I'm a weak skelly and I want to change that, but how the fuck am I supposed to build mass without meat (full of estrogen, so eating a lot of meat for the sake of manning up would be counterproductive)? I don't want to eat oats all the time, I'm fucking fed up with it. What should I eat to build up my mass without growing tits and pussy?
Also general Iron Pill thread, I guess.
move to somewhere rural, keep your own cows/chickens/ducks/pigs
also get swole from the labor
steak and eggs?
stop being a bitch? do pushups?
your protein requirements are not nearly as high as you may think. probably around .75g per pound per day. and this is doable on any normal diet. eat when you're hungry.
the actual key is going to the gym 3-4x per week for a year. that should get you 90% where you'll be naturally, unless you're really fucking something up in your diet.
this force feeding shit is 100% a meme pushed by guys who won't just admit to taking big doses of steroids. the rock with his 14lbs of cod, for example. every supplement ad ever.
If you have money you can buy the good stuff. Otherwise I'd say the benefit of building mass using whatever's cheap will outweigh the dangers.
It's a complicated question to answer all at once, though. It really comes down to running the numbers on your diet and picking out what kinds of things you can put in there to get enough protons.
Lots of people who hunt sell their leftovers to butchers.
Find a place that receives it and purchase your protein there.
Otherwise buy a goat and kill it yourself.
Yeah bro meat is full of estrogen.
why the fuck are you asking here and not /fit/?
"phyto" literally means "plant," you moron.
FFS People!
/thread
there is literally an entire board dedicated to this kind of stuff
...
It depends. Some people who don't run the numbers don't really get what even .75g/day means or why they're getting fat or can't escape skeletor.
1g is fine for me on average, but cranking up to 1.5g absolutely makes a difference if I need muscle recovery ASAP for a week or whatever.
And 90% of your goal in a year is really vague because most people don't even know what their goal is. But if you say visible changes in 3mo once you get it down (similar timeframe for CNS adaptation, habit modification) then that's a more effective milestone.
>not switching to organic meat
It's almost like you hate your body.
no shit sherlock
a phytoestrogen is a plant-derived substance which binds to human estrogen receptors, thus mimicking the effect of estrogen hormones
moron
Check out vegan gains I guess, he's a bit of a psycho though
His argument was that meat doesn't have estrogen, idiot.
labor for sure, go help build a house and see how much stronger you will get too i have a bag of cement ill lift and throw also two five gallon buckets filled with water try walking around with those for anwhile more physical activities, do alot of what they call dips im not sure what people call them but helps with your swing i know that, burpies are great but I learned a weird way of doing them so it's kinda different
>.75g per pound
>mixing metric and imperial units
show me where he argued that
it really doesn't, though. you're lying in bed thinking "damn, i really had more protein today (and, importantly, overall calories)" and then boom you feel like you've recovered better. i dont really know what that means. less doms? maybe you're adapted to the training better. maybe you didn't go as hard in the gym. the consensus now is around .75g for ideal muscle growth. my point though is that diet really doesn't matter. you have people thinking eating a soybean is going to give them tits. it doesnt matter. bodybuilding = drugs. natural bodybuilding is just about lifestyle and will never give great results to most of the population, so it's best not to agonize over. eat when you're hungry, don't when you're not.
i meant 90% of your maximum natural limit for gaining muscle.
gallon of milk a day
> 0.83 metric scoops
that's just a workout thing I'd do eating wise, just beans ramen and steak, that's all I eat I eat like a fucking slob and workout and went from 150 to 180 not sure the timeline but if your a skinny fuck just do all that, i just focus on strength not mass but to each there own
protein powder, meat, cheese, eggs and not being a little whiny bitch trying to find excuses not to hit the gym is a good start.
Beans.
They are cheap as fuck and high in protein.
No, not doms. Actual muscle damage and wanting to get back together ASAP rather can cause further damage.
I'm not against .75g at all. I don't give a shit about consensus, but I think that's a pretty good target to start out with and see where to go from there. And also not eating when you're not hungry is fantastic advice for fatties -- I had that revelation in high school, and it's exactly the sort of CNS adjustment you want if you've developed a habit of overeating.
