Explain yourself, ancaps

Explain yourself, ancaps

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom
newrepublic.com/article/116799/egypt-does-not-need-pinochet
democracynow.org/2013/9/10/40_years_after_chiles_9_11
bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-14584095
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile#1950s_and_1960s
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet#U.S._backing_of_the_coup
cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/chile/
reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1m6d5h/wednesday_week_in_history_sept_11_sept_17/cc6ga2j/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Most of those are false.
Kill yourself commie.

>most of those are false

Let's hear the truth then friend

>maybe if I say it's false, it actually will be

Ummm free helicopter rides, sweetie.
Check. Mate.

>And now has a cult of illiterate keyboard warriors who worship him
Hmmmmmmmmmm

>Leftypol trying to make their home here again
just fuck off, you'll never change the mindset of this board

All we've seen is a meme made by an 85 IQ retard. You've shown as much proof as pic related.

Underrated

>asking to be spoonfed
You can find all this on pinochet by various wiki articles and then go to their primary sources linked in the references. There's a dense and super informative thread on the Ron Paul forums discussing pinochet that people came to his defense, but then got handled by people who showed what actually happened

Pinochet hated communism because the US paid him to and supported him to power

you can't fucking call a post "underrated" if it's been around for 2 minutes

>spoonfed
It's not my responsibility to make OP's argument for him. I'm indifferent to the whole discussion, but you can't just make a claim and say "I'm right, google it" or there would be no point in this board even existing.

Explain this

Great argument you got there mi general

Chile has been a social democratic country ever since Pinogay fucked off, lolbergtardians BTFO yet again

What is this? Ancap actually works?!

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

Uhhh sweetie?

>People not from Chile telling a Chilean what to think about Chile
CLASSIC

Canada is higher than Chile in that list.

Guessing Canada is AnCap then fucktard?

>Chile
>Ancap

Doesn't get much more retarded than this folks

...

>Allende was helping the econo-

>Illiterate
>Keyboard warriors
Think before you post

What an uninformed cuck

>benefit of falling inflation and an increase in GDP over the suffering of others in poverty
Also
>dude innocent people dying and being held captive lmao

> darks spirit
> glows In the night
Heh

>>dude innocent people dying and being held captive lmao

Fidel Castro, communist hero who saved Cuba
>Estimated Death toll during revolution
>~70,000

>Cuban Population 1965
>~8,000,000

Pinochet, evil facist CIA plant who ruined everything forever
>Estimated Death toll during Junta
>~3,000

>Chilean Population 1975
>~10,500,000

Hmmm

Also
>fedora meme in 2017
Extra dank one dude! Have you seen le Doge! Such wow!

Idk about you butbthe argument "it's ok cuz he did it too, mom" stopped being a valid one in my household around age six

Left out of this picture: deliberate economic sabotage both by the US and by the national bourgeoisie, the mass murder, rape (including by specially tained animals) and torture of tens of thousands of ordinary people.
The idea of economic competency of Pinochet vs incompetency of Allende is also bogus:
newrepublic.com/article/116799/egypt-does-not-need-pinochet

...

Duts should adopt his policy. Every bastard politician gets to tour in the helicopter.

>A classless society is possible
>Class divisions just become more extreme after the "revolution"

>Commies
>Innocent people

What do you want us to explain when we disagree on your premise?

>Mom, I'm expropriating everything, ruining everyone, and for some unknown reason people are sabotaging me!

...

>it's ok cuz he did it too, mom
That's not the point at all. I was more talking to the double standard that exists. Pinochet killed innocent people, and is rightly hated for it.

Castro on the other hand is a hero to young socialists despite having a body count 20 times higher in a country that's smaller.

Pinochet being the left's south American boogieman never really made much sense to me. For starters, the economy actually improved during his regime after Allende dug a pretty deep hole trying to create a marxist Utopia
>but muh CIA
Please. The Bourgeoise and CIA are just /leftpol/'s version of "the jews". Given that every time marxists try to collectivize the economy it crashes, I'm pretty sure its marxism doing the crashing not the international je- i mean Capitalize conspiracy. After all the Soviets managed to run things so bad that millions of people starved before the CIA was even an organization. Do you really expect me to believe that the organization that was trying to use cigar bombs and assassin sharks was also smart enough to trick every communist country into crashing their own economies?

We've already established that Pinochet's bodycount was far lower than other South American dictators.

