I've went through so many changes in my beliefs over the last 10 years I've done a sort of full circle and I don't think I'll ever see capitalism as benign again. I went from being a labour voter mid 2000s to centrist to tory to UKIP supporter to pretty right wing and unsure of what I believed, supported Farage, Brexit, Trump, then came back in 2017 about to somewhere somewhat left of my original mid 2000s beliefs fiscally, but more right socially, with the exception of the surveillance society which I believe should be stopped in its tracks before we become a 1984 dystopia, though probably won't be stopped because of all the terrorism incidents which will be used to justify more police & surveillance laws.
That's not to say I wouldn't still (have) support(ed) Trump, I like him but I do cringe a bit at his kowtowing to middle eastern nations such as the Saudis & the Israelis; what gives? And I'd definitely still have supported Brexit - the EU is disgusting. I still like UKIP's social policies (reduced immigration) but fiscally they'd just be more tories plus they've fell to complete irrelevance. I'm going to vote for Corbyn.
Don't get me wrong I'm not pro immigration or multiculturalism, I'm for a more closed borders type of socialism. I do think multiculturalism has failed and mass immigration is ultimately not a good thing for citizens of a nation.
But I think socialism does away with all of the degeneracy of capitalism. The instagram kids with their $10k wine bottles. Hell half of the celebrities who preach socialism surround their mansions with high fences & security guards and vote neocon. They don't represent socialism. People like Zuckerberg are phoneys. And China definitely isn't socialist or communist, it's one of the most capitalistic nations on Earth, completely driven by greed & profit and a lack of care for it's people, ironically governed by 'politicians' calling themselves the 'communist party'.
Sort of, but then people just call you a nazi and link you with genocide & death camps and all the memes. So fuck labelling myself national socialist.
Levi Long
Socialism is bad.
Carter Reyes
Heey i had this a year ago too, if you're young thats because you're growing up, if you're old it's probably because you base your ideology mostly of emotions.
Inform yourself either way. Nothing has meaning, everything is just matter interacting in a predictable and deterministic way. In a few quadrillion years everything will be a soup of emptyness and completely scatters planck length particles
This being said, the elites are using are fear towards foreign refugees so we cant unite and overthrow the repressors. Multinational corporations control everything aaand a capitalist system needs the enslavement of workers all around the world. Anyways, long live the united states of europe
always been a socialist op. I personally believe people afraid of socialism are idiots. All systems can lop side and ruin a society. Socialism needs capitalist components. but it is a strong idea that helps society. 80% of the wealth in our country is owned by 20% of the people, and more than all of that 19 percent is the 1 %. that said. is it even possible to redestribute that money? hear me out. if we made a system that could redestribute money through socialism. would it ever be able to do so without being the 1% itself? is it possible to defeat ziphs law?
Evan Garcia
Weeeeew arguments!
Carson Howard
>And China definitely isn't socialist or communist, it's one of the most capitalistic nations on Earth, There are doing better now then when they were actually communist
Jordan Morris
Yes because this is how socialism works? At least inform yourself so that it doesnt become super obvious that this is bait by a 14 y old.
Justin Scott
>I'm for a more closed borders type of socialism
James Sullivan
>yeah man, we should totally share >oh me? Yeah I don't have anything to share. But we should share your stuff.
Owen Miller
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Ryan Barnes
Social is immoral. Its stealing and its bad for society. And in the end it does not consider human nature. It requires human nature to be removed which is why it has always pushed for the destruction of social constructs in the hopes of bending humans to it. Ultimately when that fails it ends is the mass death of many and the destruction of a countries freedom and prosperity.
Zachary Campbell
>I do cringe a bit at his kowtowing to middle eastern nations such as the Saudis & the Israelis; what gives?
All Western economies would shit themselves the moment the oil stopped flowing. The spice must flow. You think there is no reason for us knocking over every middle eastern country but that one?
They got too cocky with Iraq. They though it would be easy to get the oil flowing again after. In reality it took ten years and it hurt markets.
They wont make that mistake again soon. So BP will have to invent a ship that can suck the oil right out of the ground or alternative energy will have to stop being shit. Because we are stuck will them until we can do without them.
Landon Green
its called stealing you faggot
Nathan Bailey
I'm 27. Emotions? I've come full circle. Yes I know that ultimately nothing has meaning but I think socialism is more benign than capitalism.
