Sup Forums communism general

[Samuel Brooks]

Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.

Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.

What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:

>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
>To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

It is recommended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.

Resources:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm
marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm

[Daniel Nelson]

A communist society would free individuals from long working hours by first automating production to an extent that the average length of the working day is reduced and second by eliminating the exploitation inherent in the division between workers and owners. A communist system would thus free individuals from alienation in the sense of having one's life structured around survival (making a wage or salary in a capitalist system), which Marx referred to as a transition from the "realm of necessity" to the "realm of freedom." As a result, a communist society is envisioned as being composed of an intellectually-inclined population with both the time and resources to pursue its creative hobbies and genuine interests, and to contribute to creative social wealth in this manner. Karl Marx considered "true richness" to be the amount of time one has at his or her disposal to pursue one's creative passions. Marx's notion of communism is in this way radically individualistic.

[Landon Robinson]

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[Jayden Diaz]

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[Aaron Davis]

youtube.com/watch?v=zZqVOFSYRWI

[Luis Thomas]

youtube.com/watch?v=0dmC_ABXV2U

[Leo Gonzalez]

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[Jack Gray]

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[David Harris]

The eternal Commie-posting Spaniard who's great grand father probably fought the Reds in Spain and a Fin who's ancestor also fought the Soviets in the Winter war are glorifying Communism.

L M A O

[Angel White]

>Fin who's ancestor also fought the Soviets in the Winter war
Wrong, neither of them did. Other side.

[Elijah Hernandez]

Both my grandpas were communists.

[Justin Ortiz]

Ah so your ancestor fought for the pillaging and raping Red Horde that failed to destroy a nation of 3-4 million people, despite the fact that the Soviet Army alone was bigger than the whole Finnish people at the time?

[Christopher Martinez]

>failed to destroy a nation of 3-4 million people, despite the fact that the Soviet Army alone was bigger than the whole Finnish people at the time?
Objective was to take Karelia from Finland. USSR did just that and also took Petsamo and Salla. Finland also lost that war.

[Caleb Barnes]

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[Nathan Clark]

Hey, I did an analysis of Communist versus (weakly) Capitalistic nations, recently! Want to see?

jec.senate.gov/reports/103rd Congress/East-Central European Economies in Transition (1634).pdf
npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/your-grandparents-spent-more-of-their-money-on-food-than-you-do
cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000498133.pdf

(1995) Hardt & Kaufman analyse the patterns of economic growth and transition in East-Central European economies.

Their analysis reveals that nations under Communist control actually experienced relative decline in capital stock, development, GDP, and prosperity in toto. Meanwhile, Germany, Austria, France, and other western European nations experienced increased economic growth in the Wirtschaftswunder, Trente Glorieuses, and the post-war boom. Overall, the inefficiency of systems without competition or market-clearing prices became costly and unsustainable, especially with the increasing complexity of world economics. Per capita GDP in Socialist nations rapidly fell below comparable western European counterparts on an exchange basis.

To showcase the effects of Socialism and Capitalism on the basis of per capita GDP, several average nations are compared above using 1990 dollars in the years 1938 and 1990.

The Czechoslovak Socialist Republic declined in total GDP 20,9% after the collapse of the CCCP/USSR, in addition to their minute growth; Poland declined 13%; Hungary declined 17,5%; Bulgaria declined 28,9%, and; Romania declined 32,4%.

In 1990, Soviet nations also spent a larger portion of their income on food (44%) versus western nations (11%). This indicates that food was relatively more expensive and their wages were lower, since they still ate fewer calories than did westerners.

[Jaxon Russell]

How's Vietnam, Korea and Afghanistan? Oh yeah...

[Camden Turner]

The authors remark that socialist states lacked competition and market clearing prices (they hit them twice between 1938 and 1990, for oil, and for grain), while effective demand neither constrained supply nor provided stimuli to improve microeconomic efficiency. Capital stock stagnated as individual initiative and risk-taking was impossible and governments are unable to create innovation — in the Soviet Union, factories didn't close or improve.

