Single payer

>Single payer

Why don't liberals just call it what it is? They want state controlled healthcare. They want socialism.

They don't even want just state controlled healthcare, they want FEDERAL state controlled healthcare. They've had decades upon decades to set up public healthcare in the states that vote for them, yet they never do.

I've lived under federal, socialist healthcare. It was pretty cool. Our military is exactly that.

There's literally nothing wrong with single payer healthcare
> Muh socialism

I want single-payer too. These are cuck GOP talking points and you should probably go choke on beaner cock Ryan intern.

>I want the freedom to have a for-profit corporation tell me I'm not worth keeping alive even though I've paid into their insurance and then be legally unable to do anything because of fine print in the 250 pages of legal documents they had me sign my rights away in
>This is the superior way to live my life because it is Freedom unlike having my healthcare provided through the Government via my taxes with them having the power to negotiate cheaper costs and being answerable to the public at large instead of to a board of shareholders who only look at this quarter's profit margins

Well they're in luck. The GOP/state is now going to control thier healthcare.
That's government healthcare.

why aren't the kikes content with controlling 95% of everything? why must they have 100% control?

Found the statists. Literally and unironically kill yourselves.

OY VEY GOYIM DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE 5% MILLION WHAT ARE YOU A HITLER

We got four trillion to fight wars for Israel then who gives a fuck. Do it. If we could close off borders I'm for it. Although I'm sure it was somewhat planned to get us to this point, American healthcare costs are a joke and we're not getting real reform until after collapse so bring it on.

The year is 2022, President Al Gore wins a narrow victory over incumbent Trump. Trump retires gracefully to Mar A Lago to play golf in peace. CNN shutters its doors for the last time after its caught faking the suicide of Eddie Veder. Gore upholds promise not to pardon Hillary Clinton and JP, restores internet Nuetrality and ammends the constitution to protect the interney ad a human right. The rise of classical liberals ensures far left progressives never come into power again as college admission requires 4.0 gpa to even be considered for scholarship or state sponsorship. DMC finally comes through on single payer plan as americans who turn 18 can choose to go on medicaid or choose to enter the private market with obamacare, far righters shit themselves at the catch 22 but its ok because socialized medicine covers their colon transplant surgery.

keep dreaming

what you call it is largely irrelevant.

>universal healthcare = socialism
holy fuck you are stupid

>choose to go on medicaid or choose to enter the private market with obamacare
Is this bait?

>single payer
What is the mess known as TriCare for $800, Alex?

>and being answerable to the public at large

Lol.

Never had a problem with healthcare here. Although since the USA is much larger it wouldn't work as efficiently there. I'd assume people see it working decently well here in leafland and assume it would apply to the massive United States.

A fucking leaf.

There is one good thing about single payer and that is that when you have an entire country's populace under 1 "insurance" system, their bargaining power for the price of drugs is huge. That's why we pay 3-5x as much for the same medications in other countries, because they have single payer systems and negotiate deals with the drug companies. Private insurers don't do that. Thanks to big pharma lobbying, medicaid and medicare don't negotiate either, only the VA and Tricare negotiate.

Tricare was the best healthcare I ever had. nothing ever got declined and billed back to me, and they covered dental and eye care. Blue Cross blue shield doesn't get your ass in a dentists chair and even my job doesn't offer dental, I'd have to pay for that out of pocket.

There is a reason why the drugs are priced so high while the variable cost of making one is so low. It's because the fixed cost or cost of research and development are so high. If drug prices are forced to stay below what producers want, then there is no incentive to develop new drugs. Much of the profits made by pharmaceutical goes to research and development so new and better drugs can be created.

>Ninety five percent of the new drugs coming on the market are developed for sale in the United States. They are paid for by American consumers, while other countries, such as Canada, Germany and France, free ride at our expense.

>Tricare
>bad

what are you talking about? Anything you needed done got fucking taken care of, your teeth, your eyes, private insurance neglect those most the time, your medications were free no copay, you had regular preventative care physicals and labs, sick call any morning you needed it, and you never saw a bill.