If human nature ruled the world we'd have nothing and it'd still be a couple of cavemen smashing each other over the head for their next meal. Law, civilisation, education, refrigeration, mass production, ultimately welfare, and so on... these things we call came up with to improve the lifestyle of humanity in general, that set us apart from how we treat each other compared to how we treat farm animals.
Just tired of seeing Sup Forums defend over and over soulless mindless lawless corporations who'd throw you under the bus at any opportunity for a quick profit. You have to be smarter than this. I don't care about all your virtue signalling and your memes about left wings and liberals being degenerates. I'm not a liberal, but I believe in socialism. Suck my dick. Suck Zuckerberg's dick, Google's dick, coca cola's dick. They love Sup Forums's pro capitalist virtue signalling because it lets untouchable corporate gods like them continue to do what they want with humanity & earth.
James Powell
Socialism is the radical idea that no one own nothings but everyone need to desfruits the works of everyone and anything is available all the times to anyone.Its a idiot idea that doesn't that account scarcity and its based on false assumptions like surplus value, that value of things is objective and the its derived from the work-hours on in it, when in reality is subjective, and don't even that in account things like "proletarian dictatorship" where even your life is in the hands of the state, there's economy planification, there is price control (central planners think they can go way of market prices and still really predict the price of anything all the times) and repression everywhere.
Ryan Richardson
i'm into non marxist socialism if it has marx then its automatically shit.
Landon Lewis
Cool, share your wife and your house with Achmed to your hearts content you retarded faggot, leave me out of it. Ever notice how the people who all want others to share have NOTHING of their own to contribute, really activates my almonds. Saged and didn't read. Kill yourself.
Lucas Price
This is a well put point. Capitalism has no time for their beloved tradition, religion or culture. A capitalist society will lose those virtues if elites can see that subverting them will grant a profit. Money and money alone interests modern "conservatives", what a shame.
Samuel Adams
>If human nature ruled the world we'd have nothing and it'd still be a couple of cavemen smashing each other over the head for their next meal. Law, civilisation, education, refrigeration, mass production, ultimately welfare, and so on... these things we call came up with to improve the lifestyle of humanity in general, that set us apart from how we treat each other compared to how we treat farm animals. >Just tired of seeing Sup Forums defend over and over soulless mindless lawless corporations who'd throw you under the bus at any opportunity for a quick profit. You have to be smarter than this. I don't care about all your virtue signalling and your memes about left wings and liberals being degenerates. I'm not a liberal, but I believe in socialism. Suck my dick. Suck Zuckerberg's dick, Google's dick, coca cola's dick. They love Sup Forums's pro capitalist virtue signalling because it lets untouchable corporate gods like them continue to do what they want with humanity & earth.
Corporate power being too large is a different problem. That means we need to tweak the laws to stop the bad stuff. Capitalism works because it takes human nature into account. Competition is something we crave and letting out desire for wealth drive us is what creates all this industry. Under socialism not only are you ignoring the human need to be driven you are stifling it. And the moment someone doesn't want to go along with it you need to point a gun at them. Because you cannot work that system if people are allowed the freedom to do otherwise.
Socialism is massive authoritarian by its nature. Which is why it ends in death so often. Also the government that controls all of this power will corrupt even faster then the one we have now.
Over and over again we have seen socialism we know what it does and it is terrible. If someone tells you it would be different if they were in charge you should be wary of that person.
You dont have to support massive uber corps to be pro capitalism.
Austin Robinson
>mfw we could all be national socialists with Ayran qt trad wifes but the Allies fucked it up.
Hudson Kelly
What regulations would you propose to limit the possibility of behemoth multinational corporations becoming too bit for their boots? A capitalist system, in a fundamental sense will always generate these monopolies at some point or another, enslaving the world's people as it goes.
Matthew Harris
Socialism has to kill tradition in order to bend people to it. Go look at what countries have to do in order to pull it off. Hell Marxists are trying to undermined tradition right now because they want to move to socialism and tradition is getting in the way.
Central planned economies all have the same terminal flaws.
-They must be totalitarian and abusive to the people in order to control. Otherwise people will just do what they want.
-It ignores human nature it doesnt use human drive in fact it stifles it. Ask someone who just floating a a piece of Garbage from Cuba to America what its like.