But there's literally nothing wrong with using more protein to check if that's something missing. I don't spend all of my time recovering from injuries, so I'm not going to autistically argue that 1g or 1.5g is the magic number. I'm going to argue with "try and see what works for you."
Come work on my construction sight for a few months, you will be rich and ripped
yes. just trying to save the guy some money and keep him from falling prey to the snake oil supplement/fitness industry
Where do you get the idea that meat is full of estrogen, especially in Poland?
Kaszanka, beans, chickpeas and turkey's leg are good options
Turkey in Europe have less hormones than chicken
Shit sorry guys forgot about /fit/. I only use Sup Forums nowadays and got so used to it that I honestly didn't think about it. My bad.
Self-sage so the thread slides, but feel free to turn it into general Iron Pill, as said in OP, if you want.
A family business once came to pour a new sidewalk for the house down the road. Holy shit that guy's sons were ripped to shreds. I wanted to give them more food though because if they're working that hard they might as well pack on a ton of muscle for free while they're at it.
t. have poured cement before, constructed things, etc. on the side. Absolutely 100% what our sons should be doing instead of immigrants.
see this, im telling ya, youll have a grip from hell that not even donald trump could fuck with
Growing tits from chicken breasts. Wew lad u are the inpersination of a retard. Estrogen is also anabolic u fucking dumb nigger. The more estrogen you consume the more Testosterone will your Body Produce. Do. you really think eating checken will rise your estrogen Levels? This is some next Level retard oh em gee.
falling for the estrogen milk jew, bergjude
its like you want to advertise your shitty cheese and milk
If your /fit/nes has the end goal to keep rapefugees out of Poland is not that off topic
raise and kill your own
also working in construction is like being in here, you can say what you want and nobody gives a fuck i think more of the younger generation should do it to avoid from being a cuck or a fag,
Yeah, the rapefugee crisis and getting redpilled on Sup Forums turned me from libshit into a conservative patriot, now I want to join and serve in military (and perhaps smash some pussy beforehand, gotta lose that v-card), and growing some muscles is a means to achieve that.
saying and doing are two different things user go get up and do those things if thats really what you want
Eat everything that moves and lift heavy weights. Works for me, but I'm mesomorph.
It's useful, too. You can save a lot of money if you know how to do your own shit just a little bit. Your friends will ask you for help. You might get job offers if small-time contractors see you know give a damn and are willing to work.
Extremely redpilled.
Actually, testosterone converts to estrogen. If you have excess estrogen, your body assumes you must have been producing too much testosterone and shuts down your testosterone.
you're taking the wrong turn and really stalling by trying to make nitpicky dietary tweaks. you go to the gym for a year, 3-4 times per week, 45min per visit, doing the absolute most basic stuff with the heaviest weight you can use on that day while doing the exercise correctly.
everything else not only barely matters but is also a distraction. there's nothing you can do with your diet to make a dent in your natural daily fluctuations in hormone levels, let alone have enough impact that will affect your physique. skip 100% of the reading and forum posting i mean 100% except this post here and get to a gym and lift the weights in the gym.
GOMAD + SS you DYEL
>sage
Also it's simply one of the manliest jobs out there. Building something with hard work. If they don't accept me into military (they might, I have 15% vision power in one eye. I just hope they look at that A category in my military identity card and accept me without further checking, dunno what the procedure is tho), I hope to get into construction.
As absolutely right you are about actually fucking lifting, my experience has been that most people who can't seem to get it right are the ones who haven't put in the time to sort their diets either.
Even my stoner friends, what did they do when they got stoned?
>duuude
>hey
>let's build stuff!
>yeah!
There's nothing like looking at what you just did with your own hands. It's what makes legos my #1 favorite redpilled toy for children. I still love playing legos and building shit when there are children around. It never fails to be exciting and fun.
he's not at the point of trying to get it right. he literally does not even lift and he's bordering on show/meet-prep territory worrying about what kind of protein sources he should be using. everyone thinks they have it right, but almost nobody looks like they even lift. and im talking about at my gym. on the internet? forget it.