The authors call these results 'misdevelopment' and they're readily visible in the aftermath of Communism, when every post-Soviet nation experienced a precipitous immediate decline in GDP as they began the process of liquidating their bad investments had under Soviet central planning boards. This price had to be paid eventually, and it cost them dearly, but the results of transitioning to the capitalist market system were better than continued squalor under socialism.

Socialism made eastern Europe poorer than it should be. Socialism cannot work without omnipotence and clairvoyance thanks to the impossibility of the aggregation and use of knowledge in one place, and the impossibility of economic calculation, explaining these results.

[Carson Nguyen]

Here are the PPP figures for some others ones.

theunbrokenwindow.com/Development/MADDISON The World Economy--A Millennial.pdf

(2006) Maddison analyses the history of the world economy from a millenial perspective.

In his work, Maddison displays some intriguing figures about the 1990 purchasing power-adjusted (PPP) GDPs of various western capitalist and eastern socialist nations between 1950 and 1990, which are shown above.

The Czechoslovak Socialist Republic declined in total GDP 20,9% after the collapse of the CCCP/USSR, in addition to their minute growth; Hungary declined 17,5%, and; the Soviet Union in toto declined 22,8%.

On a PPP basis, weak capitalist economies (Italy, Spain, and Austria in this example) outperformed strong socialist economies (Czechoslovakia, Hungary, USSR total) by a factor of two. Counting the declines of socialist economies after the CCCP fell and liquidation began, they beat them by a factor of nearly four.

[Adam Young]

piie.com/research/piie-charts/average-life-expectancy-post-communist-countries-progress-varies-25-years-after

(2016) Hauck shows that average life expectancies in post-communist countries rose significantly after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The life expectancy of Slovenians has risen by nearly 18 years to 80; Balkan nations have gained 4 years to their life expectancy towards an average of 75; eastern Europe in general has gained 5 years towards 76; Turkmenistan has gained 2 years towards 66; former Soviet states in general have gained 3 years towards 71.

The collapse of Socialism and the gain of Capitalism in the former-USSR has led to longer lifespans.

Why were life expectancies FALLING under Communism and picking up AFTER it?

[Nolan Parker]

I'm glad the Commies lost the war in Spain. Were they shot after the Fascists won?
youtube.com/watch?v=0tSY2CjP5l4
No it wasn't you idiot... the point of that war was to reclaim the borders of the old Russian Empire which the Soviets saw as their spiritual ancestor, so they wanted all of Finland, during the duration of the war, future Finnish Communist dictators were awaiting in Moscow for the Red Army to overrun the Finns and take Helsinki and for Suomi to capitulate completely.

Since the Soviets failed utterly and humiliated themselves throwing themselves at the Finns, and Stalin had no more time to waste in Finland, he signed a treaty with the Finns where he gained some land, but not all of it.

They didn't lose the war, but they had to make some sacrifices to remain independent and to stop Communism.

[Jace Sanchez]

If the economy was so great, why did the underground economy become larger than it?

ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/1993-900-03-Treml.pdf

(1993) Treml & Alexeev show that the 'second economy' (black market) of the Soviet Union distorted and destabilised the visible economy and eventually outgrew it in total.

The black market of the Soviet Union was more important to sustaining the lives of Soviet citizens in the long-run, and it contributed a greater deal to the national GDP in the end than did the actual planned socialist economy.

[Liam Carter]

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[Jack Young]

>Objective was to take Karelia from Finland.
Sure it was, gomrade. They totally didn't want to annex all of Finland, but simply could not do so.

[Isaac Gray]

Why, in all of their planning, were they only able to come within 5% of targets twice?

goo[dot].gl/2zWUaL

(1988) Bethkenhagen shows that the USSR met clearing price targets (within 5%) for oil one time between 1972 and 1991.