-It kills tradition. In the end the country has to have total control and in order to chase that impossibility it starts trying to shape your mind. Kids in Cuba get educated at state schools that teach propaganda. Your tradition has to die for the good of the revolution.
In Capitalism people get as much tradition as they choose.
Juan Cooper
Sharing against someone's will is stealing
Jordan Gray
>But I think socialism does away with all of the degeneracy of capitalism. No it doesnt Without social safety net most degenerates would die out
Nolan Parker
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John Miller
>A capitalist system, in a fundamental sense will always generate these monopolies at some point or another, enslaving the world's people as it goes. When did this ever happen?
Nicholas Wood
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Ryan Sanders
This user wonders whether OP is currently a net contributor to the coffers of his socialist utopia or whether he's a net beneficiary. It's really making me think.
Jayden White
If I'm forced to give someone my things that isn't sharing. Sharing is voluntary.
Anthony Peterson
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Isaiah Adams
First step here in America is to stop waving monopoly law. Vertical monopolies and any other kind. Our entire problem we have with our ISPs now is because of this shit. Also encourage transparency for all things government. Money should not flow from companies to government or the other way without people able to watch from the outside.
Third local government is easier to control. Honestly I would like to see power start flowing back to the states in the US. Also its easier to keep politicians in line when you can get your neighbors together and go knock on the door to their office. Some fuck in Washington forgets about the people at home pretty quick if he doesn't go back there constantly.
There is nothing going on with our Corps right now that could not be stopped. A good example is football stadiums. Everyone hears about how the city rents them to the team at $1 or something and the team owner pockets everything. That is because the owners threaten to go somewhere else. Politicians need to all stick to a price plan or something so they cant be bullied. Also let a couple teams leave and talk to the fans so they treat the team like a pariah.
This is the same in other industries. Companies constantly use the idea of losing jobs to get politicians to give away deals in a sort of race to the bottom.
Cooper Diaz
Capitalist niggers defeated the perfect political system in WW2. I should be typing this in German right now. Instead all white countries are being invaded by the 3rd world.
Jonathan Walker
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Adrian Anderson
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Daniel Murphy
A country and its citizen need a driving idea or point, in capitalism it relies on peoples inherent greed and envy Capitalism relies on the fact that people want to climb the pyramid, they see the top and try to get there to live worry free luxurious life
Bad side of capitalism is the higher up you get the less spots there are, in a way capitalism is a pyramid scheme, "work hard, put your career first and one day you will be here with us enjoying the good life"
That is the lie they spew, there isn't enough spots at the top, majority will live mediocre lives despite their efforts, those in the top are well connected and people who don't play ball face a glass ceiling, women and minorities are stupid enough to blame this on external factors, the reason they won't reach those spots is because they aren't connected and trusted to play ball with the already existing order
Capitalism is ideal breeding ground for oligarchies which is why America is so fucked up, big companies can cash out the favors their pocket players owe them with a bit of cash cream on the top
"Why not Socialism then user, surely it is better than the corrupt Capitalistic system?" That's where you're wrong, Socialism invites parasites and leeches (see northern Europe for examples), "this country gives out FREE MONEY!, why would we work if we can live better lives than at home without doing jack shit?"
Only form of Socialism that works is National Socialism, benevolent totalitarianism that's motive is the wellfare of the host citizen, downside is those tend to get carried away and invite global intervention to their maniacal expansion Also Capitalistic governments don't like competition, same as with communism they would try to sabotage the rival and sow discontent why? imagine if a country would be left alone like that, the multicultural capitalistic dystopia could not compete in quality of life for the masses, citizenship in a country like that would be worth it's weight in gold
Lucas Powell
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Colton Martinez
How about national socialism user?
Matthew Allen
Sharing at gunpoint isn't sharing.
I'd be more friendly with libertarian socialists/anarchists, except they also seem to advocate economic coercion in some way or another.
Austin White
i think its time for a helicopter ride britbong
Luke Ward
How much tradition do you see in 2017? Hollywood & the big media for decades have been and continue to warp the minds of our young. And Hollywood is at the forefront of the capitalist system.
Don't preach to me about tradition in 2030 when you're paying your straight white male tax or doing jail time for historical trans hate speech they traced from your internet logs in the mid 2010's.
Easton Adams
>Yes because this is how socialism works? Socialism doesn't work.
