Not a socialist

>not a socialist
What a fuck is wrong with you?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5fL1okyng
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Reich_Party
youtube.com/watch?v=MShXEiA-1RI
youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c
youtube.com/watch?v=8vMypCinkRk
youtu.be/YVmIaBW-HjI
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Führerprinzip
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

fucking stalin with his hidden hand illuminati shit.

Communism is a disease.
Don't lump nazis in with them.

>Hitler
>Socialist

Pick one

Lol dumbass
National socialism

fuck you shill
there is no difference between communism and national socialism made by adolph

...

Socialism isn't National Socialism

Hitler had all the socialists of the movement killed in the night of long knives and allowed for private property.

>Hurr Durr muh name

No it's a fascist ideology not a socialist one

>Polish intellectuals

Hmmm...

Because i have my small business and would like to focus my energy on making it grow.
I would really dislike having it confiscated by the state, go to trial on petite bourgeois charges, and live on ration food either in jail or "free".

Yes it is. It isn't Marxist/Marxist-derived socialism but that doesn't mean it isn't socialism.

Socialism as an idea and a word existed decades before Marx and Engels, and as such they don't have the monopoly on defining it.

We're all brought up to believe that "Socialism" is "when the means of production is collectively owned", but that's only the marxist interpretation of the socialist idea.

Marxism and socialism aren't mutually inclusive. National Socialism is definitely socialist even if it stands in stark opposition to Marxism.

Don't see how they're contradictory... maybe I need an extra chromosome to see it.

of course it is
there is no economical difference between them
hitler killed them because the were competition for him on political field
>Polish intellectuals
we experienced both ideologies you moron there is no difference between them
besides facism is very close to national socialism

>During this period, Mussolini identified his economic policies with “state capitalism” and “state socialism,” which later was described as “economic dirigisme,” an economic system where the state has the power to direct economic production and allocation of resources

>By 1939, Fascist Italy attained the highest rate of state–ownership of an economy in the world other than the Soviet Union

Literally Stalinists

NatSoc is not real socialism guys! Trust us, why would we lie to you? never forget the 58 krautsand Germans murdered by Poles in Danzig!

>What a fuck is wrong with you?
So your "argument" is that both had red flags, armies, women, and a male leader, and both are therefore the same?

How fucking stupid are you?

>Lol dumbass
>National socialism
You sound like one of those retards who doesn't understand that words can change meaning over time.

>there is no difference between communism and national socialism made by adolph

That must be why they got along so well. Oh wait they didn't.

Cut your tiny dick off, faggot.

Socialism is awful cuz we import shitskins and pay them to breed. If it was just a monolithic society I would have no problem living in a socialist state.

are you literally retarded? Do you seriously believe that no two countries with the same economic system have never been at war with each other?

Just because a state uses Markets as the primary form of resource and capital allocation doesn't mean that it's Capitalism.

Capitalism is when the primary focus of individuals in life is the pursuit of personal profits. It is inherently degenerate in nature. But that doesn't mean that every system that uses markets is definitively capitalist. People call the modern Chinese system as "capitalist" but it isn't. It's a variation of market-based socialism. The individual is responsible for the allocation of resources and services to the public, but the state holds the monopoly on political power and thus economic power and operates as a blend between privately-owned and state-owned enterprises. The top 4 largest companies in China have the GDP greater than that of Australia, and they're all state owned and operated.

Fascism/National Socialism uses markets to allocate resources and services, but at the same time opposes the inherently selfish and degenerate nature of Capitalism, holding a social-worldview of individuals benefiting the community at the same time as benefiting themselves, as opposed to Capitalism which is basically a formula of "If everyone strives only to benefit themselves, then everyone is looked after, and the system balances itself", which is a broken concept from the beginning.

both destroyed private property "nationalized" it invested in military and conquered and enslaved neighbor nations
gee sure there is no difference
>words can change meaning over time.
they do not
besides if you change the meaning of the word that is an essence of cultural marxism
>That must be why they got along so well. Oh wait they didn't.
of course not they were competitors for clay and more slaves of they retarded systems
both of these systems are literally based on stealing from others they don't produce anything
that's why they must expand infinetly to support themselves

