I will now solve the gay little Epicurean argument that tries to "prove" that God "can't exist."

I will now solve the gay little Epicurean argument that tries to "prove" that God "can't exist."

Behold:

Evil is illusory. There is no evil.

Don't think so? Explain to me then, what is evil?

Pain? Pain is only a signal within an organism meant to inspire action (to protect itself).

>wahhh i feel pain therefore God is malevolent wahhhh
Grow up.

Death? Death and decay are as much a part of life as birth and growth and beauty. There would be no birth without death, no beauty without ugliness.

>wahhh why do we have to die mommy wahh i just want to live forever wahh
This is you.

Suffering? Again, suffering is a tell from the creative forces of our world that there is a WAY (to good life, to success, to enlightenment) and that the sufferer is straying from that path. How would life survive as is without fear, anxiety, guilt, and so forth? What do these "negative" emotions do but lead us to happiness, sobriety, and justice?

>wahhh im not happy all the time, im just gonna kill myself there is no god wahhh i just want to suck on mammy's tit forever and ever
You again.

There is no such thing as pure evil, and all returns to God eventually. Suffering and pain, after they haved served their use in our life are resolved in death, and so where does the "evil" go then? It just disappears? No, it was never there to begin with. Mortality is a fact of life and part of its nature of life.

All is only love; all creation bears the mark of a creator who imparted his love into the whole universe. The very beating of your heart is evidence of God's good will toward you, maybe listen to it once in a while.

That's a lot of strawmans user. Have you read the greeks?

I'm not misrepresenting any arguments here. My logic is infallible. See

Meanwhile in Heaven
>Humans think they're people lmao
>I wish God would just like us rain fire down on these fucking monkeys
>I fucking hate race traitors like Lucifer #GiveTheFruitTasteTheBoot

You seem to conflate suffering with the natural order. While suffering CAN and IS part of the natural order, it can also be in defiance of it.
>inb4 you believe everything is part of the natural order

hi john

>some things are not part of the natural order?

Whence did them come, my friend?

>I will now solve
Another religious nut-job who has to play all kinds of mental gymnastics to convince himself that the dumbest, most irrational stupidities even conceived by the mind of man actually make sense. You're worshipping a jewish false-flag psyop that was intended to destroy Europe.
Good goy.

>Evil is illusory. There is no evil.

Well bucko, then why does your holy book operate with the term, then?

Genesis 2:9
The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

>Pain?
No. Nobody is saying pain itself is evil.

However, preventable pain that is inflicted intentionally on an unwilling victim is most definitely evil.

>Death? Death and decay are as much a part of life as birth and growth and beauty. There would be no birth without death, no beauty without ugliness.

There is no reason there couldn't be birth without death. And given sufficient technological progress, we'd have a fuck ton of space to accommodate everyone - the universe.

>wahhh why do we have to die mommy wahh i just want to live forever wahh
You tell that to the orphans, the widows and people whose life fell apart after the love of their life died.

>Suffering?
As with pain, context matters. Unnecessary suffering that is unnecessary and inflicted against the will of the victim is a bad thing.

>There is no such thing as pure evil.
Ok. Explain the devil.

>All is only love
Well, I sure as hell am glad that I didn't get the 'love' that is freezing and starving to death while fighting for survival in chaos, as humans did for hundreds of thousands of years.

>destroy europe

Your whole argument falls apart because God promises to stand against evil and he does not.

start with the greeks man

I've seen a beheading video of a terrorist decapitating a child with a dull knife.

Wtf do you call that?

There may be different contexts for the word "evil." In my argument I am referring more to a "pure" evil which draws its power from a source separate from God, which is impossible. The context that it is used in the Bible may be different, as in a betrayal of God, but which does not make God malevolent.

I've seen a video of a live Zebra losing its entrails as it tries to run away from a Hyena who is goring a hole in its rear end. What's your point?

If God was so perfect his underlings wouldn't have rebelled against him in the first place.

