Conversation with a Muslim Pt. 2

Earlier this conversation started now it's somewhat underway. Again supporting facts/arguments against her statements.

Other urls found in this thread:

thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
youtu.be/g7TAAw3oQvg
youtube.com/watch?v=02LrATtFGvs&feature=BFa&list=UUnYKjBrI1ErwhDprla7Unwg&lf=plcp
thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx
salon.com/2014/10/13/bill_maher_and_sam_harris_proof_is_wrong_their_argument_is_based_on_an_untrustworthy_poll/
themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/islam-the-crimes-of-prophet-mohammed/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

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>Raghead bitch uses taqiyya on a nu-male cuck
Why argue with a Muslim when you can just toss them off of the reclaimed Theodosian walls

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She says Mohammed pioneered women's rights, and lists some examples of what he 'fixed' but ignores why he did it or that it was a done deal. Women aren't equal in Islam, by doctrine their testimony is worth half that of a man's. Mohammed didn't want young girls killed because you could use them as baby factories and he thought it was a waste, same reason he generally frowned on killing female captives. He doesn't care about their lives, he cares about their vaginas and wombs. Also she listed Polygamy as a bad thing, but then skipped right over that all Mohammed did was put a cap on it (4 Wives, some number of slaves/concubines) except for himself who could have as many as he wanted.

As far as 'most muslims' oppose ISIS, its a technical truth that ignores scale. I find it extremely hard to find anyone actually publicly denouncing ISIS, and I don't even necessarily blame them for that. Just as a complete difference between them and the Klan, people were not hugely concerned with the Klan attacking you for talking shit about them. There was a risk, and there were cases here and there, but they weren't going to cross country to do it. Opposed to that people won't speak out publicly against ISIS for the very real threat of them dying. Their silence stands as a testament to why ISIS and Al-Queda, and the Taliban, and Boko Haram are different from the KKK. Simply the fact that you cannot count the number of Islamic Terror groups on a single hand while you can count the only Christian group people remember on a single finger means something. Slightly more clever people (Or Europeans) might remember the IRA instead. And neither of these groups had religion as their motivating factor. The KKK are White Nationalists first, targeting based on Race and country of origin (Catholics were mostly targeted for being European) and the IRA was entirely political, having been excommunicated by the Pope. They were religious people, but it was not religious fervor that was their reason for doing stuff. This is not the case for Islam where politics IS religion, since Islam demands to must live under or strive for Sharia wherever you are and that their end goal is bringing the whole world under Sharia by any means necessary.

As for 'But if all Muslims were violent, don't you think 1.8 billion people could just super easily kill the remaining 5.2 billion instantly?' That's obviously stupid. Islam tried that and they got beaten back, they know they can't militarily conquer the West, its why ISIS is doing what it is currently doing and isn't even subtle, clever, or hiding it.

bump

Ask about what will happen when muslims reach a higher population percentage. Are we going to start seeing muslim laws in western cities? Are we going to lose Chrisitian symbols which this country was founded on?

Tell her muslim's don't have a place in western countries because they will never assimilate.

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Where did ya find her?

she rekt ya OP

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She's using the no true Scotsman fallacy. The problem isn't just with ISIS. The problem is with Islamic ideology. Islam has been at war with Western/classical civilization since its founding. Islamic ideology and Sharia law are 100% incompatible with Western liberal democracies. She cannot refute that the Quran repeatedly calls for violence against non-believers, and praises those who participate in jihad.

> thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

In countries where Islam dominates the culture, minorities suffer and are brutally persecuted. She can argue this is a "cultural" thing, but this is a deflection because Islam has the greatest influence on the culture in those areas and should thus be held accountable.

>No True Scotsman ad infinitum
>retarded false equivalencies with Christianity and the KKK

This has transpired exactly as I predicted it would. Just drop it now, OP. Everything you say to her wll fall on deaf ears.

> If ISIS was following Islam, why would they kill so many Muslims?

Because the Quran tells followers to slaughter hypocrites.

> Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

> Do you know how many Muslims condemn the terrorist attacks?

How many Muslims condemn the calls to violence written in the Quran? Will she disavow the 100+ verses that call for violence against nonbelievers?

Conversation with a Muslim:

Me: "Excuse me sir, do you happen to know where 4th street is?"

Muslim: "Yes. It is right ove--Allah Akbar!"

KABOOM!

Also, ask her how you're supposed to believe anything she's saying since her holy book commands her to lie to unbelievers.

Call her out on "crazy tiny minority" figure.

It is NOT a tiny minority that support these attacks. It is a huge percentage, totalling up to 100's of million of people. There has been extensive polling to support this.