That is, they failed to properly estimate the price of oil and it's derived products for all but a portion of the period 1983-84, marking a long history of inefficiency and resource misuse despite the oft-repeated socialist mottoes of "production for use, not for profit" and "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

Those claiming that prices can be cleared as an answer to the consumer good side of the economic calculation problem must answer up for: (I) why the USSR (almost) never met the target, and; (II) how a central planner or a mutually-owned firm would properly estimate the value of goods, services, land, factors of production, and other resources ahead of time in the first place.

The USSR managed to meet (still missed but came within 5%) their target one single time in 19 years — this is a clear indicator of failure.

Interestingly, the changes in clearing price prediction reveal two things:

1) The USSR's capital stock declined past a certain point and because production from those now-declining factors cost more, they began to (mis)estimate that the values of the goods they produced were higher, or they needed them to be higher to compensate for repair costs, and;

2) The USSR, due to a failure to accumulate capital or a decline in real capital stock, was unable to compete with other countries who were now producing the same goods at lower costs and selling them at low prices that the USSR could not match.

The USSR was unable to keep up and had to compensate with higher, uncompetitive, and incorrect prices. Clearing price trends elucidate the state of the USSR's capital stock, and what they show is decidedly not pretty.

[Isaac Gomez]

Here sage.

[Eli Bailey]

Time to compare death tolls little children

[Leo Green]

What was up with their "official reports"? Why did they lie in them?

roiw.org/1993/23.pdf
articles.latimes.com/1991-04-04/business/fi-2827_1_black-market

(1993) Alexeev & Gaddy analyse income distribution in the USSR/CCCP in the 1980s, using Soviet-released data.

The data reveals that reforms reduced inequality in the Soviet Union as a whole throughout the 1980s and income inequality was greater in the poorer, southern republics of the USSR than in the north. The effects of black markets (unofficial or private income) can be estimated to increase the second trend, but the effects on the first can't be determined based on available data.

Per capita income in the USSR (based on pegged Ruble-USD exchange rates, which are off-base (high)) was $190,4 in 1980; $215,9 in 1985; $249,9 in 1988; $257,21 in 1989, and; $290,7 in 1990. Inequality based on the data given by the Soviets is almost non-existent, but this makes little sense, as per capita GDP was higher in this period, and inequality was significantly higher as well.

Clearly, the USSR forged its data and forged it horrendously or, alternatively, the per capita income of Russians was had through the black ('second') market, and not through the officially planned channels.

[Ryan Anderson]

>were they shot?

Nope

[Chase Ward]

census.gov/population/international/files/USSR.pdf

(1991) The Census Bureau compares facts and figures from the USA and the USSR.

The USSR hid around a million people in secret jails (gulags) every year between 1970 and 1990. Gulag workers are not included in the following statistics.

The USSR was 17% less urbanised in 1970, 10% less urbanised in 1980, and 15% less urbanised in 1989.

The USSR had more deaths each year, increasing between 1970 and 1989, while the number of deaths each year decreased in the USA in this same period. The death rate in the USA declined over time, while it increased in the USSR.

Life expectancies were 1,5 years shorter in the USSR in 1970, and were 6 years shorter in 1988. The USA progressed in life expectancy, but the USSR did not.

All-cause death rates/mortality decreased from 945,3 in the USA in 1970 to 868,1 per 100.000; this increased in the USSR from 822,4 to 999,4. Health became worse over time in the USSR, contrary to what economic development tends to bring.

Infant mortality in the USA declined from 20 per 1.000 in 1970 to 9 per 1.000 in 1989, whereas the USSR did not progress from between 22 and 25 per 1000 over this period.

The USSR averaged five to six times as many abortions per year as the USA, and a five times higher abortion rate.

[Jonathan Stewart]

Nope, they didn't. Finland lost both of those wars and they had to spend cold war kissing USSR ass just so that they wouldn't get steamrolled.

[Thomas Richardson]

The USA, despite having a smaller population, enrolled more than twice as many people in schools as did the USSR.

There were more twice as many physicians, two-hundred thousand more nurses, and twenty thousand fewer dentists in the USSR than in the USA, despite their generally worse — and worsening — health. Evidently, these doctors did not mean much of anything and were more for show, than for use.

