Communism

Why is capatalism superior to communism?

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It's great if you want to ruin civilization and bring about human extinction?

People make voluntary actions with one another that are mutually beneficial. This is the natural state of affairs that occurs without the presence of a government. People that aren't good at it get butthurt and cry to the state like it's an arbiter of equality so they can push down others instead of building themselves up.

If that's so great then why don't companies just let their employees loose and let them act independently instead of business as usual?

Why is America better than Venezuela?

I'm not sure i understand your question. An employer can enforce whatever rules he chooses on his employers and they can either comply or quit at any time. The employee does not act independently because he lacks the resources or ability to do so successfully. Nobody forces you to work anywhere

>People make voluntary actions with one another that are mutually beneficial. This is the natural state of affairs that occurs without the presence of a government.


If cooperation is natural then it is not voluntary, it's evolutive.

It leads to prosperity for everyone.

...

They do, the employees can choose to do as they wish. They can form a commie co-op if they so please, if it is competitive and more effective then it will prosper. Hell it doesn't even have to be competitive if it is self-sufficient.

Look at the former communist countries and communist countries on this map then try and defend communism.

Its still voluntary even if you are naturally inclined to. Just like you choose to drink water, still I choice but an obvious one.

It leads to prosperity for everyone except the lazy.

Communism is unnatural and tries to fight against human nature
Communism has too much baggage like political institutions, lifestyle, world relations
Communism is violent

finally,
Communism doesn't work.

>Why is capatalism superior to communism?

because the people get to own property without the government taking it away from them to give to jews.

Capitalism at least lets you CHOOSE to be a kike slave.
>also gives the slaves a higher standard of living

youtube.com/watch?v=kzIRG525l6s

They both equal white genocide, so they are equally bad.

Capitalism allows people to freely create and innovate things that have a market demand. Whatever they can dream and work for they can create.
The result is a lot of great and useful products get adopted by society, and bad products fall through the cracks naturally never to be seen from again.

Communism relies on the government to dictate what people can create. The result is a huge lack in products that people enjoy. Communists didn't even know how to make blue jeans because the Jewish masters didn't deem it a necessity for society.
The result is a real lack of useful products for the people, bad products stay in circulation forever because those are products the Government allows, and shit cars.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

>Why is capatalism superior to communism?

It's not. Capitalism was "invented" to legitimize the disparity between the aristocracy and the ppl.

It doesn't help anyone but those who have capital.


It's also unnatural as it abstracts everything to the market, which creates a lot of tensions between individual.
On the other hand, communism let people cooperate rather than fight on the market, which is a natural human state.

> (OP)
>Capitalism allows people to freely create and innovate things that have a market demand. Whatever they can dream and work for they can create.
>The result is a lot of great and useful products get adopted by society, and bad products fall through the cracks naturally never to be seen from again.
>Communism relies on the government to dictate what people can create. The result is a huge lack in products that people enjoy. Communists didn't even know how to make blue jeans because the Jewish masters didn't deem it a necessity for society.
>The result is a real lack of useful products for the people, bad products stay in circulation forever because those are products the Government allows, and shit cars.

Bullshit, USSR had the same level of technology and goods quality as EU.

Nazis would have more merit if they didn't unironically believe in removing everyone else's culture, taking their land, and being their new lords because "we are tha mustardrace!"

The 3rd position is just more of the same according to your complaints.
Nazis and Jews, two sides of the same coin desu.

thats not even remotely true.
Even Russians laugh at some of the bullshit they had to endure.

Lada = Ferrari to you?
Lada = Mercedez Benz?
of course not, Communists couldn't make cars for shit.
And thats only one prominent example.

>choose to drink water
you need water
and you also need cooperation
without the society (the advanced form of cooperation) we won't have language and we wouldn't be having this discussion
you don't choose to learn to speak
you learn
you are not free from other people kid

Becuase it doesn't spend the bulk of its energy in a failing attempt at damming human nature and natural order by threat and force.

That is why so many people wanted USSR goods right?

yes

Wrong questing. You should be asking:

Why does communism always fail.

