Modern monetary theory

Is this true? Is national debt a meme?

Other urls found in this thread:

fee.org/resources/the-essential-f-a-hayek/
pragcap.com/yes-government-deficits-equal-private-surpluses/
treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Is deficit a good thing?

No. No. And no. Read your Austrians. At least start here:

fee.org/resources/the-essential-f-a-hayek/

no
accounting is not economics
accountants should read economics before fucking around with it from an accounting perspective
they don't understand that exchanges create mutual increases in realized value. (if they didn't, why would people bother to exchange?)

to get something that they don't have?

That picture reads like bullshit.

HHHHHUUUUUUURRRRRRRRR
DDDDDDDUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRR

IIIIIIIII'MMMMMMM AAAAAAA K K K
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKEYNESIANNNN

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

JUST PRINT MOR MONAY ND EVERYTING WERKSS HURRRRRRRRRRRRRR

pragcap.com/yes-government-deficits-equal-private-surpluses/

why not?

what are you supposed to do when you run out retard

so, to benefit? so if one person benefits, but the other doesn't, it doesn't happen, right? so two entities benefitting? mutually?

do you speak english natively?

Run out of what?

...

money

>jews started a revolution in germany!
>it didn't work but it almost did! so later jews wrecked the german economy! they had it coming! let's not specify precisely how they did that!
>ahem we need to inflate the currency that worked for hitler, only reason he lost is other countries inflated even more, harumph

>what is velocity
Monetarists are retarded, they use the equation

MV = PQ,

where M is monetary supply, V is velocity of money, Q is nominal GDP and P is an inflator/deflator adjustor to the GDP. But in their utter retardedness they assume that V is constant at all times and that P = 1 such that there is never any net inflation or deflation. Their models are plain wrong and when mixed with Keynesian bullshit they give us the mess we are in today.

actually where they're retarded is that they assume V even exists. it doesn't.

What are you 12?

what?
how can velocity not exist?

To whom do we owe our debt and what can they do against the strongest nation on Earth? If they do anything, they shoot themselves in the foot as our economy has its tentacles in every other economy of the world. The US has the world by the balls and because of that we can break the rules.

For every dollar borrowed 6 cents is owed. If we borrow only 1 dollar and we have no other money, we have to borrow that 6 cents as well, thus perpetuating our debt. Our entire system is set up around debt

Debt is meaningless and only effects small countries / countries that aren't the US.

As long as people continue to work, the debt means nothing.

we could always try to perfect planned production

it's not that "velocity" doesn't exist. money can have velocity. it just cannot be a mathematically relevant quantity in that equation because of M.

the money supply directly influences the purchasing power of money in the most absolute, fundamental way, by setting the ratio of goods {A, B, C, ...} to the money good, G. if you have amounts 10, 100, 1000 and amount 5, then you have fundamental ratios 2, 20, 200, etc.

something made up called "money velocity" can never change that, because this relationship is "position-independent." fundamentally, and keeping within the context of their metaphorical language of course, the purchasing power of money is in "superposition."

purchasing power and velocity are not and will never be related.

Of course it isn't a meme. How unbearably stupid and conniving do you have to believe it

i assume you're joking; soviets already proved that doesn't work.

>When the government handles your expenses you can turn up a bigger profit

WOWIE ZOWIE MODERN ECONOMISTS ARE SOPHISTS

velocity and money supply are closely related and almost the same thing. If somebody keeps loads of money and never spends it, we say that reduces velocity. This has the exact same effect as the money not existing at all, so the ratios you talk about will be affected in the same way. The only unfortunate difference is that low money circulation due to low velocity can very rapidly inflate unlike low money circulation due to low supply which requires a major gov fuckup to inflate at the same rate. So there is a difference and it is relevant imo.

The debt means the taxpayer has to pay loads more money, thats not nothing.

More or less.
But the screeching autists on here refuse to believe it.
The majority of debt is held by the federal reserve which in essence means it doesn't even exist at all, because they can just wipe it from their books if need be and literally nothing happens.

What if all the dollars the dollars they created come home at the same time?

