Previous thread hit bump limit found here :
The conversation that was occurring began getting centered on creation mythology, free-will, knowledge of good/evil and other very solid concepts. Very interesting bread was being dispensed. Thus, I'd like to keep it going.
Will start by replying to and carrying over some posts.
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
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> I'm a Catholic, and we used to never actually allow plebs to read the Bible.
How can you say this with a straight face and claim this is the word of God meant to redeem souls? Yet it confuses a crap tone of people and requires a PHD in theology? Sounds more like a convoluted revision of esoteric mythos, allegory, metaphor, and knowledge crammed into one book. There is indeed fruit but there is a lot of planted poison from man. Also, alot of fruit was removed by these counsels/theologians you refer to bringing even greater issue with the pronouncement that it's the unfiltered and true word of god.
> This is why. Yes, it's actually quite complicated.
I'm not sure this is the reason for the paradoxes and contradictions. There usually is another root when this is found.
> The thing is, bishops and theologians have over the past 2,000 years addressed your concerns. If you want to know, read the Patristic Fathers, Aquinas, and the documents of the ecumenical councils.
I will. However....
Like the ones who decided what got in the bible?
en.wikipedia.org
The ones who exiled any of the writings that contradicted their agreed upon themes that were inline with and in service to rome?
Like how this occurred for 100s of years resulting in probably hundreds if not thousands of pages missing from the bible?
en.wikipedia.org
Yet people claim the bible is the word of God as if man didn't meddle with it, edit it, and banish certain inconvenient words?
> Truly understanding Christianity is on a similar levels of complexity as passing a bar exam.
Man's spiritual Journey is indeed complex. It is made more complex and harder by the incorectly intentiond meddlings and lies of man.
i'm feeling E N E R G I Z E D guys
anybody wanna do some jumping jacks to get their blood flowing?
we've got a lot to read and archive today, so let's all get going and get some ENERGY.
feeling energetic let's have some energy this is a good feeling this could be a great day of happenings let's all find some energy!
Bramp...
lets get the thread going again anons...
It had a good deal of activity and we were covering some interesting ground towards the end.
AAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAAHHAH
there are no more freemasons dumbass that shit hasn't been a thing since like the fucking early United States
>How can you say this with a straight face and claim this is the word of God meant to redeem souls?
That of itself is fine. We just have to be wary about where interpretation and truth is obfuscated with dogma meant to conrtol.
> We just have to be wary about where interpretation and truth is obfuscated with dogma meant to control.
I agree with this.
However, I also think a big issue remains with how the Bible was construct. Elite counsels decided on what books to put in it and which ones not to based on agendas in line with Rome. I don't think you can ignore this and claim that the bible is the complete word of God and cannot be edited when it was indeed edited heavily over 100s of years and this edited is documented as historical record.
Also, there are big issue when you find huge paradoxes, conflicts, and contradictions in the creation and prologue mythos and then are told that there are probably hundreds if not 1000s of pages of text missing because an elite counsel said so. I mean come on. I agree that there's fruit but its dangerous fruit given what underlied its creation. It's no wonder Abrahamic religions are in constant conflict. The conflicts lie in the stuns that were pulled regarding its authoring and the bold assertion that its God's word and its final and cannot be edited less you be sent to hell.... This is the root of the dogma
Also, I want to carry over this from the previous thread :
This is the paradox a lot of religions end up in that frame human being's notable free-will and agency above other animals as being a 'fall'. This is very paramount and present paradox of the Bible. If you'd like, you can even rewind this back to the prologue story of heaven/angels/lucifer. It's the same prototypical story accept angels are held to even higher standard/degree as is lucifer. If one is crafty enough, you can extract considerable meaning from these stories and framings.
The issue is, it takes a considerable mount of understanding to do so. Meanwhile, people take the story as being literal and literally believe there's some boogie man with horns and a tale known as satan roaming the earth who fell from heaven. If the angels being even more closer to god and lucifer being that much closer managed to rebel then there is obviously yuuuggee amounts of information missing to this story and obviously there's some very serious things going on beyond adam/eve/etc.
