This for me is a complicated one I don't work a minimum wage job, and I heard arguments on both sides that seem convinving and factual but I just want some other people's perspective on this?
Extra thing I need to mention if raising the minimum wage won't help the poor because they don't have jobs what solutions could we do? I hear in Wetzels Pretzels in California the wage increase led to increase sales overall Phelps said.
I appreciate the feedback.
Should have proofread but I hate typing on the phone. Although hope you get my point.
Yeah, those poor faggots should go to university roflmao. COMMUNIST ANTI-SEMITES EXPECTING A FREE HAND-OUT.
*rubs hands*
Is David Card accurate or lying on his 2 decades of economic research?
Idk about anyone else, but if I owned an apartment building I would increase the rent automatically as a result of a minimum wage increase.
Get rid of the (((minimum wage))). Make all of the food service monkeys compete for tips.
Good meme but it doesn't satiate either sides argument ,I understand your point of view though. Fuck Antifa.
I don't know if you saw the fat guy try to give pespi to people but I spotted a rare pepe in the video, and the dude in the Siracha shirt was cool and accepted the pepsi, was the same guy who got hit in the head with the bikelock by the asshole that amazing people where able to put together the evidence and put him away.
Corporations should become accustomed to receiving less of their profits. If you make enough to pay everyone, keep the lights on, and have some left over you have made more than enough yet these corporations jew and skimp at every possible turn to further bloat their profits. We have been shown time and time again that we can't expect corporations to act responsible so we must regulate them.
As for the minimum wage, I do think it needs to be increased but GTFO with that $15 dollar bullshit. You should be making enough to get by on your own at a full time minimum wage job, not enough to start a family or other gay shit otherwise people would have no incentive to progress.
If we survive the next 100 years we may see the birth of the robotic workforce then we won't have to give a shit anymore.
People on this board dont know david card or alan kruger, they think labour market demand and supply are two static linear functions whose partial equilibrium creates a stable general equilibrium. lmfao
>Earn more money per hour/get lower tips
Yeah will totaly work
Compare the rates of inflation since the 1960s with the average or median wage in America and discover the not-so-shocking truth: Companies don't want to pay us fair wages but want to charge us out the ass for all living expenses.
"Those poor companies imagine if they had to pay roughly 40 percent of America fifteen dollars an hour! They would have to raise all their prices even more to compensate for having to spend .04% more on payroll! THINK OF THE CORPORATIONS!!!" - What a huge fucking joke. Trickle down economics.
Give the rich your money and they'll give it all back to you! Yes, haha, good goyim!
Companies and America have enough wealth that we could pay all of our citizens a solid fucking living wage and still have ample room for salaries. Our wealth as a nation has greatly increased since the fifties, our wages mostly stagnates, and inflation and the cost of living skyrocketed.
Sure the corporations are sitting on the majority of the wealth but you're a good goyim, aren't you? It doesn't matter that Seattle showed that a 15 dollar minimum led to a booming economy with more profits and no job loss because people had more than enough to spend... The poor companies had to cut their profits by .02 on average! :'( You don't want the companies to lose money, do you Goy? You trust the nation's wealth to be in the hands of corporations, don't you goy? You trust in Trickle down economics, right? Good goy! You'll see the results any day now.
In-N-Out pays 15 bucks an hour, store managers 100k yr, owner a billionaire.
Raise minimum wage - workers replaced by this
>replacing minimum wage workers with machines
>replacing the majority of your customer base with homeless and indigent
What could go wrong?
And on top of that, factory workers before and during the industrial revolution were told the same bullshit excuses about why a company making 100 million+ a year couldn't afford a dime instead of a nickel. "They'd have to raise prices to compensate to keep the insane, massive profit rate going! If they pay you a fair wage, then they'll go out of business!"
Good thing we live in the modern world and corporations would NEVER take advantage of a workforce by underpaying them and brainwashing them to think it's normal. History doesn't repeat because we live in the MODERN world, where companies look out for our best interests as a people!