Socialism good, Internationalism/Cosmopolitanism bad

The end

The official definition of "socialism" is pic related.
Therefore: National Socialism is NOT socialism.
>no collective means of ownership
>market capitalism was still very active in Germany throughout the Nazi period

I understand what y'all are trying to say here, but technically it just isn't.

youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5fL1okyng

There's Hitlerism and Strasserism silly both are National Socialist

a simple google search might prevent you from looking like an idiot m8

Here, i'll get you started:
>where was pic related invented and by whom?
>hint #1: it was a private company
>hint #2: the country rhymes with "Hermony"

>Naziboo LARPers know so little about their supposed ideology
Not surprised tee bee aych. You're only attracted to the edgy authoritarian image. Didn't have a strong father figure in your lives, anons?

I think they're just trying to make the point that NS isn't the
>socialism
most people think of when they hear that word.

What we've been brought up to recognize as socialism is the Marxist interpretation as you've already pointed out, and that's not the same as Hitler's interpretation, so it is worth pointing out that Hitler isn't the sort of socialist most people think of when they hear the word socialism.

Strasser was a heretic and a moron, unless that flag is ironic you should kys immediately.

>literally North Korea (white edition)™

>sickle
>black sun
>red

Really ought to make you think, broski.

Strasser was right about everything unlike Hitler who unironically deluded himself that he could ally with zionist controlled Anglos and Poles.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Reich_Party

Hitler essential did what pic related describes
he NATIONALIZED everything the "Nation" (read government) owned everything and began a redistribution of goods
>no collective means of ownership
>market capitalism was still very active in Germany throughout the Nazi period
yeah and that's why one of institute had troubles when ordering 1 kilogram of spirit for research purposes (it took them ~6 months)
state (read bureaucrats; read party members) literally owned everything
technically it IS a socialism
compare constitution of nazi germany to constitution of ZSRR and you will not look like an idiot anymore

>owned or regulated by the community as a whole

Ownership by the community does not necessarily imply state ownership in any way. Community regulation of the "means of production" is also very vague. That's why it has so many interpretations and variations.

Also, no, Market "capitalism" was not largely present in National Socialist Germany. Like I explained here: Markets aren't exclusive to capitalism.

This happened when the 1929 crisis kicked in and the whole banking complex plus 50% of the industry capital was bought by the state.

>Ownership by the community does not necessarily imply state ownership in any way.
oh really ?
then who was the one deciding what to do with gooods ?
old granny from small village ?
mr kraut working at factory ?
or bureaucrat that was comfortably sitting in his office and was chosen by ruling party ?
there is always one person that decides what to do
collective do not know things like this because it's too stupid
so in the end it's up to state (read bureaucrats) to distribute those goods

Comparing stalin and hitler is like comparing a fabric to a screwdriver

stalin build a superpower hitler got the stuff giftet from the filthy rich jews but since ur to fucking dense to get that and still think in ideological terms well bad for you running against a wall everytime u try to think

National Socialism? idk, i have all chromosomes, i was never molested as a kid, i can function in society as a normal human being, oh and my balls arent shriveled up as i jack off to a man with a tiny mustache. Wait, i almost forgot, im not a Nazi-fag.

now communism i give 0 fucks about but i still think its fucking retarded.

Retard

the eternal anglo
stalin was based

The foundation of National socialism is an actual group of people. "the race"
>class cohesion,
>public & private ownership of MoP,
>focused on the health of the group as a whole

The foundation of Marxist socialism is a concept. "equality"
>class struggle,
>public ownership of MoP
>focused on the equalization of each individual


National socialism is inherently selfless. Each individual is expected to place the welfare of the group above their own personal ambitions.
>the poor are taken care of, but they must work.
>goal of the welfare is to: shrink poverty
>Rockwell clip on "national socialism" related:
youtube.com/watch?v=MShXEiA-1RI

Marxist socialism, conversely, is inherently selfish. Each individual is concerned only that he receives the share of wealth that he is entitled to.
>the poor are taken care of, regardless of the effect the wealth transfer has on total output
>goal of the welfare is to: shrink inequality
>Thatcher clip on "socialism" related:
youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c

You may be mistaking me for a egalitarian/leftist of some sort.

>then who was the one deciding what to do with gooods ?