It's gets to the point where you ask? Why aren't there like 10 chapters of the bible dedicated to detailing this then? Why didn't God send messengers to talk about that stuff?.. That's the meat.
Why didn't adam and eve ask about this stuff? When they were made aware of good/evil, to what degree? Why weren't the aware of the full back story related to heaven/hell/lucifer/satan/the rebellion/etc
You can ask a lot of deep questions about the bible's framing of this. The issue is, you can read deeply into various other mythology and religious texts too and ask similar questions albeit along different narratives.
This narrative has never sat well with me. Over many years, i've plucked some fruit. However, even as a child I was not a fan and often poked holes in it.
No one gave any solid answers or responses to this.
>I don't think you can ignore this and claim that the bible is the complete word of God and cannot be edited when it was indeed edited heavily over 100s of years and this edited is documented as historical record.
Exactly. It's a shame too, since the removed books are actually pretty rad. Especially Enoch.
>Also, there are big issue when you find huge paradoxes, conflicts, and contradictions
I do think a lot of those are more to do with interpretation/translation. Obvious one being the Seven Days creation bit. If you took it literally, it was made in the amount of time it takes Auspost to get something from their DC to your postbox. But looking at the wording used originally, it could well be alluding to the Big Bang, and the eras of astronomical formation and evolution.
>It's gets to the point where you ask? Why aren't there like 10 chapters of the bible dedicated to detailing this then?
It's like a game of telephone. Where certain things get passed to the wrong people, who add their own views and pass it on. Combine that with how much European Pre-Christian stuff was added to Christianity, and there's a lot we take for granted which shouldn't.
>Red pill me on Freemasons
Most of their power has faded away.
There's really not much to redpill you on. Freemasonry nowadays has become nothing more than a country club. Very few of its actual members are interested in the occult / esoteric knowledge that freemasonry offers.
I joined for that very reason and can tell you there's nothing in it that isn't already published. Readh some Manly P. Hall, Albert Pike, Albert Mackley, Aleister Crowley. You'll get much more freemasonry in their works than actual freemasonry.
Just to drop some knowledge on you though:
Everything is cyclical. There will never be an end to evil, likewise there will never be an end to good. War, famine, death, love, birth, companionship, these things will always exist in some universe. Humanity will die out, and if we don't colonize other planets, it will be an end to our species but the beginning for an infinite number of other species.
Reality is a system of planes inhabited by other beings. We are able, through vibrations, to reach higher and lower planes and interact with any beings living in those dimensions. There are an infinite number of universes. Each universe is a bubble. Each bubble is infinite.
Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, we have always been and will always be.
> Exactly. It's a shame too, since the removed books are actually pretty rad. Especially Enoch.
Indeed. I can only imagine what other books have been left out of the bible. The books of Enoch actually got into a lot of the things I had open ended questions about. I wasn't even aware it existed until many years of slogging around on the internet in my own personal journey. Bring that book up in a lot of Christian circles and you'll be called a heretic which leads one actually further in pursuit of things like the esoterics... Which upon digesting, wonder why in the hell it gets some much negativity.
> I do think a lot of those are more to do with interpretation/translation. Obvious one being the Seven Days creation bit. If you took it literally, it was made in the amount of time it takes Auspost to get something from their DC to your postbox. But looking at the wording used originally, it could well be alluding to the Big Bang, and the eras of astronomical formation and evolution.
Indeed, but imagine how scattered the body of Christians are given the 1000 and 1 interpretations/translations especially when people hang the : If you edit, misinterpret the words, or go outside the bible into unapproved texts, you're dealing with satan and going to hell... This foolishness is what keeps a good number of the abrahamic religion followers in the dark. It's an outright tragedy and its playing out in the world currently.
