Abortion?

Abortion?

Arguments for:

>Bodily Autonomy
>Freedom of not having to follow religious beliefs of others
>Less unwanted kids taking up welfare money
>Legalizing them helps ensure safe and sanitary abortions as opposed to back alley versions
>In the event a woman is raped or has health complications she deserves the ability to take control of the situation

Arguments against:

>Religion
>Morals
>The fetus is a human as of conception and therefore has rights
>Taxpayer dollars potentially funding them

Where do you stand? I believe abortions clinics should be readily available and tax payer funded. The money saved from a one time operation dwarfs the money that would be lost on welfare payments, tax funded healthcare appointments, education... throughout the kids life. Women deserve to have the ability to control their own bodies.

Picture unrelated

Other urls found in this thread:

babycenter.com/fetal-development-week-by-week
duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/L/Life.aspx
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

Abortion violates the NAP.

Which NAP?

Abortion stops other races from reproducing, but it also encourages moral degeneration within our own race.

The welfare argument's a load of shit while western nations keep sending welfare bux to the third world to pay for their kids too

I don't think teens look at sex as "Hey, if I knock you up we can just go and get an abortion". The more we educate teens about safe sex practices, hygiene, and disease, the more capable they will be towards making smart decisions.

Stopping welfare in one sport is better than not stopping it at all.

i have a video of that girl fingering herself in schoolgirl uniform

>I believe abortions clinics should be readily available and tax payer funded.
OK, but, you then say:
The money saved from a one time operation dwarfs the money that would be lost on welfare payments, tax funded healthcare appointments, education... throughout the kids life.
Showing that you're fiscally conservative and that it is indeed a kids life you're trading for a drop in the tax rate.
With that established, wouldn't it make more sense to vote right wing? You still can and support abortion, but, do you? If not, than, is a tax difference (that you won't see) really justification enough to take the kids life?
>Women deserve to have the ability to control their own bodies.
OK, but, is she not consenting to give the male she sleeps w/ control over it to from the very act? I know she isn't legally, but morally?
Also, womans body - my taxes, again, not a justifiable reason.
And you have to realize unavailable doesn't mean fully illegal. If she goes out of state to have it, and then comes back, she won't be charged. So she would have control over her body just not access to a certain service in a certain jurisdiction.
Fun Note: I actually support abortion "rights" but not for any of the reason you give.

The only valid argument against is that it shouldn't be publicly funded. Personally I'm against it but I can't give a shit if someone wants to scramble their shit with their own money. It's when I'm paying 30% of my income on stupid shit like that.

>Mfw having to explain to my unemployed friend that federal tax is only 25% but state tax plus social security (that shit I'm never getting) put my at a third of my income taxed.

Fuck the fed

Teens don't use logic to avoid risks, full stop. Educating them will not help, first off, but the attitude you describe was actually common in my high school. If the girls left school and got married they would be better off nine times out of ten.

>>The fetus is a human as of conception and therefore has rights
This.
It should be an argument strong enough for someone to be against abortion. It's hard for me to understand how people can still agree with abortion knowing there's another human being they kill. Or maybe they don't see it as a human being?
babycenter.com/fetal-development-week-by-week

I'm having a hard time comprehending what you are trying to convey.

Males give up the right to have a legal say in what happens to a fetus as they have zero repercussions, zero hardships, and zero risks involved with the pregnancy and birth. Yes, men may have a vested interest in the outcome but that doesn't trump the predicament the female is in.

You my friend just gave the one argument that single handedly destroys any "pros"
>Our only reason for existence is to secure white children's future
>If you're not white, you still should consider that securing the existence of your own kind is the most important thing

>>>The fetus is a human as of conception and therefore has rights
Nah. Not this. The fetus is not protected by laws because its not a citizen nor does it have a visa therefor the Government can't recognize its rights.

Which leads to the inevitable conclusion that they should be kicked out.

Some people don't see a mish mash of cells which form into a baby as actually being one. Admittedly, it's a gray zone. Is sperm a human, is the egg a human, at the exact moment of conception is it a human, at what point in the pregnancy does it goes from cells to a human, at birth is it a human?

I think most can agree 6+ months into a pregnancy the baby is formed and somewhat functional, aborting at that stage is cruel and unnecessary.

Anti-Abortion
Pro-Sterilization

I watched my son move his arms on an ultrasound screen during his first trimester. Abortion is murder and it's fucking wrong, there is no way to justify it.

I avoided having children until I was good and ready. The real question is, why are other people retarded?