I feel sorry for blue-pills that really believe the economy couldn't support a fifteen dollar an hour wage. It must feel lousy being a wage slave both in body and mind. A lot of loyalty for a hired gun.
Does the fact that there are two incomes per household now due to women essentially being forced into work apply? Wage growth/inflation could be half of what it was prior because the growth would be split over 2 people.
Also worth noting that for most low income jobs there is a glut of workers who can do them and therefore companies have no reason to view labor as a scarce resource. Keep the help wanted ad up long enough and eventually you will find someone who will work for what you offer.
...
Stand in a McDonalds and you'll have an eye-opening moment when you realize most people interact with the board, walk away shortly after, and just conveniently order at the register. There's even an extra shift to help idiots use the board - which no one does because it's so much fucking easier to just order through a person.
More like $17.50, but point taken.
There shouldn't be a minimum wage at all. A fixed minimum wage doesn't give more money to the workers, it takes more money from the employers which could be otherwise used elsewhere. Minimum wage inhibits the economic growth.
You're not really experienced with running a business I'm guessing
They sell a good product. Most In-n-out's I've been to are constantly busy.
Go back to plebbit you fuck
Go to a Wawa or Quick Check (NJ / PA convenience stores). Three or four people in a busy store, two running the cash registers, two fixing subs.
Look into Seattle. They raised minimum wage and employment actually went up. People that wouldn't get a job before, felt it was worthwhile to get a job.
Facts are that the 1% keep getting richer, while common people are getting fleeced by things like Obama care. Minimum wage hasn't budged in many years, but they keep piling on bills.
>le 1% are bad meme
Work harder.
You literally cannot do a federal minimum wage without fucking over small business. Minimum wage should be up to the cities and states who can adjust it to the cost of living of that area. I work just above minimum, and living within my means in a rural area means i live quite comfortably.
I don't agree with a minimum wage, not unless the nation's market is stringently controlled in order to prevent inflation as a result of it. The truth is if an employer cannot afford Labour and society expects its members to live and care for themselves, then the employers should be expected to compensate individuals for their time (especially if these individuals spend over half of their waking life in work, and the other half preparing for it).
Stringent control is impossible and just spells big state and forced Labour unless a nation is completely self sufficient.
With that in mind, a free market does make more sense, but you will undoubtedly get wage compression from business owners trying to cut costs by reducing lower position wages, inter business professional collusion, and cheap foreign Labour.
A fair way to run a business would be share in the profit. Remove wages and give everyone a share of the profit based on the amount and level of work they do; I used to work as a chef, so if you look at the kitchen alone, the owner gets say 30%, the head chef 25%, the sous chef 15%, the two cdp get 10 and the two commis get 5. This is assuming you set aside 30 percent of gross profit toward paying yourself and staff.
It's how I would like to run a business as I think it would make everyone happier and more productive, problem is I can see it backfiring if we have a bad month or two and some shovelling employee who has been on double what their peers has would go to the state and make a complaint they haven't been paid enough this month.
Adjusted minimum wage for inflation from the fifties would be over forty dollars. Even if it were cut in half, twenty dollars would be a fair living wage.
The wealth of a nation's people should not be viewed as a resource. The people make the country strong because without people the nation is unworthy of existing. Surely we've all come to this conclusion with our studies of Nazi Germany and Rome. Instead of effectively working for the people, the federal government has disposed of the responsibility by letting companies turn modern American society and culture into a debt-ridden, endless indentured servitude.
Of course, all of this implies something deeply wrong with our government and it's corruption through corporations, effectively making it a "corporatism". But the sooner we get more people to shake off that notion that these poor widdle megacompanies that trade, in a day, more than your entire family ever make in your life, the closer we become to taking back our Homeland.
You really want semen in your food don't ya?
