare : is it good ? Is is bad ? Why ?
I heard a lot of things both from my country's MSM and from threads on Sup Forums so I wanted to have a honest discussion with you.

>inb4 rare flag

Other urls found in this thread:

kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/2017-premium-changes-and-insurer-participation-in-the-affordable-care-acts-health-insurance-marketplaces/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

It's bad because it's the government forcing people into a business transaction

>Flag
wtf ! How !

Shitposting from the European Parliament wifi

Tell us how you got the flag and I'll tell you.

You got your answer, m8

You on the drink again Jean-Claude ?

Post an internal pic

this, do it faggot

Obamacare was designed from the ground up to increase profits for insurance companies and nothing more.
>Make it illegal to deny coverage based on preexisting conditions
>Heavily fine anyone who doesn't purchase a health insurance plan, can lead to jail time
Do the math.

It's bad because it compromises the quality and availability of care to the point that you will eventually be guaranteed to not receive care quickly enough and of high enough quality for any large wound and be guaranteed to thus become crippled for injuries that would normally heal completely.
It's happened in almost every single country with public healthcare. The exceptions are in small homogenized communities and actually I have no proof that they're not also flooded with these problems, just hearsay.

It's horrible. Free market or single payer system, but a federal mandate that everybody has to buy healthcare is fucking retarded.

What the fuck did that guy just say about niggers and music???

Fucking racist piece of shit what the fuck

Praise kek!

Bad. Makes plans too expensive for practical use. Most people just want catastrophic coverage similar to how car insurance works. Obamacare makes everyone purchase a comprehensive package which most people can't afford the premiums for (government subsidies the premiums) AND can't afford the deductibles (no subsidies).

End result is you've got awesome coverage that the government pays for but you still can't afford to use it because you'd need to spend 10-20k before it kicks in.

It's good for poor people and people with conditions they can't help having, like cancer.

It's bad for everyone else.

Fine you faggots

What nationality?

French

Is Nigel in the parliament? And what are you doing there?

Healthcare is not a right. You can not force people to become doctors, or nurses. Quality drops when the government steps in. Or you end up like the UK where their nurses are supposedly getting ready to strike due to low wages.

I'll try to give as quick as a run down as possible, Europe.

Obamacare has helped a little bit with the pre-existing condition clause. But it has not helped when it comes to the costs of premiums for coverage. They have gone up drastically with the ACA/Obamacare.

Here's a graph for you. kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/2017-premium-changes-and-insurer-participation-in-the-affordable-care-acts-health-insurance-marketplaces/

It sucks. We've done this thousands of times, so here's the highlights.
>no government oversight for a mandatory program, so insurance companies keep raising rates.
>no real competition, so free market isn't allowed
>really helps no one but the poorest people, with cancer
>destroys middle class income
It's the crappiest form of socialized healthcare, and even the people it benefits most [insurance companies] are dropping it.

Nurses in the US get paid well yet they still bitch and complain about MUH HARD WORK.

encore un emploi fictif du Fn
bosse au lieu de shitposter assistant parlementaire surpayƩ par mes impots.

To be fair, some of them are being overworked based on hours. Or pulling way to long of shifts. Or they're understaffed for the number of patients under their care. They're paid well because they're in high demand. Burgers gonna burger.

Are you this guy op

It effectively outlawed cheap insurance. Everyone who didn't have a chronic or preexisting condition saw their costs go up. It created a financial disincentive for anyone who had the audacity to be healthy.

My cousin's wife is a pretty well paid nurse. Nearly six figures. The reason why they claim to be "overworked" is because most nurses in specialized units such as ICU, NICU, Neuro, Ortho, CCL, etc, cannot take off at all. So they have to work those extra hours or else but don't let them make you believe that they're not getting paid OT for it.

My family costs have more than doubled, coupled with deductibles so high it's basically unusable.


Obamacare has failed. PS I voted obama...

