So my question is /Pol, where do you think the Romans would fit in here? Everyone seems to be biased in one way or another when speaking on the subject. I'd always assumed the Romans were intermediate Europeans, light-skinned, short, Mediterranean in appearance. But every time I find a source suggesting this, someone from one side or another comes in making a claim to the empire for their people.
So, with all these claims going around. Who actually were the bloody Ancient Romans?
I expect a large number of people coming here just to laugh at the 'AfricaResource' link, here is a quote to wet your whistle:
> "Not so for today’s so-called white people who were actually called barbarians and hated by the Roman state and Empire" - Rasta Wire
Although I'd very much like to get an answer to the question. Rome seems to be a mystery!
Kayden Allen
They would look like slightly off white people with dark, curly hair. They were shorter than their Gallic neighbors and darker as well. Blonde hair was extremely rare, so much so that people with blonde hair were named that (Rufus, Rubio, etc.).
Eli Jones
Faggots
Dylan Torres
I've seem so many posts of people wanting serious, philosophical, historical, or interesting topics on /Pol, instead of just trolling and race-bating.
Congratulations. You're officially part of your problem.
Andrew Morgan
This seems to be the consensus, but there are so many arguments going on surrounding it.
Romans were more than likely near identical to Greek people.
Brown hair or Dark Brown hair, Brown or Green eyes. Curly hair, could be straight who really knows. And more prominent facial features
Luis Hernandez
strangely enough, they looked pretty much like modern italians
Daniel Price
I think both parties have a dog in this fight. The Africans are fucking retarded. Ancient Greeks certainly did not resemble sub-saharan Africans in any way, shape or form. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if Greeks had some lighter features in Antiquity that have been lost due to thousands of years of wars and conquest BUT if Amren wants to be taken seriously in discussion about race then they need to move into a more scientific understanding of race which can be mapped much more accurately these days.
Greece has been at the centre of the world for pretty much all of written history. New evidence may suggest the first humans were around the Mediterranean. I don't think anybody truly knows the makeup of ancient Greeks and thus can't accurately measure what is Greek and not.
You look at Athens today and it's most obviously a bunch of brown Turks. But, imagine looking at London and saying that was what Brits looked like in history. The Turkish conquests were probably the most disastrous to ethnic lineage. Half my family is from Lesvos and they're all light-brown haired and light-tanned skin but my other half family isn't related to me but they are cypriots and they're absolutely brown and dark black hair and big features.
The ancient Romans varied greatly as time went on and their empire grew. The genes of Greeks today somewhat match the genes of ancient Sicilians and modern Sicilians resemble the ancient north Africans thanks to the Moors.
Jonathan Edwards
Never would have guessed
Robert Miller
Yes, Romans were big strong blond haired blue eyed nordic men, see attached quote from caesar
Nicholas Murphy
>still posting that shitty stormnigger source If Malalas and Sieglin are good sources then I'm the pope.
Ian Nelson
Yea, but they also claim caligula has a blonde beard when he was literally wearing gold pretending to be zeus
Alexander Reed
You do realize Gauls are germanic/nordic?
Camden Thomas
Yes, Gauls and Romans were all germanic/nordic
Alexander Watson
>stormnigger No. Multiple literature sources in the pic also. >h-he wasn't blonde he just had a solid gold beard Are you this fucking retarded?
I'm not blonde btw I'm med
I never said ALL of them were nords, but lots of them were
Carson Sanchez
>Multiple literature sources in the pic also. yes, Malalas, a guy who was born way after the WRE had collapsed and is not considered valuable source by most historians, and Sieglin himself, a nordic wewuzer himself
just because someone reports sources doesn't mean they are good
Jayden Torres
Considering their enemy was Germanic/nordic I am sure some came into Rome and Romans probs raped them forming med/nord babys
Andrew Anderson
this again?
I thought we agreed that white people are diverse.
Caleb Wood
me.
Charles Diaz
>But oftentimes he exhibited himself with a golden beard, holding in his hand a thunderbolt, a trident, or a caduceus, emblems of the gods, and even in the garb of Venus. He frequently wore the dress of a triumphing general, even before his campaign, and sometimes the breastplate of Alexander the Great, which he had taken from his sarcophagus.
Hunter Rivera
>You look at Athens today and it's most obviously a bunch of brown Turks Good job destroying your credibility.
You stormfags are human trash. Literally worse than niggers. Stop trying to steal the achievements of the mediterranean people.
Jaxon Fisher
The Romans were a mixed culture even when they were in the early Etruscan days, that's my educated guess. I assume that from their pottery and art which always depicted some white people, some brown people and some black people. Roman wasn't an ethnicity, it was a nation I think.