And then there's the part where he democratically resigned from being military dictator, which basically never happens, left or right.

As far as military dictators goes Pinochet's list of crimes is fairly short.

this would be true if there weren't millions of shitskins willing to work for pennies

>let me tell you about your country
>btw my country was never communist
EVERY
FUCKING
TIME

democracynow.org/2013/9/10/40_years_after_chiles_9_11

bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-14584095

Except the VIA has been found to be doing virtually all of the things accused of them in South America. See Phillip Agee's book "CIA diary" or Legacy of Ashes

>democratically resigned
Oh man...

>dude let's replace all jobs with automata and then see what happens when young men are deprived of meaningful work or wages lmao
Hint: disorder and violence

>what is the difference between a priori and a posteriori knowledge

>Left out of this picture: deliberate economic sabotage both by the US and by the national bourgeoisie
Jesus, here's a cuck who actually believes in "bourgeois sabotage", lmfao.

>let me tell you about your country
lmao

Maybe cuz it actually happened?
Here you go, brainlet: democracynow.org/2013/9/10/40_years_after_chiles_9_11

>dude innocent people dying and being held captive lmao
are we talking about communism here or what

>dude if you're not a woman your thoughts on womanhood are invalid lmao
>dude if you're not black don't comment on black culture lmao
Nice one

Lmaoing at your life, linking to shitty marxist websites. If you continue shitposting I'll have to disconnect the internet from your cuckshed.

imagine being so retarded that you don't know the difference between primary and secondary sources
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_intervention_in_Chile#1950s_and_1960s

Woah comrade, that's some major wrong-think you're having there. You don't want the local commissar to hear about it.

How exactly did the CIA trick the nationalized industries into running themselves into the ground?

Do you have a video of Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn explaining it for us?

>

On 11 September 1973, the Chilean coup d'état left democratically elected socialist President Salvador Allende dead, a military junta headed by General Augusto Pinochet in power, and thousands of Allende supporters, including famed nueva canción singer Víctor Jara, rounded up, tortured, and murdered.

The coup was a long time in the coming, and was orchestrated by the Chilean right, the CIA, the U.S. Department of State, and various multinational corporations, including copper mining companies like Anaconda, Kennecott, and Cerro Grande, and, perhaps most significantly, the ITT Corporation, a communications giant. The ITT Corporation cut Henry Kissinger a blank check, to be used to destabilize Allende, though it's unknown how much Kissinger took from them.

Salvador Allende had stood for election several times before his victory in 1970, and was President of the Senate at the time of his election to the presidency. Allende headed the leftist Unidad Popular coalition. The two other political groups of note were the National Party and the Christian Democrats. Immediately after Allende's election, the CIA attempted a two-pronged plan to block him from assuming power. Phase I entailed bribing and threatening Chilean congressmen to get them to block Allende's election, while Phase II entailed CIA agents impersonating Department of Defense officials and threatening the Chilean military with a complete cutting-off of aid if they didn't violently stop Allende. Both plans failed, and Allende assumed office as planned.

Salvador Allende's presidency was characterized by the nationalization of key industries, the collectivization of factories directly by workers, the expansion of labor rights, and the building of programs meant to radically decrease poverty and inequality. It was also characterized by a series of economic crises, provoked by U.S. President Nixon's program of trying to make the Chilean economy "scream" and an opposition trucker strike (funded by the ITT Corporation and the CIA). As Allende ran into more and more roadblocks, workers began collectivizing factories themselves. As the military acted independently, it went around harassing and repressing these factory workers.


The serious economic crises were meant to disillusion the Chilean people with Salvador Allende and the UP. However, the 1973 parliamentary elections showed a marked increase for the UP, from Allende's 36.63% of the Presidential vote in 1970 (in a three-way race) to 43.7% of the vote in the Chamber of Deputies, to the 29.2% of the Christian Democrats and the 21.7% of the National Party. The UP, as a coalition, consisted of several parties, most significantly the Socialist Party and Communist Party, under Allende's banner. The U.S. Department of State saw this as critical, warning that the UP would likely win the next presidential election as well; evidence that Allende needed to be stopped immediately.

When the coup came, on 11 September 1973, the Chilean military began to shell the Presidential Palace. Allende was called upon to surrender, but he refused to do so. He ordered others to leave, and then gave his final speech, under fire, in which he remained defiant.