Hey nice church.
Now for argument's sake imagine what we could have accomplished by the time of the renaissance if it hadn't been for 1000 years of illiteracy and self-imposed mental-retardation. But by all means, keep believing that your jew on a stick is going to save you.

I can't believe you justified child sacrifice.

This thread is over.

God is real, so is evil...

... but you're a fucking asshole and you have no friends. KYS.

that was part of Gods plan you dummy

>There is no evil.
evil is opposite of God

Sure it was. And who's plan is God a part of? Men.

The Jews hated Jesus and his message.

Step 1: Create tons of slaves, make it so about half are prone to hate me afterwards
Step 2: Make an universe because why not
Step 3: Make imperfect being so they can worship me
Step 4: Have half my underlings try to rebel against me
Step 5: Have the rebels torment my future worshipers
Step 6: ???
Step 7: GODLY PROFIT

Is that what they told you?

God cannot oppose itself. What stands apart from God eventually returns to God.

Trying to prove/disprove God through logic seems equally stupid to me.

That's what they do.

how can we be heroes and conquerors when god does all the work for us?

Didn't think anyone on Sup Forums would get so easily triggered.

since the creation of time God knew the end of this world, he's outside of this time, we are living our time now at our own pace, he knows whats for us here

people use the name of God for their own gain, Jesus warns us about it, what's new

Even Satan?

The "evil" being talked about isn't what a Christian thinks of as evil. The argument doesn't work if people try to apply it to Christianity, because suffering =/= evil to a Christian.

Then why create it in the first place?

Where do you think Satan came from?

The dude is trying to say that it's godly to kill children or that the people who sacrifice children will also go to heaven.

That's some terrorist level shit.

>>infallible
Wewlad

Which begs the question, then why create God?
>Ohh no, but God has always been!
No, friend, the universe has always been. If there is a God he is only part of it, just like Satan and all his other minions.

who knows, why allow Satan to go wild and not stop him right there?

i think God want to test us and take the most aproved for himself

the Bible hints about the next step of this plan

So Satan opposes God, but nothing opposes God since it all came from Him, and all the times Satan does something to fuck up God's creation in reality is just God false flagging us because... reasons?

I don't think that's what he's saying. I think he's saying all things in the universe are literally made up of and from God. Therefore it is impossible for something to be (not)God or ungodly.

Why are you attempting to deconstruct somebodies critique of religion by arguing the very rules those religions operate via don't exist? Typical hamburger education people/

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

>there would be no birth without death

That's wrong though

Even if people never died ever then birth would still happen.

>is just God false flagging us because... reasons?
this

The Epicurean rhetoric does not outright exclude the existence of a God.
A malevolent God could very well exist under his rhetorical model, as well as one that is simply uncaring. Also, a God with limited powers could exist.
The old testament quite clearly portrays God as spiteful and malevolent, so relax, your faith is largely unchallenged by his statements.
Unless you're one of these cumbaya africa orphan feeding cuck chirstians, in which case, yes, this argument completely blows you the fuck out forever as a worshipper of essentially a prehistoric Mary Sue character.

No, where do things that exist come from if they're not part of the natural order?
It should be a fairly simple question to answer, unless of course everything that exists IS part of the natural order.

If God is an infinite being. How can an infinite being create something separate from itself?

I didn't say everyone goes to heaven, nor did I say bloodshed was godly. But no creation of the world is without the seed of God, and therefore nothing is completely without godliness, even the most savage terrorist. He will return to God, too, not as a transcendent soul but as matter.

Because he fucking hates that shit.

I try to rid myself of evil all the fucking time.

It's what I'm doing right now.

That ability in and of itself is evidence that there's something fucky going on.

You try convincing 7 billion people that evil doesn't exist.

And here is were we start to arrive at the logical limits that demonstrate that we are dealing with people trying to rationalise the moronic fairy-tales of a sick and twisted, primitive desert-dwelling folk.
nice trips

Ehh, playing devil's (Or God's) advocate here but infinite doesn't really mean all-encompassing. For example, there are infinite natural numbers but negative numbers exist and are just as infinite. There are varying degrees of infinity and you can always come up with things outside the last set of infinity.