Here's a good video describing the statistics: youtu.be/g7TAAw3oQvg

And the idea that they are crazy is wrong too. All of the Sept. 11 attackers were college educated, some with PhDs.

I have, I know when I'm talking to a wall of naivety and I don't want to was my time arguing something that won't result in either of us changing our opinions or ways. She's still sending me messages about how I should stop reading propoganda and buying into what all the meanies are saying about her beautiful loving cult

This. Time to break out that Pew study, OP. You can't let the "tiny minority" bullshit go unchecked.

The 'muh 1.8billion muslims would have killed us by now' is a fallacy. The west has enough nucleae deterrents to wipe muslims off the map if they tried a conventional invasion or attacks got serious enough. Muslims would lose a total war engagement.

>her beautiful loving cult
To be fair her interpretation is actually beautiful, at least compared to the fundamental interpretation.

The problem is that it takes some serious cherry picking and wrangling to get there.

I think the best strategy is to tell her how much you like her interpretation, but that hundreds of millions disagree with her. Then show her the video I linked above or find the polls directly. Someone posted an infographic also in the Pt. 1 thread.

But good job having a civil discussion with her. I dont think you can change her mind because it will break her core beliefs about the world, but you never know. I say that as a former fundamental christian.

Also asks why she believs in a monotheistic religion in the first place.

Also important to clarify that religion heavily influences culture and vice versa, they are not exclusive to each other.

OP's a faggot. you really suck at this. learn some facts man. say something at least halfway convincing. shit. this almost feels like a false flag its that bad.

You're not arguing the right points..you need to study debate and read more post graduate works.

His argument founds itself on the idea that ISIS isn't the "true" Muslim faith, it's culture. A disproportionate amount of cultures around the world that oppress women today stem from Muslim teachings, specifically that a woman must obey her husband. He's using the "no true scotsman" fallacy and defending his own branch of Muslim faith, that's not an argument.

Remember you're debating the good and bad of Islam, not ISIS and the Muslim community. You can condemn it as an ideology that inspires hatred and is the root of all of these cultures that practice human rights violations, and believe they follow the quaran. It doesn't matter if it's not "his true" brand of Islam, it's a largely followed brand of Islam. Don't fall for "no true scotsman"

they also remember getting their asses kicked in the crusades.

good argument user

he's treading on hollow ground. Youve got to slow drip the facts in there without coming off blatantly ''''''racist/xenophobic''''''"

I would like to get better at debating, is there anything specific link wise you could shoot me to steer me in the right direction?

She already called all my sources propoganda before I posted anything so the probability of her actually reading what is posted is low. You can parade facts in people's faces all you want but it's on them to accept them as fact

Thanks OP, this is giving good insight into how people deny the obvious.

Which is hard to do when the opposition is in full bore YOURE WRONG YOURE WRONG YOURE WRONG mode. Anything I could have justified against Islam she would have pushed off on being the sole responsibility of ISIS and ISIS having no relationship with Islam because they're politically motivated, despite the fact that's their political views are religiously motivated

Kek

maybe ask about how she feels about Christians being considered kafir and does that make them considered not an innocent maybe? maybe quote a scripture that states what you are supposed to do with unbelievers first to set it up. Just spitballing

learn to spot the logical fallacies

take some time to study the trivium- grammar logic and rhetoric

here's a decent place to start: > youtube.com/watch?v=02LrATtFGvs&feature=BFa&list=UUnYKjBrI1ErwhDprla7Unwg&lf=plcp

Yeah user, it's like youre talking to a brick wall. She's deflecting almost everything you say with a no true Scotsman argument. "Real islam is peaceful, no true muslim would hurt people." In conjunction with also moving the goal posts quite a bit ie "Islam isn't the reason why gays are executed, it's the culture!" I just don't think you'll be able to get through to her. She's stuck in her ways. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Read scholarly articles, understand the writing portion of the GRE exam, that's a good pointer.

Honestly, it's not something you learn from a link, you need cool, clear headed thinking. Some good advice would be to distance yourself and keep the main ideas of the discussion in mind. It's evidence-->conclusion, always, and watch out for fallacies.

Also came to my mind (this'll probably be my last post itt), remind him of the first caliphs. I read a book recommended by the WSJ about the history of the caliphate, even since the beginning, when Muhammad died, it was bathed in blood. The first caliph had to slaughter anyone that didn't pay homage to him as Muhammad's successor, and the second burned any quaran that differed from his version. No other Abrahamic religions did anything like this.

>She already called all my sources propoganda
Did you show her the pew polls or the video I mentioned?

If someone calld Pew propoganda, you can honestly ask them if they are a conspiracy theorist.

Tell her she doesn't speak for all Muslims and her math is wrong.

