Why do most millenials hate capitalism?

Why do most millenials hate capitalism?

Only a rich minority will ever support capitalism. The rest is made up of idiots who don't see their exploitation and communists.

In the Capitalist system there are losers and winners, and they see themselves as losers. Communism promises they'll get their needs met.

Define "exploited"

How do you hope to achieve communism?

Its the fact that workers are first of all forced to work (or they can starve/freeze to death) and then they don't get paid the full value of their work.

I advocate for global revolution, but in the past decade the collapse of capitalism seems more and more likely.

"Those that do not work do not eat" -Lenin
And define "value of their work".

Be more specific. What does your global revolution look like? How do you assure new hierarchies don't form? What happens if they do?

>Its the fact that workers are first of all forced to work (or they can starve/freeze to death)
What happens if too many people don't want to work in a communist world and just laze around? Are they not also then forced to work?

Also
>the collapse of capitalism seems more and more likely
What about China? What about Macron? Capitalism isn't going anywhere any time soon.

I just want to add that yes everyone that lives off welfare should be shot if they don't want to work.

And by value of their work i mean the "profit" the owner of the factory/company takes. The workers produce the value of the company/factory, while the owner only had to get the company/factory up and running and has to maintain it. This "fee" is offset by the "profit" the owner takes from the workers, which is used for his own leisure and sometimes for investing into his company/factory.

I believe that Marx wanted socialism to be the stage where the new humans born into the system are thought values such as hard work, compassion, equality etc. Through education and a few generations all traces of greed would be wiped out (it is necessary for the entire planet to be communist, so that no capitalists are interfering whit it). In time a new "breed" of people would arise that would share the wealth and care for each other.

>I just want to add that yes everyone that lives off welfare should be shot if they don't want to work
>dude fuck fascism lmao
>but the state should kill all those who disobey as long as they promise they'll wither away one day!

>I believe that Marx
I know that this is what Marx (foolishly) believed. I'm asking you how YOU believe a global revolution will play out. Do you seriously believe that seven billion (and growing) humans will all one day think exactly alike? What happens if, let's say, one hundred years into a communist utopia some people come together and want to form a state and create new hierarchies. Who's going to stop them?

communism is slavery.

Because it implies that only the individual is responsible to fulfill the needs of themselves and we've been told our whole lives that were worth it, we deserve better/more, we shouldn't have to worry about basic essentials, that it's the responsibility of someone else to provide those basic needs. Then we get pumped up with all the hype of the latest and greatest hot topic items and have to make a decision - do we want to have our basic needs or do we want to have the luxuries? But then you remember that someone told you that shelter, food, and water is a human right and you deserve both. So you choose the system that tells you that you can have your cake and eat it too.

Because everyone in our education system tells them to.

So from where does the manager of a factory's income come from? They don't produce anything, but their work is more challenging than grunt work, and would need a higher wage, otherwise no one would be driven to be a manager. Next time, don't pretend you have a problem with how people are forced to work under Capitalism. Nobody forces you to work other than your own stomach, you could be homeless by choice, unlike what you propose, where they would be sent to GULAGs.

coz theyre in so much debt the cucks

>Why do most millenials hate capitalism?
Because they're an anomalous generation who stand to lead less prosperous and healthful lives than their parents, lacking opportunity, property, regular employment, etc. Yet born just in time to see what they're missing out on. It's demoralizing. If that wasn't bad enough, they don't even get to live in the comfort of their own people, as they're being displaced through forces beyond their control--politically, and materially. That's why you see a rise in reactionaries, fascists, and so forth.

And since you're against classic entrepreneurship, I'm curious as to how you believe a new factory could be constructed. The only thing I realistically see is through a centralized economy, and I sincerely hope you aren't dumb enough to support that.

I am not opposed to capitalism, in fact I think it's the best system of economics out there, but much like the Gilded Age the United States needs to crack down, break up, and regulate this gigantic faceless corporations. Unlike companies like Standard Oil, however, it's not a monopoly, but a careful oligarchy of businesses and business owners that are responsible for everything. Basically, what we see is rampant capitalism being furthered by rampant globalism. It needs to be reigned back in so the individual can once again prosper as opposed to those only at the top. As bad as it sounds, the only thing that can protect the citizen from being preyed upon by shit like this is a government that actually cares, and unfortunately we have neither. We need another Taft to come along and help the little guy out. What we're experiencing nowadays is a version of Robber Barons on steroids, and now they're global, unchecked, and wholly able to avoid any responsibility for their actions. The banking system also plays heavily into this.