Pros: lots more people are covered so they dont drain the system by using the ER as their GP.
Cons: increased costs for everyone

The whole system needs to be overhauled. It's fundamentally flawed and all obamacare does is put a bandaid over it. "Trumpcare" doesnt sound any better either.

Obamacare is fucked up thing that only Americans could implement.
From what I understand it allows you to buy insurance in the middle of cancer without problems. So you can pay for very minimal package and then when you are really ill jump up to some premium one(it'll still be much, much cheaper than actual cost of healthcare) and insurance companies can't say no.

As such they've started raising their costs or gtfo from some states completely, because the entire insurance business is based off the fact that there's plenty of people who pay despite not needing to, it's all just in case.

Nah, I'm with ALE/Green

Anything that provides insurance for people with preexisting conditions without discrimination WILL drastically raise the cost of insurance. There is no possible way to avoid this. It's literally a wealth redistribution scheme.

I'm a dual-enrolled recipient through Social Security so I couldn't give less of a fuck about Obamacare or Trumpcare.

The problem is shits so expensive because they're not going to get payed the full amount because of uninsured people abusing the system and not paying. Hospital bills 10 grand when insurance may only pay them 1500, doctors charging 500 and only getting payed 150.

Nurses always strike, no matter how much are they paid.

And it's fucking retarded too. Typical nurse around here works in two hospitals and uses half of her shifts in both to sleep(and then doesn't sleep at home).

This is just a beginning, they often swap their shifts when going on vacations so a week before vacations can look like - two first days are 48 of work in a row so they can have additional 5 days of vacations and then, when they come back they start working 5 days after the leave is over and work 48 hours to make up for this - I know a nurse who regularly do it.

Now ask yourself how hard can be their job if they can survive 48 hours of it in a row.

It's a game. Generational debt slavery and population control. Global governments get concerned about birthrates getting too low, but don't care for the working age population. After your born, your parents will carry that burden. After you've worked 70 years, paying to the system, having your kids and perpetuating this process you've now become "successful".

It's unconstitutional.

It's dead right now
Biggest insurance company pulled out so there's no one backing it

>again
Can't get back on it if you never stopped.

It seems like it was built to fail. I get to enjoy paying 10k a year for 18k deductible, while De'Shon gets gibscare on my dime

What's there to discuss? If you want people to study to become doctors for decades, they need to be able to make money off of that as an incentive. Intelligent people have enough options to go into non-government slavery fixed-price markets, so by setting prices you are driving up costs and deterring intelligent people from becoming doctors.

More doctors = more competition = lower costs.

Is it safe to stop paying Obama care now? I don't even use it, if I ever need to see a doctor I just go to Mexico.

we would have to pay for fat asses which is not good.

They have no choice in many countries. The only way to legally be employed as a nurse is to be in the nurses` union cabal and pay your dues and strike when they tell you to strike.

This is the stupidest shit I've read this morning.
It's not unusual to be talked down to by the doctor. You're the sounding board for upset families. Therapist when your patient is at their lowest despite having others to care for. Staying on top of a patients condition to watch for any down turn. Wound care and various bodily fluids on a daily basis. The untold amount of walking while you're out on the floor.
Work 12 hour days and what does it matter which days you work. Don't hate because of that flexibility. Hate because of how much BS we put up with when lots of us got in it because we wanted to help ppl

This is why everyone hates you dumb commie fucks. If insurances CAN'T deny INSURANCE, not care, INSURANCE which is what you get BEFORE SHIT GOES WRONG, why the fuck would anyone get insured BEFORE they get sick?

The whole idea of health insurance being profitable is that healthy people pay into it for 40 to 70 years before they get sick, so by forcing INSURANCE companies to accept people who are ALREADY SICK but haven't paid before, you are increasing their costs to the point where the insurance companies can no longer function as a business.

Insurance companies are dropping out of the business left and right due to billions of dollars in losses. The idea behind obama"care" was to get everyone INSURED, not to give everyone CARE as the name implies. The number of doctors didn't magically increase, just the number of people asking for healthcare services without paying for them.

