Flat Tax is a meme

Why do people consider flat tax as a serious tax system? It's just a meme that people use to get fucked over by those big corporations

It's only retarded and deluded libertarians who take it seriously, and most of them don't have opinions worth taking seriously anyway. But systems like land value tax or universal sales tax make more sense than taxing income.

Bump

Give one argument against flat tax that does not mention or allude to fairness.

Flat tax is the most fair system though

>Universal Sales Tax
Is that not what a flat tax is? Where everyone pays the same percentage amount in terms of the consumer products they buy?

Because people who promote it have a big propaganda machine able to make them think is alright

This, as household income grows, so does the money government get in taxes, where's the problem?

No, it's not the same at all since flat tax is applied on income and sales tax is applied on things you buy, and those two things are not the same thing. Can you think?

>Give me an argument on why flat tax is bad without referring to the reason why flat tax is bad

Wew laddie

The marginal utility of a $15000 to a person making $20000 is much higher than the marginal utility of $150000 to a person making $200000. Also considering the size and expenditures of most governments at this point you'd need an extremely high flat tax rate on everybody, probably 36-45% or so to actually pay all government expenditures, which would mean that a good number of people in lower income brackets wouldn't even be able to economically live, which is bad for the economy and would kill net spending.

But flat taxes aren't unfair, if you are all paying a low percentage of your wage It's fair.. Personally I think most government service should be cut and regulated and then just introduce a 20% VAT with 5% flat tax.

So pretty much a flat tax on sales; A flat tax in an of itself, no matter if its on property, income or sales, is regressive. And if you look back to my previous post, the idea that the rich pay proportionally to what they receive is false, as there is a certain point in which people can only spend so much

Or to clarify it better, the poor people pay a higher percentage of their income than the rich do. In addition, poor people generally have to spend most of the money they have on necessities while the rich have enough money to be able to save and invest at higher rates

Well then why don't you just make cuts to government spending? Also, marginal utility is a retarded theory. You are just pulling numbers out of your ass, being immoral under the guise of being ethical, and using syllogisms like every fucking retarded socialist faggot.

How about we stop arguing about the fairest way to steal from the people and just do away with personal taxes altogether and instead nationalize the country's natural resources and use that to fund our budget?

The people who would lose most under a flat tax system is the very people who pay retards to shill against the system under the pretense that it's unfair.

Don't be fooled.

Don't fall for the reductio ad absurdum either. Of course a flat tax system would have some sensible limitations in place to prevent a family that can barely exist to get fucked over.

>Nationalizing
How very sustainable of you.

Rich people spend much more in total than the poor on capital purchases.

What are you even talking about retard?
t.brain dead, left wing parasite German

whats wrong with a flat tax system? anything else is just an excuse to waste taxpayer government money
yes its the same fucking thing you dipshit, the OP didnt specify a difference between income or sales tax. a flat sales tax is a form of flat tax you obstinate cunt

I mean the most fair system would be if that everyone pays 15% of what he makes.Why not?Its fair.And its simple.
Give me an antiargument.

Funny that the comic almost nails it. The government is fucking over the people, regardless of tax system.

The same retards who push for a flat tax push for Universal Basic Income

They just want to suck up to their corporate billionaire masters while fucking over the working class.

Jew kike overlords don't want flat tax system because it shifts a lot of the burden (rightfully so) to them.

Go get raped by more muslims.

>It's fair that someone who makes $15,000 a year pays the same tax rate as someone who makes $15 million a year

How retarded can you possibly be?

That's what a flat tax is, and I think the percentage should be lower and vary on a monthly basis regarding how much the government spends, I also think a large portion of taxes should be on VAT.

It works for China.
Why cant it work for us?

Oh, right. Flat tax power!

> The same retards who push for a flat tax push for Universal Basic Income
Are you serious? The policies are supported by people who are generally diametrically opposed to each other.

> Fuck having economic freedom and shit, why not be like China

>Poor pay a higher percentage of their income with a flat tax
No, rich and poor pay the same percentage with a flat tax. That's the point dummy.

>supporting Value added Tax
>supporting a flat tax

you might as well just nuke Europe now and get it over with

Europe already has a crippling VAT and the economy is predictably the most stagnant on earth. Adding a Flat Tax will kill you all off faster than the Muslims will.

Except they aren't

I seem the same retarded libertarians and "conservatives" pushing for UBI and the Flat Tax

But Why not?They are the same people,and the wealth of both is taken by 15%.The more you make,the more you contribute,the less you mAKE the less you contribute.A man who makes 100 dollars in a day,working 5 hours pays 15 dollars,a man who makes 1000 dollars in 5 hours pays 150 dollars,this man work is just making more money,but all of them is paying a good share,so Why not?Can you prove it other way than namecalling me?