Even Standard Oil was rapidly losing market share before the government stepped in. The reason these companies can exploit the way they do is specifically because the government props them up. Reduce the complexity of your tax code and business codes, reduce the size of your government, and the big guys will lose their advantages. You don't need an authoritarian government to save you, in fact it'll probably do you dirty in the long run, just like breaking up standard oil has lead to the modern US government corporation relations.

If i'd ran a communist country i'd use a similar system to what Lenin did in his NEP. Basically a mixed economy where the state owns all the companies/land, but the workers/farmers get to keep ~40%(the rest goes to the sate) of their products, which they would trade between themselves.

We never saw Capitalism work in our favor, coming of age during a recession fucked us so now most just want gibs

So you do want a centralized economy. Wonderful. You guys really could not make this easier on me.

I never said we need a tyrannical government, but one that can help regulate an economy to an extent is one that can be beneficial to the citizen. Theodore Roosevelt and Howard Taft did great work in their time as presidents, they were republicans, they also helped expand the government in different ways, through the Sherman Act which I think was the right call and other things like the National Park services and so forth. A government that serves the people is the right system, not one that simply overreaches and acts on your behalf. That's a fine line to tread but I think it had been done once and it can be done again. You are right, the government and big businesses need to get untangled and unfucked from one another. I'm just a southerner seeing a broken system and trying to figure out why.

You do realize that China is building up in a capitalistic manner to challenge the US? Once the US is out of the picture world communism is in our grasp.

Unironically mad at you. Complaining about the recession and wanting more gibs while I permanently live in a state worse than yours because we went too far with the gibs.

You're young, the only way to achieve socialism is through Stalinism. Most Marxists are garbage Social Justice idiots who will put class on the backburner when a tranny or a middle-class college educated black cries that their physical appearance makes them worse off.

So you want stagnation? That's just strange, I have to say.

The average Chink loves privatization, much better off now than when Mao was starving them by the tens of millions.

What's stopping people from reforming the Roman hierarchy?

You have to earn your free shit.

Assuming that the end goal of your socialist state is to establish a classless, moneyless, and--most importantly--stateless society, how are you going to assure that your Leninist state withers away? Why has every single single-party socialist state become totalitarian?

Also
>communist
>country
You were just arguing for global revolution. There are no countries under international communism.

Im not saying im the one wanting gibs im just saying as a whole I think Millenials growing up in a shitty economy has made them think socialism is a preferable alternative

Because as Tocqueville would say:
>Americans are so enamoured of equality, that they would rather be equal in slavery, then unequal in freedom

I don't know. I love capitalism, but then again, I was born in 1986, so I'm right on the edge of Millenial/Gen-X. Also, I have a lot of investments in stocks and bonds, which is the only way to "make" money at a decent rate. Capitalism is competition, and if you hate the system, then build your own company, and pay off your congressmen, and local politicians, and fight dirty like the other big businesses.

Most Millenials watch too much fucking Dragon Ball Z and what the fuck ever and think if they concentrate hard enough, they'll succeed. Meanwhile, smart Millenials are setting themselves up for the future.

>Once the US is out of the picture world communism is in our grasp
You do realize Jack Ma basically came out as a libertarian today? Alibaba is aiming to be the "fifth biggest corporation in the world" by 2032, after the four biggest economies.

China is never going back to Maoism.

You do realize that i'd gulag the SJW/liberals first. A real communist denounces those retards and larpers.

Countries would be needed until the entire world is under socialistic control. Then a single government would through education ensure that the people forget things that aren't in human nature (like greed, when there is abundance of stuff).

ok so riddle me this
If in communistic country everyone is equal, so you being a burger flipper earn as much as I do being a programmer.
Why in the world would I learn and strive to be a programmer if you as as burger flipper with 0 experience in anything will have just as good of a life as I will?

balls

Because see pic.

Because they are lazy

>Jack Ma came out as a Libertarian

Well duh anyone who's read about him for more than 10 minutes could assume that, what does that have to do with the price of rice?