>USSR had the same level of technology and good quality
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHahahahahaha...ha. Good one, the only place where technological parity was achieved was in physics, and even then they were falling behind towards the end since such a large portion of their population was incapable of using computers. Lysenkoism and similar practices ran rampant throughout the hard sciences in the USSR and everything from the Lada to the electronics industry were objectively inferior to its Western and Japanese counterparts. Not to mention the constant shortages of consumer goods.
You need water and you need cooperation, you still choose to consume water and cooperate. Additionally, cooperation is much, much more flexible given that you can choose who you cooperate with and in what ways you cooperate. Naturally people will cooperate in the way most advantageous to themselves and their interests, not in a way contrary to their own interests.

The state is not society.

Commies are just so unbelievably dumb.

Because Human nature (also nature in general for top predatory mammals) disagrees with communism.
It has failed and resulted in pain and misery in every instances it's been tried.
Literally everything you enjoy today is owed to capitalism. It's not the 1800's anymore

Ask every fucking goddamn commie, even here in Russia they say that "USSR was not really communist, actual communism has never been tried yet".

i did not say "the state is society"
i just said free cooperation is an illusion, you don't choose who you cooperate with, you cooperate because you're in a society who taught you to

When the state owns the means of production, that's communism.
We all know how that works out. Great for a colony of Ants.

I went to Moscow last year and there was a huge commie parade on the red square. Also Lenin was very creepy.

They had cool songs tho.

also just to inform you the state is not the only way people can dominate other people
the state does have the monopoly of violence, though

But I do choose

You are simply wrong.

Capitalism is controlled by Jews indirectly, Communism is controlled by Jews directly.

Sure are a lot of commie cunts lately

>Implying capitalism isn't failing

>But I do choose
>You are simply wrong.

you choose to believe i am wrong based on what you believe. you have reached this belief not by force itself, but by the illusion of free will.

there is no free will, there is no god either. just a rock in space filled with people trying to make you into the things they want you to be in, because other people told them to be into that things.

it's mind numbing.

It's voluntary. Case closed.

*tipping intensifies*

I'm sorry you feel that way.
I hope that you will one day find something to be passionate about and productive.

Volunteerism that uses innate human greed for the benefit of everyone by rewarding those who best meet the needs & wants of everyone. It does so in a decentralized, parallel compute system leveraging the distributed intelligence of every person in the system.

Its summer so they are out of their adult daycare for awhile where they learn how to suck marx cock.

Thanks to the Weimar Republic and people like Magnus Hirschfeld infecting the soft sciences in America. Next time one of your guys gets in power, deal with your rat problem don't just chase them off across the Atlantic.

>want a certain product
>gulags only produce one version of product
>that said product is crappy and needs tons of improvement
>no other gulag deviates due to expedience and lack of customer feedback/service

--

>capitalism allows me to have said product
>almost if not exactly how i want it
>backed by a company who will literally put their genitals on the line as insurance to make sure you have the product you want
>if i complain, their mission statement is generally failed
>receive desired product while also making a transaction that is more based in empathy and reality rather than just expedience

is it really that hard you fucking commie pieces of shit

i think about society, i write about society, i want to make society to advance, even with all of its flaws. that is what keeps me alive. a service to humanity based on my own ego. i want to be a hero, don't you want to be one? to be one of those men who have embraced history and made the world turn?

don't you want to be a hero?

i do

that's why i live my life like art. life is a tragedy, like old greek tragedies. we are bound to a destiny that is probably terrible for ourselves, but good for art.

we will meet again.

Here are 2 reasons

> (You)
>thats not even remotely true.
>Even Russians laugh at some of the bullshit they had to endure.
>Lada = Ferrari to you?
>Lada = Mercedez Benz?
>of course not, Communists couldn't make cars for shit.
>And thats only one prominent example.

I dunno, I don't have the money to either buy a Ferrari or a Mercedes. So I'm perfectly fine with Lada.

individual liberty

capitalism gives motivation to work

Because capitalism hasn't killed 100 million of its own citizens? Seriously, capitalism falls far short of the theoretical utopia communists say that "true communism" will bring about. But considering that in practice functional communism either turns into a capitalist dictatorship or oligarchy or simply implodes, I'd say capitalism is the superior system. Of course, communists have only been trying for a century or so. Maybe after another couple of hundred million lives and another century or two, they'll figure it out.

> (You)
>That is why so many people wanted USSR goods right?