His now famous ending, "Long live Chile! Long live the people! Long live the workers!" was the last the people would ever hear from their President. Allende was killed by a shot to the head in controversial circumstances. The official account (of the coup perpetrators) was that he shot himself in the head with an AK-47 he had been given by Fidel Castro. Many dispute this, saying that he was murdered, but the position of the current government of Chile is that he shot himself. In either case, he can be said to have been killed by the coup, I would say, as if he killed himself, it was only to avoid torture and murder at the hands of the military.

The coup enjoyed the support of the leaders of the National Party and the Christian Democrats, as well as their delegates and senators, though it was certainly not within any representative's electoral mandate to overthrow the democratically elected president. The coup, from its first moments, was accompanied by rounding up Allende supporters. Many were taken to the National Stadium, as well as other football stadiums and various military institutions, where they were imprisoned, beaten, tortured, and murdered in their thousands. Among these was Víctor Jara, Chile's most famous musician and noted Allende supporter, who sang for his fellow prisoners, even after his hands were broken, until he was tortured to death. What followed was a regime of complete repression of all socialists, communists, and other dissidents. Despite the initial support of the coup by the political elite, Pinochet dissolved the political parties and ruled as dictator.

Pinochet was eventually removed from office by national plebiscite, and a few years later ceased to be the head of the military. He took shelter in Britain, which protected him from international prosecution for crimes against humanity. While electoral democracy has returned to Chile, the scars certainly remain for many people, including PTSD for survivors of the torture and those who lived in fear of it every day for years. Much of the legacy of the coup remains unresolved, and the Chilean government prefers not to speak of it. The victory of the coup and dictatorship can be seen in the fact that the socialist movement in Chile was effectively destroyed, and remains smaller and in more disarray today, after so many years of repression.

Suggested Reading

Harmer, Tanya. Allende’s Chile & the Inter-American Cold War. Chapel Hill: The University of North Carolina Press, 2011.

Qureshi, Lubna. Nixon, Kissinger, and Allende: U.S. Involvement in the 1973 Coup in Chile. Lanham: Lexington Books, 2009.

National Security Archive - Documents (Hit "Latin America")

The Kissinger Cables (Search "Chile", "Allende", or "Pinochet")

>As for how the United States was involved, it's important to look at both the roles of the political and economic elite in the U.S., and how they came together to destabilize Allende and contribute to his overthrow.

The CIA began its efforts to precipitate a military coup in 1970, and attempted to force an overthrow of Allende several times. Under Richard Nixon and Nobel Peace Prize winner Henry Kissinger, the State Department made the overthrow of Allende a top priority. The most basic elements of plan were to destabilize Chile's economy and to encourage a military coup.

Meanwhile, Anaconda, Kennecott, and Cerro Grande, multinational copper mining companies who found the "Chileanization" of the copper industry completed under Allende (now without compensation, as restitution for what were calculated as "excess profits" by the Chilean state) began talks with the State Department and funded the opposition. The ITT Corporation, which controlled the telephone industry centered in Santiago, feared nationalization because it was well into the territory of "excess profits" as seen by Allende and refused to service the poor and working class neighborhoods in Santiago, because they wouldn't be profitable enough. The ITT Corporation therefore spent millions of dollars funding the National Party, the conservative press, and opposition strikes, as well as giving Henry Kissinger a blank check to be used in destabilizing Allende.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet#U.S._backing_of_the_coup

>Peter Winn, who writes that the role of the CIA was crucial to the consolidation of power after the coup; the CIA helped fabricate a conspiracy against the Allende government, which Pinochet was then portrayed as preventing. He stated that the coup itself was possible only through a three-year covert operation mounted by the United States. He also points out that the US imposed an "invisible blockade" that was designed to disrupt the economy under Allende, and contributed to the destabilization of the regime.[5] Author Peter Kornbluh argues in his book The Pinochet File[30] that the US was extensively involved and actively "fomented"[30] the 1973 coup. Authors Tim Weiner, in his book, Legacy of Ashes,[31] and Christopher Hitchens, in his book, The Trial of Henry Kissinger [32] similarly argue the case that US covert actions actively destabilized Allende's government and set the stage for the 1973
coup.

