Will automation kill jobs for low skill workers?

How does Sup Forums think the increasing amount of automated jobs will affect the US economy and politics?

Other urls found in this thread:

fastcompany.com/3054028/inside-the-hack-rod-the-worlds-first-ai-designed-car
youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
businessinsider.com/hawaii-basic-income-bill-2017-6
archive.is/dy4Ai
wired.com/2017/03/artificial-intelligence-learning-predict-prevent-suicide/
politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/dec/11/barbara-lee/barbara-lee-says-60-percent-people-food-assistance/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

We should really start a campaign that Amazon is implying the nigger is stealing that shit

Sound interesting, please elaborate

>Follow someone inside
>Grab shit off shelves
>Leave

Great business model Amazon, 10/10

Thanks for the free stuff

kick out illegals and we're going to be fine.

still loads of shit to do, those machines dont clean themselves and wont be able to for a long time.

Will automation kill jobs for low skill workers?
It's already doing so. Wait till all the drivers get out of jobs (fairly soon) you'll have several millions unemployed. The creative jobs are no safer either, AI is getting smarter and smarter.

>The creative jobs are no safer either
these are by far some of the safest honestly.

there will always be a need to do design work of any kind.

It will kill the jobs of all workers eventually

daily reminder that there would be near zero unemployment if there was no minimum wage and welfare

how many people can you have designing shit? also what you consider design (web for example) can easily be automated, hell AI can even design cars based on past purchasing trends fastcompany.com/3054028/inside-the-hack-rod-the-worlds-first-ai-designed-car

automation is sort of a meme. technology is hard to predict, as evidenced by the fact that we arent in flying cars rn.

I linked you the wrong AI car design, can't find the one witch based its design on the most bought cars of the previous year but the one I've linked you seems to be quite legit as well

Low skills workers? Its reached high skills jobs as well. Japan is already replacing humans with bots in the insurance industry. My local bank used to have at least 10 people working in it. Now theres only 3. 1 bank manager and two loan specialists. Hell even government jobs are now at least 60% automated. Even if you expelled every migrant, companies still see automation as the cheaper option.

This video explains it well

youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

potential.

>how many people can you have designing shit?
as many as you want
there is unlimited demand for labor at $0

>also what you consider design (web for example) can easily be automated
it really cant be for now. ai will just be another tool the designer will use if he wants.

there are loads of things that still need designing like games, movies, tv shows, comics, websites, programs, manufactured products.

that car is a piece of shit.

yeah, cuz then everyone without a job would be homeless and not counted in the unemployment stats

top kek

so were you when you were small, and I have a feeling that it's going to grow up faster and better than you in every way

>games, movies, tv shows, comics, websites, programs, manufactured products.
all those things can be done by like 0.1% of people or less there's 7 billion of us.

no if the price of labor comes down enough there will always be new jobs created

>post-scarcity

they could also be done by 100% of the people you will just have more of them

you're retarded my man

There are already tools to automate engineering work.
We're all fucked
t. engineer

Why not if video game developers worked for free who wouldnt hire them?

>all those things can be done by like 0.1% of people or less there's 7 billion of us.
so we kick out illegals, problem solved.

There's still tons of room for manual laborers. Every person in my neighborhood has a yard crew come around every couple of weeks. Anything that involves repairs/refurbishing/maintenance is going to remain. Also all the QA/QC and regulatory functions of every business aren't going to be automated.

That's tons of jobs that aren't ever going to be touched.

I know I'm fucked when we've got sophisticated AIs to replace us in R&D.

Not just low skilled workers. Jobs like accountant and computer programmer are going to be hit hard too. Yes, obviously the solution to millions of jobs disappearing is to increase immigration from the 3rd world.

No. these are not the safest jobs.
These are jobs that dont even require us to combine good robotics with good AI.

All you need for design is alghorithyms that see how popular preexisting designs are, they can then just emulate them and try new things. Seeing what kind of music people like or how they want their architecture to be built will easily be automated, google already knows.

The least safe jobs are the pure mundane stuff in a controlled environment. So factories, harvesting crops, food preperation. These things can easily be automated using existing technologies.