>Males give up the right to have a legal say in what happens
Ahh, wha? They don't have any rights to give up, that's kind of my point, maybe they should. If you disagree thats fine, I think it was my weakest argument of those listed, and think its an interesting tell that thats the one - and only one - you picked to respond too.

A woman having 10 abortions doesn't stop her ability at some point to have 10 kids when she is at a better point in her life to handle that responsibility.

I like how you presented every argument against abortions as being emotional, fatburger. Makes you look real unbiased in the matter.

Here's a proper argument against free-for-all abortions for you - it fucks up the female body. The hormonal changes that happen to a woman when she's pregnant are massive, her entire body effectively gears first towards supplying the fetus with energy and nutrients, meaning the woman changes her body chemistry and the way food is processed, then raising it - meaning the brain chemistry changes, the personality as governed by hormones and brain chemistry changes as well. Interrupting these natural processes causes a massive shock to the organism of a woman - and with it come vastly increased risks of chronic diseases starting, and large numbers of complications from the procedure itself.

No one's having a third trimester abortion retard

>I don't think teens look at sex as "Hey, if I knock you up we can just go and get an abortion".
You are completely wrong about that.

Only a mercy abortion where both fetus and mother lives are at risk should be allowed. Other than that abortions should be outlawed.
Reason: if killing a person is allowed because it inconvenience someone else, then me going on a rampage should be allowed too because I'm bored. You see, abortions and it's supporters are illogical.

Learn to read?

If you're either a nigger, spic or believe in socialism. Cut that baby out. We don't need your scum here anymore.

It does, because each race should have their own ethnostate and keep a perfect competition with each other.
>Only abortion I consider acceptable is in case the mother is endangered by the conception or similar cases, where is better to keep the mother and have her pregnant again, than trying to save a baby that might not make it and would result in the mother's death.

Lol oops

Fetus, at the early stages, is not a human.

The mother shouldn't have to give of herself, to support someone else. No more than I should have to give you my blood if you need a transplant or for someone to give up a kidney (whether dead or alive), to someone needing a transplant.

No Abortion like you stated is kiling a human, and two why should I pay my tax dollars for something that I do not need and or want. It was the woman's choice to not check if there was a condom. and Condoms fail to use birth control pills or something. SO suck it up and don't kill your child.

Arguments for:
>Provides manpower for your nation
Arguments against:
>Some of your population is unhappy

>Or maybe they don't see it as a human being?
They don't. But the leftiests who screech loudest about this crap don't see anyone but themselves as human...

>I believe abortions clinics should be readily available and TAX PAYER FUNDED.

Glad to know my money is going towards the killing of a child, something I don't agree with. I know you don't mind that OP.

It's a person, and if you have an abortion you're killing a person. That's what I believe. You shouldn't have an abortion because it's not right you're not evening giving what could be YOUR child a chance just cause you're selfish and don't want to deal with such big responsibilities (even then adoptions are a thing why kill your own child).

If you're not ready for that responsibility either A. Use a condom (even though there's still a chance) B. Don't have sex.

A human being is from conception. 46 chromosomes equal a person sometimes, in your case, 47 also equal a person

I am a Fascist and a eugenicist and therefore support aborting/sterilizing undesirables. I have no qualms with abortion in this respect

That being said, most people who are so called pro choice are uncomfortable with the idea. If you ask them 'do you feel comfortable with the idea of abortion being someone's only method of birth control' (that is, someone has casual sex and then has an abortion every few months to get rid of unwanted pregnancies) they will say that makes them uneasy. Although they support a woman to make a decision about an abortion, they do so by blocking out their innate belief that the fetus is alive. They will say they don't, but the fact that abortion as a contraceptive makes them uncomfortable betrays their true beliefs

Can I see some evidence to enforce those claims? I do not deny the shock of an abortion on the body can be synonymous to that of a miscarriage but I'd like to think the effects of the abortion outweigh the negatives of being forced to bring a child to term and to deal with the ramifications of that.

Somewhat wobbly definition of human there. Be for abortion but be honest about it.

Dumbass didn't even pass his bio 101 class. 46 chromosomes equals a person. That means a fetus and fertilized egg are human.

Abortion is wrong because

1. It is a form of murder.

2. It hinders population growth of a nation.

3. The consent argument is moot. If reality were based on consent we would all consent to birth.

4. It encourages sexual degeneracy (except in rape however points one through three still apply.)

>The mother shouldn't have to give of herself, to support someone else.
But making abortion illegal in ones state wouldn't force that, so....?