Get a load of this faggot

Grow a pair and tell that camel jockey to fuck off with her #notallmuslims bullshit

OP if you want to be able to debate with Islam's apologists read "Factual Persuasion: Changing the Minds of Islam's Supporters"
There's a .pdf of it online last I checked.

Can't help but read anything from flag related in a poo accent.

I unironically love Pajeets.

A great way to debate "muslims" like her, is to do so as if YOU are arguing as an muslim zealot and use their own doctrine to justify isis and terrorists attacks. Of course you need to know the life of muhammad and the doctrine of islam.

Oi pussy, I posted this in the last thread, get your "Not all" numbers from here:
thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx
Shit is citing credible sources. It's not RWDS propaganda.

>I would like to get better at debating
One concept that you could have applied is to recognize what they are stating as facts and question them. For example, her "99% of muslims are peaceful" statement, ask her to back that up.

Also look at the presuppositions for their statements, for example, if I ask you "what color are you going to paint your house", there are 2 presuppositions: first that you have a house, and second that you are going to paint it.

The other things to recognize, and this is contrary to what I just said, is that usually the best way to convince people is with am emotional appeal.

For example, you could say "think of all the lives lost due to islamic terror. Even if its just one percent, is it really worth it? All the families shattered. It's not worth it." (Weak, I know, but it's an example of an emotional appeal).

One more thing, often its better to stick to one rock solid point and hammer it home. This is what Tucker Carlson does and he almost always makes his guests look like fools.

Literally just ask why she praises a warlord that slaughtered thousands in the name of his religion. Say you would be just as disgusted/concerned by a religion whose founding figure and focal point is Genghis Khan or Attila.

This is historical fact and not the sort of fact that these cunts can just handwave away.

Something interesting to remember with the peaceful majority argument - at the outbreak of the Russian Civil War was 125.6 million people in the Russian Empire and under 20 thousand Bolsheviks, and even at the peak of its power Nazi Germany only had 2 million members out of a population of 65 million.

The peaceful majority is often just the passive majority.

If she brings up the imperialism argument - ask why tibetans arent suicide bombing the Chinese or indeed why South Americans arent suicide bombing the US

OP, you're not very clever, are you?

You made a whole thread asking for advice. Hundreds of anons gave you statistics, data, information.

You ended up getting bogged down in "how hard" Muslims condemn acts of terror. Which is just playing into her argument, since when the other person arguing is very unsure of their argument, placing them in a position where there is no proof on either side is just death. You have to move on from that immediately. Switch arguments, keep them simple. Getting bogged down will always favor the one leading, which in your case is her. Don't be sucha vagina. Make her explain herself - ask her if she's using taqiya against you. Make her deny it.

But yeah, you're absolutely hopeless. There was a whole thread of masses of data and you're arguing about pointless stuff.

>debating with a woman
Sweetie, I...

>debating Saracens
>conversing with Saracens

There is no debate to be had, OP. Simply inform them that they do not belong in the West and will be removed regardless of what they say, do or think.

You (and millions more) are still corrupted by this "enlightenment" tier nonsense about how you can only support actions on abstract universal scales like "oh I can only say Islam is bad because it threatens by artificially constructed conception of human rights and liberal notions of equality" No. They are an enemy group within our territory and are taking finite resources which belong to our group and not theirs. They are causing the deaths of our group and need to be removed. No "debate" needs to happen at all.

I hate it when they bring up the Qur'an. The Qur'an is only part of the Islamic teachings, because you need the Hadiths and the Sira as well to understand the context. The context is dependent on what Mohammed has done, his campaigns and other actions. It gets much worse with context.

Also the Qur'an is a pain in the ass to read from beginning to end, because the verses repeat themselves AND THEY ARE NOT IN CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER. Since the concept of abrogation exists, you would first have to read it from oldest to newest. Why? Because in Islam a newer verse annuls a previous verse. For example - in the beginning Mohammed said to be peaceful during Ramadan, in later times he said Ramadan is great for performing sneak attacks on the unsuspecting infidels. So the old verse is annulled/abrogated and only the new verse is valid.

Also, Aisha was a child when Mohammed fucked her. He was a pedophile.

Sahih al-Bukhari 3896 — Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married `Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

Sahih al-Bukhari 5158 — The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with `Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Sahih Muslim 3311 — 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

Sunan Abu Dawud 2116 — The Messenger of Allah married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said: or Six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old.

>Hundreds of anons gave you statistics, data, information.
Maybe that's the problem, maybe it was too much to ingest?

>Muslims god is the same god as christians and jews, as islam is also an abrhamic religion.