>Literally using a communist country as an example
Fucking kill yourself desu, if you have a natural recourse on your property it's fucking yours. VAT and low flat tax are the best system and it means that the government can only function when people are doing well financially.

You do know what rate means right?

I have said it before, but the rich pay a way smaller percentage of their income than poor people do.

If person A buys a desk for $100 and pays a 10% tax and so does person B, it seems fair on the surface, but when you realise person A has only $10,000 in the bank account and person B has $1,000,000 in their bank account, then you realize that person A has spent much more of their income percantage wise than person B.

If let's say other countries started to nationalize their resources, especially those that provide China with all the crucial metals, everyone's economies would collapse in a week, not to mention the global market as a whole

And what would you like more? Progressive taxes

The more you work, the more you have to pay?

Because they are only looking at it on a surface and doesn't take into account a number of factors

There is too much government spending and I can see literally nothing wrong with a flat tax.

That is 1st person problem,he could always go for the 50$ table.You are shouting right nów literally but wealthy people bad.
Its not their fault that they are richer than some1 else.

There should be only two tax brackets, a positive rate and a negative rate

>shitposts about china not having economic freedom
Its the only freedom in china

Seriously how dumb are you?

a 15% tax negatively affects the living standards of someone making $15,000 a year far more than it affects the living standards of someone making $15 million a year.

This is basic math. someone in the lower working class can't afford to have such a large sum of their salary taxed away without significantly lowering their living standards.

You can tax millions of dollars from a billionaire and they're still a billionaire.

You know what living standards are right?

Labor is a commodity. An income tax is just a sales tax on labor.

Alternatively you could think of it as the more property you own the more property you need protected and therefore the more you need to pay the government since it's the entity/apparatus that guarantees property protection/rights, contract enforcement, etc.

>flat tax is not fair because im poor
>my incompetence should be rewarded
boohoo

this. a rich dude buying a yacht who pays a flat tax of 5% vs a poor person who pays 5% on a loaf of bread

one person pays tens of thousands of dollars in tax on the one sale, the other just a few pennies

a flat sales tax is the most fair and balanced way to tax, and the least redundant


consider our current system:

1) you work and get a paycheck. taxes deducted from your income
2) you buy your meals and daily living expenses with the leftover money, these purchases are taxed yet again with sales tax
3) you save up your money for a large purchase like a house. not only do you pay sales tax with the money you already were taxed with by income, now you also have to pay an annual property tax
4) wow 30 years later you are getting old and thinking of retiring, you decide to sell your house. you pay income tax again that year, on a house you bought with money that was already taxed for income because for some reason selling your house counts as taxable income
5) you are getting old and about to shit the bed so you write a will, leaving all your shit and wealth to your kids. you die, and they now have to pay capital gains taxes, on the money that was now income taxed twice, gotten from a sale you paid sales tax on, gotten from a sale you paid property taxes annually for 30 years


do you fuckwads seriously not see the immense injustice here?

It's funny to even assume that most of the top 1% have gotten to where they are through hard work and not because they were either born rich, have family connections, etc. etc.

Taxation is theft, period
Any and all services currently monopolized by authoritarian government would find their solution on the market of willing participants if there was in fact a demand for them

Any involuntary wealth expropriation system relies on taking the most from those who have the least, at the bottom of the pyramid; talking of flat or any other tax rate somehow never puts this at the forefront

Can't wait for the day all ponzies on this planet fuck off and die, alongside those perpetuating them and being parasites to the supposedly free man

Taxation has nothing to do with spending, moron.

Countries regularly spend far more than they tax.

This is called a budget deficit. All a flat tax would do would be to increase the deficit all while increasing the tax burden on the working class.

China is much way, way less economically free than virtually any nice Western or Western-style/influenced country.

If you want a safety net for basic needs that's a completely different argument.

Taxes are funding your own ethnic replacement and subversion of your people, why would you support them?

Except most people are making neither $15k nor $15m. A flat tax would largely benefit the middle classes. The people making $15k a year are also already on government assistance, so it really won't effect them as much as you're making out.

> Labor is a commodity. An income tax is just a sales tax on labor.
You can make money via interest, capital gains, etc. which isn't technically labor.

So, essentially what you say is that it's a bad thing that people with better income are actually living better, and that the richfag making a million should count his last cents same as a poorfag??

What is this commie bullshit? You do realise that the tax system you have in mind would only work if the whole world is under the same regime, so the rich have nowhere to offshore/run off to?

