You can't just launch an all out air attack against a military base 4,000 miles awa-

>you can't just launch an all out air attack against a military base 4,000 miles awa-

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You cant tho.

Pearl habour was done by US forces on US forces to get the US into the war

2 explanations
>Americans planed it
>Americans have been too stupid to keep track
both leading to the same conclusion
Japs and Yanks are both deplorable

>you can't just bomb an allied ship and get away with i-

why did they do it?

I have watched interviews of the Japanese pilots who carried out the attack.

The Japanese had aircraft carriers.

People on the ground easily identified the aircraft belonging to the Japanese.

It's very likely those pilots were old and senile and simply remembering another raid from later on in the war.

You can't just nuke a country twi-

...and?

It's not difficult to paint a big red circles over stars of David.

>Since 20th century USA was an industrial powerhouse unlike any other nation on the planet
>Turned lots of their industry to militarization becoming very well equipped, highly industrial nation
>USA was ''brought'' into every major conflict since 20th century after being an ''unprovoked'' nation carried an ''surprise attack'' even though it stood absolutely no chance in a direct conflict against it
really makes me think

6 aircraft carriers
2 battleships
2 heavy cruisers
1 light cruiser
9 destroyers
8 tankers
23 fleet submarines
5 midget submarines
414 aircraft

A fleet and airforce larger than 95 % of all nations today.

The fleet alone would be in the top 5 by tonnage.

British intelligence knew of the attack before Dec 7, but they never warned us because for the (((obvious reasons))). Churchill wanted us to enter the war so we can waste American lives on a shitty Island in the Atlantic.
Hitler should have never allied with Japan, facing two supers powers on both fronts is hard for any nation.

Who made that argument? Why is this a thread? I don't understand what's happening here.

just like those "german soldiers" killed by german soldiers to get germany invading poland

>FDR wanted the US into the war
>Moved Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Hawaii against the wishes of the Navy
>Froze Japanese assets and made it difficult for them to get raw materials by placing an embargo against them
>Offered the Pacific Fleet as a tasty target that was unprotected
>Made the Air Force park their vehicles in a very strange way "against sabotage" and had them remove the wings and propellers and had them park nose to nose. This meant in an emergency they were not able to be used.
>US had cracked the Japanese code and knew everything that was going on. Including where the Japanese fleet was.
>December 6, 1941 the Navy had a HUGE party for all sailors. This was essentially an all hands affair with lots of booze and dancing.
>Not all sailors went to this because during the night the aircraft carriers and modern naval ships crept out in total darkness.
>Other sailors and crew were drunk and told that December 7th was going to be a day off so they all got wasted and nobody noticed the ships leaving Pearl Harbor.
>US Navy had a plan to attack the Japanese fleet. They just had to wait for the various attacks to take place first. It was going to be on the 3rd run by the Japanese that the US Navy would strike sinking the Japanese fleet and destroying the aircraft thus claiming a "huge" victory.
>Japanese started toward Pearl Harbor on the first run. US Navy told those who reported seeing aircraft on the radar "those were American planes" and not to worry.
>First strike hit. Old WWI era battleships (like the USS Arizona) were hit and destroyed
>Second wave attacks while first wave of Japanese planes are refueling. Admiral Yamamoto finds out that all the modern ships are gone. He senses a trap and orders the planes to finish their run and come back as they are going to leave

(cont)

Hitler never really allied with Japan, germany supported china before pearl habour. There only was the anti communist pact.

At this point a war between germany and the US wasn't possible to prevent since the americans sendes so much stuff to the british that a victory would have been impossible, germany would have declared war on the US some point anyway.

>Battle of Port Arthur, 1904
>Japanese launches surprise attack on Russian ships
>Declaration of war came afterward
>Americans laud the act as cunning and crafty, deviating from traditional warfare

>Pearl Harbor, 1941
>Japanese forces attack American naval base after sending a declaration of war a day earlier
>US government fails to translate the declaration within a day
>Unaware on the ongoing conflict, the US citizens perceive it as a surprise attack
>Upset about it to this day

Sometimes I hate this country.