>The jumbled up tax point

Losing wasteful tax spending anywhere can be a positive. the argument is to redistribute the way it is currently spent to save money in the long run. Fetus, at early stages =/= a kid

As it relates to states rights I believe it is a national issue in the sense that we wouldn't allow states to make rape legal as it violates the rights of another person (in the abortion case, the mother)

Their just going to sneak out of class and have sex in the handicapped bathroom anyway.

>Implying he didn't drop out

You can tell OP is either living with his parents or is extremely young

That flag doesn't fit you

>The mother shouldn't have to give of herself, to support someone else
Then she should have opted out of taking the dick

webm?

Does OP not know that the child is literally ripped apart by tongs during abortions?

So its what, A space lizard?

That's completely wrong. Terminating several pregnancies can cause all pregnancies to terminate early on their own. The amount of time for this to occur also usually means the woman is no longer 15-25, when she is at her most fertile. Additionally, children are exposed to less and less testosterone in the womb the more children the mother has had previously. Fertility drops sharply after 30 and all sorts of birth defects begin to increase. Attempting to have unprotected sex with a 35-year-old woman who has had ten abortions can potentially NEVER result in a pregnancy and there is a serious risk of miscarriage and severe mental defects, not to mention the personality problems. You might have a few after this point, but not 10.

In all likelihood, she has also been in several romantic relationships which will make her unable to feel a strong attraction to anyone new, and she will have only ever had short relationships that she is now skilled in ending with no experience in maintaining one long-term. Older parents will also completely fuck any female children since they are most attracted to men in the age group of their father as they were growing up, which in this case would mean late 30s up to 50s.

Using birth control is not a good alternative either because it warps girls' personalities and severely reduces the production of hormones which make other men attracted to them. An average-looking woman would could still be considered extremely attractive when producing her normal smell and showing signs of fertility, while simultaneously finding the average man extremely attractive when she is ovulating. On top of all this it creates the same bad habits of leaving relationships at will and having casual sex, which by 30 will be her only experience and probably make a long-term marriage impossible. She is also far more likely to be exposed to venereal diseases, some of which may not even show visible symptoms and could be given to the children.

Fetus, at early stages, is not a child nor it is a viable human.

The female body is equipped specifically for dealing with the ramifications of bringing a child to term. Honestly, asking me to provide evidence that the female body changes during the prgnancy and after it for the purposes of raising a child is essentially the same as asking me to find you an equivalent biology textbook as the one I had in 6th grade.
You mention miscarriages - I assume that means you're familiar with the concept of unhealthy pregnancy termination then. A miscarriage is essentially the woman's body terminating the pregnancy because it isn't capable - or thinks it isn't capable due to a hormonal imbalance - or carrying the fetus all the way through to the end. Going in there, chopping the fetus up and then clawing the pieces out is even worse in the case that the body is healthy and ready for the pregnancy.

Bullshit. If you kill a pregnant lady, you can be charged with two murder cases.

Gas
The
((()))'s

>Shows an image of a third term abortion
>Implying it matters how gruesome the operation appears

> Contributes to death of white race
> Reduces the number of potential tax payers and population, thus affecting the sustainability of a nation's economy
> Reduces the number of replenishable numbers for a nation's military

Abortion weakens countries, especially first world ones. You essentially only looked at least religious/non-religious meme. Think harder next time.

Ignore them they're all fucking kids, remember it's summer...

Yes thats true. And if I was charged w/ that, I'd take it to SCOTUS and have one of the charges dropped because its unconstitutional.
The same power that grants SCOTUS or POTUS or The House or The Senate rule over the pop. also states that it can only recognize rights through citizenship, visa, or alien status as in illegals or war combatants.

I think you are making a good case for sex ed being a waste of time. You clearly didn't pay attention or learn anything other than new positions and gender identities. What do you think a pregnancy is? Honestly, what the fuck.

The definition becomes yet more wobbly! 'Viable'? What has 'viability' got to do with humanity?

Evidence? I wanna know where you're getting this from.

Also loved how you skipped over some of my points just to group me in with other people: My money is going towards something I don't agree with & If you're not ready for the responsibility A. Use a condom (Not 100%) B. Don't have sex

You will never find an animal that kills his own baby and even if it happens is a very serious reason (probably the baby is too slow or weak) and not some "gotta fill my holes" reason

How about a compromise, you are only allowed one abortion in your life.