This, the costs necessary for R&D are extremely high
The medical market is extremely perilous to invest in and so only someone who can diversify and win big can be a contributor

If you try to federalize drug R&D you take on a lot of risk that the government isn't well-equipped to mitigate

when Humira and Enbrel generate $5 billion dollars a year in PROFIT I can't feel sorry for the poor pharmeceutical companies at all, sorry, you're overpricing your shit and you fucking know it

I would have nothing against single payer if we did not have so many illegals and lazy niggers taking advantage.

It's also good when they are indemnified from damage.

>It was pretty cool
Yeah, because you didn't have to pay for it. You want the federal government to pay for the medical costs of every American? OK, who's going to pay for it? I'm listening.

I would rather pay a useless middleman billions of dollars, call it "insurance" so he can buy yachts.

THIS IS AMERICA!

Here's the other genius idea with our healthcare system: We get our insurance through out place of work.

What is the first fucking thing you CAN'T do when you are sick? You can't work.

And don't give me your "I had the flu and kept working, huur" bullshit. I mean you break both your arms in a car accident that wasn't your fault, or you get fucking cancer.

Health insurance is paying a middleman for no fucking reason. It's just another game in the big Jewish casino.

could single payer for poor and middle class who want it, and private for whoever doesnt want it, work?

Or is the whole controversy, lots of >50 percentile taxes are needed to pay healthcare for those who would want to and opt into single payer?

If we all pay half of what we do now, we could have the best healthcare system in the world.

Right now, most of our money goes to Jewish cocaine dungeons with gold leafed walls.

>i have no arguments to counter this so instead i'll tell them to kill themselves like the child i am while spouting buzzwords, that'll get em

Single payer per state is the way to go.

>could single payer for poor and middle class who want it, and private for whoever doesnt want it, work?
Yes. All they have to do is delete "over 65" from the Medicare statute.

no because the unhealthy poor fucks will swarm the single payer and ruin it

>They want socialism.
That's fucking retarded. Socialism is when the state owns the entire economy. Healthcare should be a part of the commons because it is ethical and moral to do so. It also costs less.

Make a new separate special group for over 65. The healthcare industry itself can take care of over 65 year olds, they can charge them a discounted price because they will be such a guaranteed steady customer, andor every single tax dollar from 'the healthcare industry' should go into a fund for +65.

The tax payers
This would only work for wealthy states. Mississippi and others like it would be fucked and worse than before

Healthcare is not profitable unless people are chronically sick.
Doctors and medical staff should be salaried state employees.
The medical branch of the government should recruit new doctors and offer to pay for degrees.

I've been to so many scam clinics and chains of scam hospitals that I'm thoroughly convinced that the conflict of interest between profit and service in healthcare has long been lost to the patient's disadvantage. Providers truly do not care about their patients beyond what they can pay.

Private health insurers would never agree to that because they'd lose their ass. If we allowed people to buy into Medicare, it would help to save the program.

>Doctors and medical staff should be salaried state employees.
They can be private, but there should be Medicare for All.

>The medical branch of the government should recruit new doctors and offer to pay for degrees.
That would be nice, especially since doctors start out with a lot of debt.

If we didn't have tax leeches (niggers and spics) we could probably do single payer. Of course, if we didn't have niggers and spics, non-state healthcare would also work far better than it does now.

Health care is not a solvable problem until we get rid of spics and niggers, it's just a fact. Anything we do is going to suck with them around.

well there can be limits, or certain things,
Like there are cases when a person may have a $100,000 or more hospital bill, and cases with a person having $1,000, maybe some $1,000,000, what should be done with these people?

The French usually split it 80/20 unless it's a serious disease like cancer. They get supplements from work to pay for the other 20%.

I guess its too late, but maybe things could have been different if private health insurance never started to begin with, as of now there is so much infrastructure and ownership involved, but would it have been a lot easier if from the start there was only 1 public health insurance agency? (it could even have/have had tiers of quality depending on tax bracket)

You can blame the conservative Democrats and Republicans for that. If the New Deal Coalition was more liberal, we would have had national health insurance in the late 1940s.

and then theres the problem that comes up, which may be a problem now too: a government with a pool of money: Hey health care people, how much do we owe you for that job? (the government pays for all healthcare at this point, so there is no free market prices to look at?) $1,000,000

The healthcare people have no leverage in the matter. They'd have to take what the government sets for them.

and think of how much private health insurance money would not have been made. Like a fools gold rush that potentially could have not happened.