>there's a lot we take for granted which shouldn't.
Indeed. It causes a great deal of confusion and division unnecessarily. I long for a deep discussion about the whole lucifer/heaven prologue story but It's nearly impossible. The times that I've had them with sound theologians, they always defer to it being a metaphor when stumped. I get the metaphors and the fruit therein but my issue is ... It reads as literal and the whole story hinges upon it. And yet..
Lots of masonic hand signs and numbers in many of the staged hoaxes. This hand sign from the Manchester hoax means either 13 or 31. M (for Mason) being the 13th letter. 'Lying' is 31 in English reduced gematria. Basically, a bunch of criminals. They are major into the transgender thing too, like their Jew masters. They used the term 'profane' instead of 'goyim'.
I'm a freemason. Nothing but a brotherhood of men like a fraternity. The true Redpill is realizing the world is fucked and people at the top are out for themselves. No conspiracy, no grand plan, no easy answers. We are all just playing for keeps.
> Very few of its actual members are interested in the occult / esoteric knowledge that freemasonry offers.
This goes for life in general. Few people actually seek to dig underneath the surface or look behind the curtains. Some even fight it when it is freely offered.
Just to drop some knowledge on you though:
> Everything is cyclical. There will never be an end to evil, likewise there will never be an end to good. War, famine, death, love, birth, companionship, these things will always exist in some universe. Humanity will die out, and if we don't colonize other planets, it will be an end to our species but the beginning for an infinite number of other species.
And there it is. Why is it that this is the corner stone of some of the most spiritually advanced religions yet is swept under the carpet, framed, and manipulated in a convoluted tale in the bible whereby its black and white .. beginning and end w/o reasoning as to why. This is the crux of the problem with the creation and end story in the bible. It plays with this concept and twists it into a controlled demotion narrative as it never has happened before and wont happen again. Am i seeing the ultimate red-pill?
>Bring that book up in a lot of Christian circles and you'll be called a heretic
Always makes me sad. I mean, yea, certainly have some skepticism about anything "found" like that, but when it's good info, and most likely legit, there's no reason to discard it.
>If you edit, misinterpret the words, or go outside the bible into unapproved texts, you're dealing with satan and going to hell.
Yea, the threat is utter tosh. By all means, have an approved list. But not letting people look elsewhere period makes that position look weak. Like it can't be defended from outside.
>I long for a deep discussion about the whole lucifer/heaven prologue story but It's nearly impossible.
In the Bible, you mean? Because there are Judaic texts which talk about that. But because of that, they get disregarded out of hand. Personally i'm dubious on them, but they do offer nice context, even if you don't accept them.
>They are major into the transgender thing too
Now that's a new one.
Well first I'd like to say that there are branches of Judaism (Kabbalah), Christianity (Orthodox Mysticism) and Islam (Sufism) that offer a bit more esoteric spirituality in them, but you're right. The Abrahamic religions are all pretty black and white (you're either with me or against me, heaven or hell for eternity, etc.).
My honest thoughts are that people are afraid of life being cyclical (which it is). They want an end to the story, a good ending. They want to live their life and go to heaven forever. They don't want to think about the concept that they will keep coming back over and over for eternity. Instead of seeing the bright side of reincarnation / cycles (yes there will be suffering, but there will still be love and goodness), they see it as "yes there may be good and love, but I will still suffer and feel pain for eternity".
Jainism is perhaps the most interesting to me in that we will all reincarnate into every being. So you will eventually (or may have already been) reincarnated as your mother, wife, father, cousin, enemy, etc. So they take the view that if you hurt somebody, you're literally hurting yourself in either a past or future carnation. Similarly if you help / love someone, you will reap that benefit or have already reaped that benefit.
Literally:
>Evil came out of the sky like a lightning bolt
>Lucifer plus 1/3 of the angels fall to earth
>Lucifer tempts Eve to eat the fruit
>She does
>In the Bible, you mean? Because there are Judaic texts which talk about that. But because of that, they get disregarded out of hand. Personally i'm dubious on them, but they do offer nice context, even if you don't accept them.