Jack Martinez
Find me another source, the burden of proof now lies with you. >the enemy Far from the truth actually, it's a common misconception. Lots of native Britons, and other native euros were taken as slaves from wars though. Examples being Boadicea of Albion. Golden as in blonde, you retard. We are.
Asher Bailey
she is beautiful. any idea who it was?
Brayden Perry
>Find me another source, the burden of proof now lies with you. that's not how it works, there simply are no contemporary sources describing many of the Roman phenotypes the only credible one, Suetonious, describes some in more detail, some less
Kevin Carter
AFAIK Italians today are still pretty much what they were back then. Romans did have slaves from the rest of Europe.
Andrew Perez
gauls were celts, gaul was today's france, almost exactly the same borders. So not germanic and certainly not nordic. If by nordic you mean appearance/race, they were described as tall and blond, and also redheaded. So you're kind of right but red hair is not a nordic trait. It comes from predominatley dark haired populations like celts, jews, some slavs, north-west semites, central asians and even some south asians (in the far north like pakistan and afghanistan)
Hudson Murphy
>Romans were mostly of African Stock Fucking retarded claim.
Jaxon Carter
Then why are you saying I'm wrong? If you have sources, lost them.
William Hall
I am simply telling you that said sources are not credible, that simple. Put your double digit IQ at use here.
Michael Nguyen
>checked And where did those achievements go, Alexos? Why hasn't Greece had noteworthy civilization for oh, about 1500 years?
Jayden Phillips
Are you fucking retarded? Every major western city is filled with demographics that aren't representative of the rest of the population.
The black ghettos in Paris are not French. The fucking brown degenerates walking around Athens that are rape babies from the Ottoman Empire are not Greeks.
Go back to Turkey you fucking goat fucker.
Joseph Smith
Yes, he grew out and maintained his beard and held a real thunderbolt and ignore the fact that they use a different word describing blond haired in your own picture
Jack Sanchez
lol athenians are the whitest greeks, more so then northern greeks.
Jonathan Sanchez
Have you ever considered that civilizations are dependant upon multiple factors?
The west will collapse, whites will become even more of a minority and India and China will be the most advanced civilizations within 500 years. And some chinaman is going to say "oh, if Sweden so good then why it collapse?"
Get a higher IQ, you fucking retard.
Leo Wood
are you retarded? you think southern europeans can only be blond if they have northern european ancestry? Its a mediterranean trait too, its just far more common in northern europeans.
Noah Rogers
1488 holy fuck alexander himself
Gabriel Sullivan
I know that nobody will believe this but I'm Albanian and I look like this. The albanian population has way too many mixed types if you visit and live here you will notice that. However there is a consistent phenotype here that is maybe 15-30% which looks like classical greek statues (pic related)
Elijah Russell
Maybe China, but India? Close to 50% their children are malnourished, and the fertility of the underclass is much higher than everybody elses.
Julian Harris
You look like a woman?
Wyatt Perry
> their pottery and art which always depicted some white people, some brown people and some black people. Because they worked with three traditional colors you moron >Roman wasn't an ethnicity, it was a nation I think Jesus fucking Christ you went full Retard. A nation is a generic ethnicity bonded by common history and language (and most often a common state) "Roman" was a demonym for a city state, not a nation. The nation that did run Rome would be the Latins, a group of ethnically homogenous speakers of Latin, an Indo-European ethnic group that colonized Italy around 1000bc. They were most definitely not a multiracial or multicultural society, but rather an ethnically and culturally segregated one.
Caleb Anderson
> black Europeans
thats some merkelism shit right there
Nathan Howard
Said Latins were under strong Etruscan influence though, so it's very possible they ruling elites of both intermarried. In any case, "Latin" was just the name of the particular tribe that was around Rome, there's no reason to assume they were much different from the other Italics who had arrived into Italy between 2k BC and 1k BC and mixed with the locals.
Jose Anderson
You are pointing to ethnic collapse as the cause of the current hegemony failing, which I agree with, but you refuse to even *consider* that perhaps that very ethnic collapse caused the failure of Grecian civilization? How mature.
Though I agree multiple factors are likely. One cannot consider a society healthy that spends most of its sexual energy on codified pedophilia amd homosexuality. What kind of parasites must have taken hold of Greece with that kind of ripe vector for disease?
Jackson Rivera
*zip Let's see them tatties...
Benjamin Perry
Well, there actually is reason to believe the Latins came late to the party. Their own origin myths say as much. And they certainly mixed with the Etruscans, as that is also in their origin myth. However, that mass IE immigration that brought the Etruscans and later the Latins was an ethnically homogenous immigration itself, and probably far from a peaceful process, as most archaeological evidence of IE invasion coincides with a near genetic wipe of the former population. Think Columbus vs the native Americans: dense farming communities living side by side with animals sharing diseases like they shared meals, meeting hunter gatherers with under developed immune systems and no resistance to deadly diseases of the invaders. It's not hard to imagine the outcome of that, even assuming no warfare whatsoever.