Come on, user. I'm waiting

>facing two supers powers on both fronts is hard for any nation.

not if the pillock didn't divert resources on attacking london instead of the RAF knocking out britain thus preventing D-Day or any landings for that matter.

or sleeping through D-Day and blocking attempts to use the panzer armies in the battle. when everything for the allies was hardly going to plan.

D-Day was a mess for the allies and really germany got as far as they did thanks to their enemies incompetence but also incompetence at key moments was their own downfall

that Pearl harbor was actually quite a feat for only the japanese air force to attack with success

>US Navy is now caught with their pants down. They fully expected to be able to destroy the Japanese fleet and claim a huge victory.
>Now they had a disaster on their hands. How can they explain how all their modern ships were not hit but only the old ones were?
>How can they explain how they sacrificed many American and civilian lives for nothing?
>How can they explain what happened? Simple. Blame those who were kept out of the loop for what happened.
>After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Husband E. Kimmel who was Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet and General Walter C. Short the Army commander on Oahu were relieved of duty and demoted.
>They now affixed the "blame" for the disaster on two people and then painted this as something like "the alamo".
>Newspapers printed this attack and demanded war against Japan and Germany
>Congress sprung into action declaring war on Japan and Germany
>This conspiracy to get the US into the war worked. Just like the Zimmerman note got the US into WWI and the "sinking" of the USS Maine in Havana, Cuba harbor got the US into the Spanish-American War.
>In conclusion there was a conspiracy at the highest level to invite a Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor to get America into the war in Europe on the British side.
>Kimmel and Short were merely scapegoats. Since their deaths their families and friends have tried to clear their names on the grounds that Washington had not provided them with all the intelligence indicating an impending attack. >On those grounds the US Congress exonerated the two men in 2001. They have subsequently been returned to the ranks they held before Pearl Harbor.
>This isn't the first or the last time deception was used to get a country into a war. (Vietnam, Iraq invading Kuwait aka "First Gulf War", 9-11 and a host of other things.)
>Look up Operation Northwoods (CIA false flag to attack American cities. Same thing going on today.

Thanks, senpai

No problem. I love reading history and find it fascinating about how various movements take place.

It makes me sad realizing how many of the things I learned about in books were all wrong. For example the reason that the Texans fought so hard at the Alamo instead of surrendering or leaving was because there was a HUGE amount of gold coins that was given to them by the US Government to help hand out money to bring people into that area.

Mexican whores found out about this and told others who in turn told General Antonio López de Santa Anna who wanted that gold for himself. That was why he killed everyone that was there so no word would go out about what happened to the gold.

The Mexican troopers who loaded the gold into carriages and transported them to "safety" were then executed. "Dead men tell no tales" and that gold caused a lot of deaths.

So it is fascinating to read history. See what happens in the world and see what the "official story is" and then try to figure out what really happened.

The problem is the more recent an event that happened the more dangerous it is to look into what really happened.

> during the night the aircraft carriers and modern naval ships crept out in total darkness.
Proofs nigger.
Locations of Saratoga, Lexington, Enterprise (which I guess are the modern capital ships you are referring to) are well documented and they most definitely didn't sneak out of Pearl Harbour the night before the attack.

Lexington had left the Harbour on the 5th to ferry VSMB-231 to Midway. Saratoga was docked in San Diego and Enterprise had left on the 28th to ferry VMF-211 and was due to return on the 7th.

You can't amount to anything as a countr-

Or perhaps he's wondering why a country would raise and repair supposedly antique battleships in the first place.

why did japan and germany attack the US? I understand it was to stop supplies but even then it was even worse to give an excuse for the US to join the war. it's just like my MMOs why aggro everything when you can't handle it?

Was anyone disputing that ever? Seems like this would be a /his/ thread.

