Is taxation theft?

Well, Sup Forums, is it?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_company
unsafeschools.org/the-australian-safe-schools-program-la-trobe-university/
mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Taxation is implicitly voluntary.

>Taxation is voluntary
>Decide to stop paying taxes
>Government imprisons me

>Taxation is voluntary
>Decide to stop paying taxes
>Government imprisons me
>Don't like it? move

It's either that or my cute little leach sucks it out of me while complaining that I'm useless and she'll find a much better man any day now. T b q h senpai senpai I'd rather see the gubmint take it.

>Mafia rules over people with the use of force and threats
>Instead of attempting to fix the problem, you can just move and let the immoral practice continue on for other people to suffer under :)

Spoken like a true coward

Taxes are the price for living in a civilized country. If you don't like it you can go live out in the woods, alone.
Hoever, we should have more say in what those taxes are spent on and be taxed at the absolute minimum it takes to keep things running. Welfare should only be for those who absolutely cannot work due to obvious physical or mental issues. We shouldn't be funding art museums, bailing out big businesses, or lining bureaucrat pockets. Taxes go to helping those who absolutely NEED help, our military, and maintaining our roads and government buildings and expansion.

It is

Do you vote for the mob boss?
Can you run for being the mob boss?
Can you go to court against the mob boss?
What service does a mafia offer you for taking your money? Beside not killing you?

>civilized
define

I see civilization as a product of our western values, that exist DESPITE gang members taking a large part of the cut, and putting a minor part of that into roads, and education factories.

I mean ISIS asks for taxes, and it does not really civilize them it seems.

Cuck

This is whats produced by brains that learn to only think of white flags.

That's not theft, that's robbery.
You dumb cunt.

>Taxes are the price for living in a civilized country
Governments do not create civilization. People do, the government just takes credit for it. Saying theft is necessary for a civilized society is an oxymoron as theft is not civilized. Also, there is not one function the government has that private parties can't do better (inb4 muh roads).

>If you don't like it you can go live out in the woods, alone
Moving away from the problem doesnt solve it. Say you take issue with how corrupt and pay2play the american government is, do you just move away or try to change it for the better?

We need taxes to fund the police, law system, infrastructure and military, which are all important and shouldn't be privatized.
Without the state to regulate this sort of thing, there would be nothing preventing me from shooting somebody because he owns me 10 dollars, or the guy's family from murdering me and everybody I know. Or from preventing ISIS from taking over my city.

But when they use the taxes for social programs that will never benefit you, and will instead further the problems in your society, then it's theft

>If you don't like it you can go live out in the woods, alone.
Well, that won't really stop people trying to collect taxes on you. You can't realistically divorce yourself from society

Taxation is not theft the leaders you elect passed laws. You had a say in it.
Taxation for welfare is because they are buying votes from people who do not pay taxes to dilute your vote!

I wouldn't mind paying it if it actually was put to good use. I like roads and schools, I don't like welfare (unless you're actually disabled) or over inflated government contracts.

Taxation is part of the social contract we enter in order to participate into a functional society.

You're free to go off-grid and go live in the woods, farm or hunt your food, and live away from other people, then you won't have to pay taxes.

What if they consent though?

question for libertarains: if you would have the option to not pay any taxes and you take it. but then you keep using public transportation, highways, hospitals, call the police ect. would it be ok for the gouverment to imprision you? cause you used services that you havent payed for and some might even argue violated the nap.

How about this one. If your on welfare you lose your right to vote! People against taxes would not have an arguement then.

What's preventing you from shooting the guy you owe 10 bucks is the private security company he can afford to pay since he has much more purchasing power when he isn't taxed out the ass. This private police would also be of much higher quality than the government issued police force since they would have to compete for customers.

yes

I hope this is just a bad bait. Taxation is crucial to maintain any kind of respectable society if you dont know that you shouldnt even be here discussing shit because you obviously dont know anything about how things work.

The whole private police thing is a retarded meme. The owner could effectively use it to impose his will if he stamps out competition.

Also, how do you not see the issue with competing police departments? It would lead to unsolved crimes and chaos.

taxation is the price we pay for civilization

If taxation is the same as theft, then why don't niggers fix up roads and build schools with the money they steal?

That would be a pretty good deal, honestly. The one flaw would be that government would still be there choking out alternatives to their services. I could be exempt from paying taxes, but there would be no private alternative for me to turn to since government has made those services illegal unless provided by them.