If United States ignores their obligations to their creditors it will cause inflation and everything that isn't nailed down will be emptied off the shelves

But that's not how bonds work friendo.
Creditors can't just go "GIMME MY MONEY". The debtor can agree to pay back debt early at certain terms, but the creditor can never demand the money back unless the debtor becomes illiquid.

Yes, nobody actually cares about how trustworthy a country is in terms of how likely they are to get their money back. People like doing shit without receiving any form of compensation.

...

But that is how currencies work senpapi.

Everyone is just dreaming the same dream. As soon as people don't want dollars all of them all over the world are coming home at the same time.

Look out

it is... until it isn't
The elite will run us into the ground, and there isn't much we can do about it, because banks print money.

The real reason we were taken off the (((Gold Standard))) is so that we could be put on the (((Oil Standard))), otherwise known as the Petrodollar. Our alliance with Saudi Arabia dictates that Middle East oil has to be traded in dollars.

This alliance allows us to print money and shove it overseas, something no other nation can do. It's what lets us have reserve currency status, and allows us to control the world through the dollar. If countries want a drop of oil, they'll have to play ball and do whatever it takes so that bankers will trade dollars with them.

>yes goyim we can just wipe it all away
Then what is even the purpose of the debt, if there are no consequences to getting rid of it?

you cant buy things without money you fucking communist

Pretty much this. It makes me wonder why Russia is pushing to go back on gold. Do they know something everyone else doesn't?

No shit you moron, so don't run out of it.

Check and compare Russian and US debt.

exactly

Yeah but there's no reason to believe that overnight the USD would stop being the world reserve currency. I wrote a paper for one of my economics classes with this exact argument where I cited how the Spanish Silver used to be the world reserve currency and it's long and slow death as it was replaced.
There just does not exist at the moment another currency or country with soft power ties that could rapidly supplant us in that position. So we're fine.
Because there's tons of different types of debt being utilized in tons of different ways.

>national debt is good
As a very important source of strength and security, cherish public credit. One method of preserving it is to use it as sparingly as possible, avoiding occasions of expense by cultivating peace, but remembering also that timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it, avoiding likewise the accumulation of debt, not only by shunning occasions of expense, but by vigorous exertion in time of peace to discharge the debts which unavoidable wars may have occasioned, not ungenerously throwing upon posterity the burden which we ourselves ought to bear. The execution of these maxims belongs to your representatives, but it is necessary that public opinion should co-operate. To facilitate to them the performance of their duty, it is essential that you should practically bear in mind that towards the payment of debts there must be revenue; that to have revenue there must be taxes; that no taxes can be devised which are not more or less inconvenient and unpleasant; that the intrinsic embarrassment, inseparable from the selection of the proper objects (which is always a choice of difficulties), ought to be a decisive motive for a candid construction of the conduct of the government in making it, and for a spirit of acquiescence in the measures for obtaining revenue, which the public exigencies may at any time dictate.

Yes, national debt is a meme with a fiat currency the nation controls. An accounting trick given undue importance. Trade balance and the level to which you sell out sovereignty to foreign investors and kikes are far more important than debt to GDP.

With good trade balance and sovereignty you can just pile on the debt year after year without consequence, see Japan.

In a free market, the government only job is to make sure the numbers add up, that money accurately represent values. Its resource accounting. People decide what has value and where resources are put. Money just facilitate the organization. Unless your a commie and want the party leader to decide what has value.

Banks and wall streets are the worst offenders to economics. They create no value directly. They only move shit around so that things become more efficient in organization. They generate false resources.

I learn from history.

When niggers monetize it goes wrong, when Aryans and honorary Aryans monetize it goes right.

To account for "borrowed" resources. Basically trust and time.
I lend you a hammer.
You owe me a hammer.
You lose the hammer.
I don't trust you and will never lend you a hammer again.

hurrr what is bitcoin

The simple explanation is Banks and Wall Street are working on the basis of a profit motive.

Not all investments that are of importance in efficiency will return profits for the investor. Therefore when you let the banks and Wall St decide you are allowing them to distort the market to make profit not raise efficiency.