Meat and working out
Its not hard, work hard then take a day off to let your muscle rebuild. Make sure you're eating enough protein or you will just damage muscle. Eat nuts for snacks (peanuts are best for protein)
you sound like a little pussy bitch, enjoy being a skeleton the rest of your life you vegetarian faggot
Dieting is a bullshit, especially if you are a skelly. Sure, you do have to know basics, like eating protein, carbs etc. Muscle won't grow on soda and chips.
Good thread OP. I'm converting to veganism after researching all the negative effects of meat and dairy but it seems difficult getting enough protein and calories through a plant based diet to put on some muscle. I'm not talking ripped either, just a toned body with a little mass
Dieting is especially important if you are a skelly. They generally do not yet understand how to eat enough. You, seemingly, have cracked the code.
alright. there it is. eating too much protein damages the muscle. get jacked on nuts. other things simply won't do.
these fucking threads man i can't imagine what /fit/ is like
>>
I'm not an ectomorph. I would get fat stuffing myself. But it's not rocket science for skellies, just eat eat and again eat. I wouldn't call that a dieting.
Chicken?
Ah, well I use the word "diet" as a technical term to mean "what you eat." I forgot people usually understand this word to mean "how to eat less."
You're talking about bulking, but that would be counter-productive for skinnyfats who need to cut down the fat first.
>using the term toned
>converting to veganism
Please stop getting fitness and diet advice from Sup Forums and head over to /fit/.
>but that would be counter-productive for skinnyfats who need to cut down the fat first.
>How to spot a dyel.
You can't build muscle without putting up a fat. Even if you eat properly, the ratio would be 70% muscle and 30% fat. Who even cares about fat, if you are skinny fat? Build base and cut later, if you want to be leaner.
HORRIBLE ADVICE
please guys stop this please. you're going to fuck this guy up.
Stop, you have no idea what you are on about. The dyel here is you.
It's just how it works. If you are not juicing, ofc.
Sure thing buddy. Off to Planet Fitness you go.
>Chicken
>Full of estrogen
When will this retarded meme end? At least in the U.S. they don't give hormones to chickens, but they do give them to cows.
emphatically wrong. the only shred of truth is that being heavier allows one to lift heavier in general, and maybe that will translate. but the whole concept of bulking and cutting is a surefire way to take a skinny guy and make him a fat guy for next to no benefit. you do not need to get fat to build muscle. it's harmful and detrimental to give this as advice to someone who wants to start lifting, or really anyone without a very high level, sport-specific goal. and even then we're narrowing it down to what? strongman? powerlifting? maybe certain positions on an NFL field?
>full of estrogen, so eating a lot of meat for the sake of manning up would be counterproductive)?
I think you might be retarded.
Just eat and lift broham.
What's your local football team? make some friends at the stadium there, usually football fans there train in MMA , etc?
>He fell for the organic meme
[HAND RUBBING INTENSIFIES]
Greek yoghurt + flax seex + whey protein in a flavor of your choice
I don't really give a shit about football, I only cheer Poland during World Cup
>and even then we're narrowing it down to what?
You have to build base, get stronger before you can narrow it down to some sport. What's the point of suggesting him doing some shitty brosplit routines? Fastest way to get strong is by eating and doing heavy compound movements. It ain't no rocket science, ffs.
Chicken is not given hormones stop spreading this false meme.
thepoultrysite.com
Well fucking hang out with the big scary fuckers at GKS Katowice or whoever plays near you, get involved in a nationalistic organisation full of these guys, find training partners for gym/mma
1. Meat isn't inherently "full of estrogen". Stop eating shit-tier meats and get locally raised meats that are hormone-free. And, even hormone-heavy meats are better than not eating meat. Stop listening to MUH FOOD PURITY types and vegans.
2. I grew some minor titties from too much soy and vegan processed shit during my 15 years being meat-free. Biggest mistake ever. Took years to undo the damage.
