Give me an argument against communism that isn't MUH STALIN MUH GULAGS MUH HUMAN NATURE...

Give me an argument against communism that isn't MUH STALIN MUH GULAGS MUH HUMAN NATURE. None of that is a valid argument. Argue against the ideology itself. Find a flaw in the IDEA of Communism. You cannot. It's the best system for humanity and we are inevitably progressing towards it.

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Yeah the IDEA of communism sounds great. The execution turns out to be a completely different story.

Because I am a human male, an individual, not some kind of a hive-minded weak ant.

I get my OWN ideas, I choose my OWN beliefs, and you CAN'T CHANGE THAT.

And because of it, I can just say I don't WANT your communism.

And if I DON'T WANT IT, how will you FORCE me to do it?

fuck off and die tankie

The "execution"? Funny you say that because it's never been properly executed. State capitalism? Sure. Socialism? Sure. Juche? Sure. Maoism? Sure. Communism? Never. These are different, separate ideologies that perverted the original Communist Manifesto's message for their own nefarious ends.

Please. Your ideology has fucked my country beyond repair. Keep this shit to yourself

Sometimes this shit writes itself. The general idea of communism (as told in the communist manifesto) is maliable. Doesnt matter which asshole communism comes out of, its still shit.
t. Every country that attempted it

There was intent to implement communism, the constant failure is a reflection of the failure of the ideology.
If you want a more purist argument then the idea that labour has an inherent value and that managerial positions (le evil burgerslzee) don't is retarded.
It is also based on a model of the economy that died in modern western countries a while ago: factory employment is now rare so much of communism in that sense is fundamentally irrelevant and outdated.

Yea it's never real communism is it

Stalin and gulags are all the reasons you need.


Now fuck off

It cannot resolve the calculation problem and thus will never be able to function. All its flaws stem from this one issue.

(OP) Buch of countries already tried communism and most of them are shitholes now.

Read Book V of Republic. All you need to know.

>give arguement that doesn't include the contest global failures of applied communist policies

Which ones? This should be good.

Also
>failed
>Nazi flag
Hahahahaha eat shit faggot
Not an argument

Communism is needed in the post-automated world to ensure people don't fucking die. Factory jobs and the like are being replaced with robots soon meaning even more people will be out of work and suffering while the wealth continues to concentrate into the hands of a few, requiring redistribution of wealth to prevent chaos. Universal basic income or full blown socialism will come to the USA in our lifetimes.

Communism is unsustainable and offers to solve none of the problems that people have with capitalism.

If you really think the bourgeoisie won't exist in a communist society, you're fucking retarded.

Without referencing human nature?

I guess communicm is good system if you consider ants or termites?

>eat shit faggot

I thought the left is tolerant!

>Communism
>Needed to ensure people don't fucking die.
You don't know much about history do you?

I don't like sharing with freeloaders.
I like hierarchies and the fact that I might have a chance to climb them (it's human nature).
I don't trust my fellow man to be as rational, intelligent or to make good sense of things to let things manage themselves, I don't trust "the workers" (low IQ) to manage everything on their own well. I like the idea of bosses and subordinates.
I don't want equality for everyone.
I don't believe in equal rights for women and men.
I don't consider shitskins to be my equal because they apparently belong to the worker class just like me.

How about you sell communism to me?
Convince me that Communism is good for me.

Bc it only works in a vacuum and completely disregards human nature

>MUH STALIN MUH GULAGS MUH HUMAN NATURE. None of that is a valid argument...
Funny or sad ?

>The "execution"? Funny you say that because >it's never been properly executed.
>State capitalism? Sure. Socialism? Sure. >Juche? Sure. Maoism? Sure.
>Communism? Never. These are different, >separate ideologies that perverted the original >Communist Manifesto's message for their own nefarious ends.


No,your just retarded, and cant see that your own argument is saying that communism isnt possible.

...

It can't compete against capitalism and it necessarily has to.

Would you put the drones in charge of a hive?

Fucking this

I'll take the bait
>no prices
It's impossible to allocate resources to productive ends without the signals like prices that show what your doing is profitable and thus valuable
>central planning
when wealth is reallocated to people equally and not based on productivity or value as dictated by price, it's impossible to run a market economy, so by necessity the economy is managed by central planners within the government. These planners are not chosen based on self driven skill or merit but rather for political purposes. And without the profit motive of doing things that are valuable to the economy to ensure ones own success, the planner has no reason to do what is productive and instead what is politically profitable ie. heavy military spending and gulags.
>market failure
When a business plan fails in a capitalist economy, the losses are taken by the business involved, this is an incentive for loss aversion and promotes survival of the fittest. When a plan fails in a centrally planned economy, you might not even know the plan is unsustainable until it drags the entire country down because all costs are public.