TLDR Profit motive does not always align with the economic investment in efficiency.

>meme
treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm
>2017 Fiscal Year Total Interest Payments by USG: $285,202,076,841.72
We spend almost 300 billion a year on interest payments. the national debt is not a meme.

Washington's administration was a pioneer in purposefully accumulating a national debt though. With all the states waiting on their money from the federal government, the states have a vested interest in the continued existence of that federal government over them, so they can collect on their money.

I would like to think that he was justified considering the revolt he had to put down and the ever real threat of the UK returning.

Listen to you what you are saying. The usa is selling itself out to debt, some for everyone else. When the scheme is over the world will be owned by the plutocrats. Whats going on now is insanity of the highest order.

leaving this here

still, this is a risky platform and MMTheorists are basically pants on head retarded

Is the austrian school the only non-interventionist?

WTF?

Is trying to say that this is a zero sum game?

Also, from where does it gets the idea that to have goverment surplus the private has to be in deficit or viceversa? And how did it define foreign sector?

We dont print anything. The federal reserve private bankers do. And more the debt we accumulate the more interest we pay for that compounded. The world is getting jewed over fake money. All we need to do is dishonor the USD and print our own debt free flat currency. America is going to break someday as we cant handle all this interest from these private banks.

> implying printing loads of money isn't the same as currency devaluation and would be treated as a de facto default by the markets
> Implying anyone would ever lend to you again

Why does no one get this? This is how Greece used to pay its debt before the Euro. Which is why it was perma junk debt.

Forget about the JewSA for a moment, they a jewish outlier.

The Japanese government doesn't hold up it's hand to plutocrats for a "loan", they just tell the BOJ to give it to them. Fiat money for nothing can work for a government run by people with discipline. Such as Aryans and honorary Aryans.

Yeah but who wants to be repaid with monopoly money?

Woops, it's actually over 400 billion a year now.

JUST PWINT DA MONAY WIFOUT A DOLARE STANDAWD N INFLASHON DUNTTT EXIST RHUUUURRRRRRR DDDHURRRRRRRRRRR

You may be a conservative.
You may be a liberal.
You may be a republican.
You may be a democrat.

But they're all autistic, filthy mouthed, goy slaves who suck central banking communist tavistock cock and love being willing slaves to their pedophile, drug riddled think tank and federal masters.

Implying a nation with a positive trade balance which didn't sell out it's sovereignty ever needs a foreign loan.

The supposed necessity of foreign loans and investment are a kike scheme. Foreign loans, investment and foreign investor protection are kike shackles to destroy nations.

KEYNESIANS are not human beings. They are communists.

Of course but the problem with Fiat currency is its easy to overprint and thus devalue. How does japan deal with inflation?

it doesn't. japan is dead. japan and sweden are testing zones for the nwo.

Wtf i love being a slave to debt and money now

wo-ah
woahhhh
wow

>Is the austrian school the only non-interventionist?

Of the big three, i.e. Keynesian, Chicago, Austrian, yes. It basically says, "Economics is the interaction of individuals. Anything we observe -- especially at the macro level -- is emergent behavior which we can only study as a natural phenomenon. Attempts at manipulation can only distort the market and cause it to be less efficient."

They have a shrinking population, that is an inherent deflationary pressures which printing money alleviate. Which is why chicken littles like Zero Hedge who call for creative destruction are so stupidly and consistently wrong.

If Japan had chosen creative destruction they'd have entered a deflationary spiral to rival anything since the great depression. Kikes would have bought their country for pennies on the dollar and they'd be royally fucked, they'd basically have to back out of every trade agreement and the WTO to get ownership of their country back.

Look at a country like New Zealand, they run a trade surplus year after year, but get deeper in debt year after year as well. They let their traitor government give their economy to foreigners for shiny beads. Now they have a mass chink invasion almost impossible to stop.

Greece doesn't have a fuckload of carriers and nuclear missiles, though.

Exactly this.