Jack Gray
Their origin myth is very much just imitating the Greeks in their seek of their remote origin, hardly a strong evidence of anything.
>as most archaeological evidence of IE invasion coincides with a near genetic wipe of the former population that's utterly wrong, not sure where you are getting that
Chase Collins
Perhaps they looked like Sardinians.
Isaiah Butler
Lessons from Caesar (pronounced Kaisar) in Gaul:
You can fuck with a Gaul/Nordcuck and they'll surrender or run away.
Fuck with a Roman, and they burn down your city.
Angel Powell
>wine coloured
so purple?
Evan James
Sardinians and Corsicans are closely related to the Etruscans and Phoenicians who settled their islands as much as 3000 years ago.
Elijah Sullivan
Look at italians and spaniards, a little more pale than them because of their modern shitskin dna.
Xavier Diaz
No i look like this. I am trying to say that there is a substantial and extremely under studied "classical" looking population in Northern Albania and Kosovo. I dont deny there is substantial muslimified turk presence in population since ottoman rape also. But nonetheless modern greeks dont resemble greek statues at all and im saying that there is 15-30% of albanians that do and that this is suspicious
Ayden Wright
Sorry forgot to tag you
Brayden Martin
...
Easton Rodriguez
These are two albanian nationalist brothers who fought against the turks
Asher Martin
Get academic help. All that you wrote is wrong.
Daniel Jackson
...
Jayden Sullivan
Contrary to what the retarded Vargfags, neopagans, and Stormfront neckbeards will tell you, ancient Romans were a relatively swarthy and dark-haired people, not unlike modern day Italians. Another reminder that Meds were the true founders of western civilization.
Joshua Lopez
Prolly looked like what Germans would describe as "Südländer". Mediterranean or... y'know, take a look at Italians.
Nathaniel Mitchell
You nordcucks and african niggers have nothing to do with the roman empire! The only thing you did to it was help to its collapse! You should be ashamed to try to take over the mediterranean master race's heritage, go try to find a thing of worth in your cultures before you try to take over mine.
Brody Ortiz
the upper class had lighter features, not because they were germanic but because they took germanic slaves and used them for breeding, lighter features became more common.
Caleb Wilson
Low IQ mongrels from the USA should mind their own business.
Gabriel Mitchell
OH STAHP IT YOU
Jeremiah Powell
The 'so-called white' "people" of today are/were the barbarians. The last surviving romans fled east to what became known as the byzantine empire. They held it together for much longer but were eventually toppled, one of their last hold-outs Constantinople was famously put under seige by the ottomans. Now you know why it's such a big deal, they were the last remnants of the roman legacy. If the romans western region hadn't been destroyed by the whites/barbarians they could've had the resources and man power to keep their empire going indefinitely
Nathan James
They were the original cucks
Samuel Evans
They were Italics and looked like modern day Italian people. How hard is this to understand?
Jacob Foster
This person does not have the classic features. He looks like a roman statue, which is appropriate. But not like greek and macedonian statues that have nose bridges that blend straight into the forehead
Matthew Wilson
>OP asking for a intellectual discussion >Frog added no substance and instead brought out a fallacy.
Hunter Thomas
All true, but both Italy and Greece still have redheads and pee-blonde people let alone 20-40% (varies region to region) blue/green eyes. Even Italy had 0.56% red heads and one of my Greek friends is a natural read head, not ginger but actually red. Herodotus already contrasted features of Northern Europeans (like Scythians) to Greeks so I'm not sure how this is still discussed.
Jack Diaz
god this board is such ass cancer now
Jordan Harris
I think mediterranean genetics are superior to nordic,much deeper roots there.
Kayden Carter
Alexander the great for example. Show me a photograph of one greek that resembles him
Caleb Murphy
This. Romans were Greeks. If you don't understand why, can't make the connection or want to argue- than go back to that $15 credit/hour community college that you went to for half a semester and demand your money back.
Wyatt Brooks
Yes but you're making the assumption that comparing statues/busts/sculptures is 100% appropriate when they were basically just works of art. It's still the best way to identify features though especially with bronzes and early terracottas. It's just important to be aware of because we can take 5 different busts of Apollo or Plato for example and you will never believe they're all depicting the same person, we can take a bust of a leader and a bust of a god too and they will be almost identical because rulers often used art as propaganda.
pic related is something you might like to save
Asher Gray
You are trying to underplay the attention to detail that an artist would have to pay when doing a bust of an emperor. There are trends that can then be seen to emerge such as the nose blending into the forehead phenotype. Alexander the Great is a perfect example. He has many many busts made and while there is considerable variation there is still the feeling of him preserved.