There were nearly three times as many hospital beds in the USSR as in the USA, but, again, their health worsened over this period in spite of this. Americans that were hospitalised spent half as long in care as did Russians.

There were around 50% more housing units in the USSR as in the USA, but the average size was between one-fifth and one-sixth the size of the average housing unit in the USA.

The USSR has almost ten times as many theatres as the USA did with yearly attendance four times as high as in the USA. Propaganda was required viewing in many areas.

There were twice as many foreign visitors to the USA as the USSR, and around 90% of the visitors to the USSR were Europeans, especially those visiting their families on the other side.

Workers in the USSR averaged 36 hours of work per week, while workers in the USA averaged 40 hours of work per week at far higher pay grades, with far greater compensation, and with less physical exertion.

Citizens in the USSR produced far less than their American equivalents; they took home less money; they spent a higher percentage of their income on food; they had fewer household amenities and fewer luxury items and their lives were marked by much less wealth on average.

In total: the USSR was much worse, and it became even worse over time, compared to the USA, which started better, and became even better with time.

[Noah Sullivan]

COMMIES BTFO

[Samuel Hall]

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[Nolan Murphy]

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[Leo Bailey]

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[Xavier Hernandez]

Too bad.
youtube.com/watch?v=nQYuAMDx7OA

Spanish NatSoc stabs a Spanish Commie Antifa

50 other Commie antifas afraid to do anything
They were a neutral country, and starting another outright invasion of a Democratic and Western country was a recipe for WW3 with Nato and the Americans.

Jesus Christ you pathetic Communist.

[Luis Brooks]

>1990
Right when it was collapsing, yeah.

[James Gomez]

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[Nathaniel Rogers]

jstor.org/stable/25642976

(1941) Hitler says "basically National Socialism and Marxism are the same."

Get out, Socialists. Why not respond to the FACTS AND FIGURES above?

[Ethan Reyes]

Its economy grew throughout the 80s at its highest rate. Notice that I also included their GDP in 1973 :)

[Nathan Bell]

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[Zachary Phillips]

We are reaching levels of samefagging that shouldn't even be possible.

[Nolan Sanchez]

Actually capitalism killed a million or so Russians when life expectancy declined for a while in the 90s, and when crime rose sharply and living conditions deteriorated.

[Jace Long]

>mandatory same sex marriage since the days of civil war

Commune when

[Blake Flores]

youtube.com/watch?v=BJGViepwaKo

[Jaxon Walker]

That's an argument against central planning, not against worker ownership.

[Jonathan Cruz]

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[Hunter Allen]

i dont know if you ever heard of ernst rohm

he was a german national marxist, he wanted wealth redistribution

hitler had him killed lol

to have a socialist country you must have a centralized banking system, which is what the US has...

Germany did not and was flourishing

[Brayden Foster]

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[Easton Parker]

How does Capitalism kill anyone? Capitalism is not a system of maintenance, it is laissez-faire -- let it go! Not giving you bread is not killing you, it's just not saving you.

Capitalism has killed exactly zero people. Capitalism has saved and allowed the existence of billions.

The empirical data is in -- you lose!

Communism killed many millions as it must due to the inability to calculate.

Worker ownership also doesn't work unless it's stock instead of direct-part ownership. The ECP applies to that, too.

[Isaac Russell]

>things went to shit slowly in a time literally called the Stagnation
Surprise surprise.

[Cameron White]

BOO HOO PRIVATE PROPETY IS EVIL CAPITALISM AND IMPERIALISM

are you sending this from your personal computer?

[Ayden Taylor]

Please don't make this kind of thread again :)

[Levi Russell]

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[Andrew Thompson]

This was their peak, actually. They were never better than this.

But, good try. Their GDP progressed from 1938 through to 1990 with the greatest growth in the '80s (even slightly before Gorby!).

Germany existed based off of debt and its economy was also just a heap of malinvestment. cf. "The Vampire Economy."