OP is a faggot

We must minimise our kinship with our own lower class.
If construction worker Jimbo has 5 kids it is no different than those of all those minorities you seem to despise on here.

Racism was never the answer, it is simply wrong, classicism is. True, Africans, arabs, Indians and so do not have a developed middle and higher class as we do, but it still exists. Baathi Arab states always had a decent secular elite for one. Imperial Iran had also a decent elite.
I for one would prefer Bashar to move in next door to me rather than some dimwit who happens to be white.

Racism is a go to ideology for the inferiors among whites. Those who try to hide their own uselessness behind someone else.

If we look at the migrant flood, it is truly a class issue, as it is the lower class which floods us.
When the Iranian migrant flood happened in 1979 it were mainly royalists, socialists and secularists of the higher and middle cadre fleeing. Today, you can see these people complain along with us about this migrant flood.

But I degress.
Abortion must be legal at all times. All those who fear whoredom, it would just make them do it illegal and under the radar. Bosnia and Herzegovina has still post communist total legality laws for it, and has like 2-3% abortions out of total births, while in communist times it had somewhere around 50% like Russia today. Abortion laws do not make the difference, society creates "whores".

Making abortion legal leads to these things:
>proper couples being forced to birth things with genetic disorders
>those whores you despise will become mothers
>minors would be parents
>there would be more orphans (as if adoption was popular even now)
>rapechildren
Etc

Who in their right mind can cry out that "a man and a man ain't parents" but think that a girl and her rapist are?

Nowhere did I dismiss the fact the pregnancies have an affect on mothers, the question is what negative effects do abortions and miscarriages have on the mother and are those effects manageable. What I'm hearing is that abortions could easily kill a mother and it is a dangerous operation to undertake.

You can't be this dumb. Animals eat their own children all the time. Lions and rats in particular.

>tax payers

Abortions mainly happen (as far as whites are concerned) to:
>genetically faulty fetuses
>rape cases
And most of all to
>"I don't work I am a princess" or "I am my own boss" gutter trash

In most of these cases you don't get tax payers, but welfare addicts.
In the time of automatization, this gets worse. Tesla predicted this stuff.

Rape babies should be aborted
And if you are too careless having sex, shouldn't be having it in the first place

Doesn't work, it reduce poverty based reproduction, however the poor are still the reproductive power house in this economy, rich fags don't have as any children because of their IQ and wanting social economic autonomy.

>the poor are incentivized to have bastards as a retirement plan
>middle class higher IQ breed less the the degenerates and the wealth castes even less

Things don't quite work out the way their supposed too in reality, though abortion and birth control have worked to somewhat suppress the reproduction of the low IQ

I should have specified I am sorry in the vast majority of cases in the natural world is the mother and only the mother who takes care of the childrens while yes the males try to eat them to feed themselves or eliminate competition.

I am for it in the way Margie Sanger was for it.

Eugenics. Let the browns skins murder their future societal drains and maybe whites won't be as easy to genocide

Taxpayer money isn't funding abortion per the Hyde Amendment. Even if it was, though, this isn't a distinct argument against abortion, unless you argue that your taxes shouldn't fund something you disagree with. Obviously this is an incredibly weak argument as tax dollars fund wars/military growth, internet surveillance, domestic policies like the war on drugs, etc.

As a marxist, I've come to see abortion as a tool of the progressive capitalist elite to wage class and race war against the proletariat.

Destroy the family, destroy the community, destroy a sense of comradeship and you have a group of easily manipulated and pliable sheep who are left to stew in their own squalor and delinquincy rather than strong, healthy, capable and productive workers

The family is the backbone of any state, people or community. If their goal is to create a system where their pan global corporatism runs free, than it will be to destroy the family of the proletariat, allow for promiscuity and devalue the inherent dignity of the worker.

Arguing over the point it becomes human is meaningless. It doesn't matter where you draw the line because any fetus will inevitably pass it over time. Abortions do tremendous psychological and physical damage to a woman, who in reality would be much healthier if allowed to give birth and would likely refuse to give up the child as well. The women grow to regret it over time anyway because it becomes increasingly obvious that they would have had a baby and that they would have loved it. The supposed short-term benefits always feel extremely stupid in retrospect because it was going to become a child until they intervened.

There is no logic in trying to define it by the form it takes for a moment in time, rather than looking it what it was and would be with a few weeks' difference. Everyone involved in the process acknowledges this. This argument only seems to make sense in abstract, where the past and future don't exist and you can take everything out of context. If you were making a decision about your own life or solving a problem you'd obviously be thinking about the passage of time and what things will look like weeks, months, or years down the line.