The Romans depicted themselves very accurately and to this day their statues resemble them. Whereas greeks are missing in this regard. Where did all the "classical" phenotypes go. I'm telling you, come to kosovo and you will see it. 15-30% bear in mind.
Matthew Richardson
This is a statue found in Korca Albania. Note the nose and forehead
Camden Johnson
WE
Hunter Reed
>Be Italian >Family has kept a very long record of ancestry >Still in touch with extended family in America and Italy >Most of us have blue eyes >None of us look Nordic >Mfw desperation is a foul smelling cologne
Elijah Hughes
>Whereas greeks are missing in this regard. >I'm telling you, come to kosovo and you will see it. No I think you're just an Albanian Turk that is a tad mad because you sincerely think that and are the same but ok
Compare pic related with and move on. If you think every single Greek is going to resemble Alexander the Great then move on.
Easton Ward
maybe i'm an idiot but wouldn't statues of the time and other art from then answer this?
Cameron Gonzalez
Why owuld you come to a place , whihci s full with uneducated retards from mainly slavic lands and slavic diaspora in the US?
This board used to be clever and frequented by intelligent people. Nowadays it's juist some retarded dumb dumbs.
They don't read, speak or understand latin/ancient greek/german or any relevant language pertaining the subject for what it matters.
Stop replying to these retarded threads and let them die.
Anthony Scott
omg the pic you posted is clearly a turk. You have no clue what I am talking about because your some dumbfuck who lives in canada. Pic related is an actor from here. This phenotype that he kind of exemplifies is common here (like i said before 15%-30) and there are people you see on the street that literally look like the fucking statues.
Seutonius and some other guys record numerous Roman emperors, born in the city of Rome Roman, had blue, green, or grey eyes with blond hair. Although statues of Augustus give him red hair as scientists have discovered, althogh the iron from the red paint has faded into mor of a brown and has lost it's luster, the paint is indeed that for a redhead.
The reason why I mention this (who cares about statues if Seutonius says otherwise) is because Suetonius was born some generations after Augustus died, and so he could possibly get it wrong, and the Cogonem/family name of Augustus Caesar is "Octavian" it's actually not their original family name, which they had for hundreds of years more, Octavian is a much more recent name, possibly to cover up their last name, which is shocking, which is Rufus, meaning Red, as in redheaded. Not bc they were Gauls but because they were shemites, Augustus ans Julius both legalized judiasm in the main provinces, and gave jews all sorts of privelges, to this day they are recognized as being both pro jewish.
Wyatt Garcia
Reminder
Nathan Young
Ancient greek and latin do not have colour terms. Why are shitters like you trying to act smart and talk stupid wrong shit out of their ass?
Thomas Sanders
Are you gheg or tosk?
Austin King
>The race, look, and ethnicity of the Ancient Roman peoples is of great contention Are you fucking retarded? They were white. "Mediterranian" has only come to suggest shit-skin non-white invaders in about the last fifty years or so. Before that it just meant whites with brown hair and a sun tan from living on the beach.
Xavier Carter
True also Aristotle his own private tutor recorded that he had blond hair, but also his father philip the Great was a pure blooded greek and looked alot like Alexander. His wife looks also just like that statue. Alexander also claimed to be Greek explicitly, I can't remember if his mother was a greek. Philip was allowed to play in the Olypmic Games (which is only for pure blooded greeks)
this is his mother on the right, they have found busts of her in the tomb of Philip the Great ( I think it is his) it has been reconized as being comtemporary to Alexander and it looks jsut like this coin
Samuel Long
Fair colored people always seem to be disproportionate in positions of power throughout history. It's just a universally revered aesthetic quality to have light hair or eyes and that biases in your favor
Thomas Parker
Gheg
James Myers
there is no term for blonde in ancient greek, they did not have colours
jesus how can you be so fucking retarded
Daniel Peterson
I've seem so many posts of people wanting serious, philosophical, historical, or interesting topics on /Pol, instead of just trolling and race-bating.
Congratulations. You're officially part of your problem.
Carson Bennett
The greatest irony is that Frenchmen are still majority descended from Gauls even after all the migrations into their home region. So in reality, Caesar was documenting the first ever historical example of a Frenchman throwing up the white flag.
Grayson Collins
Lanklets will truly never learn.
Sebastian James
I'm not claiming alexander claimed albanian identity or anything of the sort. i'm saying that a phenotype that is entirely absent in greek peoples today still exists in albanians (15-30%). This can mean many things. Kosovo and Albania are smack in the middle of countless imperial crossroads. Also albanian and greek are cousins on the indo european language tree according to ever more accurate research.