Onwership by the community =/= collective operation of.

The community oversees the individual to ensure they do not act inappropriately or contrary to the common interest. In return for the efficient distribution of goods and services to the community and providing small jobs to the youth/those needing it, the individual/business is allowed to carve out a living from the fruits of their own labours.

You may think this is "capitalist" in nature, but it isn't. It's a market-based mechanism, like capitalism, sure, but it doesn't have the (by my point of view) drawbacks of: degenerate consumerism and profligacy, destruction of any social values it can get away with in order to generate as much revenue as possible, cause debt slaves and be forced to import sandniggers in order to artificially prop up it's own economic growth.

It's about the partnership between the individual and the community so they both benefit, rather than the individual taking as much advantage of the community as possible in order to generate profits.

International Socialism = USSR
National Socialism = Germany

Just because you reject the idea cos you like your Adolf means nothing since Adolf had much in common with Joseph. Especially economically. No matter how much you pray to your beliefs. Reality is simple. Saying that you would retain your economic freedoms and rights and NatSoc is being a believer in USSR right after revolution that you will not be sent to gulags for owning a small shop.

Socialism in One Country was not internationalist

I fucking hate stormniggers, fuck outta here

Tell me how USSR was one country? Tell me they did not spread it to other nations worldwide.

It was internationalist in nature. Perhaps not Globalist in nature, but definitely internationalist. The Soviet Union was made up of dozens of national (ethnic/cultural) entities and came within a hair breadth of joining with the PRC in one socialist state.

trotzky was the permanent revolution stalin just for the ussr

over typed and over intellectually sounding babbling that does not give clear answer on simple questions
everything that you typed is happening in countries that are using lefty side of economy

facism, socialism national socialism and communism - countries that adapted rules of those systems are collapsing, rich are getting richer and poor are poorest by day there is more inequalitymore debt and more problems

>You may think this is "capitalist" in nature
of course it is
every country that adapted even small amount of free market into a branch of economy had benefits

>degenerate consumerism and profligacy, destruction of any social values it can get away with in order to generate as much revenue as possible, cause debt slaves and be forced to import sandniggers in order to artificially prop up it's own economic growth.
yes they are all caused by socialism or more precisely Keynesian economics that are now present in USA and west
USSR was a one country ? you should educate yourself

So was Nazi Germany.They wanted to conquer whole world,just like Soviets wanted to spread communism onto the whole world.

>he nationalized everything
No he didn't. He nationalized SOME things.

>muh one institute
Ok, please explain the conditions of: Ford, Fanta (Coca Cola), GE, and the numerous other companies operating in Nazi Germany.

The major issue was widespread price controls, but these were in response to the massive trade boycotts (Jew-led) & the general protectionism of the time (due to the Great Depression)

Other governments used things like subsidies to indirectly control prices, Germany did NOT have this option because they nationalized the (((central bank))) which effectively prevented them from taking out (((loans))) for this purpose.

mate, there were still completely private (for profit) businesses run in Nazi Germany. Not all of them of course, but the fact that ANY of them still existed means that Nat. Soc. absolutely does NOT qualify as "socialism".

u dont understand much do you ?

Yeah sorry,I forgot Hitler was peacefull and not a megalomaniac.He had no plans of world conquest after securing Russia.My bad.

At first, but that obviously changed immediately after WW2.

Stalin put Socialist governments in ALL of Eastern Europe, and was instrumental in funding gommunism in China and by extension the DPRK.

One country my ass....

Uhmmmm acktually, Hitler wanted to conquer the whole galaxy!

I gave you an in depth answer to the question. Don't want an answer? Don't ask the question, Pretty straight forward.

>They wanted to conquer whole world

lol, if you really believe this, then nothing I say right now will break your conditioning. Spend another sixth months on Sup Forums then ask whatever it is you're asking.

>but the fact that ANY of them still existed means that Nat. Soc. absolutely does NOT qualify as "socialism".

Socialism and Marxism are not mutually inclusive. Whatever you've been raised to believe is "socialism" does not necessarily mean that what the word is. There's not any more ways for me to say what I've said.