A good first step compromise would be allowing citizens to pay for the services they choose to use. So if I want the police's services, I could opt to pay 5% of my income. And then you could slowly open up for more private alternatives alongside this.

>But when they use the taxes for social programs that will never benefit you

healthcare and education fall into the same category

if you dislike it, i suggest finding another line to draw in the sand

>mass consent

A tax is a fine for doing good.
A fine is a tax for doing bad.

Using roadways funded by taxation, whether you've paid or not is acceptance of stolen goods

If those on welfare lose their right to vote. It would be a reason to not be on welfare

>Also, there is not one function the government has that private parties can't do better (inb4 muh roads).
Military force and border protection.
Management of nuclear arms.
Policing
welfare (for people who are actually disabled)
And the goverment assures that certain freedoms you have are protected. That's how government works, you sacrifice some of your freedoms and money to be assured protection from having ALL of your freedom and money taken. Don't like it, then go live in the wilderness.

In theory you're supposed to get something in return for your taxation.

I agree has to be some tax.
Those on welfare should lose the right to vote.
A reason to get off!

I see the state-funded schools on that socialist nigger-island taught you a lot about how competition and the free market works

>Private police departments would attract buyers by acting violent and providing shitty services durr

>Work 60 hours a week
>Everything overpriced
>Goverment cucks take 50% of my income

It's literally not worth working in current western society.

Just stay home and get that sweet NEET bux

that too seems like a rather meaningless line in the sand

why would you turn for a private alternative for the sake of private alternative? The amount of choice you have would still be limited to the amount of choice the market provides. If choice is the principle, then one is happy with 2 alternatives, if private ownership is the principle, then one doesnt value choice above it.

capitalism and most political systems think that values aren't in conflict with eachother, which is a wierd concepts for me. Both the left and right think they can get their cake and eat it too

as for the government choking out alternatives, that isn't a neccesary aspect of such systems, its just your worse case scenario. All countries i know of are mixed marked economies.

Well if you dont pay them enough they will
Private armed forces already exist they are called mercenaries and they obey the highest bidder

Not even Socialist and I went to an American college and private school.

Please enlightenment me as to how groups of armed people competing for money wouldn't cause issues. You're assuming people wouldn't engage in shitty practices, which laughable considering even if you look at the history of past corporations. You're also acting as if monopolies wouldn't form, and that's when customers really get jewed. If you're the one with the armed people it doesn't if someone thinks you're a bad business

I'm pro capitalism, it's just that policing id one thing that makes no sense to privatise.

that makes as much sense as saying that Kate Upton has a double standard because her husband sticking his dick in to her is consensual intercourse
but me sticking my dick in to her is sexual assault and rape or whatever

Lots of typos, but whatever, I'm on a phone.

>
>Do you vote for the mob boss?
OK, so 3 people in a room claim independence just like France or USA did, then they take a vote on taking the rich guys wallet. Is that moral?
>Can you run for being the mob boss?
Yes, I can shoot him and start being a boss myself.
>Can you go to court against the mob boss?
Can I go to court to not pay taxes and win?
>What service does a mafia offer you for taking your money? Beside not killing you?
Pic related

No its extortion.
But technically you wouldnt even own your stuff without the state allowing it so i suppose taxation is a compromise

If you do that you go to jail for trespassing. Or if you buy the land you owe property taxes which go up depending on what you do for improvements on the property. You can build a 150000 dollar house with you're own sweat and money and the government can snatch it away with a year of missed property taxes. Which they tax harder for you building the home on.

i see where you are going with this, but enforcing an economic system within a society is okey?
The system one ends up with is a rather democratic one, as no private person is able to enforce their given system without the agreement of others. What one essentialy ends up with is the original sense of libertarianism, not the corrupted american sense, where somehow economics is an agreed upon concepts, while everything else somehow is "enforced" unvulentary

Property is theft
Look it up user

Why is Santiago so shit? The infrastructure there was so bad, the sidewalks looked like they were only made to last a couple of years at most.

People with money don't use sidewalks here really.

It also has to do with lax zoning laws. People a lot of the times build right up to the street, which leaves no room for sidewalks. The roads are pretty good though.

Property is work.

Are you against all tax or just income
Other taxes Alcohol , tabacco , gas , Hotel, land

If the services you buy are a bad deal, you stop buying them.