Answer this.
I don't feel the need to be dependent on the government.

>Find a flaw in the IDEA of Communism

People are not interchangeable, and not everyone's idea of happiness is the same. Communism assumes a UNIFORM system of values and preferences where none exists. It forces everyone to the same lowest-common-denominator standard.

It barely works even with small homogeneous populations because it drives nearly half the population up a wall.

exactly this
gommunism removes all self determination and is by definition for cucks

Communism is counter to human nature. Giving absolute power to the government to control the means of production and everything else leads to power in a small group of hands which leads to corruption and plutocracies.

>MUH HUMAN NATURE
It has everything to do with nature, from the nature of totalitarianism, the process by which real communism is achieved, and economics. If you think communism and the process by which we achieve it is possible just because, human nature being unimportant, then you're a fucking idiot. Stop trying to dodge legitimate arguments that apply to the real world because it contradicts what writers said in favor of this utopian ideal

Good post

>Give me an argument against communism
Doesn't work.

>It has everything to do with nature
human nature*

>Give me an argument against Communism

>Don't use legit arguments against Communism.

No those actually all are valid arguments you fucking retard.

Communism is anti-freedom and therefore cancer. It's totalitarian, same as fascism.
I reject any third party coercing me into doing something that is not of my own volition.
Kill yourself commie scum.

>leave house to acquire food
>guy breaks in and occupies it
>private property doesn't exist, so he's your new roommate now

>Give me an argument against communism that isn't MUH STALIN MUH GULAGS MUH HUMAN NATURE.
I find it funny how Stormfags try to use this argument when they themselves think Hitler's genocide of Jews and Eastern Europeans was justified

NOBODY WILL WORK THEIR ASS OFF FOR THE SAME FUCKING REWARD AS THE SLOB WHO DOES NOT WORK AT ALL

>create vast all powerful all controlling state
>administers everything from military to how many grams in your tooth paste
>the people are complete automatons
>eventually when the state has become efficient as only true centrally planned economies can become the state will dissolve

lmfao. This is the best part of the communism idea i think. These commies think once everything has been established to run smoothly this great all powerful state that theyve created will simply wither away and disappear. Thats right, the comrades and the party members will simply give up their hotels and limos and just slowly return to working the fields with the common man. All that power accumulated will just be relinquished without a second thought.

If you thought commies were stupid about human nature regarding the people who they wish to control you should see what they think of their own nature. They well and truly believe they would walk away from Stalin type power and just leave it be as would anyone else. That such an accumulation of power would never be abused. I wonder what its like to think so low of others that you must control how much toilet paper the fuckwits use but think so highly of yourself that you will with ease give up the power of life and death to go grow potatoes.

Why do people hate being killed by their enemies yet love killing their own enemies? This is very confusing.

>Give me an argument against communism

It is led by the communists. How can workers revolution by headed by people who doesn't know shit about work.

>to each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

That is great since my skill is zero in communist regime and my need is eight room mansion, two cars, pasture the size of soccer field. What now communist?

>Value of labor is decide democratically amongst workers

Another great news, since me and my work party had a vote, and we voted that a labor value of a communist is zero. Sucks to be you, eh?

If under glorious communism I'll go to a guy and offer him my labor and he accepts, who is going to stop me in your classless society?
Who is going to force me to work in your classless society? Perhaps some class of enforcers?

What, like finding a flaw in the idea of unicorns? They don't exist, retard.

There's never been a successful communist society.

>we pretend to work, they pretend to pay.

An attitude I heard from a former russian. Wise words.

>My "country"

Hohol pls

B-b-but what about Catalonia? S-so w-what that there were forced conscription in that classless society, y-you bigot!

>to each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

What happens to communism when someones need becomes a bigger liability than someones ability is an asset is what i want to know.

>comrade, is it true the americans have more cars than us
>yes it is comrade, but know that we here have more parking space than the americans

Communism can't run an economy with central planning: billions of types, prices, quotas and actors in transactions cannot simply be decided by a single figure or authority. It's phisically impossible and even if it was it would be totally inefficient due to the lack of interest.
Now wisen up or shut up, just by what you are typying you're already a waste of time and space.