>If you are a normal working class person you are incompetent

Just goes to show how misanthropic and evil the average Swede is.

so explain why it is "fair" to make person B pay more, when they very well could have worked harder for their wealth than person A who decides to sit back in life and do the easiest, lowest paying job in life because they are lazy

You are literally making a false equivalence. If both of them bought bread at 5%, the rich dude only and the poor dude bought the bread at 5% tax rate, but if you take the money they spent from the tax and compare it to their income, the poor person paid more in terms of their income percentage wise than the rich person does. I can't believe this is the 5th time I wrote this.

>it's another Sup Forums gives ignorant economic opinions as facts episode
clean your rooms

So rich people should pay a higher sales tax? How fucking dumb are you?

You wouldn't need a safety net in society if you stopped taxing the working class so much, idiot.

>A flat tax would largely benefit the middle classes

Except it wouldn't. You're increasing the tax burden on the middle class in order to reward the upper .1% of society.

> it's a bad thing that people with better income are actually living better

No, moron, I'm saying that the higher income brackets can easily afford higher percentage of taxation while the lower income brackets can't

If you increase taxes on the lower income brackets they are fucked and can't afford food, housing, etc. If you increase taxation on the highest income brackets, they will be fine.

A poor person spends nearly 100% of their income on necessities. They can't afford any increase in taxation or they will lose all that they have. A very rich man spends almost all of his money on luxuries that are not necessary to his own survival or the upkeep of his business. The poor man uses very little of the nation's resources to live. The rich man uses far more of the collective resources of government to manage and operate his vast estates and luxuries. It makes perfect sense to tax a rich man more.

Explain this silly assumption that there is enough economic mobility in the United States to the point where working hard is proportional to how rich you will be and not because you have connections or have a silver spoon in your mouth the minute you were born.

no i am illustrating to you how the system balances out.

rich people will end up contributing the most because they will spend the most, they will buy airplanes, boats, houses, goods of all sorts

the poor people will not be constantly buying things, since they dont have much money to begin with. and if it makes you feel better, you can just as easily make some sort of exemption on flat sales taxes for things of "basic necessity" like food, so that you cant use the excuse that "poor people have it so hard they have to pay taxes on food"

LOWER EXPENDITURE, THEN LOWER TAXES SLIGHTLY LESS TO PAY OFF DEBTS THAT HAVE ACCUMULATED! FUCK THE WORKING CLASS AND THERE STUPID FEELINGS!

What do you fucking mean by "increasing the burden", and I don't see what is wrong with taxing the rich less if the middle class pays less in tax too.

You see amerilard,i get ypur concept,your idea
Thing is,you see im a 2nd generatioj of people who lived after communism Has fallen in mu country.My parents starter from 0,literall zero.My father Has no college-but through 20 years of hard work,they are somewhere in upper class.Me?Im gonna inherit it,and have a biiiig headstart in life.At this point,you are saying ,,uhm you have big money,so you pay nigger!" So I should pay more,because my parents worked hard?,,But yeh friend didnt have a ig headstart so he should pay less!" So didnt my parents,but somehow they managed to get that wealth...
Idk,It may be a thing that poor people dont like flat tax,but man fuck you and your communistic ideas.

So you are for increasing the tax burden on the middle and lower class? Wow, such a smart idea! Yes lets just fuck over the poor you fucking shit for brains

>Oh let's just take people's money, especially if they have a lot of it, they wont even know it's missing
Kill yourself, Socialist scum.

What if there were actual economists/case studies which had debunked the Laffer Curve, which provides much of the theoretical justification for a flat tax? Then it wouldn't be so ignorant to oppose a flat tax.
economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2012/06/laughing-at-the-laffer-curve.html

>silly assumption
>literally proven fact

its like you dont even realize how many stupid niggers are millionaires from their rap music

have you ever walked into a 7/11 and asked the pajeets behind the counter if they were born with silver spoon in hand?

yes, if you work hard and save your money you can open your own enterprise and become rich you dipshit

Wow, guess that one hurt didn't it, because you have fuck all to put against anything, really, besides emotionally loaded communism ideals

I guess you understand that your delusion would never have success in practice, reverting back to my previous post.

>FUCK THE WORKING CLASS

Another great way to sum up modern European economists.

That's not how it works

A flat tax means increasing middle class taxes in order to give a tax break to billionaires

Why do you think rich billionaires push the Flat Tax so much?

They're less affected, moron

The alternative is that you think we ought to tax the working class more just so we can give a tax break to billionaires.

Also,there is a thing that nobody can refute.

You are whining about the flat produkt tax.You said its unequal for people to pay always the same on that given produkt.So instead of paying 10% of the produkt price,a less wealthy person pays 10% and more wealthy person pays 15%.But it doesnt change anything,because the less wealthy person still wont buy a damn thing if he Has no money.