Commie faggots delineate "personal" and "private" property based on the ownership of means of production, although computers are certainly a means of production.

[Joshua Gomez]

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[Aaron Williams]

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[Joseph Morris]

The Eternal commie stirkes again, return to your precious mongolian lands you finnish fuck

[Thomas Ross]

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[Alexander Ross]

Wowee, it's almost as if varying degrees of collective ownership exist! They were certainly Socialist.

And guess what: collectivism distorts and cannot make order.

[Levi Brooks]

>Germany existed based off of debt and its economy was also just a heap of malinvestment. cf. "The Vampire Economy."

Not true at all.

卐 - NATSOC ECONOMICS EXPLAINED
------
>One of the most plagued questions we get when talking about Fascism is economics, normally brought up by people still stuck in a liberal mentality and limited scope of perception, where everything is defined in term of social and economic policies, rather than principles derived from the notion of a singular Truth and Order that dominates the world. The variety of historic economic plans and practices maintained by various champions of our Struggle likewise distorts any comprehensive answer to the question. All in all we've simply answered people that economics are secondary, they don't matter in such a way as to be a fundamental and defining element of Fascism. The answer didn't change, however there is now a way in which we can describe this attitude to economics, and it's actually a word we've used repeatedly in reference to Fascism anyway: Socialism.

>Our Socialism, however, is not in of itself an economic system, it is not the Socialism of Marx and co and stands in direct opposition to both Communism and Capitalism. It would be more accurate to say that to Fascism, Socialism is the definitive social structure which is more comparable to the structures of Individualism and Collectivism, yet it stands in opposition to those two structures as well.

(Continued)
archive.is/7CUMq

For more, see pastebin:
pastebin.com/PPsmxdiK

[William Stewart]

saying something doesn't make it true

You're a faggot.

See what I did there?

[Brody King]

im not a capitalist you red dog

[Anthony Lewis]

Its funny how his state collapsed Pedro, perhaps the economic crisis has hit you hard and I understand but just because Uncle Alberto got lynched by Franco does not mean that you have to endorse Communism

[Oliver Diaz]

>worshipping a dead ideology
There's a reason why nobody takes you seriously and hasn't taken since 1945

[Jack Sanchez]

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[Carson Cooper]

Are you arguing that National Socialists are actually socialists?

[Hudson Bennett]

You are right, Hitler was wrong, totally.

Yes, completely true, or maybe you're a better authority than Hjalmar fucking Schacht.

scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1175&context=gsp

"Following a Keynesian-style policy dependent upon heavy borrowing of “gigantic sums of money”, Nazi Germany’s national debt by 1939 “had reached 37.4 billion Reichmarks,” where even “Goebbels, who otherwise mocked the government’s financial experts as narrow-minded misers, expressed concern in his diary about the exploding deficit.”"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mefo_bills

READ -- SOCIALIST

[Tyler Torres]

I could ask you the same about Afghanistan what's funny is that one brush fire war didn't bankrupt us like it did the soviets

[Adam Morgan]

They are. Hitler even said it.

[Owen Clark]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany#Pre-war_economy:_1933.E2.80.931939

Or, maybe, this spending was a figment.

[Owen Ramirez]

Funny you should say that, give me one example of your ideology as it should be alive today?

No?

How about one in 1945?

No?

How about one in 1917?

No?

Protip, you can't because you mongrels cannot even institute the ideology. You call out someone for worshipping a dead ideology, but yours is a fantasy one.

[Daniel Rodriguez]

so you agree that north korea is a democratic republic?

[Henry Cooper]

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[Caleb King]

Dead Ideology?

How is it dead? We're stronger than almost ever before, and we see through your bullshit you pathetic Communists.

[Asher Barnes]

North Korea is a Socialist state, much like Hitler's Germany, albeit with less private property.

Hitler himself said that National Socialism is basically Marxism, and what happened in practice proves it thoroughly.

