Minimum Wage and Automation

Should it be raised? Abolished? State by state?

Will it hasten automation? Will low skill workers have 0 opportunities in a couple of decades?

archive.is/mex5f

Other urls found in this thread:

seattletimes.com/opinion/uw-minimum-wage-study-doesnt-reflect-reality-of-work-in-seattle/
indeed.com/jobs?q=&l=seattle
youtube.com/watch?v=UbzEHd49bpk
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>Should it be raised?
Probably not.

>Abolished?
Definitely not.

>State by state?
Absolutely yes.

>Will it hasten automation?
That will develop independently of minimum wage issues.

>Will low skill workers have 0 opportunities in a couple of decades?
They will have increasingly fewer opportunities, but I think 0 within 20 years is a bit ambitious of an estimate..

It's economics. It will have positive and negative consequences.
>Positive
More purchasing power will grow the economy
People will use less on public programs like welfare (look up the welfare loop WalMart has created
Poverty is postively correlated with crime so less poverty will reduce crime
>Negatives
Higher unemployment rate
Higher investment in automation (which is happening regardless)
Lower corporate profits

I personally agree with pegging the minimum wage with inflation but there are good and bad things about it

Not even state by state, but city by city even. Live in urban NC a $725 minimum is not enough to support even one person in the city. Lived in rural NC 4 yrs ago and it was definitely feasible.

>>Should it be raised?
>Probably not
Why though? Don't most economists agree that it should be increased?

>725
oops. 7.25

Theres no point addressig the minimum wage issue until we tackle illegal immigration destroying the value of labor.

the minimum wage shouldn't be forcibly raised... it actually hurts many low income workers.... supply and demand curves anons... also, if u really want to raise it, get rid of the illegals. Don't give me the shit that they do jobs no one else wants to do... starve a man enough and he will do any shit for food

>raise it to 15/hr
>companies fire people + speed up automation
>leftists think this is a good idea
Fucking retards.
The technocrats are pushing this just as an excuse to automate faster. Look at what Soros is doing.

Why can't the two issues can both be worked on simultaneously?

What's the name of that tranny?

For research purposes.

Learn a skill/trade that cannot be replaced , union electrofag here 45$ a hour plus bennies

Unions are what are really killing us. You're all over-paid self-righteous assholes who think 16 weeks of school should qualify you to make the same wages as a fucking doctor

Because it has been years and we haven't fixed either of them and half of Americans (the left) think we can raise the minimum wage without addressing illegal immigration. Moreover, addressing the illegal immigration issue would help make solving the minimum wage issue easier because it's one of the biggest reasons labor is so devalued as it is.

As a machine operator, let me tell you something about robots. They're fucking retarded. Every part that moves through the operations to get cut and burned a certain way is picked up by a robot when the part hits the sensor. If a sensor is fucked up, the robot won't pick it up, which causes the line to back up and fuck with other robots and machines. Speaking of machines, they need constant maintenence. New coils for induction hardening, new inserts to cut metal parts when they wear out, oil, changed over to run new parts, and offsets need to be made to keep the part sizes within tolerance. Chips get built up inside the machines, which wil cause the robot to not set the parts down correctly and cause them to crash. Machining jobs are not going anywhere anytime soon because of automation. If anything, it's bringing in more jobs to counter the fuck ups.

oh noes their unemployment rate might fall to 3% as well

>already know raising minimum wage was a disaster for workers in Seattle
>still doing it
lol liberals

#1 your a moron #2 i did 5 years of scool/ apprenticeship #3 im building America while u flip burgers

it's true, unions are a scam, but u mad bro

You don't need a genius robot to roll over to a table to deliver burgers. My fucking lawnmower mows my lawn and parks itself without me doing a damn thing.

Wait, it takes 5 years to become an electrician?

Corporate shills think low unemployment, high wages and a booming economy are a bad thing. No wonder all those rural shitholes are dying. Seattle is booming.


I can't imagine how much of a retard you have to be to think that 2.5% unemployment is bad. Wow. Or maybe just a corporate shill.

seattletimes.com/opinion/uw-minimum-wage-study-doesnt-reflect-reality-of-work-in-seattle/

indeed.com/jobs?q=&l=seattle

>Poverty is postively correlated with crime so less poverty will reduce crime
hmmmm, about that, there might be some other factors involved

Union electricians 5 years apprenticeship , unlike non union scabs that fuck everything up and we come in and fix their shit work

Interesting. What do you make yearly?

I think the minimum wage should be $30/hour

The overall work ethic of unions speaks against you. We avoid Union labor at all costs on jobs. You're over priced, you work slow, take too many breaks, and do shit work.

I've worked with tons of unions, have had a poor experience with all of them

t. Power Boiler Construction Manager

So is the 12 dollars for all ages? That's quite a lot for a 16 year old.
This is how we do it

me too, i think the minimum wage should be so high it forces people to completely overhaul their business model

It raises the question of what will we do for income once automation fully takes over? For example when we have machines that can plaster and decorate walls and build homes, or machines that can run a distribution warehouse or a factory? What then? Medbots and surgery bots and police bots and shit like that?