They are now! To this date, the only trucks that are able to travel some part of Siberia are 6 wheeled built during the USSR.
They keep on trucking no problem after 30 years!

Dude, Russian cars are so bad they made a game based on it.

store.steampowered.com/app/446020/Jalopy/

Well, originally that was supposed to be a "dictatorship of the working people", not dictatorship of the communist party and state security agencies. USSR was a simple totalitarian militaristic autocracy with no any actual signs of socialism.

Cool. Unfortunately, I have never been to Moscow.

>I dunno, I don't have the money to either buy a Ferrari or a Mercedes. So I'm perfectly fine with Lada.

Communism: Fuck You, Because I Don't Got Mine(tm)

Well that's the thing about communism, there has never been a successful "real communist society", hell there's never even been a successful real socialist society, and that's supposed to be the precursor to communism.

So yeah, so far as we have seen in the real world, free market capitalism has lead to the best results wherever it has been tried.

You're trolling... right?

> (You)
>>USSR had the same level of technology and good quality
>HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHahahahahaha...ha. Good one, the only place where technological parity was achieved was in physics, and even then they were falling behind towards the end since such a large portion of their population was incapable of using computers. Lysenkoism and similar practices ran rampant throughout the hard sciences in the USSR and everything from the Lada to the electronics industry were objectively inferior to its Western and Japanese counterparts. Not to mention the constant shortages of consumer goods.
>
>You need water and you need cooperation, you still choose to consume water and cooperate. Additionally, cooperation is much, much more flexible given that you can choose who you cooperate with and in what ways you cooperate. Naturally people will cooperate in the way most advantageous to themselves and their interests, not in a way contrary to their own interests.

No, they where simply less appealing to the market. But where all equally good.
IMO even better since there was no need for planned obsolescence.

Also, cold war and Russian climate were the reason for the shortage of goods. It would have been even worst with capitalism, since it needs to waste a shittonne of resources to work properly.

Because it works

If communism is great:
>Why is eastern Europe a backwards economically depressed shithole?
>Why did they build a wall to keep people in?
>Why did every communist state attempted so far end up massacring millions of civilians?
>Why do communists today mostly come from upper middle class privileged backgrounds and look like total beta fags?
>Why are ex-communist countries the most right wing?

You have no idea what you're talking about.

> (You)
>>I dunno, I don't have the money to either buy a Ferrari or a Mercedes. So I'm perfectly fine with Lada.
>Communism: Fuck You, Because I Don't Got Mine(tm)

Exactly. Nothing wrong with that.

They are both terrible in their late stages,

They are both perfect ways to run a nation, but human green is impossible to overcome, and they're both easy to manipulate

It's a Polish game about East German Trabant. You should abandon this bad habit of calling "a Russian" everyone from the land east of the Elbe.

Owning property is not evil in and of itself

Communism denies the basic human right to be able to own property, therefore is immoral. As a bonus, in many implementations of communism, you hardly have enough resources for yourself, so if your neighbor has issues and you want to help them, you just gotta hope your lord and savior government will.

>you need water
Nope. Drank coke for a week during exams.
>and you also need cooperation
I also need to choose who to cooperate. If it was after you I would have had to cooperate with useless morons that had no usefulness and I would have had to do work for both.

The rest is empty bullshit.
Go live in a comune. It might surprise you but the big evil capitalists do allow for comunes but the generous enlightened commies have to put all dissidents in gulags.

Simple interaction between individuals is not cooperation.

you are a bit wrong

USSR had deficit because companies and people were forbidden to make profit and accumulate capital, so they had no interest to work. This fact reduced productivity and quality (to balance the budget)

The only things that mattered were profit and accumulation of capital

>Exactly. Nothing wrong with that.

Actually there's a lot wrong with that. It's like you see a bunch of mansions and you live in a shack, and instead of working to build yourself a mansion, you burn everyone else's down so they have to live in shacks, too.

The end result isn't any improvement in your situation, and a global deterioration rather than progress. That's about as evil as it gets.

Communism is basically trying to encourage a civilization to commit suicide.

My mistake, I tend to blur the East Bloc countries together sometimes.

>you need water
Speaking of water, did you know that Chile privatized it's water utilities with great results?

Because greedy and rich people are superior to common folk. Communism goes against human greedy possessive competitive nature.