Though there would still be all those insurance employees maybe... but just a lot less maybe, and instead of private ceos getting mil pay checks, we the people would pay the head manager less

thats where some controversy comes in with doctors making a union and going on strike or threatening to move to canada, or having their own private practice, and then what, the government kicks down their door? well yeah, they just have contract negotiations

>Though there would still be all those insurance employees maybe... but just a lot less maybe, and instead of private ceos getting mil pay checks, we the people would pay the head manager less
There would still be a few to provide supplemental insurance unless we made it exceedingly generous.

>thats where some controversy comes in with doctors making a union and going on strike or threatening to move to canada, or having their own private practice
They could do that. Private practices are not all that common in Europe, but they are there.

If people took better care of their bodies we wouldn't even need such a bloated healthcare industry.

>muh socialism
it was more persuasive when you fags could pretend you had some alternative

Face it, free-market healthcare has failed everywhere it's been tried.

>The tax payers
how?
honest question. i want this to work

>SOCIALYISM!!!111
>drives on roads
>has a military
>has social security

Liberals always lie. They know people don't want what they are selling. So they have to trick people.

Go home Putin, your're drunk.

Damn, you're stupid, it's the vaccines. Everyone knows it's the damned government mandated vaccines!

>How is state controlled healthcare socialism?
>Do you even know the definition of socialism?
>Or are you just repeating cold war propaganda republicans pushed to make anything beneficial for the lower classes as socialist?

Like the kikes have down by the fiat banks and the $300 saltwater bag car insurance land called a "hospital"

Isn't medicare socialism already?

It was ayn rand's favorite. She even put it on her sketti

For the same reason all other tax funded programs work you fucking mong

>via my taxes
ELLE

>the state
>negotiating cheaper costs
OH

>answerable to the public at large
ELLE

>not understanding that socialism is literally state control of a particular service
>water systems are socialized
>road systems are socialized
>police/ems/firefighters are socialized

single payer is literally socialism

>all this support for single payer on Sup Forums

Seriously, did we all just forget the first rule for radicals?

>socialism
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Nope not socialism since the community as a whole do not control it.

single payer isn't socialism when there is no product
>seize the means of production
we're talking fucking healthcare here, not retard widgets like you read about in skuul
insurance: NOT NEEDED AT ALL
why is insurance even part of this discussion?
for-profit greedy fucks with a slimy hand on your throat is what you are arguing for
pharma doesn't need to be run for profit at all
neither does any part of the healthcare sector

there should be no profit-seeking in healthcare at any level, at any step in providing healthcare or meds or beds
>rubs hands over gouging sick and dying children and old ppl
just FUCKING DIE YOU SICK FUCK

Half these retards are on Medicaid.

nice

Release cancer cure? Now why would I do that when I make so much money off treatments?
Cure for diabetes. Nope keep buying my blood sugar pills with extra estrogen goys.

>universal healthcare is socialism
Lmao. It's barely even a leftist policy at this point. It's simply how healthcare is done in the world, the most tested and successful healthcare system developed to date. Keep sucking Paul Ryan's cock while he laughs at your pleb ass for buying into the AHCA.

>Release cancer cure? Now why would I do that when I make so much money off treatments?
Doctors manufacture vaccines cheaply all the time. Just look at the worldwide effort to eradicate polio.

And plus, why would the pharma companies worry about $1 shots when they could sell boner pills for more than that?

Most people want "Medicare for all." AHCA is one of the least popular pieces of major legislation in modern history.

My idea is that a public option for routine, preventative care/General Practicioners should exist, with no out of pocket expense for GP visits labs, diagnostic imaging, or medications. Specialty care and surgery would still need to be done through private insurance, but would be for most people much more affordable since most people would only need insurance at that point for emergencies/catastrophic illness requiring hospitalization or injuries requiring surgery.

But your main preventative care, minor infections, and chronic illness management and medications would be taken care of, you'd have the bargaining power to lower the price of drugs substantially which would overall lower the cost of healthcare by a fuckload.

Single payer systems work well for general care and drugs, but what they fail at is surgery and specialist care. But if people are getting regular checkups and labs you can nail a lot of chronic conditions early before they become expensive. Hey, someone's prediabetic, time to get serious on them about their diet and exercise before they need expensive drugs to manage type 2 diabetes and dialysis.