Yep, I was referring to the bible. It doesn't get into the background story in depth to a degree of satisfaction regarding Heaven/Angels/Lucifer and the coinciding drama that unfolded. I am quite read on what the Bible talks about and have studied, analyzed it, and discussed it at length. I have meditated on it deeply, asked God for guidance and got some red-pills from the sky God such that I gained fruit from the Bible's mythos. However, it just never sat fully right with me. A lot seemed missing.
> Because there are Judaic texts which talk about that.
Can you provide source sauce? I'd be looking for something that extends beyond what is discussed in the bible. Even still, I feel I'll be stuck with trying to understand why its a re-occuring theme in Abrahmic religions :
> God's creations rebel on him in heaven and in earth...
> What other creations have? How many times before? In which realms?
> Why is this a consistent theme?
I feel like this is where I have a break with the mythos and seek more higher minded constructions found in various works and through things unfolding in the world.
So, please source me user-kun as to the judaic texts.
>Yep, I was referring to the bible
That is why i'm quite willing to go into pre-Talmudic Judaen texts. If we're taking some of their stuff, what's wrong with the rest?
>Can you provide source sauce?
Tanakh i think? Just got to run out (posting this for bump), and will give you a better answer when i come back.
I know the Qabbalah/Zohar texts have some.
They don't exist you scitzo conspiratard lol sage
>Bring that book up in a lot of Christian circles and you'll be called a heretic
That's because it claims the Arch Angel Micheal is Jesus. There obviously was a book of Enoch, it is referenced in the bible, but that version found is heretical.
There's multiple world-views that can help you with this. Despite the ancient astronaut theory being memed online, it is pretty interesting and reading the Bible with this world view can be incredibly trippy.
You can find a PDF of Chariot of the Gods online which you may have already read. Graham Hancock's Fingerprints of the Gods / Magicians of the Gods are both good reads too.
> Judaism (Kabbalah), Christianity (Orthodox Mysticism) and Islam (Sufism) that offer a bit more esoteric spirituality in them.
True. I've done some reading into them. Kabbalah's framing was quite interesting. I never got around to Orthodox Mysticism and Sufism. Can you give some pointers? I guess I just need to accept that I need such things on my journey at this time and focus on them as opposed to getting caught up with what is happening in the mainstream currents in the world.
> On cycles
Yes, the Universe even demonstrates this over and over on all scales. Such a framework of conceptualization is far more in line with nature and true what one can see if they chose. I guess I just need to go with this more dominant belief that I have and seek material that helps me grow and be in it and just be brave and leave my older frameworks behind. Thank you for discussing this with me user. I think I am starting to realize what I must do to continue growing.
Can you source sauce me on Christianity (Orthodox Mysticism) and Islam (Sufism) and also any cyclical red-pill material you have?
We live on the stage. These freaks farm us from the backstage.
i know a dude, friend of a friend from a while ago, we went over to his place (fancy hills part of town, LA) to play poker one night. i noticed a bunch of mason symbols all over the place. in private i asked him if his dad was a freemason and he started freaking out telling me not to tell anybody else.
anyway point is he never came off as an exceptionally intelligent guy, but he got a position at NASA a couple years ago. dude is maybe 27 or 28 now.
freemasonry gets you places you wouldnt otherwise be able to reach.
Fyodor Dostoevsky is the backbone of Orthodox literature. His most famous book is probably 'The Brothers Karamazov' which I think you would really enjoy from your initial OP.
Islam on text is very cyclical, I'm not sure why so many Muslims are black and white about it. The Quran itself says that God has created before and will create even after we're all gone. Which really implies that the whole judgement day scene has happened an infinite amount of times throughout the universe (the birth and death of species). The only well-known Sufi mystic authors I know of are all poets like Rumi. Which they can be really enlightening reads though.