...

100-200k depending on how much ot and traveling i wanna do , and right now in the US there is more work than ive ever seen .. GO TRUMP

Thanks Obama

>200k

My ass. Maybe if you do 80 hours a week all year.

This is going to end up turning LA into a shithole lol

Wonderful,

15 min paid break 30 min unpaid , and im worth my rate scab

Too bad the fucking Germans and Austrians have us thoroughly beaten when it comes to machining very specialized precision parts. I work with high end scientific equipment (facility cost rightly 1 billion dollars) and I cannot think of a single thing I use at work that isn't made in Germany or Austria except for a steel step ladder from the 70s that was made in Pittsburgh. Why is this the case?

The lower classes undergo demographic collapse, the uppers live better lives than ever, advancing us as a species. Evolution doesn't happen without leaving someone behind

Learn how to use the term scab. I'm not general labor retard nor am I direct competition for general union labor.

You larping as someone with a job?

some jobs give u 100$ a day per diem...

Not controlled for population density and probably a host of other variables. Fake news.

sorry i meant RAT

abolished
having a minimum wage implies there is no work thats worth less than that, and it also patronizes literally everybody by outlawing a grown adults decision to sign up for a low pay job whatever his reason for doing so is

The goal is full automation of all manual labor and we'll all be able to do what we want all the time. In reality,we'll all live in a technocratic hellhole .
>driverless cars track you everywhere
>constant surveillance state
>no means to defend yourself
>everyone concentrated in cities
>400 sq ft coffin "homes" for everyone
>control the schools
>control the media
This is all planned out in Agenda 21-type papers.
Ever wonder why all the cities are leftwing?

No more Fed, no more fiat dollar, no more immigrants.

Then a minimum wage isn't necessary and everyone will do fine.

The biggest problem is importation of labor and goods. Otherwise increasing the minimum wage, up until a certain point, should be a net benefit.

P.S please try to ignore Obamaleaf, he showed up in this thread and the special ed student will keep showing up until you stop paying so much attention to his retardation. Look, but don't comment.

Ya thanks for all those part-time jobs lmao!! You really have no clue..

but isnt the alternative techno-utopia possible instead?

If you're living out of your car but travelling and you need a place to sleep.
You might make 200k but you're living 2 lives.
Waste of time.

It is, but you're fake news

Obama job creation was 95% full time. You morons should try actually pulling up the jobs data rather than falling for fake news headlines from ZeroBrain, Infotards and investors.com

>same wages as a fucking doctor

Get a load of this retard.

Much better.

The per diem more than covers living expenses when traveling, and most jobs today worth a shit make u travel.. the economy is changing u cant stay put forever get used to it

The sooner we automate away all liberal jobs, the better.

Don't forget the increasingly devalued dollar. Minimum wage increases are temporary band-aids when the dollar is becoming worthless.

lmao what the fuck is considered a "liberal job"? Is anything that starts off at the bottom a liberal job to you? There are a ton of skill-based and manual labor jobs that start off near or at the bottom, minimum wage is the floor that is supposed prevents employers from exploiting and underpaying workers.

>Lower corporate profits
This statement pisses me off (not you, don't worry) because corporations don't need insane levels of profit. Yes a business has a right to do as well as it can WITHIN REASON. But they managed to worm their way into the idea that if they are stymied one iota in making a profit, that it's communism and the worst thing since the Holocaust. They have so much control, though, that they get to hike prices and fuck over the whole system just so they can maintain those profits that benefit absolutely no one else.

Unionized workers themselves aren't a big issue, because at lease they aren't useless eaters. The union bosses and such however have become nothing but useless eaters, that no longer even do much in terms o protecting workers, and the wage increases are often dwarfed by the union fees, they're hardly more than additional bureaucrats handing out more useless "official" approved stamps and getting a shittone of money for it, which in the end comes out of the laborer's pockets.

NY, San Fran and I think Boston are close to $50/hr.
Anywhere else and you're making ~$30-35/hr.
Prove me wrong.

northern VA 45$ a hour plus bennies

Don't you love it when jews get called out on their hypocrisy?
>white nationalism is evil!!!! we need a brown horde to wipe out whiteness
>ya! and we need to end jewish supremacy ,too!!
>WOAH,WOAH ,WOAH THAT'S DIFFERENT!
Country for me ,but not for thee! Leftists are a disease.

>what the fuck is considered a "liberal job"?
Bar tenders, waiters, cashiers, etc etc.
You know, shitty easy jobs that will be the first to be automated away. The jobs most liberals flock to when going to college for their degree in womyn studies. The jobs liberals are whining don't pay enough when they're not supposed to in the first place.

As a spark? Which Local?

Do you have autism?

>raise min wage
>deport all the illegals

this would be a nice double whammy, Trump needs to focus ICE on California

Because when Pittsburgh focused on steel until the 80s, there was no better steel in the world. China imported millions and millions of tons of steel from that town.

I think it should be raised.