>Save money
This is a funny assumption. You think that a poor person has the ability to save money, let alone invest it. If we had a universal sales tax like your shit-for-brain fellow anons are, they would have to spend more per income, which means less money to save.

>stupid niggers makes money from rap music
You literally think these people made money from hard work and not just catering to what is popular in our culture? You literally think that every poor person has the ability to do that? Wow you really are a special kind of stupid

>you have fuck all t

You mean besides basic economic facts like "taxing more from the working class is bad for the economy"? How is the working class going to make money or save money if you're taxing it all from them? How is the working class even going to pay rent?

I guess if you ignore basic economics then a flat tax makes sense.

lol you're a commie scumbag, enjoy being a weak parasitic faggot the rest of your life :)

I love the amount of responses you are getting
>ITS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T WORKING HARD ENOUGH REEEEEEE
>YOU ARE A SOCIALIST COMMIE KYS

It's as if they can't understand the complexities in our economy, let alone our tax system, and have to cater to a flat tax to simplify their worldviews

>the working class are parasites
>the billionaires looting the country, flooding it with immigrants, and selling all the public infrastructure and real estate to the Chinese aren't

Typical r/the donald logic

>This is a funny assumption. You think that a poor person has the ability to save money, let alone invest it. If we had a universal sales tax like your shit-for-brain fellow anons are, they would have to spend more per income, which means less money to save.

just because you are terrible at money management doesnt mean other people are. stop projecting, obviously you have never met thrifty chinks before. ever heard of making sacrifices like the saying "eating ramen"? if people are so destitute they cant afford sales taxes on non-essential goods, then maybe they shouldn't be purchasing them. why is it my job to pay for their ipod? we already addressed your concern with food and housing. there are already programs in place from the government to give people with zero means some shelter and food. explain again why poor people deserve my money given to them so they can buy iphones and nike basketball shoes

I find it ironic that these libertarians and conservatives pushing for a flat tax, UBI, and other such nonsense are basically supporting the very leftist billionaires they pretend to fight.

You realize that corporate tax is a flat tax though?

the poor will literally have to become slaves

Flat tax for the rich and middle class and no taxes on the poor is a perfect combination.

>Stop Eating Food

and you have the gall to call other people communists

also i see you weren't man enough to explain the logic behind taxing my income multiple times in my post here why does my paycheck get taxed on income, then that same money is now taxed on sales, then that same money is taxed again when i sell the goods i bought, then that same money is taxed again when i attempt to invest it, then its taxed again when i attempt to pass it down to my children

yeah that seems real fair,all while the poor people at the bottom pay nothing and have no motivation to leave the bottom because of your socialist redistribution policies

Again, why are we paying taxes? For the government to spend. If we decreased government spending we could lower taxes across the board and have a flat tax. Surly this isn't that hard to understand. I can see an argument against excessive VAT, but I can't see an argument against a flat tax that doesn't involve "muh working class" or "muh millionaires and billionaires". Just cut welfare completely, privatize schools, and healthcare, revise military spending and make cut backs where it is possible, only have congress, the police force, the military, the fire brigade and maybe certain jobs around licencing and regulation inspection government owned, are you telling me we couldn't reduce taxes if we did that?

so you ignored the entire post and just made a false statement, congrats. you either have shit reading comprehension or are a diehard communist shill

hey moron those big corporations already have an army of lawyers and lobbies to create/exploit loopholes and don't pay any tax as it is. a flat tax would be a way of shifting the burden from middle class to them.

>Non-essential Goods
I was referring to essential goods you fucking dipshit. And even if I was referring to non-essential goods, what makes you think that a person should not have the same leisures as those in the upper-class? Fuck those poor people for not working every day for 12 hours and wanting to have some time and leisure. Right?

why do you want to decrease government spending? we need to bring migrants and refugees over to maintain or expand our spending otherwise our taxes might go down

It's not the same millionaires and billionaires is it? You can still have a nationalist system with low taxation.

Actually thats the tactic they prefer since they pay less while the middle class reverts to low, creating cheaper labor.

i already said it makes sense to not tax things like food. there are states in america that dont have sales tax on groceries, even in communist kalifornia. so again, a flat sales tax would not be affecting these poor people and laws could easily be enacted to ensure that

Kek.

No, that's completely wrong, the very wealthy already pay a disproportionate share in taxes of their earnings.

Flat Tax is the best. The truth is that in our current progressive tax code there are so many loopholes put into it that the rich use to avoid paying taxes. You just need to afford for a bajillion lawyers.
Flat tax makes everything simple and everyone pays.