3. Eat eggs, drink whole unpasteurized milk, eat free range organic meats, eat green vegetables, eat starchy carbs, and you'll be fine
An acquaintance of mine once told me how he visited some food production plant and he watched how they produce organic cabbage and normal cabbage. They take cabbage from the same production lane and put them in turns into "normal" box and "organic" box.
This and do squats, lots of squats, they release the most testosterone. Remember, you can never do to many squats
i didn't say anything about split routines. you're saying you need to get fat to build muscle. that one should or must "bulk" to gain muscle. this is terrible, harmful advice and it is also incorrect.
build a base? of what? fat? terrible fucking crazy bad advice.
?
Same situation. I am a skinny fag. Today, I am starting a new diet where eat twice as much food.
Load up on beans, rice, and oats. Drink lots of milk too but get the reduced fat one. I use 2%
Quit being a fag and eat lean meat, fish, and poultry. Avoid tofu and soybeans for protein. That's it
Beef and dairy have hormones, but not chicken. I'm not sure about swine.
Try to but organic beef if you can afford it, but I always buy organic milk.
they do not release any amount of testosterone or gh or whatever you've heard that comes anywhere close to an amount that even approaches appreciable for building muscle. your natural daily fluctuations in test are orders of magnitude greater than what you can get as a spike after doing squats or anything short of taking drugs.
doing a lot of squatting is good advice, but not to alter your hormonal output thats just fucking wacky.
i might be nitpicking now in this thread and i need to exit it. OP highlight my posts they are among the handful of good ones in this thread. the rest are not good and many are actually damaging.
>that pic
I see what you did there
I just think its good to emphasize on squats for beginners because most of them tend to end up putting it off, what you end up with is that curlbro who almost never does legs
>build a base? of what?
Jesus Christ. Just. Stop. I'm done arguing with you. You proved how clueless you are.
Do heavy compound movements (squats, press, bench press, rows, pullups, deadlifts). Eat, eat and again eat and sleep a lot. Don't worry about some meme estrogen in meat. EU regulations are quite strict in that field (not like in US). Don't fucking listen to these memesters like that you have to cut because you are "skinnyfat". You won't be able to cut shit and only will look more miserable in mirror.
>fish
fuck no, fish sold in Poland is terrible. It's either from the Baltic Sea, or fed with food made from the fish from the Baltic Sea
fit is for incel virgins that think gains will get them auto laid, because they read it on the internet at plebbit
Peanut butter, pasta, rice, beans, lentils, all kinds of nuts
Im an ehtnic pole and to be honest i used to freak about this. I used to work out twice a day and eat a totally planned diet to get big for years then i realized im genetically just not a bulky guy. I could get really swole but took significant effort, used to burn my ass that some friends were more naturally suited to it but ive come to accept my leaner but still muscular natural build.
Rippletits pls go
you dumb idiots take a biology course
phytoestrogens bind to estrogen receptors and therefore block estrogen uptake. In other words they reduce the amount of estrogen that can have effects in you.
no, seriously. what are you building a base of? what does "build a base first" mean? you're telling a guy to get fat. it's extremely bad advice and i just worry that people won't see it for what it is.
i don't think you can read. i did not say bulk and cut. i said eat like a normal person. lift. do basic stuff. but lift. bulking and cutting is a complete waste of time. pro bodybuilders on grams of drugs weekly USED to do it. back when DNP wasn't panned for being, you know, lethal. when guys weren't dying from t3 and dropping at shows because they also abused diuretics. now even hardly any pro bodybuilders get fat in the offseason. why would a new, natural lifter want to do that? to "build a base"??? world-class powerlifters and strongmen might do it. again, grams and grams of drugs weekly, and that's just because being heavy simply helps. they're going after world records and are not concerned about health nor looks.
it's terrible fucking advice, fuck off
The only thing you are is a "muh big guy" shill, shillfag.
Slim size is best. Exercise is good for building your muscle and toning up but there is no need to gain tons of mass. Its not better. Its worse and stupid.