The next unsafe are purely analytical jobs. Computers are already better than doctors at diagnosing illness. A lawyer-bot is going to be able to cross refference the body of all president much better than any lawyer. An engineering program will design a functional bridge.

After this comes creative jobs, only because they have to do the above but need some sort of feedback input from society. This isnt that hard since everyone is already tracked online and likes, thumbs up/down, assigns a star rating, or something similar, to everything they have an option to do so. It will only be slightly more difficult to have an artificial composer than an artificial doctor, only slightly.

Lastly, the most secure jobs are those that require physical tasks in a non-fixed non-controlled enviornment. A robot that comes into your house, doesnt crush your dog or kid, and repairs your washing machine. It will have to be autonomous, smart, as well as physically capable of human-like dexterity, Importantly it will have to interact directly with people in a personal way, so it will above all kinds of things need to be the most personable, the most comfortable to be around.

Once we can replace the cable guy with a machine there will be no more jobs.

There's always a place for you in manual labor, anons.
It ain't so tiring after a while.

>Trusting your drive safety to some hack-able IA which government and others can use to kill you and your family and get away with it.

Not thanks.

>All you need for design is alghorithyms
>alghorithyms
if anyone needed more proof you're just a retard spewing shit then here it is.

This is where Food and Goods credits come into the equation.
>automate majority of jobs so most people are on a "welfare"
>the ones who own the businesses are dominate because they have another source of income/equity besides these credits
>another class system is born and all the problems with it come to light again.

nice argument with your singles

i really dont need one considering how stupid you are you wouldnt even understand it.

art fags are actually safer than loads of other jobs.

tax the shit outa the fucking robots, it will slow it down for the transition into the permeant plenty no work economy like star trek.

or just allow deflation to happen

We already have the technology for machines to create artificial compositions by feeding in a large amount of data. Having that modified on the fly by seeing what the population likes and doesnt like will result in music and images and eventualy entire cg films tailor made for the common audience and eventually for target demographics.

It is not complicated at all, it just requires a lot of iterations.

>correcting grammar
This is'nt reddit; fag

>Will automation kill jobs for low skill workers?
That's the plan lol
It will mean more unemployment and welfare

It's the beginning of a cashless society in America, based on smartphones first and then gradually upon chips or tattoos or some other sort of implant. It's just some dumb idea right now, an idiotic spectacle \ television commercial, but that's how it starts. S l o w l y . Kids will get used to it, and in ten years it will be completely normal and matter of fact and expected. Cash will be phased out mostly, but probably never all the way. Drug deals and the black budget rely on it, without which the entire economy and country would collapse. But for ordinary day-to-day shit, money won't exist. Just another factor of the Surveillance Society, with bank accounts physically embedded in you at all times, weird shit like those retina scans that can identify you from fifty yards away, etcetera. It's all starting with this Jeff Bezos faggot.

It will kill some jobs, but nowhere near enough people are making it out to be. Amazon, for example, can do it because of the amazing infraestructure they have. People who praise automation and regard it a trivial thing achieve generally lack the technical background and talk out of their ass, like .

This. And there will be nothing you'll be able to do to fight back, everything you do even right now is tracked. I guarantee you that they have a profile on most people who post here. I used with my parents that if Facebook was available in the time of Ceauses he wouldn't have needed informants, people tell you where they are and what they're doing voluntarily 24/7. Not to mention the permanent tracking and listening device we're all carrying with us.

In twenty years fifty percent of jobs will be gone through automation. That's why you're hearing about guaranteed basic income. With so many unemployable people they will need some means to get by. I think the global elites have a back up plan to eliminate a large portion of humanity through war and pestillence.

I used to joke with my parents*
Ceausescu*
It's late.
Not an argument.

But they wouldn't work for free you fucking retarded monkey

It will generate people that doesnt get jobs, because they are not needed.
If i look into my magicall 8-ball will increase hacking crimes and implode industries.
Get machines to build faster and cheaper.
Fire workers.
Less income for buyers of the products.
Products need to be cheaper, so every company will go automation.
Even less income now.
Market wil reach a piont of saturation and that people dont buy everything anymore, consume will stagnate.
Now machines are not cheap anymore, upgrades that they can produce other products isnt cheap but risky.
industry implodes and maybe only some big companies survive that have enough money to wait for the exodus to end.

