Redpill me on the Confederacy

Was the Civil War really how it's taught in schools? Was the South really the bad guy?

It was really about state's rights, plain and simple.
Federal government overreaching like it does constantly now.

Its the "War of Northern Aggression" for a reason. South didnu nuffin.

The north and south were fighting different wars

The south seceded over the issue of slavery, specifically the spread of slavery into the western territories, but the north didn't fight to "make men free." The south viewed the war through a lens of independence while the north fought to suppress a rebellion, pure and simple. The north viewed secession as politically intolerable. The north didn't fight the war because they were so nice. The abolition movement was never a popular movement in the northern states.

Lincoln's second inaugural address says it all, we all sides knew that slaver was "somehow the cause." Slavery was the only political issue that our politics couldn't resolve.

state rights for what though

>dindu nuffin
>attacks fort sumter completely unprovoked
gtfo hillhonkey

Why not just go read reputable sources rather than asking Sup Forums.

It was about the same thing large groups of men always fight over, money and power. Slavery was the morality claim from the north but really the decided to overtax the self and then cut them out entirely on trade and deal with Britain.

The States' right to keep human beings enslaved.

>trespass repeatedly into waters that dont belong to you
>get told to stop your bullshit
>keep bringing ships in aggressively despite warnings to stop
>get shot the fuck up for trespassing
>blame the people who's waters you wouldnt fucking get out of

Nice try, yankee kike, but you cant spin the facts.

>niggers
>human

Read "to the victor goes the myths and the monuments" and for a quick rundown on it search that into youtube

Read Union and Liberty by John C. Calhoun and you will understand what the South was fighting for.

The US was founded because of the South. The Constitution would not have been ratified if not for the South. When The North sought to make the South subordinate to their indisutrialization, they rose tariffs and threatened to unbalance Congress in favor of the North.

The South seceded to form its own government in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence, but the North and its (((banking powers))) wouldn't have any of that, so they invaded the South and the War came.

ya they were a bunch of shitlords

Furthermore, The South was the true bastion of American independent spirit and (((those))) that wished to weaken America in order to install a (((central))) bank knew that the South must be brought to its knees otherwise they wouldn't allow such shit to occur.

>dindus
>humans

War of northern aggression is about states rights.

>humans

This was the fatal sympathetic error that doomed our nation.

t. Yank

>but muh slavery!!!

There was bullshit on both sides.

First, slaves were not treated nearly as terribly as portrayed. Yes, keeping people in chains and thinking of them as nothing but property is absolutely terrible, but slaves were owned by the vast minority of Southerners, and why, exactly, would a slave owner intentionally damage or destroy their own property?

Additionally, as the North was decrying the use of slave labor in the South, they were "employing" children to work in their factories. So it's kinda a six-of-one, half dozen of the other situation. Fucked up on both sides.

Yes, the South left over slavery (or state's rights, but state's rights to... what, again?), but!

Put yourself in the mind of a typical Southerner back then. You legally purchased a worker from a slave ship that (statistically speaking) was from the North, most of the workers on that ship were Northern, the owner of that ship was from the North, etc. Now they're coming in deciding that they found religion or morality or whatever and you should completely get rid of that property you purchased (no refunds tho lol).

As I said, yeah, the South was rather quite shitty for leaving over slavery, but the Yankees were hardly angels themselves.

Their entire worldview was different back then.

Imagine it as a version of globalism vs nationalism.

Their loyalty was to the individual state, not the USA. If you were a Virginian, you were a Virginian first and foremost. America was second. Many of the Confederate generals actually opposed the war, but joined the South because they followed their state, period.

The political writing was on the wall that the South was going to lose power. You can't deny slavery was at the center of it. But it's intertwined with the general loss of power. There were going to be more free states than slave states.

It's kind of like if UN authority was creeping in over the US, and we were like 5 years away from them controlling us completely. Slavery was the flashpoint issue.