/thread
I own two used gaming stores in my city that compete with Gamestop, Vintage Stock, and some other local store. 8 years on my first location and 6 years on my second. Good guess though
>Wage growth/inflation could be half of what it was prior because the growth would be split over 2 people.
sure from a functional standpoint but then that means accepting that we are simply being paid what it costs to live rather than a "fair" wage. I think you hit the nail on the head of the mechanics of why this happened but id call it a very unfortunate consequence that needs to be rectified rather than a good or normal thing
Shouldn't minimum wage keep up with inflation, if nothing else?
oh so we just completely solve inflation while still keeping a malleable money supply that doesnt get destroyed during times of economic turmoil. Im open to suggestions
hmm...
Repeal affirmative action. Problem solved.
Do your think people just sit on the money now that almost half of the work force is being paid more than starvation wages? Seattle private business owners saw an insane amount of revenue come in once everyone had enough money to not just spend on bills. More money in circulation actually helped small business. Imagine that.
The real redpill is that both theories are true and instead the fundamental system below is broken.
I've long held this theory that modern capitalism only works when an xx% of the population is poor and there is NOTHING you can do to prevent it, if you raise the minimum wage then the buying power goes up but so does the living cost, some of those factors adjust slower than others but it will inevitably cancel out.
So the real redpill is understanding that propably can't prevent a UBI if we want to get rid of poverty for good and also accept the loss in productivity that comes with it.
Basically we need to accept that the only viable economic system that leads to everyone having a livable income is a VERY slowly growing one, something that the jew kikes will never accept, because muh profits.
As long as we allow the jew kikes to dictate that profits > stability, we'll keep running in circles.
That isn't fair for the job-makers.
DUMB PHONE POSTER
GET OUT
millenials are completely out of touch with what a labor union is and whats its purpose is
there was a time when the majority of workers in the US were blue collar factory workers. back then unions were a nesacity
back in the 80s working at a supermarket was a $17 hour job (probably about $40 an hour now, Im too lazy to look it up). but Walmart pays all of its employees between $10 and $12 an hour despite the fact that Walmart is the richest company in the world, earning more than all the oil companies. yet no one who works at Walmart has any idea that there should be something like a union to give them career level wages
we are regressing to a 3rd world country of no middle class and only rich and poor workers
kill jews
problem ends
I support minimum wage, but it should not be consistent across industries and it should be increased incrementally instead of jumping right to $15.
>Used to
So a failure in practice but a professional successor in an armchair.
I find it difficult to believe you would support raising minimum wage. You could just simply pay all your employees above minimum wage yourself. Why didn't you double all your employees wages, you greedy fat cat?
funny, im posting from my own used vidya/electronic store. I sure as shit could never replace my employees with machines, job is too complicated and nuanced. A machine would be pretty bad at doing something simple like judgeing the condition of a PS2 and thus how much should be paid for it.
Maybe in a lot of years, but for the forseeable future i couldnt imagine replacing my labor
Check again pal, there is no "used to"
I already pay my two employees above minimum as well as allowing them the option to buy merchandise from me at 50% retail because I know having happy, productive employees is just as important as having happy customers you literal 1 post retard
>3rd world country of no middle class and only rich and poor workers
more like Brazil which is 2nd world
but yeah you are basically right
unless deffinitions have changed 2nd world means communist. Is brazil currently communist? I didnt think so but i cant say i keep up with brazillian politics
Raising minimum wage actually aids in the destruction of the middle class.
Our system is similar to Vintage Stock's
You tell the computer what it is and then determine quality based on factors I've decided and the computer tells you what to pay for it. At first it was up to the buyer's description but I've hired a couple of retards in my time; it's better this way
>lee r3ddit faggot
You've got to go back, Mohammad
desktop posting is so 2006, don't you know the current year?
Austrian school is proven wrong again and again.
The digits have spoken.
go ahead explain why you would think that
reminder: every poor country in the world subscribes to the idea that lower wages mean stronger economy
ah, sry looking, into it: In German 3rd world became "Entwicklungsland" therefore those terms had other meaning to me; in the English frame you are right.