Austin Hughes
Very simple answer: sharing keeps shitty people from falling, and thus keeps good people from rising.
Ryan Ross
>Capitalism is ideal breeding ground for oligarchies Still better than me working sixty hours and getting paid for twenty.
Jeremiah Johnson
I think you meant "stealing" not sharing.
Cooper Cox
People are reacting to that shit. The whole post modern and sjw bullshit is working because they are killing us by a thousand tiny cuts. People react eventually though and they are doing it now. Look at youtube and the constant bitching pl;us coverage about everything. Look at how the mainstream legacy media is dying.
We should right now start making our own films and sharing info on how to do it. Develop an open source kind of plan and let hollywood drown.
Matthew Smith
Does government funded art put out anything better? >when you're paying your straight white male tax or doing jail time for historical trans hate speech they traced from your internet logs in the mid 2010's. What does this have to do with free markets?
Benjamin White
>le fictional characters comparison laugh out loud!! pls do a harry potter one
Or you might get actual pay for your labor instead of the pittance most countries pay the working class
Jace Fisher
Nice guy Ethno socialist futurism
Carson Thompson
>I'm for a more closed borders type of socialism. You need Titoism and/or distributism.
Connor Lee
>Socialism is the radical idea of free shit
Andrew Wilson
Also I should add its the marxists/socialists/communists
Jayden Nguyen
Tito was a mayor faggot
Henry Ward
t. Suljo Pedersen
Lincoln Robinson
The emperor ran a fucking universe sized government while Obi-wan played with his dick in the sand.
This is what you meant right?
Corbyn is a person who wants to do good but he is dumb as a post and would rape the UK.
Levi White
Look at the world you live in, everything you own is likely the production of a sweatshop of the east or south America. People who live in "socialist" nations where money seems to still be the pervasive goal. These people have little freedom, as they work 12 hours a day in sweat and soil for materialist westerners to have 5 minutes of trivial joy. And the westerners are not free, either. Consumed by things and objects, the west has lost all meaning of life and utility. You will find yourself working tirelessly for a few extra dollars, slaving away at some meaningless and useless office job, to buy the next useless distraction to entertain you for five seconds. You likely won't be able to afford kids. Maybe one, if you're lucky. Then globalist capitalists, not sated by the money they already have, will call for mass immigration to top up the labour markets, providing yet more money for their limitless pockets. Your nation, people and culture, gone. Sacrificed on the altar of money power. The solution is for all peoples of the world to be separate in traditional nations yet united against the plundering and exploitation ruthlessly carried out with the goal of money.
Jordan Anderson
(((1%)))
Luke Stewart
What did you call me?
Kayden Hughes
>Consumed by things and objects, the west has lost all meaning of life and utility this is because they turned away from God
Blake Morales
Nazi regime was just socialism for the volk, its economy was based on pillegering countries, talking debt and wasting all its money on weapons and such. One may say that it was this way because of their intended to fight a war, but as the time passed they suppress any market economy, they did price controls, took business way of any "undesirable" and by 1939 they already were facing high inflation and a debt bigger than their nation gdp, they were facing the same thing that happened to the soviet union, by the mid 40s and 50s would war never came their economy would have crashed so bad that the allies wouldnt even need to shot a bullet.
Charles Campbell
The higher my income climbs, the less I'm interested in helping people. Stop having kids.
Kayden Smith
What a pity it is
Matthew Morales
Socialism: The radical idea of *stealing*
Aaron Morales
Indeed they have, because edgy Jewish capitalists love promoting atheism and making it extremely popular, so that people have a more "fuck it yolo lol" attitude towards spending money on frivolity.
Brody Richardson
Capitalism: The radical idea of *being ruled by the Jews because they have all the money and the ones with money in a society of greed rule* National socialism is the only way don't fall for the ancap or the capitalist bullshit.
Christopher Garcia
Reading your comment I'm struck by how envious, perhaps even jealous, you are of other people. What concern is it of yours that someone spends $10k on a bottle of wine? The money transferred from one set of hands to another, and in this transaction several people were paid and the state taxed them all through VAT, corporate tax, and income tax.