Guess at some point in history there will be a tax for machines. Machine equals 10 workers and is autonom, so the company has to pay a tax for 10 workers. Products that cant prove that at least x amount of workers worked on it get a tax that the company has to pay.

This.

That might actually work.

>>Trusting your drive safety to some hack-able IA which government and others can use to kill you and your family and get away with it.
>Not thanks.

1. Govt would see hackable car being in their benefit (end 90% of car chases instantly with the vehicle locking it's doors and driving straight to jail, because thugs didn't think to disable or bypass software)

2. Cars can't get drunk, distracted, or talk on cell phones so insurance companies see them as less of a liability than you in the majority of 'real life' situations.

3. Corps will have already used auto-drivers to cut out employee fees in transportation buisness, and have set a precedent of functioning passably for

4. Great way to control traffic flow and remove individual liability.

You can oppose it all you want, but eventually, it will become the new standard, and then, it will become mandatory (and your neighbors will support it for their safety and ease.)

I'll say this:

If a candidate doesn't mention and have an economic plan surrounding automation, then they are a liar. See: Hillary and Trump.

If they have an economic plan that features taxing businesses that invest in automation, they are luddites and should be ignored: Elizabeth Warren.

If they have an economic plan that encourages automation and invests in UBI and higher corporate tax rates, embrace them, for they show a path to the golden age of man.

All citizens should own a share of machine labor and receive dividends for the machine labor much like the Alaskans and their Alaska Permanent Fund.

Hawaii is well on it's way to being a leader for these United States:
businessinsider.com/hawaii-basic-income-bill-2017-6

Beware of the luddites who say that the next step in human evolution (children of the mind, AGI) are not coming. They will arrive in 15 years, but during that time gap the ANI will begin replacing jobs at an alarming rate.

Divorce yourself from the idea that labor = worth and you may yet survive to see man's golden glory and the rise of our progeny.

Why didn't you archive?
archive.is/dy4Ai

People fail to realize the rate of technological evolution. 15 years ago seems like the stone age compared to now and 15 years in the future the difference will be even more accentuated.

And hacking will increase.
A machine just believes what the databank says is right.
Since its easier to hack or get into a chip than a brain to "convience" it.
At least till now, lets wait for Johnny Pneumonic or ghost in the shell human implants.

As machine vision improves it will be devastating because the manufacture of pretty much anything, a hamburger, a house, etc can be performed by a robot arm or a specialized group of them.

Deflation cannot happen with the central banks controlling everything.

Good points.
I even see more problems with laws and responsibilities.

>Car crashes into a group of schoolkids
>Driver says, its the car companies fault
>Companie says its chip producer fault
>Producer says its programmers at company fault
>Company says that driver did something wrong to bypass security protocols
>In the end noone is responsible for it

Or that suddenly a hacker hijacks a car and drives it in a dark alley.

Hard to say. You will always need low skilled workers, but automation is absolutely killing off some of those jobs. A lot of the time people think about it only in an "all or nothing" scenario.

Consider McDonalds order taking machines. The argument often used is nobody will use them, but that isn't true at all. If McDonalds adds 3 of these machines and closes down a register, you will have a significant number of people that will use the machine to avoid the line that is now building up from the closed register. The register job stays, but the required people to do it is lower.

What automation usually does is removes "that guy" who is around just because he has always been around, or the part time workers and replaces them with full time workers. Added in are jobs with maintenance repair on the machine (for the above example). There is still absolutely a net loss of jobs though.

Another thing to keep in mind is it actually removes the need for low level management as well. A lot of low level managers are basically low level workers who aren't complete fuck ups and show leadership. With automation, these people are demoted back to the worker position, since you don't have to hire trash as much anymore.

To answer OP, increased automation is already affecting the economy and politics, and will continue to do so in the same way. The "wage gap" you constantly hear about is a direct (and probably only real significant currently) result of this.