My question is too difficult for you I see, so you've resorted to name calling.

There are people who enjoy causing pain and suffering to others. Pain and suffering itself isn't evil, but enjoying the act of inflicting it is.

What has the power to unify with God has the power to resist it also, but it cannot resist it forever (this is my point). Satan is total resistance to God, but his strength is infinitely lesser, because ultimately the force of the cosmos will sweep up everything in its tide. And even those who betrayed God and chose not to evolve owe him their existence and all their power.

I know man, fuck the muslims for destroying egypt and plundering all the western worlds resources and destroying their trade routes.

Without their constant warmongering we would not have had a dark ages and the catholic monks wouldnt have needed to transcribe/take as many great works and books as possible from the great libraries before the fucking ragheads burned it down.

The world would almost be better without arabs.

Death precedes life.

i dont get your point, in this reality he made everything from himself, the big bang could be a good representation

It's weird. Seems like you've combined new age stuff with Christianity.

Doesn't really answer the question. Unless you're saying God is not of an infinite nature and fallible.

Who said I'm trying to rationalize anything in the terms of the Abrahamic religions?

That's true. But you're talking about a concept. Not something that occupies physical space.

That still doesn't explain why resistance exist in the first place. You can't have God be perfect and at the same time be opposed by his own creations. What could happen is that it is all powerful but not omniscient, think of Azathoth from Lovercraft Mythos.

It definitely could be. I don't get what you don't get.

never in my life have I been more certain of what someone looks like without having seen them

You're dead already.

Stop trying to spread your death.

What makes god malevolent, however, is unwillingness preventing unnecessary suffering.

edgy

>Explain to me then, what is evil?

The opposite of good.

>What is good?

The opposite of evil.

This is where you realize that if you do away with evil you do away with good because you end up with a tautology.

It's not name-calling at all, it's calling a spade a spade. Any logical thinker can read through the bible and again and again run into plot-holes, self-contradictions and sheer superstitious drivel. you may not like me and others calling it that but that's really what it is.
>inb4 allegorical references to truisms

You want to be evil so bad. Might I suggest that you take your comfy ass to a war torn village?

Why you making all these strange assumptions. When did I say I want to be evil?

that's not what Jesus says, this life is to suffer and endure, grow up
it differs from liberals atheist that want to prevent every bit of suffering and be babies all their life, living off the state

To be fair we can't yet define our morality without resorting to appeal of authority or appeal to force. But that doesn't disprove the existence of morality, for example, we all can agree that torturing children for the hell of it is "evil"

You're just looking for an argument.

I wish I could be as bored as you.

Ok great. So now what is God?

Aren't both new age stuff and christianity part of the natural order?

Deliberately inflicting pain (ie not an accident) is an extension of inner pain. Inner pain is a symptom of complications and missteps in life. Just like a river can become a swamp, full of pestilence and unseemly things, a human can become a tangled mess of despair which has become so toxic to growth and beauty that it destroys whatever comes near it. But, again, it too will go to God one day.

nicely put

I'm being 100% honest. I have literally no clue what you're talking about.

Though strangely a long time ago I remember having a similar conversation with a Christian and they had a similarly unexplained hostile reaction

Agentic evil is different from natural evil.

OP's argument essentially says natural evil is not really evil but us being whiney bitches.

There is obviously agentic evil otherwise the term evil would not exist. This being said, what is outlined by human evil is simple and yet at the same time complex.

On the one hand it includes morals and customs.

if we use the OT for an example, the Jews had hundreds of customs around cleanliness which where related to sin/holiness and were part of this cultural form of evil/goodness. They also had other moral laws like the 10 commandments which superseded these customs.