Minimum wage use to be pegged at roughly 80% of the GDP per capita. It rose with inflation accordingly. Then it stopped. Minimum wage use to be a living wage - you weren't living in total comfort, but you could still live (meaning able to afford to recreate, own a home, car, etc). Now you can barely afford a shitty apartment on minimum wage working 40hrs/week - and most minimum wage earners are lucky to get anywhere NEAR 40hrs. Any car these people own is going to be a piece of shit. Health insurance is not an option (see: full-time vs. part-time), so medical expenses come out of pocket and are full price.

26

>lmao what the fuck is considered a "liberal job"?

See pic.

This, I have worked for a union and while the people on the field work their asses off, people on the corporate side rarely do anything and are simply there to fill a role that does nothing.

After working 10ish years or so we make about $50/hr, but you have to remember that work isn't always constant with jobs, especially if you're into labor.

I think your image of what qualifies as a "liberal job" is ridiculously skewed. Pretty much all of my friends out of high school started out bussing tables or some menial line of work to start their working life, no one stays in a position like that for longer than a year or two at most. If people want to be retarded and burn their post-years of schooling on something they could learn in their free time then let them waste their money, but don't go shutting the door on young kids looking for an entry-level job that helps pay for school

>If anything, it's bringing in more jobs to counter the fuck ups.

Except we are already in a phase where we don't require everyones labour to produce food and energy for everyone

US hasn't had had this low employment participation rate since the fucking 1970's

My country has over 30% unemployment in adults, and thats only counting the whites!

You're in a fucking fantasy land

What is this chart meant to portray? There's no source on it and all it has is an arbitrary "Trump Clinton" line with wages and dates.

>Lower corporate profits
Higher corporate profits because little business will put out of profit. They pretend they're helping the man, but instead they're stopping him from achieving the American dream. They're kicking away the ladder.

Maybe you should spend less time here and find a higher paying job? We here are people working on automation you know...

Cove Point?

You will work for peanuts, goyim, or we'll get some spick to do it! :v)

I fucked up:
>Higher corporate profits because little business will put out of business. This leads to a more monopolistic economy, which means more money for the big corporations. They pretend they're helping the little man, but instead they're stopping him from achieving the American dream. They're kicking away the ladder.

It should be raised to $20, we should make business so mad that they implement automation as fast as possible.

nope that job blows everyone is quitting it

It's a sunday and I make enough to support a family of 3 and pay my mortgage on time. If you want to opt out of explaining yourself then I guess that explains enough for me.

Abolished.

Wages cannot logically be more than the utility of the labor. To increase the actual value of wages, you either need to reduce the amount of wage-labor available, or you need to increase the utility provided by wage laborers.

So, no matter how you raise the minimum wage, the actual number becomes arbitrary as businesses will adjust to this wage floor while the value of wages remains stagnant.

>But I want to increase the value of wages using the big dick of the government!
Then legally limit the amount of hours one worker can work in a week, raise the minimum working age, lower the retirement age, and restriction immigration for low end labor.

>I want to raise the value of wages without using the big dick of the government!
Then encourage family values that will drag women and the elderly out of the work force and life-work balances that will make workers unwilling to work more hours.

>Minimum wage
Minimum wage shouldn't exist, the markets should decide how much a given employee is worth.
>inb4 "muh living wage"
No one is entitled to anything, those who do not have skills valuable enough to keep themselves fed and sheltered should either get better skills or be left to rot; this also applies to automation, get a skill that is hard to automate.

What I heard.
Something else going on over there, government job, I keep thinking stadium but I'm wrong.

It will help people to live if they don't have a job?

How about asking what makes wages go up? After that ask why they are not going up now. Then we can stop chasing our tail and actually make sense of the situation.

This + all the unseen jobs that never got created because small businesses couldn't start or couldn't hire more people.

nope power house , contractor being a asshole so fuck em

>I personally agree with pegging the minimum wage with inflation but there are good and bad things about it
I fundamentally disagree with minimum wage, but this is would be the only realistic way to go about it.

Most actually don't. A slight raise in cost of living would be fine over inflation but this is not the same and results in business closure.

Not Kiewitt.

And this is why we need to cut welfare as well. We will destroy your kind.

hmm maybe been working ot so long havent been keepin up , maybe a nuke?

GEMMED

Idfk anymore. Working sucks.
Any job I've been on, sparkys are always working overtime, like the entire job, because they're always weeks behind.

no we are the best/smartest trade , good luck digging holes and cleaning up after me KEK

>digging holes and cleaning up after me

Sheeit, you plug in my pumps.

You work where i Sheeit

NAFTA is the problem: youtube.com/watch?v=UbzEHd49bpk

I've said it a few times on here but people don't want to listen. A wall isn't even needed once you get rid of the treaty so it doesn't make sense to do both.

Have we all just forgotten about these trade agreements? I haven't heard people talk about them at all.

How do you get into being an electrician? Do you have to join a union and suck a dick to get an apprenticeship?

join a union gets u in , sucking dick makes u a foreman