Socialism does NOT mean that someone cannot act on individual interest

Socialism does NOT mean that someone cannot profit from their labours

Socialism does NOT mean that the community destroys the individual

yeah u just proved that ur an idiot...

germany doesent had the capabilites to conquer the world and he knew that and all his generals and staff ...

and calling him a megalomaniac is just proving that u dont know shit about the whole thing

>The major issue was widespread price controls, but these were in response to the massive trade boycotts (Jew-led) & the general protectionism of the time (due to the Great Depression)
this is exacly what commies did
price controlling is not only retarded from the economical view but it's also a marxist idea
besides if goverment controlls prices it does not need to control shops/companies directly

>Nationalized the (((central bank))) which effectively prevented them from taking out (((loans))) for this purpose.
xD
you have no idea about laws of economy right ?
they nationalized bank to PRINT MONEY
and when they printed money they were growing they own debt trough INFLATION

kys

you didn't gave an answer
all you did was to present marxist point of view on economy
and all of that you typed was happening in USSR and germany

I'm on my last year,studying history.I've read great many books on the subject,including Inside the Third Reich,Mein Kampf,Table talks,etc...
I can tell you're very undereducated.
Nice argument.

>I forgot Hitler was peacefull and not a megalomaniac

All actions in the war, from a German perspective, fell under one of three catagories:

The unification of Germans and German-speaking lands into one nation (This is reasonable).

The defense of Germany from foreign military powers like France, whom Hitler repeatedly offered peace deals to, even though he was winning at the time (information from the British government showed that Hitler send no fewer than two dozen offers for peace after the Battle of France when Germany was at it's peak and didn't have to have peace with Britain).

And the defense of sovereign people's who had not attempted to harm Germany or it;s reich (The Soviet Union had invaded and wiped out the ind-pendant nations of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, attempted to take over Finland, but was fought off, took Moldova from Romania, etc.). All of these wars were wars not of defense or reasonable political action, but of aggressive military expansion. The Soviet Union was a menace and had to be stopped and Germany's war against it was justified in all measurable ways.

I type all of that shit out and as soon as I'm done, you blatantly out yourself as a shitposter. Good timing. I won;t be responding to you anymore.

Poor kike, you should put yourself in the oven.

Nice Strasser quote there buddy

>its another 'Nazis were socialist' thread again

Oh yeah, Strasser just wanted to ally with the USSR. Way better. What could possibly go wrong?

>claiming to be national socialists
>are actually strongly for authoritarian capitalism
kill yourselves you dumb americans

both communism and capitalism are jewish ideologies

>

>hitler gassed the jews
>the holocaus is a hoax
pick one
some of pol users glorify hitler for killing kikes but on the other side they claim that holocaus is just a made up term so the jews can have benefits from muh gorylions
it's time to decide ?

You realize that NatSoc economics are just post-keynesian capitalism right

The Holocaust is a hoax but it should have happened

That was too easy

Oh so when the state helps private owned companies with state funds for further private benefits in exchange of future help by such big corporations, the capitalist system suddenly turns socialist

Well, I guess there has never been a true capitalist society, right guys?

>What could possibly go wrong?

Nothing because they would never run out of resources and London would be a fat crater.

>I type all of that shit out
Funny thing is,everything you wrote is shit.It has no basis in reality,it's funny when you think about it.
You made Hitler a victim.You made him seem as if though he wanted peace,BECAUSE HE SAID SO.
Guess what,last girl I fucked-I told her I loved her.I actually just wanted to fuck her from time to time.
The sooner you start looking at actions and not words,the better for you my man
>Good timing. I won;t be responding to you anymore.
Too bad,leave before you dig yourself a deeper hole.

>all you did was to present marxist point of view on economy

Not sure if you're incapable of reading, but Ill say this one last time:

I am anti-marxist. The Economic systems in place in National Socialist Germany, The Soviet Union and the United states were all noticably different from one another.

Reconciling the interests of the Individual and the interests of the community is not Marxism. Marxism is state-enforced egalitarianism, National Socialist Germany is hierarchical and natural selection-ist in nature. Capitalism is hierarchical and natural selection-ist in nature, but has no moral compass and degrades everything it touches, National Socialism has a moral code of ethics. the differences are night and day.

(((Nothing))) indeed!

minarchism and physical removal of all leftists is the only way

...