Germans didn't attack the US
USA pretty much declared war on Japan with all the sanctions
Also USA supplied the brits who were in war with germans, despite >muh neutrality, isolationist policies

fucking idiot japs. if they hadn't attacked the US the US never would have become the zionist whore that it is today

yeah but then the US is still giving sanctions and still supplying the brits AND now they're also physically joining the war with their own navy, air force, and soldiers. I don't know what japan expected to accomplish.

no consequences. why wouldn't they?

it was real in my mind

>>First strike hit. Old WWI era battleships (like the USS Arizona) were hit and destroyed
Most of the damaged battleships were repaired and were able to take part in the war. They were useless of course, the era of the battleships was long gone.
>> Admiral Yamamoto finds out that all the modern ships are gone. He senses a trap and orders the planes to finish their run and come back as they are going to leave
Actually Yamamoto was sailing in a different fleet well behind the carriers. This was retarded because he couldn't support the carriers from that position, and he had to keep radio silence during the whole operation (otherwise the carriers could have been triangulated). He was there just because in Japan it was customary for the commander to be present in the battlefield since the samurai times.

The japanese task force commander was Nagumo, and he has long been blamed for not finishing the job. He was a cruiser officer who got to command carriers because of promotion, but knew nothing about air warfare. He should have bombed fuel depots and taken out the airfields completely. However there was a problem. The japanese navy was there all alone, as it was responsible for the islands. The japanese army was responsible for China and Japan, and they were at odds with the Navy, so they didn't want to help in the operation. On the contrary, they would have liked the Navy to fail so as to get allocated more budget from the government. Nagumo didn't have enough troops to invade Hawaii so it was a hit and run, and with the american carriers out there it made sense to GTFO.

FDR apologist shill detected

Japs were based and dindu nuffin. Just look at anime for proof

>not an argument

The Americans were already jewed, that's why the jews boycotted Germany from NY, and that's why they entered the war to help (((Churchill))) and her reptilian majesty. The USA was a jew stronghold.

Here is a list of all ships that were "saved" during the attack on Pearl Harbor.

ibiblio.org/pha/pha/misc/non-ph.html

FDR's attitude is best summed up by co-conspirator Admiral Bloch's testimony to Congress, "The Japanese only destroyed a lot of old hardware. In a sense they did us a favor."

This was obviously FDR's view as well, because on 7 December at 2:15 PM, minutes after hearing of the attack and before any damage reports were in, FDR called Lord Halifax at the British Embassy and told him "Most of the fleet was at sea...none of their newer ships were in harbour." He had protected the new ships, the important elements of the fleet, and that fact was at the forefront of his mind in relation to the attack. First, it means FDR didn't care about the old ships. Secondly, it means he knew before the attack that only old ships were in harbor for the attack. Therefore, Pearl Harbor was "the first shot without too much danger to ourselves" he sought. FDR was the architect of the attack plot from the oil embargo to the ultimatum to the final touches of deciding who would live and who would die.

You are right. It was Nagumo.

It would be. But at some point Sup Forums merged with /x/. Pretty much any and all WW2 related threads usually devolve into some conspiracy, Hitler was right, etc.

Japan has nothing but rice. Back in the 1930s they were very dependent on the USA selling fuel to them. But they also needed raw materials, and because of this they invaded China. The USA wanted to have China for them, or at least prevent the Japs from becoming big, so they embargoed the fuck out of the nips.

Not having oil, they were forced to take it from New Guinea and that required a big fleet to protect the tankers. This supply route could not be secured unless they neutralized the US pacific fleet first.

Don't change the argument, you said these ships had sneaked out the night before. No they hadn't. Lexington left 2 days before, Saratoga was in San Diego, and Enterprise had left 9 days before and enroute to returning to Pearl Harbour on the 7th.

The goal was to try and deal a massive blow to the USN to prevent the USA's retaliation for months of end. The hope was that the USA due to how "isolationist" it was at the time would sue for a peace deal due to having no Pacific Fleet.

The problem is that they forgot that they were dealing with Americans. Americans don't get depressed, just more angry.

WTF source ? It would make a great movie