A private security company wouldn't act agressive towards potential buyers, it would basically kill their business. And if they, in some fit of irrational rage, act violent, people can defend themselves with arms of their own and with the help of other companies who want who want to seize a share of the market. This defence is possible because the govt. no longer has a monopoly on violence. If your sitting government decides to act violently upon you today, what do you do? You can't do as much as you could've done in a society where there was no state monopoly on violence.

Explain please?

Everything you wrote is bullshit.
Why? Its already happened before and the results were shit
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_company

Theft is Porta Rico selling bonds. they can say they pay out at 600% when it does not mature for 7y and defaults in 2y

If they're the only company in town with the most firepower, it doesn't matter. They charge up the ass for protection and no one would do shit about it.

And even in your reasoning you basically proved my point. It would basically lead to the equivalent of turf wars in a lot of cases. A society like that seems very unstable.

property isn't theft , as it by definition can't be. No one owns the commons.

BUT. property isn't a real concept either. So who enforces it? The community.
Politics would benifit from science rather then philosophy. What the hell are natural "rights"
the concept of rights, is the same as the concept of theft or property. Its the community who enforces them, they are called artifical concepts (man made) not "natural" , nature laws can't be broken, humanities laws can, and we also have to punish them or rehabilitate people.

Lol do you even know what "Property is theft" even means. Like at least the wikipedia page or somehting?

Wealth is created by work. You buy a house based on work other have done. The bank gives you a loan based on thatt work. You then work to pay off that debt. your work created that value $$$.

If you take care of land it belongs to you. If you make a chare it belongs to you. If you earn money it belongs to you.
If you take care of youreselfe you belong to you.
>Kind of obvious desu.

Im not against taxes but of course i prefer them low and the money fairly well spent

Exactly.
You, sir, are red pilled

Well, maybe. I'm all for taking care of old people who contributed their whole lives, or somebody with cancer for free...
But then when you get to pay for some some fat fuck like boogie, or some faggot who has unprotected sex with strangers, or somebody who smokes 6 packs of cigarrets a day and who doesn't care about his own health. And there are a lot of people like that out there.
Same thing with education. It's great, until you get some cunt who wants to get somalian dildo crafting theory and expects to get a job.
There has to be a better way of dealing with those cases. Just making everything free leads to abuse.

Well, about private security, I can see it working in some cases. If I had a lot of money and paid some armed group to patrol Detroit, I could probably fix that shithole in a couple of years, better than any politician would do.
But then you would still need some sort of government body to regulate these groups, backed up by the army (which should never be private), otherwise it can turn to shit very fast. For example, somebody creates the islamic police force, to patrol their islamic neighbourhood, and then they go rouge and join ISIS and use all their expertise and weapons to terrorize the population. Then the other private groups would come in and start a civil war.

>>Don't like it? move

I'm not allowed to. In fact I'm supposed to report when i'm leaving the county. and Id be a felony for me to leave the state. Do you have any more lies?

no

The foundation of a business is providing something valuable. If you can't do that, your business fails. If the company decides to become criminal, you defend against them as you would against any criminal, which is much easier when the government does not have a monopoly on violence.

Monopolies can only form with state interference. In a completely free market, a business can be overthrown in a month if they act poorly. The only reason bad businesses are allowed to continue today is because they recieve assistance from the government in the form of bailouts or through the supression of competitors.

What you faggots fail to answer every time is how do you stop mergers of the most successful until they have monopolies in every area.

Me too
Welfare people should lose the right to vote
A reason to get off welfare

here's a question for you tax loving faggots.

>How do you reconcile with the fact taxes go to niggers, leeches and cultural marxism?

The libertarians are right to a degree, community makes a nice society, not the government. The government actually ruins it.

The only services provided should be military, police, roads, hospitals ect

Tax is fine but it should be MINIMAL.
You want small government. Big government is the cause of EVERYTHING Sup Forums hates. Big government is where kikes hide and peddle their bureaucracy.

For example, my country spends very little of it's tax money on hospitals/schools ect

It spends retarded amounts of money on retarded shit (21.8m spent on telling preschoolers not to be sexist) and you tax faggots want to defend this? Tax should be for the bare essentials only and not a cent more, because every cent more enables horrors like this. Read this.

unsafeschools.org/the-australian-safe-schools-program-la-trobe-university/

Monopolies do not need state interference to form. It's economics 101. Just look at Standard Oil.