>judgeing the condition of a PS2 and thus how much should be paid for it
easy. consoles aren't worth shit.
lol at a brick and mortar "electronic store"
Ive worked as a fast food manager before. Where I live 7.25 is the starting salary. By the time you factor in labor, food cost, etc, the store profits boils down to a little bit of change per order. Overtime that change adds up, but its a quantity over quality business. You need to sell a lot of food in short amounts of time to make good profit. Fast food already revolves around the cost of labor. If your labor % is bad, you send people home, regardless of if you are understaffed. Raising the minimum wage even a little bit skyrockets the cost of labor. When your local McDonalds doubles the cost of your cheeseburger and you wait twice as long for it because they only have a few people working you can thank the liberals.
So you support the law because it doesn't effect you in any way, yet hurts others.
You'd rather young teens not be able to get a first job, or that they have to work unpaid internships only.
Quite selfish. If they can get paid more than minimum wage for the job, they will leave for higher pay at a whims notice. Over regulation of the market is not good for anyone except people trying to destroy competition under the guise it helps those in need, when in reality it punishes both.
so what, shitty fast foods who can't be profitable with paying minimum wage should just shut down
What the fuck are you talking about??
Go home newfag, we're full
They are profitable at the minimum wage. The whole system is based around $7.25
Globalist Capitalism is an inherent contradiction because it wants the buyers to buy more and the employees to be paid less, of course in the name of profit. Yet the employee and the buyer are the same person.
It would work perfectly for weakening a nation though.
so you effectivly have a checklist that your employees go by and price is calculated from a set of specific factors? It feels like that would lead to either a hilariously complex checklist or you would take a lot of shit systems that slip through the cracks.
idk though ive only had my store for 4 years and im jsut happy to have employess that know their shit and dont buy crap. took me a while to find them though heh
The only people hurt by a minimum wage increase are businesses that perform to poorly to exist. Let them die if they cannot compete.
More money=more customers=more profit=more locations=more more profits
doesn't matter. those jobs that people work in min wage will be automated soon anyhow.
then we'll start having homeless problems.
>Over regulation of the market is not good for anyone except people trying to destroy competition under the guise it helps those in need
ok thats true, but i think a lot of people contend that a minimum wage is far from over-regulation
GO VISIT ANY SHIT HOLE COUNTRY AND JIMMY CHOUX,NIKES,ROLEX,KFC,MCDONALDS ARE ALL THE SAME PRICES THOUGH ?
You act as if raising minimum wage magically creates more resources than what we have now.
You aren't supposed to support a family while working at mcdonalds for minimum wage. Even if you are uneducated and unskilled there are lines of work you can climb up over time to make a decent living if you are willing to work hard.
This is simply the democratic idea that everyone is helpless and unskilled and cries for the "competent" government to jump in and save them as a humanitarian effort. In reality the regulations hurt all businesses especially small businesses who don't have the capital to absorb the cost.
It's mostly based on the cosmetic condition of the system and then it's tested to see whether it works. We also buy broken shit and I use those parts to repair our inventory as well as repairs for customers. Not a bad setup considering I learned all this shit through youtube.
Several possibilities:
>get innovative (automation)
>less profit
>shut down
I don't think having fast cheap burgers or whatever is a good enough reason to warrant a slavewage system
.You really need to think deeply about why each on of your $1 cheeseburgers are netting 4 cents of profit each. What sort of business sets up a business model like that? Do you think a small business with one location would operate like that? Use your fucking noodle.
>Even if you are uneducated and unskilled there are lines of work you can climb up over time to make a decent living if you are willing to work hard.
oh, I see, this is housewife economics
>huur, I had to pay that plumber guy $500 to fix my sink, why cant everyone work hard and get these high paying jobs
well the fact that you are a woman who has probably never worked a job and lived off of a man, its understandable that you would think that *hard work* magically produces high paying jobs. What you are not aware is that most high paying blue collar jobs are high paying because of unions.