By the time the NT comes around god is saying "i have come to fulfill the law" meaning "its not what goes in a man but what comes out of him that makes him evil" So the whole part of leviticus with the shrimp and pork gets thrown out because evil cannot come from them but the heart. In a way the fulfillment changes from being merely obedient to gods direct law, to being one who lives in as though they were the laws of the universe. That is, for "thou shall not kill" The spirit would have to be so gentle that thoughts of murder never enter for the person to have "fulfilled the law" in following christ.

This points to human evil being directly tied to mans conscience as well as certain higher principles ultimately tied to the 10 commandments through the golden and silver rules (do unto others ect and love god above all . the silver rule fortifies the gold)

There are also some exceptions to this rule that interestingly deal with the natural order. Unlike shrimp, the OT and NT both speak against homosexuality. This may be directly due to its infertile nature which looking at the OT and its focus on survival, does place survival as a kind of 'lower' virtue. Lower because its important but less important than the higher virtues of fulfilling gods law in the way of christ.

Nonetheless natural evil cannot be true evil. Only human evil.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be suffering, though.

What I'm saying is that if god didn't design the world to be free of unnecessary suffering, he is not all-good.

I'll pray for you.

>unwilling to stop evil means He is malevolent
>what is evil
>I expected a hugbox not war

What a faggot

/thread

>Bicurus

Made me laugh

Resistance to god is a finite thing. God is infinite. Finite things are by nature part of a spectrum. Harder and softer. Beautiful and ugly. Imbalance in life and balance. Resistance to God and unification with him are different paths that enable evolution. The unfolding of the cosmos is a changing, a transformation. Therefore what resists, is bound to time, thus it is not infallible, not infinite, and so it is encapsulated in God.

Theoretically everything can be part of natural order.

The problem with all this, trying to prove or disprove God via logic, is that it requires we understand what the goal or purpose of life is.

Thanks. You should probably pray for self reflection too.

What about events caused by random chance?

Getting killed often isn't the fault of the victim and certainly does not allow for growth.

Nothing is unnecessary if the law of cause and effect is true. Everything is done out of necessity. A man who has lost himself to a dark power is still acting out of necessity, only it is the dark power which is doing the acting and not the man.

he did create the world like that, when we were walking along side with God
but we didn't pass the first test and got separated from God
and now we are here, at the end it says we will be like the begining tho

This has the writing style and prose of a somthing awful article circa 2003

The idea that there is no good or evil runs counter to religion. You basically just reinforced the argument that you were trying to refute.
If you try to prove the existence of God through logic and reason you will always lose.

Brah, the garden of eve story is a metaphor for growing up. It's not literal.

God is good and therefore good has no opposite. What is "good" in our lives is that which models itself after the timelessness of God. What is "evil" is that which does not, but which is ultimately only a temporary resistance and thus illusory.

>Caring about this low energy argument

Epicurus himself believed in God. The evil problem doesn't prove that God doesn't exist

It's evil to justify the lack of evil.

Just saying.

RANDOM CHANCE IS PART OF LIFE FFS. YOU PREPARE FOR IT. LITERALLY NOT RELIGIOUSFAG HERE. THE ARGUMENT IS SIMPLY FALSE. SHIT HAPPENS, YOU GROW. TOO MUCH LIBERAL BS EXPECT EVERYTHING TO BE DONE FOR YOU. THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE'RE HAVING HERE.

DO HONESTLY BELIEVE WE'RE LIVING IN A CREATION. WHETHER DEITY OR SIMULATION/ALIENS, WHATEVER. THIS IS A CREATION 100% NOT A COINCIDENCE

See

God is.

>Theoretically
Seems like you shying away from your own conclusions. Perhaps you realize where it leads. Perhaps you should read epicurus

These threads are always funny. It's always the same circular arguments about god being infinite and so on. It reminds me of the flat-earth threads where these guys go (literally) to the ends of the Earth to try to prove to you that the spherical model is a lie.
>hurr, God had to test mankind because free-will
No dummies, God created mankind and free-will because he's actually Satan and relishes our suffering.

maybe who knows

Events caused by random chance are not evil.