Communism is a perfect idea, if a society was able to start out instantly with the understanding of the concept. It just doesn't work after trying to implement it after other forms of government have been around long enough to influence it

Communists are very good at pointing out the flaws of capitalism. But unfortunately they are using emotional reasoning, rather than logical arguments. This is primarily what I've noticed separates the left from the right. Something has a left wing character when it's ruled by emotional arguments, a right wing character when it's ruled by practical or logical arguments.

The problem here is that because they aren't making any sort of rational, well-reasoned arguments, their perspective is not being factored into the political debate in any meaningful way. Ideally we'd come to a compromise system, something like scandanavian socialism. But this isn't happening because right wingers are so turned off by these attempts to tug their heartstrings

It's due to economic calculation.

If everyone or the state owns the means of production, then there can be no trade of the means of production. A trade requires two parties. Since trade creates prices and there is no trade, there can be no rational calculation.

Better allocation of resources and exploitation of market needs.

>No, they where simply less appealing to the market. But where all equally good.
>They were equally as good except people don't want them and prefer the Western counterparts
The Soviets literally told the Japs their electronics industry was 20 years behind. That was also why Gorbachev was freaking out about Reagan and Star Wars, because even if Reagan shared the secrets of building James Bondesque space lasers, the USSR didn't have the technical expertise to do it.
>IMO even better since there was no need for planned obsolescence.
The need was the exact opposite, there are Western counterparts with reliability in mind. I guess you haven't heard many Lada jokes in your lifetime.
>Also, cold war and Russian climate were the reason for the shortage of goods.
The Cold War was a global phenomenon, pissing away your budget on nukes doesn't excuse well pissing away your budget on nukes. Especially since the same thing was happening under capitalism. And the Russian Climate would play a role in certain goods, but Russia had historically been the net exporter of wheat in Europe. I also would like to point out that despite the massive reserves of natural gas and oil, the USSR had suffered from fuel shortages when it made the leap from coal to natural gas and oil. Why? Because central planners arbitrarily cut coal production in order to meet targets.
>It would have been even worst with capitalism, since it needs to waste a shittonne of resources to work properly.
Since Russia had never had capitalism proper, the closest thing could be Stolypin era Tsarist Russia. Had it continued on the path of his reforms, many speculate that the economy would be stronger today and that his reforms even in their early days effectively cut many of the shortages in Russia. Of course that is conjecture, but I could also point to countries such as Japan and South Korea which experience similar problems which the USSR had (technological disadvantage, poor climate/natural resources).

keeps burocrats n other losers away from activity more
just by letting men produce and enjoy products explosion of wealth

> (You)
>>Exactly. Nothing wrong with that.
>Actually there's a lot wrong with that. It's like you see a bunch of mansions and you live in a shack, and instead of working to build yourself a mansion, you burn everyone else's down so they have to live in shacks, too.
>The end result isn't any improvement in your situation, and a global deterioration rather than progress. That's about as evil as it gets.
>Communism is basically trying to encourage a civilization to commit suicide.


No, it's about having everyone a half mansion, rather than having a situation where I live in a shack and very very few ppl live in a mansion.

There is no reason for such a huge disparity. Nobody is this important in a society.

>implying we believe this
I just want non whites out of my country famalam.
I'm not an imperialist.

P.S. The free market will not fix Detroit:
youtube.com/watch?v=OJ0AHO-IWws

>rules and regulations makes things worse!
>but companies and their hierachies and rules are so much better than commie co-ops!
Ban companies along with the government if u truly wanna be anarchist if not fuck off.

>Lines of people waiting for bread.
>Lines of bread waiting for people.

Capitalism over produces. Thats why its superior.

>Communism is a perfect idea, if a society was able to start out instantly with the understanding of the concept. It just doesn't work after trying to implement it after other forms of government have been around long enough to influence it

Your hypothesis is unfalsifiable and meritless. It's also a tacit admission that, however much you might want it, communism is totally impossible at this point, and indeed any point in recorded history.

Give it up. Capitalism is lifting the world out of poverty and despair, building the engines of a glorious technological future, and producing the best art and entertainment the world has ever seen. It's the way forward.

The supermarket

The greatest triumph of capitalism

It isn't. Both are false Jewish ideologies.