Is it not? Look at the cost of living in different states, and look at their average wages.
Without any regulation somehow they are self balancing, how is this?
While it may be appealing to just get it in writing that balance will always be achieved, almost inevitably in practice the good nature of the laws is exploited to twist the arms of those it promises to help.
Anyone in America who has an apartment isn't making minimum wage in the first place.
Dude, we all get that McDonalds isn't supposed to be able to support a family. Disregarding that over half of America makes or hovers right around minimum wage, forty years ago working at a fast food place was enough to support yourself and for one man to support a family on a budget. We are fucked nation if we condemn half of our population to suffer as a lower class and only a certain group to "work harder" and occupy those 30% "career jobs". What happened to that national wealth? Are you so cucked that you believe the "economy" is simply lowering your wages while the corporations to shattering records of profit? Will you live the rest of your life like a boot-licking dog or begin to open your eyes to the perils of treating work and wages like a dog fighting competition run by fat overlords?
Being a Master Plumber actually takes a lot of education and is a high skill job.
It is not housewife economics.
Truck drivers and construction workers are low skills jobs anyone can do. The longer they work and the more experience they gain the more opportunities they have to work their way up the chain. If they commit to their career they have a plan to keep moving up.
This is actually American economics, and you are actually a democrat who is used to selling people shitty ideas and profiting off the exploitation of those who actually work hard.
To me the problem is more that now working in McDonalds or any fastfood Mc Job is now being viewed as a career path and it wasn't before.. It used to be a stop gap that highschool or college students would work between studies before they go on to something better .. To me working in McDonalds isnt sposed to be someones life work.
Fuck slackers that work at McDonalds and expect more in handouts because they think that they deserve a living wage or whatever.
Mcdonalds is a free ride for lazy people why should they get paid as much as even a laboring job
>fast food is more expensive
>implying that's a bad thing
ive kept mcdonalds stock for a few years now. if they fuck with profits in this manner, ill shit in every fryer personally
It's complicated. Depends on the cost of living, culture, the labor market, etc.
For the sake of argument, there's two types of workers. Those who work to live, and those who work to earn extra money. A teen can work for 8 bucks an hour, because 90% of that money goes straight to his or her pocket, but someone who needs to pay for their living expenses most definitely couldn't make it on that wage.
Also, if you draw up a list of all the companies and type of jobs which are strictly only paying minimum wage. You start to notice the majority of them are manual labor, retail, food-food, etc. type of jobs where the barrier of entry is so fucking low any retard could do them.
I'm pretty sure a study came out which showed the biggest winners of any minimum wage increase were immigrants --- hispanics illegal and legal.
Taking all of this into account, the minimum wage isn't a bad idea but it's pretty much a transfer of wealth from those earning more than minimum wage to those earning exactly minimum wage. What do you get for your money? Probably not much, a little more stability here and there.
>Being a Master Plumber actually takes a lot of education and is a high skill job.
>It is not housewife economics.
plumbing takes no education, the reason its high paying is that it directly serves white collar upper middle class so its one of the very few blue collar jobs left that you can make career level salary
>Truck drivers and construction workers are low skills jobs anyone can do.
try driving your minivan to a construction site and look at who is actually working there, you'll see a white foreman and 50 illegal aliens. trucking jobs are being handed out to illegals to
just stay on your couch and watch your story, dont go babbling on message boards about something you know nothing about
>. We also buy broken shit and I use those parts to repair our inventory as well as repairs for customers
this might be the defining difference, ive stayed away from making repair a big part of my shop. I do phone screen preplacement because shit shit is easy and makes bank, but do you find its really profitable to repair shit like ps2's? Always seemed like the labor costs would eat into any profitability real fast
2 small Egg McMuffins here cost $9.16, shit is already happening. California of peace....
Raising minimum wage is treating a symptom instead of addressing the actual issue.