We benefit from some services being socialised, such as potable water, sewers, and garbage collection. Other services, such as childhood education, ought to be provided with the explicit understanding the beneficiary owes society X sum of money to be repaid once s/he starts working. The German model of education ought to be used to channel mediocre students into the trades. There's no shame in being an electrician, and competent ones earn a decent wage. The state should not open borders to drive down wages of the working class. "But the poor, they won't do these jobs" is a disingenuous claim. The reason they won't is due to gov't handouts and employers who pay lower wages to imported workers.
Police and fire protection ought to be socialised. The military limited to national defence and no adventures overseas. That's about it.
Why should the 'caring' for others be mandated by the state? It is simply a make-work programme for mediocre bureaucrats, busy body activists, and jobsworths.
Our problem is too many think they deserve more because they think are above average (the superiority illusion) yet they are unable to combine ideas and skills to present something greatly valued by the marketplace. Their mediocre skills entitle them to mediocre pay.
Are the wealthy stealing from the lower classes? Did Warren Buffett pillage Omaha? Is Zuckerberg forcing people at gunpoint to use the free service called wastebook?
Truly wealthy people don't work for their money, their money works for them. This is not a privilege reserved to them. Anyone can invest. To do so well requires initiative, some talent, and a bit of luck.
Jackson Green
Fuck sharing, get your own shit, any wealth I amass is for me and my loved ones, the rest of you can fucking die for all I give a shit.
Sebastian Jenkins
f-fight the power, comrade!
Ryan Lopez
There is nothing wrong in socialism, two conditions: it has to be yours (earned by you) it has to be voluntary
Mason Roberts
sharing is caring and i give 0 fucks
Kayden Rivera
What prevents you from sharing in a capitalist society, except for your own greed?
Jordan Harris
Sharing isn't the issue. The issue is the government forcing me to share.
Joshua Hill
Early christians were very socialist, but with these conditions I can't see anything wrong with it.
Ian Murphy
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James Collins
here come the capitalist imperialist ""christians""
Daniel Murphy
Capitalism is just an economic system, the political aspect attached to it may be one of democracy or dictatorship (and both are bad). National socialism is just the idea that you have to give your freedom, your earnings and your life to the "hyper-efficient" state,that cannot do anything but steal and use force against its citizens, and it will somehow protect your race and your country. You will have to be a self-hating bootlicker and never do anything that the state think its wrong.
Luis Sanders
It's nice when I know everyone is doing their part. Sad fact is they aren't
Mason Russell
I love working hard so my tax money can go towards single mothers and immigrants.
Austin Bell
Yes we'll all just share, that's it. I'm going to choose the easiest job, with the least amount of work in that case...
Cameron Davis
>Ayran qt trad wifes
You mean several Aryan qt trad ex-wives.
David Russell
"Sharing."
Logan James
Works good in theory but people are greedy by nature.
Christopher Rivera
Socialism doesn't work alongside open borders you can have socialist things like healthcare or you can have open borders but have both and it fucks up quickly
Isaac Wilson
>Threatening with threat of jail by pointing a gun at you in order to force you to hand over hard earned dollars through one's own sweat and transfer the fruits of labor to those who game the system or buy votes promising free money
>Sharing
Michael Walker
>Basically describes himself as a national socialist (if a bit softcore one)
Welcome and seig heil mein kameraden
Brody Perry
The elites are bringing in the refugees and opening the borders dumbass. The more open borders and less identity that nations have the more control they have
Aiden Barnes
Tried'it. Didn't work. Move on.
Connor Thompson
Gas the kikes
Luke Powell
All they did was get greasy tratorious Jews out of their economy and boom massive improvement. Of course the kikes couldn't let them get away with that
Jonathan Howard
National socialism is for the citizens it wants only to remove subversive elements like Jews
Aaron Collins
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Easton Thompson
>socialism needs capitalist components. I do not trust my government enough to redistribute wealth. Besides, because of pork barrel legislation how much goes to benefit congress rather the people.
Josiah King
Socialism works so well you have to lock people into any nation where it's implemented to keep them from escaping.
Kayden Gomez
What if the only wealth being redistributed was that which the jew left behind after being gassed?
Levi Evans
Except national socialist Germany that Germans from everywhere wanted to go to
John Hernandez
Libertarians are greedy little kikes. Socialism works but only if the government are Nationalists.
Joseph Jones
Yes yes, le goy,.
The problem i fundamentally see witg socialism is that they try to legislate altruism. In economic prosperity its nifty. But in economic downturns. Its awful