Never claimed to be a true anarchist, companies that choose to shoot themselves in the feet will fail.

communism strips us of the basic human right of individual sovereignty, ie, to do as we please without external impediment. Which necessarily implies the ownership of the results of our actions - that being the consequences of infringing that right in others (such as punishment), and the benefits our actions may bring (such as property rights).
Without property rights that basic right is fundamentally broken.

>companies and their hierachies and rules are so much better than commie co-ops
This is actually a fact though. They are better by every measure.

>producing the best art and entertainment the world has ever seen

TIL Transformers 2 and Pootie Tang is the height of western civ

baka

Scandinavian "socialism" is so free market that Sweden is 19th in economic freedom. Keep in mind that the United States is currently 17th, and Canada, the nation that is supposedly a better version of the USA, is 7th.

1) Communism separates results from effort. Why put in the extra work when your payout is going to be the exact same? Capitalism on the other hand directly ties efforts with results. So their is motivation to achieve more.

2) Communism has more overhead. There is no way to get anywhere near the productivity needed to function without a lot of government. Everything needs supervision to work in a commie state. Capitalism can function even without government oversight.

3) Communism is not reactive. In a capitalistic system, if there is a shortage people are quick to fill it. There is profit to be made in filling societies needs as fast as possible. Communism only fixes shortages when the government gets around to it. As a result Communist states constantly have good shortages.

4) Capitalism is resilient to failure. If a crop fails in a capitalistic society, people will just buy an alternative food to that crop. Free markets tend to favour having some diversity of goods, so alternatives exist. Communism on the other hand requires uniformity of goods. As a result there often is no alternatives to that can take the shortfall of that crop. So a communist state will end up with more frequent famines. It doesn't just apply to food. You can apply this to any goods or services.

5) People resent force. When people choose to work for their own needs and wants they tend to resent working less. Whereas those who have to produce or they get shot tend to build up resentment. Resentful workers don't will go out of their way to do the worst work they can get away with out of pure spite. They tend to create political instability. The only way to keep the resentment from destroying the society is to put in an authoritarian state. Communism is brutal because it needs to be. Think cultural revolution brutal. This is also why communist states fall with a century. The people hate their state.

>Well that's the thing about communism, there has never been a successful "real communist society",

That's simply because planned economy doesn't work in reality, especially not on a scale of big country. That's fucking nonsense when there's a special state structure that has to order how many food, clothes, TVs or cars should be produced in the country.

>hell there's never even been a successful real socialist society

What about the Nordic model (i'm talking about economics only, not their current politics)? Is seems they successfully combine the traits of capitalism and socialism, being democratic countries with free market economies.

>Capitalism is lifting the world out of poverty and despair, building the engines of a glorious technological future, and producing the best art and entertainment the world has ever seen
pic related

>having a situation where I live in a shack and very very few ppl live in a mansion.

Capitalism is creating wealth, and that "raises all boats". Look at China in the Communist 1970s compared to today. Look at India in the 1970s compared to today. Russia. Even Cuba.

Everyone with any sense understands that capitalism simply works better. You're stuck on a stupid, unworkable idea.

>There is no reason for such a huge disparity. Nobody is this important in a society.

But you think some people are important enough to decide how much everyone gets? Hah.

Here is the problem with Communism. If you give everyone a "half mansion", some people will trade their half mansion. Now what? Society builds them another half mansion to prevent their poor choice? Society prevents the smart traders from improving their situation with wise trades? Either way, it is stupid and a failure that denies the benefits of freedom.

pic related

I've never claimed communism to be possible at this point, or at any point in recorded history. Just how it would be a perfect idea.

Just like Capitalism. It's a perfect idea to start a civilization with, and it worked perfectly for as long as it did now because of the lack of technology that connected the entire world. Monopolies formed as they always will, and those monopolies will control a lot of influence due to their money, and their general longstanding with their local areas.

The best we could get is a form that makes compromises between the two, but still allows for each other to coexist in essence.

>The result is a lot of great and useful products get adopted by society
No it fucking isn't, the result is endly cheaply made bullshit toys that cause societal breakdown and degeneracy and a society that pretends to value merit and talent whilst the richest are people who invent shit like fidget spinners.

Ignore uneducated opinions.

It's two things - competition and less chance of abuse of power