She is a Mushrik for associating Allah as being a Jewish Christian God, this penalty is death as a kafir. and is an unforgivable sin by allah There are no partners or equals to allah, there is only one true god and nothing else can be called Allah. The first and the last.

Billboard in Indiana

Shia use taqiyya, more than likely this hoe is sunni who prefer to obfuscate the truth instead of outright lie. Forgot what the Arabic word for it is tho

Ask her JUST ONE question - Did Mohammed have sex with a nine year old girl when he was 52 years old?

That's all you need to know about the cult of Islam.

No, the problem is you're stupid. The info was filtered, spoon-fed and handed out like 4 hours ago. The meaningful statistics were not that many that you couldn't sift through them.

Good attempt user. Hope this exchange inspires you to gird yourself with knowledge.

I mean, the Pew poll is utter horseshit but I don't think that matters to anyone here so go for it

salon.com/2014/10/13/bill_maher_and_sam_harris_proof_is_wrong_their_argument_is_based_on_an_untrustworthy_poll/

Knew she was full of shit at this point. Too bad none of it is true.

Few things to consider OP:

KKK number 5000 in the U.S. and there are close to 250 million Whites in America. The KKK represent 0.002% of all Whites/Christians in America.

Also, you may want to tell her a few things about Mohammud:

Mohammed molested a 9 year old child, Aisha (she was 6 when her married her, and 9 when he had sex with her).

Mohammed amputated the arms and legs of 3 Berber men, gouged out their eyes, and let them die in the desert sun because they had renounced Islam and stolen his camels.

Mohammed killed an old lady, by tying a rope to each of her leg and then tying the ropes to two camels, and having them go until she was split in two.

Mohammed spied on his step sons wife in her tent when she was naked, and he then, had his step son divorce her just so he could have sex with her.

Mohammed had 9 wives (that his followers would brag about him having sex with all in one night), and several concubines / sex slaves.

Mohammed had slave girs / concubines that he had sex with them, after having killed their fathers, brothers and husbands.

Mohammed tortured a Kike by kindling a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was near death, and then he beheaded him.

that article is major bullshit. it's tactical nihilism in its purest form

This bitch is all kinds of retarded. She keeps bringing up kkk as if it's relevant to the conversation at all, which is disingenuous on her part. She's spouting talking points. Sounds like she's had to do this before.

Don't waste your time. I'd like it to be true, but all this person is giving you is platitudes. Believe me, I've always been open and eager to hear a Muslim speak the truth.

>>>>reddit

So brainstorming reasons why he didn't follow the thread's advice makes me stupid? Nice logic.

>Salon is more reputable than pew
Kek

I thought you were him. Were you in his first thread.

OP, do yourself a favor and get yourself a copy of a book called Catastrophic Failure by Steven Laughlin. If you don't have time to read it, look up his "red pill briefs" on YouTube. Absorb them. Look up his sources and absorb those as well. You'll be a lot better equipped for this kind of thing. Also, debate 101: unless your end goal is to trigger, don't debate someone unless A) you are going to win and B) you're going to win in front of an audience. Your goal should be exposing them as the slimy taquiyya rats they are in front of others Private debate accomplishes nothing.

This isnt news OP? It's island version of copy pasta.

Islam *

>Poll is invalid because people are literally scared of being murdered for voicing their true opinion.
This paints Islam in an even worse light. Basically he's saying hundreds of millions of people believe that they will be murdered for speaking out against the most fundament and barbaric beliefs in islam.

When I debate Muslims, I always use the following argument and it ALWAYS BTFO. So try this.

Islam necessarily says that the Prophet Muhammad is an example of what man should strive to be. He is quite literally the example for the Muslim World.

>Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.
(Qur'an, 33:21)."

>themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/islam-the-crimes-of-prophet-mohammed/

Every single one of those crimes must be defended. If she fails to defend ANY of his horrific crimes, she has insulted the Prophet and is worthy of death. Not only is she criticizing her Prophet, but also questioning God's judgement & revelation (basically declaring apostasy). Like I said, no Muslim I know is ever able to refute this logic, because it's so sound.

Np. Yeah I was in the first thread. I'm actually pretty disappointed because I wanted to see him stump her. Instead he just babbled about the weakest points and let her trample him with lies.

user has a very good point here.

So I urge you to consider my post and trigger her.
Call her a Shirk for associating the one true god with the jewish and christian god, an un forgivable sin by allah. She is a kafir and the penalty is death. It is the will of allah.

You're retarded for writing paragraphs of dumb opinion to convince someone of something.
If she's a girl just fuck her and appeal to her on an emotional level.
If he's a guy, fuck him and assert your dominance that way

>Islamic ideology and Sharia law are 100% incompatible with Western liberal democracies.
This. /thread

The only graphic you need.