To be honest you sound very much like a Gnostic just skimming through your beliefs and your problems with mainstream Christianity. Forget the other books, go online and read the Emerald Tablets of Thoth and then Prometheus Rising. From there, feel free to branch out and read the hundreds of great Gnostic literature. Also ask /fringe/ on infinite chan if you have any questions.
> That is why i'm quite willing to go into pre-Talmudic Judaen texts.
> I know the Qabbalah/Zohar texts have some.Tanakh i think?
Thank you user-kun. This is already bearing fruit.
> If we're taking some of their stuff, what's wrong with the rest?
As I said, I have a hang up with the how the prologue story of Lucifer/Angels/God is typically depicted in Christianity. So, i google searched : "Tanakh lucifer" and boom.. already struck gold :
(Excerpt)
In Christianity, Satan is an enemy of G-d, an opposing force, and something very bad. In Christianity, Satan has a level of power that is considered almost equal to that of G-d. In the Christian bible (2 Corinthians 4:3-4), Satan is called the god of this world. However, in Judaism Satan is an agent of G-d, created by G-d for a specific purpose, and something very good. Satan is simply an agent of G-d, just as all the other angels are simply agents of G-d. This is why we frequently see passages where the author appears to interchange G-d and an angel (leading to the often erroneous Christian concept of a christophony).
If we take a look at Isaiah 45:7, we see that Hashem is the creator of everything, as the text says, “bringing forth light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil, I am G-d who does all these things.” In the Jewish bible, everything is under the jurisdiction of G-d and under His power – all forces, even evil forces. Everything comes from G-d, He created everything, good and evil. That being the case, Satan is not a rival of G-d, he is a messenger of G-d and unable to do anything outside of G-d’s will.
In contrast to Christian literature, where Satan is understood to be an evil force, the enemy of G-d, in Jewish literature, he is seen as a blessing to the Jewish people. Why? .. A stumble block allows you to grow.
This is (the) issue of issues.. this framing. The above is far more sound imo. Breeds far more understanding.
So much bread !!!! Weeee !
Thank you user-kun.
Going to be very comfy for some time.
>That's because it claims the Arch Angel Micheal is Jesus.
The Ethiopic pre-Christian one? Because i certainly don't remember that, and it seems like it'd stand out.
Fallen Angels in Jewish, Christian and Mohammedan Literature. A Study in Comparative Folk-Lore by Leo Jung might strike your fancy.
>That being the case, Satan is not a rival of G-d, he is a messenger of G-d and unable to do anything outside of G-d’s will.
Bingo bango. Good and evil are just matters of perspective, after all. What's normal for the spider is chaos to the fly.
>A stumble block allows you to grow.
Ayup. Like i was saying in the last thread, you can't grow without adversity.
>Now that's a new one.
This is THE belief of the occult. 9/11 was an occult ritual to destroy gender, so these things can be more open. They all seem to be weird, sexually.
Convert 9/11 into roman numerals and you get IX XI. Convert that back to numbers (English reduced gematria) and you get 69 96. 69 is associated strongly with masonry. 96 is 'Freemason' in English ordinal gematria. Just like the 96 who supposedly died at Hillsborough. They love to mock the masses with their dirty hoaxes, and wind them up in the media.
Lol and wow. And i thought Bible code was comedy gold.
>and you get 69 96
Sorry, 96 69. I =9. X = 6.
Excellent. This is so much of what I was looking to get at. You and the other user-kun provided me with some very delicious bread. I can't say enough w.r.t to how thankful I am. I feel re-energized and reinvigorated. Supa tasty even after a few bites.
>I =9. X = 6.
Yea, how are you coming up with that? Remember, I is a vowel. And you seem to be using the wrong base for X.
holy fuck check this
>IᖴᑌᑕK TOᑎIGᕼT .ᑕOᗰ