Dude, you have no fucking idea just how true that statement is, seriously.
The reason why there were always shortages of everything was that the enlightened communist leader with proper academic education has come up with a plan and a target quota, and we just did sweet fuck all and the dude who was supposed to catalogue those thing just wrote that we fulfilled the plan above the quota. Why the fuck should he give a shit. there was notning in it for him. And so it went in the same way all the way up, where there was some communist party cocksucker, who didn't have any clues about the workings of the business, so he just swallowed all that a guy who didn't give a shit told him.

"Communism is needed in the post-automated world to ensure people don't fucking die."

Oh, would they be applying the lessons learned from the Holomodor?

Venezuela

>What happens to communism when someones need becomes a bigger liability than someones ability is an asset is what i want to know.

The answer is a barrel of a gun held by a party hack in this classless system.

Do't expect answer from him. Communism has a foundation on a malleable intent (seize, not create, the means of production) and then it expects the people to by flawless paragons of virtue who will never take more than they need. Don't ask me how is that supposed to work.

>barrel of a gun

It always comes back to this. For once id just like a commie to admit it. Just come out and say yeah my plan is going to involve mass murder and enslavement to make it work. The way they dance around the topic is what shits me. You know it. I know it. They know it. Only one person is willing to pretend like it wont come to that though.

Ill respect the commie who advocates for gulags before i respect the commie that says it can work without force. Ones ideas will be rejected immediately, the other leads to the mass death and starvation we saw last century.

COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK UNLESS YOU HAVE A POST-SCARCITY ECONOMY AND UNLIMITED LAND AND ALL PROPERTY LOOKS LITERALLY THE SAME AND ALL FOOD TASTES THE SAME AND EVERYTHING IS THE FUCKING SAME

YOU FUCKING IDIOT

Communism is for inferior men. And Communism is an inferior ideology. It already didn't survive the natural selection of human history. So you fail commie scum you fail and now EXTINCT.

Also. NO INTERNET in communism. Since no innovation can ever come from "Seizing" nothing.

>go on Sup Forums or Sup Forums
>venezuelan posters

they might be starving to death and dying from simple infections but no internet isnt something i can level against them

communism is a complete failure and you're a fucking idiot.

I like private property, money, and bosses. So ya.

it's because of people like you

>claim communism works
>if it fails it wasn't real communism

fuck off literally.

Communism can't work because it defies basic human nature

I'm not a fuckin statist

Nigger detected. Sage

ANCAP and communism are equally retarded.

>the original Communist Manifesto's message for their own nefarious ends.
I've read the Communist Manifesto and can tell you haven't because Communism is already here.

The book can be summarized quickly with three main ideals as laid out by Marx and Engels:

1. Establish a minimum wage.
2. Do away with personal property. The state divvies it out.
3. Centralize capital. The state divvies it out.

Whether or not this is what people are reading on some left-leaning websites out there or from their radical buddy, I don't know. But this is what's in the book.

1. So for number one, there's really not much discussion to have. We can argue about raising it or not, but this is already a done deal. There is a federal minimum wage in place.

2. So, somewhere in the neighborhood of fifty percent of Americans have ownership in their home, but by closer examination, less than one-third of people who have ownership in their home (remember that homeowners are only about half of people living in homes) actually own their home free and clear. (linked) So, the vast majority are owned by the bank. And even that isn't the whole truth, because who gets the house if the property taxes aren't paid? Of course, the state.

3. The United States IRS collected $2.9 trillion in 2013. This probably makes the United States government the largest organization in the history of Earth x1000. It doesn't get much more centralized than that.

So if you're following along with me, you probably already know what I'm getting at. We have essentially satisfied all three of the requirements of Karl Marx's utopia. So why are kids marching in the streets? Have they not read the book? We're essentially already there.
doctorhousingbubble.com/americans-that-own-home-with-no-mortgage-free-and-clear/
The USSR was Communism as well, it collapsed cause of Reagan's strategy of increased military spending in the hopes the USSR would spend more in response, so much that it collapsed.

If I take a log I find in the woods and carve it into the most beautiful wooden statue you've ever seen by utilising my time and talent, I have created something of unique value and no just law of God's or men can say that my creation now belongs to the community. If it is taken from me and I can no longer gift it to whomever I choose or barter it for a piece of fucking cheese, I'll just not bother creating anything of value after that.

Muh economic determinism

The biggest problem with communism is that, whichever niche variation you might support or fight for, in the end stalinism will prevail because of strength in numbers etc. So yeah, the gulag argument is pretty valid, since any gommie xD revolution would inadvertently lead to gulags.

Page 84:
>"The average price of wage labour is the minimum wage, i.e. that quantum of the means of subsistence which is absolutely requisite to keep the laborer in bare existence as a laborer... "
>"All we want to do is do away with the miserable character of this appropriation."
Page 92:
"...this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois prodiuction."
Page 93:
>"Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state."
>"Centralisation of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state."