Because a lot of them suffer under it

Because they still too young and stupid. When they get a jod and start paying bills, will become anarchists.

Well you see there wouldn't be any pay. If a programmer wanted burgers he would get burgers from you and you would get the programing you need done from him. You give what you can and take what you need.

>You do realize that i'd gulag the SJW/liberals first
Congrats, you just Stalin'd

Those people make up the majority of self-identified Communists in the Western World.

So it's all voluntary?

>muh human nature
lmao, do you think cannibalism is okay too? Isn't that "human nature"?

You still haven't told me how, why, and when this world socialist government is going to wither away. Why would people who have absolute power want to give it up? When has that ever happened in a communist country?

How do you know the one world govt would know what is correct for all the people? You are putting everyone's lives in the hands of a select few, just on a global scale now.

People feel obligated, it becomes the nature of humanity to take what they need and create what they need to.

Shit's not gonna happen for hundreds of years after socialism starts, but it'd be nice to push it closer... we'll have communism by 2300.

So then again, why would anyone do any of those hard jobs if you can just "take what you need"?

Because despite being the most objectivly skilled and educated generation they are being told they will be less sucessful than their parents.

A system that says hard work pays off and only the strong survives cannot also claim that boomers who didnt graduate highschool earned a better quality of life than millineals who have dedicated themselves to education from ages 4-22.

Your system is bunk m8. If people thought they could compete and win they would do so. If they dont the either try to rewrite the rules(voting) or ignore the rules(crime).

Ballet or bullet. Your choice porky.

Does this take into account cost of living? I live in Wisconsin and 20k as median is easily livable on as long as you stay out of Madison and Milwaukee.

I don't think so, eg see the DC one. Trump really need to purge them all.

>things that aren't in human nature

So the An Cap is telling the communist that his human nature shit's a bunch of shit and basically a spook

Sup Forums might be the most ideologically confused place on earth

Because of people like this

I wonder...

Why should any human fight for a "better future" that isn't going to happen until 2300 and has failed in every attempt in the past?

Utopian commies in this thread really are putting the cart before the horse. There's no need to advocate for the communism you describe, it'll simply occur once you reach post scarcity, that is, if I follow your logic.

That's the end point of the better future, we fight for a better present and socialism.

Socialism is the transitory state between capitalism and communism and is a more democratic form of economy where the employees control the companies, as opposed to a bunch of cokeheads pushing around money in Manhattan.

i just believe that they need to be put into special reeducation camps.

basicaly

let me say this one more fucking time. throught education and abundance of stuff we ensure that people wouldn't want to leave communism.
I mean if someone wanted to set up their own community, they are free to do so as long as they don't endanger anyone else.

You specifically wouldn't live in that system if communism was installed tomorrow. Real communism would be achieved in a few generations when the masses are educated. You would live in a mixed economy.

Arm the majority and disband the army. Then have soviets (democratically elected councils) supervise the planet.

"Capitalism" is not even a legitimate concept as it was invented as a straw-man for Mr Karl Marx's idea of communism, O.P.

>Yet born just in time to see what they're missing out on
You actually hit the nail on the head, pirate. This is what's key here - kids see their parents buying themselves fast cars and irresponsibly throwing away cash, while they themselves are
eating ramen noodles, driving toyota corrolas, working their asses off at a job they feel they might lose any day. Dad walked into a factory at age 16 and landed a salaried position for wearing a brown tie and interviewing while sober, and his son is sending out hundreds of resumes for 20k salary positions and not even landing an interview. Kids see their parents with heavily unionized secure jobs that they got out of highschool, while they themselves must pay out their ass for an education they won't enjoy in a huge gamble at a career they won't enjoy.
America has always been a revolutionary country full of change. I can see something happening here.

>i just believe that they need to be put into special reeducation camps.
So did Stalin

Stop being afraid of Stalin, his methods are the only feasible way to create a stable socialist state

>stalinism and maoism are democratic
wew lad

>take what they need and create what they need to
How do you determine what is fair for every person? Does the person who works 40 hours a week as a janitor deserve the same amount of resources as the person who works 20 hours a week as a rocket scientist? What happens if someone doesn't work but takes just as much as anyone else?