Socialized medical care can go one of two main ways in a capitalist society...

>1. Public Oprion
A government-run health insurance agency competes in the free market with private industry. Think Is the national postal service vs Fed Ex/UPS/DHL.
Almost nobody does this.

>2. Government resides over the health care market and dictates that certain requirements must be met in the interest of providing health care access as a right for all citizens, or at least most of them.
This is more common, and can have a wide range of implementation. The core issue here has always been that if everyone is entitled to health care, how do you provide it for people that can't afford it because either A: They're poor or B: they have a condition nobody wants to treat because it's either incurable or simply not worth the financial risk of insuring (cancer, blood sickness, mental disorders triggering retardation, etc.). So how do we ensure that these people get covered?
Three Solutions:
1. Tax the fuck out of everyone. Do away with health care as an industry almost entirely and provide it to every citizen free* of charge (* - free in that you will not have any major medical expenses as the community pays in advance for it all). There, now everyone pays more out of taxes but breaking an arm will never financially ruin someone's life. This is the Canadiant/European model.
2. Say fuck it to universal health care and just do away with it. This makes it very affordable for most people but essentially unobtainable for the poor and those with pre-existing conditions (Sorry Dad, I know you have cancer, but nobody wants to pay for It, sooooo....). This is the American right wing plan. Poor people get screwed, but everyone else doesn't hmgave to pay out the ass in taxes.

(Continued next post)

I'm homeless and paid 6k in Obamacare fines, while working a minimum wage job. Ask me anything.

FINALLY. JESUS FUCKING AMERICANS

(Continued from )

3. Try to make some batshit insane half way system that creates a federal oversight of insurance but doesn't eliminate the free market. Because the free market is run by private corporations still trying to appeal their shareholders, and because they are forced to provide for those with pre-existing conditions, they have to charge everyone else more.
>but wait, you said in the other system everyone else paid more anyway
In the other system everyone pays more but they all pay the same proportionaly. In this, companies still have to make a profit so they throw the costs up ridiculously high for everyone that can potentially afford it but wouldn't if they know anything about balancing a checkbook. This results in blue collar working class and middle class families getting hit hard because they have enough money to afford it but not if they want to send kids to collage, but a bigger home, have a decent cell plan/cable plan, etc.
>but what about the poor people that can't afford it at all?
It's ok we will just make a government option.
>Well how does that sustain itself?
We force everyone that doesn't have health insurance to pay a fine which goes to funding the government option.
Oh wait, people have figured out the fine is less expensive than getting insurance they technically COULD afford but don't think they need. That means nobody is buying insurance which means the cost to sustain this system is growing more expensive because nobody is buying into it and now to pay this thing off if you break your toe just going to the hospital will send you into debt even if you have insurance.
Republicans say: this sucks. Get rid of it.
Democrats say: It's worth it to protect the poor and people with pre existing conditions.

TL;DR it's got to be either all or nothing. Either do UHC or completely privatize it. Obama tried to meet in the middle and it's not working.

I had brain surgery last year but i only have a $500 deductable so never saw a bill that would have cost 75-90k. Surprise, surprise i dont have obummercare.

I'm of the opinion it's shit, but I'm certain plenty of people like it.

>get TRICARE (armed services healthcare)
>still have to pay for it
>watch friends premiums double, then triple

These aren't esquire kids, these are primarily teachers and secretaries I'm talking about. It's in my best interest to pay less money for redundant coverage, so I'll do what little I can to try and get it booted.

If you live in the US you have obamacare. You may not be signed up for Medicaid or Medicare through the ACA, but your private insurance plan you have is is more expensive because of obamacare's rules, UNLESS you're just dirt poor.

Literally a ticking time bomb
People live longer and health care gets more expensive by the hour
Meanwhile the retirement age has not changed and neither has median house hold income in the last 50 or so years
Therefore the only way to pay for it is to continuously raise taxes on the middle class whites who don't even use Obama care.