[Henry Kelly]

Not again, literally all forms of Hitler's economics under Schacht, and then under Goering completely and utterly contradict Socialism principles.

Under Schacht the Nazis followed deficit financing, the Socio-Economic reforms of the original 25-point programme and the policy of Wehrwirtschaft and defence economy. Apart from massive public spending, all of the actions taken were profoundly unsocialist, and were reflective of a state capitalist society.

Under Goering again they followed a state Capitalist society, one that was gearing up for war. To call the Nazis actual socialists is extremely misleading

[Oliver Diaz]

What happened in practice as in not abolish private property and cooperate with banks?

[Mason Diaz]

>We're stronger than almost ever before, and we see through your bullshit you pathetic Communists.
>This is what nazis believe
Nobody likes you whether it's socialists, communists, liberals, capitalists, civic nationalists, globalists, moderates etc.
You don't have the numbers and never will, that's why there hasn't been serious nazi movement after WW2 ended. Because you're a joke. Bad one, at that.

[Luis Moore]

How's Venezuela doing???

[William Nelson]

>gommunism is the next stage of humanity following the gapitalist stage :DDDDD
No empirical evidence for this claim exists.

>from each according to their ability, to each according to their need
What incentive do those with high ability have to produce in such a system? Oh that's right, you wish to enslave them.

>to achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state
Cargo cult economics.

[Connor Lee]

>gommunism didn't fail
>you are just cherrypicking facts from when gommunism failed

[Aiden Campbell]

>utterly contradict Socialism principles.

This is a lie.

laissez-fairerepublic.com/tenplanks.html

The Ten Planks:

1 - partially enacted
2 - enacted
3 - partially enacted
4 - enacted
5 - enacted
6 - enacted
7 - enacted
8 - enacted
9 - enacted
10 - enacted

Which part of Socialism was National Socialism NOT?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program

Hmm, they collectivised... and that's socialism... so... they must not be socialists!

[Liam Brooks]

And btw: actual socialism is of course impossible, so what we do is we note DEGREES of collectivism and socialisation, which the Nazis had a high degree of.

Actual Socialism only existed once (in the modern era): 1917-1921 where roving gangs of cannibals wandered around in barren Russia and died en masse.

It, of course, existed in the small-tribe of our hunter-gatherer days, but that was the last real time it functioned.

[Ayden Moore]

>communist accusing some one else of worshipping a dead ideology
Oh I am laffin

[Isaiah Davis]

...

[Hunter Gomez]

>Hitler himself said that National Socialism is basically Marxism, and what happened in practice proves it thoroughly.

>The Western democracy of today is the forerunner of Marxism which without it would not be thinkable. It provides this world plague with the culture in which its germs can spread.

>The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy ... proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism...

Hitler gave lip-service, the man worked with the German DNVP i who were a group of reactionaries, he gave no such offer to the KPD, he had the far more left-leaning Strasserites purged and Rohm was killed because his views were too left. Hitler was not a Marxist in

[Samuel Adams]

I am not a Socialist Marxist nor am I a Communist.
There's literally more of us every day. There was even a West German Nazi Party that won a lot of seats in the West German parliament in the 1950s than some other Democratic parties so they had to ban it to stop it from spreading.

There is a National Socialist party in every country of the world and every race and ethnicity.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about .

The local antifa in my city get their asses kicked by the Police AND by the Nazis.

Have no fear. We're just biding our time.

[Zachary Cox]

>workers built your factories
A construction company built the building (unless the businessman did it himself), various businesses like metal works, carpenters, electricians, etc. furbished it with machines and amenities to function.
>they extracted the raw materials and refine them
A business or businesses extracted the materials and refined them (unless that's what the factory does, unclear from this comic).

The businessman had to invest in all of these things in order to get his new business off the ground, paying people for their products/expertise, so that he could pay people without a business to work for him and make money for himself while maintaining the whole thing.

It makes no sense to conflate the common worker whom the businessman is paying to work for him after he set all of the conditions in place for there to be a job in the first place with the other "evil capitalists" that the businessman bought materials/services from to establish his business.