>The U.S. provided material support to the military government after the coup, although criticizing it in public. A document released by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in 2000, titled "CIA Activities in Chile", revealed that the CIA actively supported the military junta after the overthrow of Allende, and that it made many of Pinochet's officers into paid contacts of the CIA or U.S. military, even though some were known to be involved in human rights abuses.[33]

>he shot himself in the head with an AK-47 he had been given by Fidel Castro
Fucking kek

>The CIA also maintained contacts in the Chilean DINA intelligence service. DINA led the multinational campaign known as Operation Condor, which amongst other activities carried out assassinations of prominent politicians in various Latin American countries, in Washington, D.C., and in Europe, and kidnapped, tortured and executed activists holding left-wing views, which culminated in the deaths of roughly 60,000 people.[34][35] The United States provided key organizational, financial and technical assistance to the operation.[36][37][38] CIA contact with DINA head Manuel Contreras was established in 1974 soon after the coup, during the Junta period prior to official transfer of Presidential powers to Pinochet; in 1975, the CIA reviewed a warning that keeping Contreras as an asset might threaten human rights in the region. The CIA chose to keep him as an asset, and at one point even paid him. In addition to the CIA's maintaining of assets in DINA beginning soon after the coup, several CIA assets, such as CORU Cuban exile militants Orlando Bosch and Guillermo Novo, collaborated in DINA operations under the Condor Plan

wew
but the CIA sabotage is just a boogieman, isn't that right, goy?

...

>falling for lefty/pol/ bait

these clinical retards don't even know the definition of capitalism

>communists
>innocent
>people

lol

all traitors deserve to be shot

>increase in GDP over the suffering of others in poverty

It's GDP per CAPITA you fucking subhuman mongoloid

...

Right after you provide sources for your claims. Or will you take a helicopter ride instead?

mate, do you even know how GDP per capita is calculated? GDP per capita is not an indication of flourishing population, and in this case, it just meant more wealth for those in the upper class. It is just GDP divided by population

it was an increase in GDP by way of various crony interventions, and that is exactly what I meant to say.

>the CIA

Lmao it's just like muh Russia. You commies never learn. There's literally no proof and there never was. It's just a lie that has been repeated over and over. They did try to make a coup in 1970 but they failed.

cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/chile/

>On 10 September 1973—the day before the coup that ended the Allende Government—a Chilean military officer reported to a CIA officer that a coup was being planned and asked for US Government assistance. He was told that the US Government would not provide any assistance because this was strictly an internal Chilean matter. The Station officer also told him that his request would be forwarded to Washington. CIA learned of the exact date of the coup shortly before it took place. During the attack on the Presidential Palace and its immediate aftermath, the Station’s activities were limited to providing intelligence and situation reports.

> Although CIA did not instigate the coup that ended Allende’s government on 11 September 1973, it was aware of coup-plotting by the military, had ongoing intelligence collection relationships with some plotters, and—because CIA did not discourage the takeover and had sought to instigate a coup in 1970—probably appeared to condone it. There was no way that anyone, including CIA, could have known that Allende would refuse the putchists’ offer of safe passage out of the country and that instead—with La Monedam Palace under bombardment from tanks and airplanes and in flames—would take his own life.

how does your lefty/pol/ meme change anything?

>citing the CIA's website for information on the CIA
nigger that is the most retarded shit i have seen someone do in a long time

>Declarations from KGB General Nikolai Leonov, former Deputy Chief of the First Chief Directorate of the KGB, confirmed that the Soviet Union supported Allende's government economically, politically and militarily.[89] Leonov stated in an interview at the Chilean Center of Public Studies (CEP) that the Soviet economic support included over $100 million in credit, three fishing ships (that distributed 17,000 tons of frozen fish to the population), factories (as help after the 1971 earthquake), 3,100 tractors, 74,000 tons of wheat and more than a million tins of condensed milk.[89]

>In mid-1973 the USSR had approved the delivery of weapons (artillery, tanks) to the Chilean Army. However, when news of an attempt from the Army to depose Allende through a coup d'état reached Soviet officials, the shipment was redirected to another country.

His deep ties with the communists dispels the notion that he wud a good boy bein' 'pressed by el CIA because he wanted to try being nice to people.

He was a marxist playing the Cold War. What did he expect?

>communism kills a gorillion people
>not real communism!

>capitalism kills a few people
>must be real capitalism!

Collectard logic

There's also the fact that his own congress was against his unconstitutional marxist bullshit, in fact they were the ones who called for the military to depose him in the first place.