Source: I have been advising small-medium businesses how to reduce their workforce through automation for almost 20 years.

>There is still absolutely a net loss of jobs though.
Dont think so.
At least there is a shift from low skill to high skill worker and not eveyone can get that high skill.
And as an example, electro cars have a simpler engine, less parts resulting in less workers needed. And the maintance is better too, that means that the electro car need 1/4 of repair than a regular, means less technicans.

With automatons you will have some maintance, repair, but the question is, if its high enough to get a net loss. And a machine dont need sleep is stronger, quicker.

A net loss is possible, but i dont see it, since machines can compensate it.

>All citizens should own a share of machine labor
In exchange for what exactly? For the privilege of consuming yet more resources with no return? When the pyramid of power hands yet more control to those with system access you predict they will proceed to 'responsibly' return that power to the common people? To what end? It is not in their benefit to elevate or share their power with those who can now offer nothing.


>Divorce yourself from the idea that labor = worth and you may yet survive
Survival is dependent on the grace of those who maintain control, towards those who are their subsidiaries. The attitude of the subsidiaries is primarily irrelevant towards their survival (though trying to prove themselves useful or well mannered towards their patrons is probably a good indicator towards survival.)

Both Ideal Democracy and Communism overturn classical class elitism by forwarding the idea that the inferior many may overwhelm and crush the superior few (and thus the superior few must tread lightly to placate the masses.) Advances of the automated age inverts this power pyramid and places the very advantages of the numberless many into the hands of the superior few (those few who may control production and automation.)

You predict a future of equals, with a technology that only promises societal inequality of the likes never before seen. A new nobility will make themselves into gods, but they will not be obliged to share their heavens.

I'm in one of the few jobs that is future proofed at least until I retire, Psychiatric Nursing can't really be done by A.Is and robots

>You predict a future of equals
That's the best option you can hope for.

There are other options. Trust me when I say that you wouldn't want to see an emergence of Neo-Feudalism. Let's say for instance you had to races of human, the vanilla variety of the unenhanced and the post humans of tomorrow with enhanced mental acuity, physical prowess, and negligible senescence, would you like to live in such a world.

Trust me when I say you'd always be in the former and never the later because you are neither monied or connected enough to fall into the potential post human pot. You better hope that AGI is a great equalizer and not disparity machine, else you'll be just like everyone else and your being white won't mean a damn thing in the face of what might as well be literal gods.

I don't understand what you are saying.

In the vast majority of cases (on a person by person basis, not job by job basis) there will be less people in the workforce because of automation when you consider all aspects.

You are correct that in some cases they will, or the job gain on the front side of the automation makes up for the low level job loss, but usually it doesn't.

These people don't get fired then go read a book to try to get a better job. They drop out of the workforce instead or go on welfare or something. It's actually a major problem. I would feel bad for contributing to it, but I'm kind of hoping some kind of purge happens.

Not completely, yet.

wired.com/2017/03/artificial-intelligence-learning-predict-prevent-suicide/

The problem is that human labor is approaching worthlessness.

Theoretically you could hire on more workers if you could pay them half as much, but they would all be dirt-poor.

Increased demand for a product or service is gradually becoming unrelated to the need to hire on more American workers.

Companies now either outsource or automate.

>A net loss is possible, but i dont see it, since machines can compensate it.

Are you maybe confusing 'jobs' with 'labor'?

Jobs are positions people are paid for (generally under the idea that they perform some useful labor.)

Labor is a specific amount of valuable/useful work done (either by individual people, by collective groups, or by machines.)

>Will automation kill jobs
yes, it will

we should oppose automation instead of hoping for miracles like UBI which are never going to happen, but as always muh comfort comes first

>The problem is that human labor is approaching worthlessness.
no its not
it is just going below what you can get on welfare
take away welfare and this problem goes away

There is literally nothing wrong with automation.

1. No taxes
2. Basic income
3. Only the most talented can get rich
4. More time for hobby's, art and creativity.
5. No stress from wageslavery.