>none of this is a valid argument because I say so
Fuck off fgt, kys

During the cold war russia wanted to develop the most efficient diesel engine the problem was their quota was measured in tonnage so to get around it workers just welded lead bars to a half assed diesel engine to avoid the gulag

This thread has taught me much of the state of this fucking board.
It's all emotional. I use to be a capitalist... well.. I might now take a sample of the "REAL red Pill"

>Give me an argument that isn't the actual repeated failed states which caused catastrophic socio-political-economic scenarios resulting in hundreds of millions of workers dying in just the span of five to ten years multiple times

Also, what are you sliding, faggot? sage

Do these arguments not fit your vision of communism?

Humans just aren't equal. Thus, an ideology based around equality is doomed to fail.

There have always been wolves and sheep. There always need to be wolves and sheep. When there is only wolves and no sheep, wolves will start eating eachother and all starve eventually. When there is only sheep and no wolves, sheep will grow weak and gluttonous. When they breed so much the environment won't be able to sustain them, they will all perish.

Communism cannot be applied

Didn't think we had to say much after its failed and imploded on itself everywhere its implemented. Even softer versions of communism (socalism) end up bank rupting its own country and creating disgusting totalitarian regimes. Overall it just doesn't work. It sounds cool on paper. Like yea everyone lives a good life awesome man I dont think anyone here doesn't want someone to live a normal stab life. But it just doesn't work out that way.

Doesn't fit my vision of "intellectual right wingers"

Don't worry, I've been feeling this way for a little while now.

t. Fat American

Yeah nah

You didn't give any starting point. Cuba and China aren't so bad and they're communist in name. However pushing to implement international communism as foreseen by Marx doesn't work, proclaiming that as your objective is a declaration of war on the rest of the world.

Garbage. The idea of communism is flawed. Inherently only benefits less than a 1%

>Find a flaw in the IDEA of Communism
Fine. You be the first person to give me all your shit. I need it more.

We'll work out the details later, comrade.

it doesn't work

>Give me an argument against gommunism that doesn't prove gommunism is bad

Getting reeeaaal retarded in here.

what exactly did you expect? A proper rebuttal against communism? Open a history book and its already done. No one here was ever going to come out with some new reason as to why it just doesnt work. Its been done plus OP cried about not including XYZ reasons despite them being the main reasons it fails

I'm not OP, but we currently live in a GLOBAL state of International Credit. The world is currently 70 trillion dollars in debt, money no longer exists.

Keynes was the starting point, he implemented slow-Socialism.

Do I believe Communism can be implemented through a forced revolution? Not painlessly.

But I believe that the closer we get to having mixed parties favoring social services, and focusing on larger issues such as diseases, universal expansion, technological advances, we will see more and more of an organized system. Which will eventually lead to some form of Global Socialism.

Ad Hominem.

Don't need to, you are subhuman and unworthy of discussion.

I never understood this "sounds good in theory" meme. That all people are equal and removal of incentive to work and central planning for everything is insanity. This meme needs to die

This.
"Paris gommune"
"Revolutionary kekalonia"
"Free hohol territory"
All utterly BTFO by capitalists

The idea of equality utterly disgusts me. I want to be something more than someone else. I want hierarchy and capitalism, where you can effectively climb the ladder of succes. Also, I want to choose the party that will rule my shithole in the next 4 years. It my be shit, but I know I had my choice.

That it ignores basic human nature, and as such will fail when applied to actual human beings is a perfectly valid argument.

You're exactly what Yuri Bezmenov refereed to as
"A Useful idiot"

"YOU" brother komrad will not rise to power or enjoy any amazing fruits and goodies from this "world communist order" hahahah

youtube.com/watch?v=K4kHiUAjTvQ&t=69s

>Don't believe the Ex-High ranking KGB member?

oh well

Youre right and its terrible. We've had the forced implementation of communism and it was rejected, now theyre trying the backdoor and slowly going through the institutions and its working amazingly. People are more and more for government dependence than ever before. Government debt is out of control and will never be paid off. Communism is coming once more but this time it has slowly withered down the person into walking into the gulag himself rather than at gun point.

Communism lost the battle but it is winning the war

I think Marx had a somewhat intuition about the inevitable results of industrialization but all the attempts to push for those results are misguided.

International cooperation is important and everyone wants it in theory but it only really works when national sovereignty is respected. The EU for example is too global and abstract, it does not represent my interests unlike my elected national government.