>On 22 August 1973, the Christian Democrats and the National Party members of the Chamber of Deputies joined together to vote 81 to 47 in favor of a resolution that asked the authorities to "put an immediate end" to "breach[es of] the Constitution…with the goal of redirecting government activity toward the path of law and ensuring the Constitutional order of our Nation, and the essential underpinnings of democratic co-existence among Chileans."

>The resolution declared that Allende's government sought "to conquer absolute power with the obvious purpose of subjecting all citizens to the strictest political and economic control by the State... [with] the goal of establishing... a totalitarian system" and claimed that the government had made "violations of the Constitution... a permanent system of conduct." Essentially, most of the accusations were about disregard by the Socialist government of the separation of powers, and arrogating legislative and judicial prerogatives to the executive branch of government.

>Specifically, the Socialist government of President Allende was accused of:

>Ruling by decree, thwarting the normal legislative system
>Refusing to enforce judicial decisions against its partisans; not carrying out sentences and judicial resolutions that contravened its objectives
>Ignoring the decrees of the independent General Comptroller's Office
>Sundry media offenses; usurping control of the National Television Network and applying economic pressure against those media organizations that are not unconditional supporters of the government
>Allowing its Socialist supporters to assemble with arms, and preventing the same by its right-wing opponents
>Supporting more than 1,500 illegal takeovers of farms
>Illegal repression of the El Teniente miners' strike
>Illegally limiting emigration
>Finally, the resolution condemned the creation and development of government-protected [socialist] armed groups, which were said to be "headed towards a confrontation with the armed forces". President Allende's efforts to re-organize the military and the police forces were characterized as "notorious attempts to use the armed and police forces for partisan ends, destroy their institutional hierarchy, and politically infiltrate their ranks".[97]

Or was the Chilean government also controlled by the CIA, with the only legitimate part being the marxist president who was friends with Fidel Castro?

Compare chile to its commie neighbors at the time
>muh comrades were killed exiled and raped
no one cares you subhuman faggot

>it is just GDP divided per population

which completely BTFOs your "muh 1%" bullshit. If GDP per capita is growing, it means either the population is stagnant or declining in comparison to the growing wealth of the upper class, or the population's living standards are increasing as a whole. The fact that the population of Chile has increased linearly since Pinochet indicates that the latter is closer to the truth. You can not lie your way towards a communist revolution anymore, "comrade"

>it means either the population is stagnant or declining in comparison to the growing wealth of the upper class, or the population's living standards are increasing as a whole.
??????

>muh communism killed three hundred trillion ppl cuz Ronald Reagan told me so

Your source is a fucking reddit post someone made
>reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1m6d5h/wednesday_week_in_history_sept_11_sept_17/cc6ga2j/

welll so in other words - just for point 1 :

So he raised tealth and totally elliminated 55% of poverty ? How is THAT a bad achievement AT ALL ?!!

fucking full of shit leftofascist subhuman scum !

>There's also the fact that his own congress was against his unconstitutional marxist bullshit, in fact they were the ones who called for the military to depose him in the first place.
yes, it is both possible for the CIA to sabotage him while his own government opposed him as well. neat, isn't it? there's a difference in clandestine activities and a legislative vote

...

Note that none of the grievances listed by the chamber were related to the economic collapse, which according to yourself was orchestrated by the CIA (though I'm still fuzzy on how they orchestrated the mass inflation). They're all related to unconstitutional seizure of property and suppression of political opponents.

>military dictatorship
>capitalism

Something commies never understand is that capitalism isn't political, it's economic. Yet they always blame the actions of governments on capitalism.

Proof? AFAIK pinochet threw only suspected terrorists out of helicopters. Granted some innocents were in the mix and thats innexcusable but had he made policy to throw everyone who disagreed with him on to the ocean his number pf victims would have been much higher than 3000

>some niggers dying in Mozambique due to lack of water
>hurr durr must be Capitalism

>Commie govt. seizure of food in Ukraine and forced expulsion of farmers
>hurr durr it's da weather

>civvies die due to war
>hurr durr it's capitalism

Retarded chart t b h.

for genocide of the chinks let see them fucking digits

>khmer rouge listed as "muh seeuh" despite the Chinese support being orders of magnitude larger than American
>bad weather is the same as Mao forcing people to stop farming and kill all the sparrows and forge metal
wew lad