They don't.

they've never gotten to experience it.

only communism corporatism and socialism.

They have good reasons for it and maybe little brainwashing too.

I never said they were. Pisspoor third world shitholes led by strongmen are pisspoor third world shitholes led by strongmen under any economy

...

>I mean if someone wanted to set up their own community, they are free to do so as long as they don't endanger anyone else
Woah woah woah, so you mean if I want to build a big house and then charge people to live in it, no one's going to shoot me?

You STILL haven't explained why the worldwide, socialist, Stalinist government is going to eventually give up power and cease to exist.

------------->> Stop playing around with Marxist ideas, T.B.H. "Capitalism" is an idea was invented by him to use as a straw-man.

On that he has got a point...

This would be solved by National Socialism, though

--->

people being educated or not is not the issue here

I became a programmer so I can earn a lot of money, the way was hard, it still IS hard but I endured it all so in the end I could have better life. I, and probably 99% people given the choice to be a, say janitor or go trough what I did and have the exact same life would instantly chose the janitor job.
If there is no reward at the end why would ANYONE work hard?

>post scarcity
>implying it could be ever reached if these retards keep setting back civilization with their childish "revolutionary" tendencies

These fags should just sit back and wait, letting capitalism bring forth the conditions.

The world will be fairly automated by then, it'll probably all be done by computers and shit. You'll work 5 hours at an Amazon like facility and in return you get everything you'd ever need delivered right to where you live every day.

We're not living in a time where we don't have algorithms and complex computers. Shit's only gonna get more advanced.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't nazbols supposed to love them some Stalin and Mao?

Only way to stop those degenerate.

I like Stalin and his policies. I also believe that some of the gulag'd people deserved it, but deferentially not everyone.

We can't into finance and spend everything on the latest Apple or Microsoft product while buying it all on credit.

Of course they aren't being paid the full value of their work. The extra goes to the business to it can expand and hire more people.

...

But the hard jobs are only necessary for capitalism's sake. If a job is unenjoyable and too hard, why would a perfect system force so many people to do it? Many people enjoy programming. Many people do it for the money. Is programming necessary? Not really, not in the big picture. And the people who are programming without enjoying it would be happier if they could flip burgers, so shouldn't they be flipping burgers? They would be happier.

And he missed a lot of people

>Not everyone
How can you determine who was worth and who not.

Absolutely, empirically, privatized economies do much better for the average citizen, and your end goal is utopian post scarcity shit. Put these things together and the answer is to wait for post scarcity. Personally, I have no interest in living in a society like that, I'd probably just peace out to the forest or some shit, but you guys go right ahead, and just wait.

It won't work, we got better weapons.

Just hope you don't have a temporary ammo shortage.

Capitalism rewards innovation and improving/increasing self worth.

Communism has no rewards and everyone is treated the same and no one has expectations of you. If someone tries to improve themselves or be exceptional they get punished.

Millennials are useless and incapable.

Alot of people were victims of corruption and old rivalries. The kulaks/bankers/trockyists and other people undermining the state on the other hand deserved it tho.

Because usury is haram, fools.

This Aussi fuck gets it.

>people undermining the state on the other hand deserved it tho
Just to be clear, do you agree with this statement:
>totalitarianism is okay when we do it because we promise it's the only way to make everyone think alike and then we'll have a perfect world with neglibile crime and no hierarchy

yes, they "unlucky ran out of ammo" for a small amount of time.

>If someone tries to improve themselves or be exceptional they get punished
[citation needed]

This is the biggest pipe dream of all time.

Why do you think the same people who exploit you now will all of a sudden be interested in giving everything to you for free? Will automation somehow make scarce resources less scarce? And if everyone is receiving a basic living wage for minimal work, what will be the laws against reproduction to make sure that the population doesn't grow to unsustainable levels?

Automation won't create a utopia. Automation won't make rare resources plentiful. Just like minorities on welfare, an incentive to create even more children will exist because of increased benefits if they did so. It's such a ridiculous fantasy, the only way it could work is if you render populations inert, stagnant, and unable to grow or develop.

It doesn't make any sense.

It's not about totalitarianism, it's about killing retarded people who identify as non-binary Marxist so that we can actually have civic discourse.