How you can play video games with this mindset (save time, prepare for the future, predict what your choices will mean later, get the ending you want) and then play dumb about real life problem-solving is a unbelievable. Your naivety is staggering. I bet you've spent more time thinking about how a fictional character could have done things differently than this issue.

A fetus is a human being because it is going to become one if left alone. You think chickens like it when you take their eggs? Even they know to protect their eggs because it represents a chicken in the making. It does not have to hatch to become a chicken. Females in general are protected because they represent potential future babies, and there is not even a fetus involved most of the time.

NO SHIT!, and workers of the world, save up, and earn the means of production, and put lazy fat cats Frederic Engels and Marx, out of business, of their exploitation of Engels's fathers factory workers.

I am of the opinion that it should be legal before the heart starts beating, usually around the first 5-7 weeks, or if the mothers life is in danger. At what point does an organization of cells constitute a human? At conception i dont agree with, but aborting a baby with developed organs, a functioning brain, and nervous system is fucked up. I dont believe that a mother should be mandated to carry a rape baby to delivery. I dont know how i feel about funding an abortion clinic for women who change their minds, i hate the notion but a kid doesnt deserve to grow up in a shitty single parent home or foster care. A shitty person costs society a lot more than an abortion, but then you verge on eugenics. But is eugenics inherently wrong? Humanity is the only species that preserves the invalid to the detriment of the capable.

I havent decided on a lot of this shit.

>literally not the roasty's body
>"MUH BODY"

All the heart does is pump blood.

The women should do with her body what she wants argument is stupid. Women have control over their body,
You want to get tattoo? Go ahead
You want piercing? Go ahead
the problem comes when you want to decide on others persons body

>has all the genes of a human
>"it's not a human because if it were I would have to rethink my policy"
really activates the almonds

>Mash of cells
>other person's body

I am in favor of abortion because it prevents welfare leeches. But I think sterilization should be mandatory for any women who gets an abortion for reasons other then health or to prevent a potato baby.

End all gibsmedats. If you want an abortion pay for it yourself. If you want to have a kid, pay for it yourself. Problem solved.

>genetically distinct
>yet somehow not another person
???

Fuck you

Don't wilingly abandon your seed in another person.

And all the brain does is fire neurons. You have to draw a line somewhere, and i think thats better than a zygote or an 8 month late term abortion.

>someone murders your unborn child.
>zero repercussions.

Who is that Benis holster?

And a retard can lack chromosomes. Does that mean it's not human if it doesnt have all the genes?

>Equating having a willful medical procedure to having someone do something to your body unwillingly

You seem like a real scum bag. The kind that has been raised by jew TV to believe that nobody should take responsibility for their actions and that a child is just a burden to being able to drink and spend money frivolously. The fact that you say a woman shouldn't have to give of herself to support someone, as if her child is just some random bum, says so much about the kind of person you are. You are a loathsome human being (and you even equate it to you giving blood to a stranger--what kind of monster are you?). Ironically, I would support your mother's right to abort you right now.

First of all. The legal basis FOR abortion is based on the BIBLE, so it is religious. How?

The legal definition of WHEN begins Human life states that human life begins with the "first breath" so after the baby leaves vagina, and takes the first breath. The FIRST BREATH is based on the Bible dogma of the Breath of Life.

duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/L/Life.aspx

Genesis 2:7

Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

The definition of when human life begins is lacking, and based on old and outdated knowledge. This outdated definition of human life, is the main cause why abortion is not considered a homicide. In order to stop abortion, we must update the definition of when does human life begin. And all we need is base the legal definition on modern day science to define it. Because the current definition is just based on religious dogma.

It is ironic, that abortionists are against religious dogma, but completely ignore the fact, that abortion is legally possible because its based on religious dogma.

>Pushing your morality on me and others
>Not letting others live the way they choose
>Your unique way of seeing things is how all others should live their lives.

>What is contraception?

A severed finger is now a person? How about a flake of skin?
A functioning brain is what makes a human, a blastocyst or embryo doesn't have one. Incidentally a late term fetus does and aborting one can reasonably be described as ending a life (all that changes at birth is plumbing).

People should use birth control or give their kid up for adoption if they don't want them. Irresponsibility shouldn't have a get out of jail free card.

Contraception is a means of preventing pregnancy during sexual intercourse. The means are not 100% successful nor are they 100% readily available.

giving up the child for adoption doesn't stop the mother from being forced to carry the child to term and give birth.