No, as a matter of fact the south was thought as more civilized in their way of life. Many northerners didn't even want to give up their slaves. So yes, it is taught how it was if you were raised in the south.

But why do all the confederate documents specifically enumerate slavery as something they were trying to preserve?

The good guys lost.

technically.

But really it was to keep their "property" and "wealth"

The slaves just happened to be a huge part of that wealth. If they had their wealth in other means, they wouldn't have needed slaves, and would not have given a shit that they were free, provided they did not live along side them after. As many slave owners feared that slaves would slaughter their families if they were ever free. (I guess they were right, it just took over a century)

HOL UP
>shells Fort Sumter
SO YOU BE SAYIN
>secedes and breaks up the union
DEM YANKEES CALL US STUPID BUT
>refuses to industrialize cause it's essentially a third-world country reliant on exporting a single natural resource
WE WUZ
>enslaves human beings and breeds giganiggers so they can keep farming their one fucking crop without having to leave their front porch cause they're too lazy
GENTRY AND SHIT

Why do shills keep flooding this board with racist bullshit? Sup Forums is a board for intellectual political discussions, you racist shills won't taint our good name

Read contemporary accounts of the war, read the south's actual reasons for war: it was about slavery. Slavery was been gradually phased out since 1780 but the South had no interest in abolishing it. Even the Founders didn't envision slavery lasting forever. The Union even gave the south concessions like the 3/5 Compromise (every third nigger giving them extra and undue representation and influence-kinda like the practice of counting illegals today) but the south kept pushing it.

The south even wanted to expand slavery, the war could have been avoided if the south just kept it in existing slave states, but they wanted to colonize Mexico and south America (see the Golden Circle) and literally fill the Americas with millions more nigger slaves. If it was about "state's rights", why did the south's own constitution say literally nothing about permitting secession? There were plenty of Unionist holdouts in the south that were not permitted to secede from the south. Also, not all abolitionists were nigger lovers, some saw it as hurting the white working class. There were attempts to repatriate slaves back to Africa but slave owners opposed it because they wanted cheap labour.

just like the good guys lost in WW2. i think the victors write history or something.

It was literally about Slavery. The Articles of Secession of most Confederates states outright said so, the others were thinly veiled BS. All other issues were resolved in congress before the war. Muh state rights is bullshit. And Slavery was just the economic foundation of the richest 1% of the South at the time. In short, Confederate people were morons who got conned into dying for cotton profits....hundreds of years later, trailer trash are still cucked and brainwashed to be dumb retards being bitchbois to a trickle down con "culture" and being herded like retards with simple muh culture, white power, bullshit sold to them by their real enemy, rich white men. You confederate grandpa died for confederate-Trump just like you die a little on the inside each day as you remain forever a virgin, being the internet bitch for nu-Trump

Southern elites convinced the average southerner that niggers were vital to the economy to the point that industrialized agriculture would be bad. Union fought to reel back in the south because it was a vital part of the USA. Slavery was only important to the south as the reason for the war, at least until Lincoln cemented the Union's goal of emancipation well into it.

Abolitionism movement was in full swing. The south economy was heavily based on agriculture. The North's wasn't anymore. Taking that moral high ground was easier for the North because it didn't effect them.

The North didn't respect states rights. They were pretty much running the federal government. The south wasn't seeing much representation. Manufacturing interest were being favored, and the south was getting fucked over.

Lincoln was a abolitionist. Didn't give a fuck about the south.

Not to mention the cultural differences were way stronger than now. The south felt like they were getting the short end of the stick.

By the time of the civil war, the international slave trade was nonexistent. Slave buying and selling was entirely internal for most nations; the US included. While it is true that it would've primarily been northern ships selling slaves to southerners initially, the United States was several decades removed from that reality.
Everything else in the post is good; I'm just correcting that one inaccuracy.

You're not asking why though. It wasn't a matter of wanting cheap labor as much as it was maintaining a slave class so that the entire southern economy didn't collapse because of the northern tariffs.