It was a smart play too. Otherwise you would have dirt farming Africans able to buy chunks of America by panning for gold in the local stream.

...

every time

i can't imagine what it must be like to actually believe in marxist "economics"

Do they think the supplies of goods is unchanging?
Fucking retards, this is what those smug economics major write up, absolutely insane. Yes in a proper economy they would all be running a surplus.

>workers try to get the most money for the labor
>employers try to get the most labor for their money
>their relationship is codependent, but inherently hostile
>people think it's sustainable
I can't imagine what it must be like to actually believe in non-marxist "economics".

Not all value is created by labor

Much value comes from nature.
No one made the land and it's fruits.

Free market socialists. (Yes, this makes sense if you actually think about it)

It's the notion that you have to redistribute to the lowest common denominator to spur economic activity because they will be the ones to spend their money in ways that generate the most economic activity.

The markets exist and decide what to produce. There is no command economy, the means of production are not seized, but it is socialist because product is still redistributed, taking from the haves and given to everyone. (Not just the poor, usually Keynesian initiatives are open to anyone who is willing to spend money.)

A copper deposit has no value until a worker put some labor into it.

well maybe if youre a tribal nigger in africa
even then you need to go gather dirt and make cakes

>I have no knowledge of the uses of copper.

you know why Jews run the world? Because they made you believe the economy is a science, when it isn't any more accurate than astrology.

define foreign loan. If it came from a global investment firm based on wall street would that be foreign? Goverments need debt - it isn't something to be terrified of - neither is it something to be abused

>has no value until a worker put some labor into it.

What do you buy when you buy a mine? The minerals or the people working on it?

America had no debts in colonial days since they printed money to fund the government.

You really need to grow out of this reductionist dialectic materialism bullshit

not everything can be reduced to monetary value and economic interests.

No one made the land or the trees and animals that grow on it, it takes little labor to harvest it.

What japan is doing has been tried in the USA and even way back when we lost the bank to foreign investors. It works for them because they are xenophobic and controlled by the yakuza.

Currently the only option for us is a government backed debt free flat currency. Or we could just stay the course until oil is worthless and say hello to a globalist one world government.

>buy a mine
>land is a commodity to be bought and sold

this

Jews word tricks again

Not true.

Applied economics is finance. People who are good at finance can consistently make gains.

>deforestation and recycling isn't real
We're all boned.

well both.
you buy the land and the assets to open the mine and the labour to run the mine

Well, rights for exploitation if you prefer.

Although I would concede that property is a goddamn can of philosophical/economical worms that extend to nationalism and every human interaction.

thats because they run the market

Old money was silver certificates backed with metal. There was no money printed without matching silver.

The only additional benefit of the certificate is that it was also enforced by fiat. The certificates had to be accepted by every state for all debts public and private. This way you don't have 13 competing national currencies making interstate trade a goddamn nightmare.

It was otherwise an ancap paradise with each state operating under its own ruleset.

>you buy the land and the assets

I don't have to buy the assets, infrastructure is a plus that increases the value but is not the value itself, after all I'm not interested in roads and workers just in the material that I intend to sell.

You buy labour and you get a lot more exchange value out of that labour.

Ohh god. The Liberal double think is real.

The only way that two informed people will decide to trade is if it's mutually beneficial to them. Zero-sum economics assumes every transaction to be a scam. It's mutually beneficial only if both people value the resource offered by the other party more than what they themselves are offering, trade hinges on value being subjective.

Simple thought experiment: take a fine sheet of cloth. What value does that hold to you? Probably nothing besides from what you can exchange it for. In the hands of a tailor? It holds much more worth.

The value of any resource is contingent on its allocation. This is a fundamental economic assumption, fucking obvious to a 5-year old, and why there is trade. If it wasn't true then each and every transaction would have to be a scam.

Its simple. Jews found out you can steal other peoples wealth by stealing their money in interest and loans. Usury is a sin, never forget it.

Yes, any loan from a multinational is inherently foreign, unnecessary, harmful and kike'ish. As is having multinationals in your country at all.

They should be anathema to any nationalist.