Also if minimum wagers have it so bad what do you say about people who are unemployed unable to get any work at all?
Is this simply a case of a child is crying so we need to burn the constitution? No matter how great a country is it will always have poor, homeless, and disease. That's no reason to make laws to punish people for the misfortune of others. Robin hood mentality is the entryway to socialism.
Your argument is essentially: "If everybody cannot have nice things, Nobody can have nice things". You should feel guilty for your success, and feel pitiful for those less fortunate than yourself. So much so that we should continually pass more laws which do not cause any relief to the situation but punish others trying to start their own companies or enter into the workforce.
Why not instead we distribute our wealth to the entire world evenly? Space and energy is also based on inequality. There are only tiny pockets which contain stars and warmth. The vast majority of infinitely expanding space is void of energy and matter which is inherently unfair. Instead we should simply accelerate entropy approaching the heat death of the universe so that less fortunate areas of space can be raised by .01 of a degree so that everyone will be better off.
You must be crippingly retarded, honestly. Who do you think runs McDonalds? Who do you think plans deliveries, logistics, and operations for a company that nets billions of dollars each year? You guys advocate "hard work" will get you a good living wage but fail to recognize the most obvious reality of one of the richest companies in the world. You cannot comprehend the reality of starting from the bottom at one of the companies most able to pay a good wage, beating your competition, and moving up to McDonalds corporate. That says to me that you just have no fucking clue what you're talking about and miss the most basic of real-world applications.
>Plumbing takes no education
HAHAHAHAHA found the underage liberal brat. I stopped reading there go get a fucking education.
oh yeah the market is wonderful at achieving balance, thats likely one of the reasons its been such a successful economic system. But when a solid chunk of your population is working low skill jobs you run the rick of that balance point getting too low for people to handle. Market price may dictate someone is paid $2.00 an hour but when you get enough ot those people all the sudden revolution starts fomenting.
You just cant have a democratic political system alongside an economic system that is ok with utterly screwing the vast majority of the populace, heads will end up on pikes.
Construction worker here, the only ones that are illegals/mexicans tend to be the landscapers and pavers.. Construction has tons of white people, and I got paid $75/hr today being one of those white guys.
I went to KFC yesterday, got a large kentucky burger meal plus a large chips for wife and son to share.
>That comes to $17.90 drive through to the next window thanks.
Yay high minimum wage
>David Card
he's a moron
denying the law of supply and demand
is heterodoxy
>Construction worker here, the only ones that are illegals/mexicans tend to be the landscapers and pavers..
this is bullshit, and anyone here who actually leaves the house to look for work know it
We already have a minimum wage. So stop trying to twist the argument into arguing about no restrictions being as harmful as too many restrictions.
Do you work for minimum wage yourself?
>$9.16
>2 egg McMuffins
>288 calories per McMuffin = 576
This should be illegal. I fucking hate fast food restaurants, especially McDonalds.
My post has nothing to do with socialism and all to do with the free market's modern product of more and more minimum wage jobs encompassing well over half of the nation's jobs without the standard of living that was in place forty years ago. I guess if I were to make a charicature of your post I would say that you are advocate of supporting the free market even if means that 90% of the country lives in crippling poverty? You would still be working your call-center job making enough money to buy two banana bunches this week and you'll be saying "there are still people worse off than me. If I work hard I may even be able to afford three banana bunches. The free market provides for me. It is clearly the best system because there are still people who work for only one banana bunch a week."
You're so full of shit it's incredible. How long does it take an employee to make a hamburger and fries? About 30 in 15 minutes?
I'm surprised you haven't been shit on for this with some bullshit. Because you're absolutely right.
Why should the government get to decide what the minimum I can work for is?
Literally close to what it costs at KFC with a ~$8 minimum wage. I guess it's pretty funny being an Aussie. How's your credit score? Is the cost of even the most basic apartment 80% of your monthly income? If you work hard you can get that down to 70%.