Imagine if Scotland became an economic powerhouse with England's economy being dependent upon selling material to Scotland. Scotland left England to flounder in worldwide competition whilst simultaneously charging England an absurd amount of money for manufactured goods.

The south could have easily adopted modern industrial technology to make their cotton and tobacco profits even higher, but there was staunch conservatism at the time amongst the elites thinking that slavery was the most profitable means.

It's because the entire war was about (((Southerners))) trying to keep their free labor.

The south economy depended on slavery. North didn't. The progressive northerners decided that they should be able to completely fuck over the south's economy because their newly developed morals decided that slavery, an institution that had existed for all of human history, needed to be gotten rid of.

From an absolute stand point, you could say that the north was the good guys for wanting to abolish slavery. But from a relative standpoint that takes into consideration the context of the time, the north was basically saying "we want to completely fuck over your entire economy and change your way of life just so that we can feel good about ourselves."

By the time the question about slavery came through the cotton gin among other things had been invented. There was literally no economic reason for slavery at that point.

What technology did the South willingly not use to increase their cotton production?

Yes, they sperged out and tried to turn the country into some limp-dick confederacy.

Well seeing how slave free Europe increased their crop production rapidly in comparison to the south quite a lot.

The south had plenty of representation at the time. In fact, a number of compromises were put in place to ensure they did get their representation. The problem was with the new states entering the union. The South wanted to make sure that the representative balance, of slave and not slave states, was kept. If it was lost, they believed they'd also lose the slaves. Lincoln believed that the South could have their slaves, but that no new states should be slave states. Thus, Southerners felt that their only option was to secede if Lincoln won the presidency, which he did.
And to say Lincoln didn't give a fuck about the South just isn't true. His plans for reconstruction were by far the kindest and may have actually reconstructed the south, instead of what wound up happening (the South languishing in extreme poverty until the Great Depression threw everyone into poverty). The people who didn't give a fuck about the south were the ones who came after him.

Truth is the civil war was state rights vs federal rights, and the feds won.

in school i learned it was the noble black men of the north waging a war of independence against the evil and degenerate southern white men.

Oh and never once was it mentioned what political party Lincoln was part of (they still exist today!) nor any mention of what political party fought tooth and nail after the war to keep black slaves (they still exist today!)

women should be enslaved

I'd thank you for listing some. It seems a bit strange that the South was too dumb to adopt technology that their slaves could have run. Increasing the longevity of their investment as well as their production capability.

The cotton gin is a huge portion of what made slavery profitable. Before then you could only grow relatively small cotton fields because picking the seeds out of the cotton was so labor intensive. If you wanted to plant one of those massive fields full of cotton that people now think about when they think about these things, it would've taken either: a. Way too damn long to do it, or b. So many fucking slaves that you'll never pay off the debt you incurred buying them.
After the cotton gin, slavery was more profitable, cotton could be better harvested, so they planted larger cotton fields and more people got in on it, and more people doing it meant more demand for slaves.

tl;dr version - The argument over slavery *was* a major part of what led to the Civil War, but it was far from the only point of disagreement - taxes, tariffs, exploitation of Southerners by Northern industrialists, poor representation in the federal government, and a growing cultural divide between the North and South were all important contributions, along with a host of rallies and riots that led up to the actual secession. Up until about 15-20 years ago a lot of this was still part of public school curricula, but in recent years educative administrators have basically forced public school teachers to boil the lessons down and make the conflict much more morally one-sided and simpler.

Same thing's happened with most primary and secondary school history classes. Tragic really.

So are you arguing that slaves were more efficient than many of the techniques and technologies developed in the 19th century which we still use today?

My argument is that, at the time of the civil war and for the people who owned slaves, owning slaves was the easier option. Later in the 19th century with the full mechanization of many of the harvesting processes, I think it's very clear that demand for slaves would've gone down.
But my main argument was about the cotton gin specifically, which, like I said, helped increase the profitability of slaves (assuming that you own a cotton gin as well).
Also, the cotton gin was a 1790s invention, not a 19th century one.