Or worse you develop a chronic debilitating illness or cancer and you have to leave your job and lose your insurance, now you have a preexisting condition and if Obamacare is ever repealed you'll never get coverage again.

...

I have very nice private insurance that I pay for. I needed a hernia surgery last summer. I know someone who is poor, welfare mom, she also needed a hernia surgery not too long after I did. I went to a private hospital covered by my insurance and got a minimally-invasive outpatient surgery to take care of it. She had to go to a public hospital and they did it the old, invasive way. I know that I was offered better care because I have private insurance. I don't want to give that up and I'm happy to pay for it.

Avarice before all else, even the fate of nations or the progress of us as a species.

I don't know how much more (((they))) can defile with their grubby hands before it's enough.

Dude Tricare is literal dog shit garbage. The only good thing is when you can get referred out to a private doctor and not have to pay for it. Otherwise it's like the DMV taking care of you.

>>drives on roads
all depend relatively equally on the existence of roads
>>has a military
all depend equally on the existence of military
>>has social security
all relatively get out what they pay in?

>and medications would be taken care of, you'd have the bargaining power to lower the price of drugs substantially which would overall lower the cost of healthcare by a fuckload.
this is what I guess people argue over. What percentage of the population regular requires how many drugs that cost in what price range (now and then, your not gonna lower pill costs infinitely, or as much as you think). What percentage of the population will require how much medicine for what percentage of time the next 30 years?

People say (a group of relatively healthy people, that dont require a lot of medicine/pills/regularly/at all): we dont want our tax money, what would be a huge chunk, paying for everyones medicine, when it could go some place better, or ideally, stay in our pockets.

>this has been a message brought to you by ________

like with the roads and the military?

they will keep lying

does it make a difference? We know they are full communist. It is enough that we know.

>Democrats are still advocating single-payer after the UK's NHS Charlie Gard fiasco.

Welcome Republican Congress Super Majority.

>Why don't liberals just call it what it is?
If they did give accurate titles to the things they supported, no one would support it. "Planning out your parenthood" has a better ring to it than "murdering children".

Why not pay for it from tax revenue? A slightly higher tax rate would be better for the economy than burdening employers with the cost.

WHY EVEN GO THROUGH INSURANCE. WHY NOT DIRECTLY PAY THE DOCTOR.

Jesus Christ, the level of misunderstanding of economics in this thread is making me lose faith in humanity. These kind of people just walk among us day to day? This is scary.

?

all the socialists who think making a system more government-monopolized and communistic would make it work better than before. all these theories they pull out of their ass without even knowing the basic economics such as supply and demand.

>I think the best for health-care to work is X, which is not full socialism but only partly so!
>okay, what are you basing that conclusion on? do you have any evidence or examples to draw from? any theory to back it up?
>...excuse me?

because insurance is a pool of money a group of people regularly toss into to continuously fill the pool incase one of them is an asshole and needs to take from the pool to pay an amount that would be great than the amount they put into the pool over that time.

This, healthcare is a service, you have to pay for that service. It was fine until our government allowed a flood of illegals into the country.
>illegals uninsured
>get sick
>skip out on bill
>price of service increase to make up for skipped bills
>illegals dont care because not paying anyway
>healthcare goes up more
>insurance premiums skyrocket to cover high costs
>hospitals close driving up prices even more
>cycle goes on
>"we need socialized healthcare insurance is too expensive"
Totally ignores the actual problem

>because insurance is a pool of money a group of people regularly toss into to continuously fill the pool incase one of them is an asshole and needs to take from the pool to pay an amount that would be great than the amount they put into the pool over that time.

Over time regardless, an amount of that money most be taken to pay the insurance workers, salesman, and pay for operating costs of their building, computers etc.

Perhaps insurance cost could be cheaper, that pool would stay consistently higher solely considering in relation to potentially not having to take out as much money to cover those costs. Paying for all the infrastructure and electricity of separate buildings and workers, when maybe all the info can be kept on one server or something.

Imagine handing over your very life and death to the absolute niggers that run governments like Chicago, etc. We have to get in front of this meme while we can.

>Imagine handing over your very life and death
How? instead of paying insurance to an insurance company, the same taxes you pay not, will go to your health insurance. Instead of your health insurance company handing that money to the doctor when you need it, the government will.

>not
*now