The presence of a lot of armed guys changes the power dynamic. At that point you're relying in the goodwill of the company. If he's big enough he can basically do whatever he wants.

Welfare is bullshit all the way.
Subsidies do everything and better

Glad its appriciated, i mostly argue with libertarians as they are the closest to my views. Authoritarians won't listen anyways, they don't really care about truth, only about enforcing whatever they think is truth. The more similar the left and right get because of their authoritarian leanings, the more important is it to forge the way for freedom
what makes a good political scientist/philosopher is that they police their own, everything else is polarization politics

Reminder

well the next step for you would be to make a system where those things you like are clearly defined. Messy guidelines makes a terrible justice system

we won't agree anyways, but some people might, if you express your opinions within a system, rather then describing perticular cases where you wouldn't agree

You're describing a government or a mafia.

You're saying that in order to avoid these mafias exploiting people involuntarily, we need an already established mafia that exploits us involuntarily.

Then we can at least agree on the fact that taking advantage of people WITHOUT their consent is wrong and a type of behavior that shouldn't be stomped out.

Slavery is voluntary. Instead of working, you can choose to starve, attempt escape, be tortured, or be killed.

So your an anarchist by pic. No need for Gov.?

The state is like a corporation that gas a monopoly in law enforcement. It taxes whatever our jewish overlords want and use those money however they want. The US elections this year showed that the only way of being heard for the normal person is to riot, as all the candidates are con-men and democracy doesn't exist.

should be stomped out*

all versions of facism have had leaders, and removed people who disagree.

or wait, are those people who are holding shovels burring someone? Then i agree.

the first rule of politics, any system who bases its workability on agreement is doomed to fail in a world where people disagree.

The only real solutions are what we have today, local direct democracies with the ability to move to other locations if you disagree (switzerland) or just kill the people who disagree (authoritarians , no matter if they are facists, left or rightwingers.)

MUH SOCIAL CONTRACT

if you want to live in your country you pay taxes, if not just move to another country. Somalia would be a great start.

>9000 years in MS paint 2: 3d paint boogaloo

Agreed, democracy is a sham. And our tax money is not going to anything worthwhile. I'm not against the idea of tax, but it should be for critical services ONLY.

As i said above here every cent of tax not being spent on critical services is enabling jewish pedophiles to destroy our society. Cultural marxism, niggers, propaganda.

Small government is the way to go and every real Sup Forumsack can agree on this. The end goal (however it is achieved) should be to have small govt similar to how the USA used to have, prior to the kike takeover.

Where's the little ugly Jew that you worship, NatSoc moron... Your pic is a lie and switches fagism for an cap society... You worship a euromutt kike...imbecile...

Taxation is different from theft because thieves don't use what they take from you to provide services.

I don't know about Sweden, but in America you could easily go off the grid, move to the woods in Wyoming, build a cabin, and never pay any taxes again. I guarantee you nobody will bother you if you keep to yourself.

Now, if you want to participate in society, drive on our roads, be kept safe by police, purchase services from workers with public education, etc, etc, etc, then yes, you have to pay for those things.

How is that theft?

The law used to be you could rape children. Does that make it right?

mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

No such thing as a naturally occurring monopoly.

See my post hereIf that money actually went to services, you would have a point. But it does not. It goes to NIGGERS, cultural marxism and other horrors. Read that link i posted.

That pedo schools shit is being implemented all over the west. That's what your tax money is paying for.

>(((israeli flag flapping)))

theft is acquiring someone elses posession without their knowledge
if i want to follow your logic is it acquiring someone elses posession under the threat of violence, therefore robbery and not theft

nope because of consent. you consent to living in a place were taxation is life.

Taxes are supposed to be for paving roads and shit which never fucking happens and the gobment wastes it all on stupid shit, so no I don't like paying taxes.

>theft
theft is the illegal taking of another person's property or services without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it

at the moment if a rich person pays 60% of the tax in the city he is still one citizen. Private security companies don't think like that. 60% of protection is only for him and his will is more important than poor fucks who can't spend much on the service. more money buys more personnel and arms there's no way around that.

Say a group of people decided to do that and form a miniature libertarian society, what would your government do? Crack down on them with taxes and other bullshit regulations of course.

>You don't like me robbing you? Just run away lol.