The Great Depression would not have occurred under the same conditions had the South won. The Civil War lead Lincoln to recharter the National Bank. Without such a scenario, the Great Depression may not have impacted the US at all.

No, I'm arguing that this nebulous technology would have greater benefited the South's ability to stay afloat by vastly increasing the raw output of materials. But they just chose not to adopt it because well Niggers thats why. Niggers are incapable of working machines. Niggers only know how to pull plants out of the ground.

What exactly do you mean when you say technology? Do you mean labor saving devices? Are you talking about railroads and shipping methods? Were the English keeping them out of the artificial manure industry?

The school system forgets to mention how little it really was about slavery. It was a silly and costly war so both sides had to take an important issue to give the young men
a reason to enlist. North chose slavery and South chose state's rights. That's not to say either weren't important issues but it is
clear to me that they weren't actually the cause of the war.

>free labor

Slavery isn't free. Not anymore than Mexican migrants

It would definitely still have impacted it, and the one who really enabled the national banks to have the power to screw over the economy is Woodrow Wilson who established the federal reserve.

It's actually WORSE than taught in school. Rarely do history books mention the repeated attempts by slavelords to force free states to accept slavery in their borders, usually by court, or sneaking riders in other legislation.

To not get taxed out the ass like we are now.

Pea-brains will say slaves despite the fact that slave labor had already been largely displaced by advancing farming technology and would have economically obselete within a decade. Also the fact that 99% of southerners didn't own them and still chose to fight for autonomy.

The lower classes were manipulated by the southern elite; who wanted to continue the exploitative and regressive British system against the better American system of economic and technological progress in the northern states.

The fuck are you talking about?
Every single US history class I've ever had has mentioned the Dred Scott Case and the Fugitive Slave Act.

>calls it the British system
>the Brits had already industrialized and ended slavery in their nation
C'mon man

They werent americans. They were traitors who died traitor deaths and had their states burned to the ground. Neo confeds should be shot on sight for being literal traitors.

Can you provide any reliable source quoting any influential figure at the time who claimed it was about taxes?

Jesus Christ...
That one in the back has it's pants down all the way to it's shins.
How do they expect to walk? What the hell is wrong with these tools?

*ignores the actual letters from prominent confederate figures that explicitly state slaveerly as a driving force for the war*

Im too lazy to find them but i want you to know you are not smart

I'm afraid I have to agree with riled up Unioner

sc sovereignty flag is best flag

It was actually because the north wanted to tax the south hard to pay for the north's industrialization, and the south was like, "Go fuck yourself" and split from those greedy fags. The nigger thing was only after the fact. Also the north started the civil war.

If youre in need for redpills, read The Real Lincoln by Thomas J. Dilorenzo.

John Calhoun wrote that the tariff of 1828 would eventually cause South Carolina to secede from the Union. Just search "South Carolina Exposition and Protest."

In Lincoln's First Inaugural Address he promised he had no intention to change slavery in the South. He argued it would be unconstitutional for him to do so. But he promised he would invade any state that failed to collect tariffs in order to enforce them.

Our country was founded by literal traitors to the British.

I'm going to research what you said (even as I believe you), but thank you for that insight! I'll amend my arguments accordingly.

Foreign powers + Vatican + Jews attempting to punish American independence, and weakening them by inciting war through corrupt/subverted/controlled generals and officials on both sides.

It wasn't meant to end as soon as it did, it was meant to continue to an even more bloody conclusion.

Lincoln was a true patriot, and he paid the price for it. Note that immediately after Lincoln was assassinated, the US government cut all ties with the Vatican.

DNC MURDERED SETH RICH

Slavery was abolished to cripple the south economically. The JEWnion hates blacks and whites equally and now enslaves them both.