It only hurts slimeballs who get ahead by unfair methods like office politics.

>2. Basic income
Why should I pay you to do nothing?

So i can spend it to buy your product.

I work in a high secure psychiatric hospital m8, AI would be a useful tool for prevention but with regards to treatment it will likely never be implemented just with regards to some of the paranoid delusions of the patients

Try telling/explaining to someone who is floridly psychotic that the robot is here to help

Why should I give you my product for nothing in return?

You'd have been mistaken to have judged me a hopeful person, some neo-noblis. I do not labor under any such illusion. I came from clay, I will return to clay.

That's a bullshit Fox News lie. Many recipients of welfare programs are employed.

About half of food stamp recipients are employed, for example.

politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/dec/11/barbara-lee/barbara-lee-says-60-percent-people-food-assistance/

To continue existing.

Corporate welfare is one of America's biggest issues, stop prostituting your people to the profit of big business

Because the state has a gun to your head, kulak.

> taxation if theft reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Come to this thread faggots!

>Try telling/explaining to someone who is floridly psychotic that the robot is here to help

I've a better one, try explaining to the robot why we should help the floridly psychotic when we can just manufacture five more insightful robots for the value of rehabilitating one lunatic meatbag.

Thankfully, we don't need to make robots ask those sorts of questions.

Why do I care if you exist?
instead of paying 2 people to do nothing it is cheaper to pay 1 person to protect me
It doesn't matter if they are employed or not
Food stamps keeps the price of food artificially high

Why should a person pay to live?

Both questions have justified answers based upon one's economic and philosophical perspective.

However, what isn't subjective is our need for an answer now. It's not the hardware that will shake America but the software that will destroy white collar jobs.

PREPARE FOR INJECTION

Come to this thread faggots!

Because if i dont exist you wont exist.

>Why should a person pay to live?

>Because if i dont exist you wont exist.
not following you

>open small restaurant
>initial investment for robot burger flippers to high
Also need insurance, maitanance, back-ups in case of failure, constant checks on machinery.
>tfw this will be a boon for small business.

I think it will lead to collapse of society and a radical restructuring of basically everything.

>Basic income
THERE IT IS
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAAHHAHA

Because if nobody has jobs nobody has any money to buy your shit, you have no customers. Without customers you cease to exist.
You lose everything instead of continue living as you were.

I
1 Either have everything I want(unlikely)
2 Pay people to do things that I want
There will never be no jobs because there is unlimited demand at the right price

Good luck convincing the world of this you fucking idiot, you realise you'd lose some of the most important scientific minds in the world by getting rid of people with mental health issues

You're still stuck assuming that 'capitalism' or 'economics' simulate anything resembling a post-automation/post-fabrication world. You assume the producer needs to do anything more than control the resources he requires to produce for his own production/consumption needs.

Your mere existence is no longer an opportunity (a market), but now instead a competitor (another possible producer/consumer.) You are no longer a valued customer, you are a threat.

AI maye have no, or greatly different value to 'scientific minds/progress'. It no longer needs to play the gambling game of entertaining 500 lunatics who talk to pigeons in hopes that one of them is the next Tesla.

Instead it may see a much greater value in more controlled, incremental advances as it has the luxury of waiting (with no natural lifespan to impede playing the 'long game'.)

I'm not saying I hate the mentally disabled, I'm just saying that advances like AI or transhuman beings do crazy things to moral obligations and expectations. Human life undergoes re-evaluation.

art created by someone on basic income sounds fantastic

lmao
it takes a real fucking genius to come up with real-world application for circular logic
let me try and convince you that what you're saying is retarded before you embarrass yourself further:
>Without customers you cease to exist.
why?
if your customers are buying your products with money that you gave them you are making no net profit from them
how are they necessary from your existence when they are at best completely useless and at worst a significant drain on your resources?

why not produce with yourself using your own robots and cut out the middleman/"customer"?

The price of food is artificially LOW due to subsidies.
You really don't get capitalism.

Yes, if you paid everyone a penny you'd have full employment, but the employment wouldn't be worth anything.

What good are jobs if they don't give you enough money to buy shit on?