Communism & socialism are clearly failing, but the most recent "fascist" country was Pinochet's Chile and it certainly didn't collapse.
>pic related

I agree that private enterprise is important, but pure capitalism is not the answer. Lassiez-faire capitalism will ALWAYS lead to Keynesian economics IF the people are allowed to vote for it, and if nationalism is not the norm.

Fascism is the BEST option for longevity of national health. By keeping a nation homogenous, you can keep the demand for Keynesian gibs-me-dats at a minimum.
>people feel bad taking from their own group
>social ostracization against welfare-dependency only works within homogenous groups

Just look at America, as soon as we let nonwhites and women vote....BAM! A welfare state is put into place. This became a positive feedback loop and now we've got fucking Berniebros demanding free college so they can spend more time learning about Marxism.

I'm for as much free market as possible, but pure libertarianism is INCAPABLE of defending against the left. Fascism offers a compromise.

youtube.com/watch?v=8vMypCinkRk

>the extensely proven plannified segregation and posterior elimination of opposing/different-to-what-the state-wanted social groups by exploiting to exhaustion and liquidation of non-profitable prisoners never happened just because the greedy jew leaders inflated their numbers for political use and propaganda

Don't trust Stalin

>the extensely proven plannified segregation
This happened
>and posterior elimination of opposing/different-to-what-the state-wanted social groups by exploiting to exhaustion and liquidation of non-profitable prisoners
This didn't. Neither does it have any documented evidence as you so claim. You aren't by any chance that spanish communist are you?

>not a socialist
>What a fuck is wrong with you?
Everything not national Bolshevist is cucked af

Combine the authoritarianism of Stalin and add the racism of Hitler.

Cucks think Hitler and Stalin are evil and did bad things, but that's only because liberals argue killing people is bad to cuck white people out of existence.

>Play by the rules i set for you goy!
Haha this stupid kike is so triggered.

>This didn't. Neither does it have any documented evidence as you so claim
There's documented evidence of exploitation till exhaustion, of abuse of prisoners and stripping of basic rights by lending prisoner workforce to villages near the camps.

I've personally spoken to non-jewish survivors of the camps, testimonies are countless

Again, some fabrication for propaganda use don't exclude the validity of countless evidence

Except that none of that is capable of killing 6 million jews. Furthermore that also does not count as the "Holocaust", which refers to the mass extermination of the jews. Illtreatment and forced labor are not planned mass extermination, last time I checked.

>I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I SPOKE TO (((HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS)))
>MUH TESTIMONIES
Testimonies you say? Have this
youtu.be/YVmIaBW-HjI

Also not denying being the spanish communist. Top fucking kek

>what i'm raised to believe
Nigger.....it's in the fucking dictionary, it's official. Game over.

I UNDERSTAND that it used to mean something different/ more ambiguous, I truly do. The CURRENT DEFINITION is what matters, and "community ownership of the MoP" was NOT a universal feature of Nazi Germany.

It's also a fucking stupid concept to implement. Businesses should be prevented from taking advantage of people, but "community ownership" of the means of production is leftist stupidity.

Some people are willing to incur risk (entrepreneur), some people would rather avoid that and have a guaranteed wage (employee).

Community ownership forces EVERYONE to accept risk, because they own the factory. If nobody buys anything they ALL lose their own assets.

so all those Poles who were killed in DEATH camps were part of a hoax ?
keynesian economics hare socialist economy under new name
>I am anti-marxist. The Economic systems in place in National Socialist Germany, The Soviet Union and the United states were all noticably different from one another.
you can't be anti marxist because national socialism has no economical differences with communism they are all the same, the only diffearnce is that hitler used "Nation" as an excuse and marx used "People" as excuse
but the results were the same
are you mad ?
Pinochet's country was not facist
facism was created by mussolini as the third way of social revolution
marx used "people" as excuse hitler used "nation" and mussolini used "country" as excision for slavery and stealing
"Wszystko w państwie nic poza państwem nic przeciwko państwu" Lassiez-faire capitalism will ALWAYS lead to Keynesian economics IF the people are allowed to vote for it, and if nationalism is not the norm.

if nationalism is a norm people WILL vote for social privileges for them it's that simple
>Just look at America, as soon as we let nonwhites and women vote....BAM! A welfare state is put into place. This became a positive feedback loop and now we've got fucking Berniebros demanding free college so they can spend more time learning about Marxism.
that's the result of democracy and giving voting privilages for non taxpayers so the elites can stay in power
every democracy failed if amurica won't implement monarchy or other form of one man ruled goverment it will burn

>so all those Poles who were killed in DEATH camps were part of a hoax ?
They're approximately as real as the claim that the Danzig Germans were being killed in retaliation to the invasion.