[James Gomez]

researchgate.net/publication/242567776_Re-examining_the_Cuban_Health_Care_System_Towards_a_Qualitative_Critique
youtube.com/watch?v=cvmQHo8I9TI

(2007) Hirschfeld conducts a qualitative critique of the Cuban healthcare system in order to discern fact from fiction, and to give it a first-hand expert assessment.

Hirschfeld begins by stating: "In my own case, the overwhelmingly positive portrayal of Cuba in the medical anthropology and public health literature meant that I arrived on the island with very favorable expectations. I never anticipated my research would evolve into a critique."

Her initial expectation was to be pleasantly humoured, not to learn that Cuba had been hiding data and lying about the state of their healthcare system. She remarks: "After just a few months of research, however, it became increasingly obvious that many Cubans did not appear to have a very positive view of the health care system themselves. A number of people complained to me informally that their doctors were unhelpful, that the best clinics and hospitals only served political elites and that scarce medical supplies were often stolen from hospitals and sold on the black market. Further criticisms were leveled at the politicization of medical care, the unreliability of health data and the overall atmosphere of secrecy surrounding the prevalence of certain infectious diseases such as HIV and tuberculosis. Anecdotes of medical malpractice and bureaucratic mismanagement seemed common. The Cuban health care system, as described by Cubans in informal speech, seemed quite different from the Cuban health care system as described by North American social scientists and public health researchers"

TL:DR -- if you don't count most infant deaths then you'll have lower infant mortality.

[Jaxon Ramirez]

Remarking on the secrecy she found: "Public criticism of the government is a crime in Cuba, and penalties are severe. Formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me. As a result it can be very difficult for foreign researchers or other outsiders to perceive popular dissatisfaction, and few Cubans are willing to discuss dynamics of power and social control in a forthright manner" — the Cuban government blocks free speech about everything, but these matters are of special note.

Beyond the fake image of Cuba propounded by the dictatorship, the reality is far more dismal: material shortages and inefficiencies, politicised health and healthcare, forced abortions, false statistics (for instance, not counting babies that die shortly after birth as having lived at all, so as to reduce official mortality rates), criminalised dissent and protest, denials of individual rights, and outright denial of care for many of those not involved in the party alongside many other problems that have come to necessitate black market care in many areas.

Remarking on the lies propagated by the Cuban state: "When issues of state power and social control are factored into the analysis, it becomes possible to see how Cuba’s health indicators are at least in some cases obtained by imposing significant costs on the Cuban population — costs that Cuban citizens are powerless to articulate or protest, and foreign researchers unable to empirically investigate."

[Austin Bennett]

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[Jace Wright]

>facebook memes are now facts

[Joshua Allen]

nice song

[Cameron Evans]

youtube.com/watch?v=-mWtwoWB3XI

[Easton Ortiz]

>ANYTHING THAT IS NOT COMMUNISM IS CAPITALISM

my god we've reached propaganda levels which shouldn't even be possible

[Logan Hall]

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[Blake Morgan]

>Hitler was not a Marxist in

So, he was either a Marxist or a liar. I know he was a liar from other instances of lying, so let's keep it up.

[Gavin Campbell]

>Hmm, they collectivised..
> we note DEGREES of collectivism and socialisation

Are you contradicting yourself, or are you articulating yourself poorly? Collectivisation as a principle has been practiced on an off since the 1870s it is no more inherently socialist than universal healthcare is, it especially makes sense for a state that is preparing for war within six years to make use of it. It is simple pragmatism, the Nazis concessions towards the Mittelstand, the Reich Food Law concessions towards Farmers, and the treatment of the Agrarian and Industrial Elite was profoundly unsocialist. Everything had to benefit the state yeah, but you were free to make profit, and not everyone was equal.

Arguing over what Hitler said is pointless considering the man changed his mind over what his views were several times before breakfast each morning

[Brody Butler]

Go back to /leftypol/