>Implying workcamps are bad
>Implying purging dangerous elements of society is bad
Why deny something that if happened happened legally, organized and for the greater good of the nation.

>Cucks really think mass murder is bad
If mass murder was really that bad, why was every leader named "the great" a mass murderer?

>Why deny something that if happened happened legally, organized and for the greater good of the nation.
Work camps are good. Dangerous elements should be dealt with in multiple ways such as deportation (if said dangerous element is an ethnicity or religion) or imprisonment (if said dangerous element is a behavior or culture or mental disorder). Work camps are good because of the latter.

While I do say this, it is important to note that the work camps of the SS were not as inhumane as everyone's favorite spanish communist here claims. As evidenced by the testimonies from actual inmates, they had football matches, theaters, orchestras, and even plays. One would ask why they'd illtreat the inmates and then subject them to such privileges.

Answer: They didn't. It's just more holohoaxes for the goyim.

Well, I know nothing will make you change your mind about it.
But the Holocaust, although it's usually accompanied by the 666 gorillion figure, refers to the masss extermination of jews, which despite the numbers, happened.

Oh, your youtube video sure changed my mind about the hours-long conversations I held with people of varied origin and background that were interned in Mauthausen, Evenssen Gussen, treblinka and Dachau about their experience there and how they watched their fellow prisoners die of exhaustion, starvation, despair, illness and brutal capo/SS beatings.

I'm spanish, proud and not a commie. It's just that I hate it when both jews and nazis like you fall for (or conciously spread) idiotic propaganda.

in capitalism by accumulatng assets you can move to top

in socialism you will not get to top unless you a member of party and promote shitty ideology.

hitler had anal hierarchy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Führerprinzip
nazi germany was even less stable than ussr

in ussr everything collapsed before 1990 and people lost interest to work.

of course they are
kys lefty parasite
germans wanted to purge world from non germans and in the end they will end up as eunuchs in muslims harem's
and that's good

>in capitalism by accumulatng assets you can move to top
>he believes the american dream to be real
kek

>But the Holocaust, although it's usually accompanied by the 666 gorillion figure, refers to the masss extermination of jews, which despite the numbers, happened.
I love debunking foolish lies such as yours. What, you had hour long discussions with Holohoax survivors? There are known liars who lied for DECADES before being found out. And these are just the ones that had huge blatant holes in their fabrications because their claims were extreme even by holohoax testimony standards.
Eat shit you spanish commie.
If you say so ya kike.

>this
the main problem with lefties are that they do not understand that there is a very little chance that they will have direct benefits from these ideologies
only up rank members will

>you can't be anti marxist because national socialism has no economical differences with communism they are all the same

What you've done

Asked a question
Read my response
Ignore everything I've said
Tell me I'm wrong or haven't answered the question
Then proceed to add nothing as to why you think you're right or have the facts on your side

Example

>national socialism has no economical differences with communism

One utilized markets to allocate resources and capital, one did not.
One enslaved it's own people through the use of Gulags, one did not
One caused widespread famines amongst its own people, one did not

The list goes on forever.

You're unequivocally wrong. The facts are not on your side in any way, Stop saying shit that isn't measurably by reality.

Why are you ignoring the shit that I am typing, is this all I'm going to get on this board now, people ignoring everything?

Everywhere with any credibility accepts that the definitions of "socialism" are vague and indefinite. That's where the describing form of socialism comes from. National Socialism, Marxist Socialism, etc.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_socialism

Look at this shit. Socialism is not specific to what you are saying.

...

>m-muh conversations!
Pic related is one who has NEVER ADMITTED TO BE A LIAR despite his claims being scientifically impossible. And he's lied for decades too.